This course is a bit of a hidden gem. It is a large park that seems to be mostly used by disc golfers. Every time I have been out there, I have mostly had the course to myself, which feels rare these days. The course itself is well taken care of. There is a good mix of long and short holes. There is also a good variety of shot types. This course does favor the bigger arms. The tees are nice and the park has Innova Disc catcher baskets, though they could stand to be updated.

Improvements are being made to this beautiful course.
- They just installed concrete pads in the last few weeks.
- Good combination of wooded and open, hilly and flat, straight and dogleg, narrow and wide open holes.
- Recently mowed much of the tall grass. (not sure if this will continue in the future.)
- Good signs (relatively new) make it easy to follow.
- The low/marshy area on hole 10 has been filled in.
- Never many people here.

- Still some tall grass and marsh where you can lose a disc.
- It's always windy--especially on the wide open holes.

I've just been playing for 5 months and don't have much to compare it to, but I do really enjoy playing this course. There is a lot of variety at the different holes. I love playing in the open prairie and amongst the massive Burr Oaks.

- full 18 holes
- combination of open and more technical shots
- seemed well mowed and somewhat maintained
- nothing to give this course a "wow" factor over any other courses
- bugs were eating me alive

- tee signs are largely destroyed at this point and haven't been fixed
- tee posts can be confusing and many are leaning
- no tees, essentially
- post often gives little indication which way you are supposed to throw
- navigation is extremely confusing
- usually pretty windy (depending on how you look at it, maybe not a con)

I've tried to give this course a chance, but after playing it twice, and struggling to care enough to complete it both times, I won't be back.

The amount of land here has the potential to be something better, but the course just isn't designed or set up all that well. While it is clear someone is mowing and doing general maintenance of the land, this isn't even always a good thing - as other reviewers have commented, in some areas so much brush was cleared as to reduce the difficulty of the course.

Both times I have been here, I found the navigation extremely confusing. At least one basket was either missing entirely or I just never found it. At some point you just get sick of this - there are tons of courses around the Chicago suburbs that are beautifully laid out and maintained.

The bugs are seriously thick here too - this is a fact of life playing disc golf I suppose, they just seemed awful here.

Some of the initial open holes, coupled with the poor/nonexistent tee signs, made it confusing in terms of where you were throwing to, since there was no clear direction of which way to throw and multiple baskets were visible.

Like I said, there's enough land here this space could probably be better, but it just falls short in so many ways. I think more than anything the navigation frustrations made it not worth it for me.

There are courses nearby that are much better, such as Knoch Knolls in Naperville, Katherine Legge in Hinsdale, Madison Meadows in Lombard, or several courses in the Lockport/Joliet area (Highland Park, The Canyons, etc.) if you're willing to go further out. I would skip this one.

Challenging on a few holes dude to narrow fairways
wooded on portions of the course

Where are the teepads?
Where are the signs so I know where the next hole is?
A beginner disc golfer will have a decent shot at losing a disc.

I'm not sure why they spent so much money on turning this into a disc golf course and with decent baskets, but not add any type of tees. If people don't play this course I can see how new people will have no clue where the hole starts.

The course sits on the site that once was Kress's farm. The large isolated park doesn't get a lot of visitors. There is a nice playground, thanks to the Chicago Bears. That's Chcago's hockey team, right? Beside that, disc golf has the park to itself.

There are no tee pads just patches of worn grass. I doubt this courses will ever garner enough play that the grass will become rutted and puddled. There is a course map at the beginning. By all mean, take a picture. There are tee sign posts but many are unreadable. The baskets are Discatchers with the yellow ring and a small number.

The wind always seems to be blowing here.

The course plays long enough. The navigation gets real tricky about # 13. Even my local guide, Bob, had to walk ahead and find baskets in this stretch.

The biggest problem here is the high praise grass that borders so many holes. It's 3 to 5 feet tall and thick. Staying on the narrow 20 foot wide fairways is so difficult and the longer thrower you are, the more trouble you'll have recognizing just where your drive left the fairway. Even with advanced spotters, any disc leaving the fairway becomes an ordeal.

Easily, my favorite hole was # 6. It's a downhill blast, just over 300', and the basket is tucked into it's own little fairway at the bottom of the hill. It's a very pretty hole.

The course does have a nice mix of holes. Unfortunately, most of them have the tall grass bordering them.

Wind blowing everyday.

Tall grass makes hunting for discs off the fairway not a fun experience.

Navigation would be extremely difficult without a local.

Many signs are faded, broke or missing.

No tee pads.

Isolated location will enable maurading gangs of teens to enjoy easy pickings for vandalism.

High chance of losing a disc here.

I was getting ready to tackle this course alone when local player, Bob, showed up and proceeded to not only guide me through the course but to act as spotter. And he observed a flaw in my motion that I was able to correct the following day which has made my game much, more enjoyable. Or less painful than usual.

Kress Creek Farm DGC will not rank high on my Illinois trip courses. It's not terrible but the prairie grass will ruin many player's day as they spend too much time hunting for discs or sometimes never finding them.

Solitude! Big throws required over scenic rolling Oak Savanna. Always windy. This course plays tough!

Bug Spray is a must. Spotter is required on about 4 drives, so bring a reliable partner.

Good Cart Course!

- Reasonable mix of open and wooded holes
- Nice, isolated plot of land
- Good distance, let's you open up your arm
- *Update* Multiple baskets on many holes
- *Update* Well maintained

- Tall grass as rough means lost discs or a long time spent looking for them.
- Very few holes with any actual line shaping
- No concrete teepads *Update* New Concrete Tees
- Almost all the signage on posts is completely destroyed or unreadable *Update* Tees could use an update but are serviceable

I last played this course with 3 other people and we are by no means beginners. However, even employing spotters, we lost track of several discs into the long grass being used to shape fairways. This does not make for a fun round of disc golf. we probably spent half an hour wading through the rough looking for our plastic, lost one disc, and easily could have lost more.

The strong winds during most of the round didn't help in our attempt to keep discs out of the long grass, but it has been windy every time I have gone here, and that is likely a very common scenario with such open holes.

There are a handful of interesting holes once you get out of the open fields, but they are few and far between, and in my opinion not worth suffering the mostly boring open holes, many of which include the chance of losing discs.

The grass tee pads don't help matters providing a much less than ideal run-up as you are trying to drive.

I could understand frequenting this course if it was the only course near you, but for most people I imagine there are better options (Madison Meadows, Katherine Legge, Eagle Ridge, Wheeler Park, Central Park or even Highland Park for example)

Having recently moved, this is the closest park to me, but I am not sure I will return. Playing this course was only slightly better than going to the large field just to the north, and working on my drive where I do not have to spend 10min wading through tall scratchy grass filled with bugs. I would much rather spend an additional 10-15min in the car to play an enjoyable round of golf.

**** UPDATE 11/2020 ****
I recently played this course for the first time in 6 years after a couple conversations with local players advising me to give it a second look. There have been a handful of improvements since I last played over half a decade ago: new tee signs with hole number and distance(s), new concrete tee pads (tho only for the short positions, long positions are listed on many tee signs), more regular maintenance/mowing. These improvements address many of the "quality of life" issues I previously had with the course.

The golf is still mediocre, without much line shaping required, but I enjoyed my round much more than previously. The time of year likely also affected my perception, as there were no bugs and much less undergrowth during my mid-November round, but the improvements are still enough for me to bump up my rating half disc. I will be playing this course more regularly, and hope that the level of maintenance is maintained going forward. There were quite a few people out enjoying the course on a late Saturday morning, great to see the improvements have been well received, I certainly appreciate them.

****Update 7/2023 ****
Leaving the entirety of my old review for posterity, but it could be entirely re-done at this point. I don't think I have had my perception of a course change so much, and it is entirely due to all of the work put in by the local clubs. Since my last review, permanent alternate pin positions have gone in on many holes along with new baskets. The course has been cleaned up a lot with new landscaping and benches on many holes. Hard to see baskets have had big flags added to the top to aid visibility. There is a sneaky amount of challenge present here. The tall grass can still be a pain, but in general is maintained better and really only a big threat on four to six fairways. This course went from one I never wanted to play, to somewhere I get to frequently. Well done to all involved in the fantastic face lift and course improvements.

The course is located on a large lot of land that contains the course and a walking path, so the course is not very crowded at all.
You can use just about every disc in your bag as the distance ranges from 180ft-600ft. There is a good variety in the way the holes are set up: there are several that are fairly open, some that are fairly narrow guarded by trees, and several where prairie land, or marsh, come into play.

The tees are grass and not always clearly marked, I could not find all of the blue tees, and although I did not play from them, I only saw 2 or 3 of the red tees.

The prairie grass is extremely thick and if you throw a disc in it, you will be searching for a long time. There are several patches of prairie grass and it comes into play on half of the holes.

Very unique course... The park is huge and seems to be very isolated, which is a big plus because you don't really have to worry about over-congestion. The course design here uses the elevation on site and had several holes that were amazing... hole 6 comes to mind: a 300ish foot downhill shot with the green tightly guarded by a tunnel of trees. I threw like four discs on that hole because it was so much fun.

The variety was great. Overall the park is fairly open, but the trees are used pretty well here.

I was mentally writing my review praising the epic-ness of this course and was about ready to proclaim it as one of the true destination courses in the Chicago suburbs... then I got to hole 13. The stretch between holes 13 and 18 were some of the most miserable holes of disc golf that I'd ever played. Here are the issues that I had just with those six holes:

*Navigation... horrible. signs are not kept up, so the pieces of paper that have diagrams/distances were mostly gone. I skipped hole 14 because I had no idea where the basket was when I got to the tee.

*The GRASS! It's not too bad for most of the course but on this stretch it is ridiculous. First of all, why on EARTH is there no mowed grass around hole 13? The basket sits amidst a ton a tall grass like someone forgot about it. Holes 16-17 have very thick roughs and my legs are bleeding in multiple places because of it. It also robbed me of two discs

My home course is notorious for its horrible prairie grass roughs, but I felt like the grass on these holes was far less bearable and more painful to walk through

Even without this rough stretch of holes, I probably wouldn't have given this one higher than a 3.5...

*No teepads! Geez louise this would drastically improve the course.
*Overall, navigation was a little rough throughout the whole round. Tee signs were beat up/unreadable for the most part
*A few holes were just too wide open to be much fun
*I was by myself and was a little creeped out by the setting... heard some weird noises but didn't really see anyone around. I thought that something/someone was going to come out of the woods or out of the farm and chase me. Next time I'm bringing a friend to share my cowardice with.

SO CLOSE to being a suburban course worth going out of your way for. Teepads would greatly improve the course as would functional tee-signs.


Update 1/11/2021 - This course now has tee pads!!! Bumping up my rating from 3.1 to 3.5. Nice work!

This is a very open course with minor rolling hills. Slight elevation comes into play. Scattered trees are all over the park and some tall grass in areas. Wind rips across this park.

Navigation is pretty easy.

Newer Innova Discatcher baskets.

Wood poles with the hole # on them.

You get a chance to throw some distance drivers.

Hole #7 is a nice tunnel hole.

Without proper tees and tee signs having multiple tees is not ideal.

The basket of hole #15 is right in line of the tunnel shot #7. It takes away from the hole.

There is no easy crossing on hole #10. There was ankle deep water that you had to walk thru.

There is some really nice land where holes 13, 14, & 15 are. I felt that area was underutilized.

With the amount of large open l thought there could have been another par 4 or a possible par 5. An example is #5. There is a long walk over to 5. It could have been a 2 shot hole.

It's been a wet spring. We played the course the day after it rained. The natural tee pads are terrible.

We caught a bad time but the course had not been mowed in a few weeks. The grass was pretty tall.

The tee posts had some laminated tee signs. Most had been weathered and some were missing.

With the installation of solid tee pads I'd bump this up to a rating of 3.

-Lots of walking
-Mild elevation change that is not present at nearby courses
-Huge old oak trees that come into play in the earlier and later holes
-Plenty of holes where you can really arm some plastic
-Course has an odd secluded feel that is unique to the area
-While there are alot of wide open holes there are some holes that require either nice straight shots or hyzers or anhyzers or flicks.

-Lack of teepads... They did a good job getting this course up and running but they need to compliment their work by adding some pads. I emailed the director of parks and rec last spring about pads and he said they would have some in by early summer.. And it is now fall.
-The grass patch that exists between 16 and 17. That thing swallows discs and never spits em out. If your wearing shorts, forget it. Your legs will be cut to pieces by the razor grass.
-Some holes where distance is quite literally the only obstacle between you and the basket.

This is my home course, and it's responsible for getting me hooked on disc golf, So naturally I am partial to this course.

This course needs solid pads, Badly. I like playing here but it has come down to the point where I will go play other courses in the area simply because they have solid pads. The dirt pads here have been rutted out for as long as I can remember and when you have a run-up that you plan around starting and finishing points on a pad, that really messes with you.

-good location on an old farm
-there are never crowds here even when the parking lot is full you rarely get stuck behind people
-hole 1 is an open field shot with a small hill that is just big enough so you cannot really see the basket from the tee off the only obstacle is a small patch of brush around an old tree about 15 feet to the right of the basket
-holes 2-3 are both fun holes that are underneath some massive oak trees but as long as you keep your shots low they don't effect your shots much
-hole six is surprisingly fun for an open shot. it shoots down into a valley and the only brush on the this hole are two 15 foot tall bushes on ether side of the basket.
-hole 7 is decently fun just a basic tunnel shot not very long and easy if you can throw a disc straight
-9,10,and 11 are all decent holes all three of them are short with some cover around them that makes you throw a decent line
-hole 13 if my favorite hole on the course it can be really hard to find if you have not played the course before being behind some tall bushes and some time after the course was put in a massive oak tree fell in front of it making it imposable to throw straight at but the left side is open and the right side has a small hole in the brush that can be thrown into if you have an accurate arm
-hole 14-15 are both very good holes for this course being similar to 2,3 also being under huge oak trees. the basket for 14 is also hard to see being behind some trees and thick brush but if you angel your shot ether way you can make it near the basket. 15 is still under the trees with the basket out in the open and there are some huge trees that make it hard to get a good line.

-just dirt pads that can be kinda rough
-can get very windy
-hole 5 is just an open field shot that does not even have much distance
-holes 8,12 are both just big bomber holes with a narrow fairway and prairie on both sides and with a strong wind can make for very long holes. but if you like longer holes you might like these two
-holes 16,17 eat discs. there is a marsh(not so much this year with the dry weather) with tall grass that i am constantly seeing people lose discs in and have spent many hours myself looking for shots that i threw poorly or that the wind took.
-18 is nothing special. it is just an open field up shot throwing up the hill that you threw down on hole 6.

-i play this course at least 2 times a week and although i am getting use to it i still find it to be decently challenging
-one of my good friends threw a disc into the woods off of 10 he told us to keep playing we are not sure if he found his disc but the police found his body three days later

Located on an old farm. Unique location from other courses.

Nice length, but mostly open.

Some moderately wooded holes and longer open holes.

Good signs and baskets.

Has some narrow fairways and long grass to punish you for errant drives.

Challenging course due to its windiness and length, but still fun to play.

Good mix of RHBH, RHFH, and straight shots.

Big marsh with tall grass and weeds in the middle of the course that border a few holes.

Lost my disc in the marsh on hole 16 and found that a red-winged blackbird was hovering 5 feet above me. It then proceeded to keep dive bombing my dad and I from the trees between the basket for 16 and tee off for 17. Most scared I've been from a bird in my life. We ended up not playing these two holes as I had to sprint around the bend to pick up my dad's disc by the basket while trying to out run a dive bombing bird on my ass. Made it out safely but many other red winged black birds were spotted around the whole course. If you don't know, they are extremely aggressive and territorial so if you see one be prepared to defend yourself. They like to make nests in the marshy stuff on the ground because they are stupid and will defend that nest to the end. they are also a protected species so you can't hurt them. Also saw a kildeer bird on hole 5 and if you go near them, they act like they have a bum wing and flop around leading you away from the nest. When a predator goes for them they just fly away so they don't get the nest or the parent bird.

Anyways, weaker arms may not like this course. It was a fun course despite the many birds, but may not be beginner friendly, especially if there's a lot of wind.

No tee pads, hopefully they will add them.

This course was a fun time and I will be returning to play at some point. I enjoyed the setting of the course and the different challenges it provides and would recommend that people try it out at least once even without tee pads.

Finally, a course in the area where you can really air it out. The course plays through some rolling hills and light to moderate woods and offeres a good mix of distances. The white tees are marked well with the post and the next tee arrows make navigation fairly easy. Although there are several wide open huge distance holes there are enough shorter wooded holes to give the accurate weaker arms a fighting chance.

Each hole has some sort of challenge. Whether is it trees elevation or shear distance the design makes you work for your score. I think this course is a good balance to the other new course in Geneva. Although it is not as manicured it offers a greater challenge in a more rugged setting. Having played both in the same day, I definitnely worked harder to save par at this course.

Tee pads would be nice. . . I don't really care when the holes are short, but when you have these long open bombs, solid tee pads are a must.

The rough can be thick and full of ticks, I found 2 on my leg during my round, lyme disease is no fun. So be warned

This course is a great addition to the area that really needed an 18 holer with some good distance. As I said before it really is the ying to the yang of Geneva. When you want to throw shorter accurate throws on the freshly mowed grass go to Geneva. And when you want to take a hike through the tall grass and throw as far as you possibly can this is your place. With the addition of tee pads this will be an excellent course. The longer holes place more importance on making birdie when you get to the short ones.

Elevation, distance, variety of hole types, secluded setting, nice baskets, easy to follow holes, alternate tees

A few too many wide open bomber holes, some excessively rough rough, lack of concrete tees, poorly groomed alternate tees

All in all Kress Creek is an above average course. It utilizes a huge piece of land quite well to make a nice variety of holes and shot types. It is very spread out and long, so don't expect to play any speed rounds. A couple of improvements could really bring this place up to the next level. First, lay down some concrete tees. With it being so dry now it is not a big deal, but when it rains it is a mess. Also, a few trees or bushes planted on the bomber holes would really decrease the monotony.
Update 12/8/2012: Course is technically closed for construction on walking trail that winds through the plot of land. A few of the teepads have been negatively affected by this construction. Most of the long tees are completely covered by rough. Disappointing work done by the PD, but they claim it is still a work in progress.
Update 5/27/2014: No updates to design since new path was installed. Tees are rutted out and passable on dry days. Tee signs are mostly worn away. Long tees are not groomed. Rough is rough.
A lot of wasted potential here, the elevation is great, especially for the area. Concrete tee installation should be priority number one. If some trees were planted along the left side of 1's fairway (and the left side of 4's) it would greatly increase the quality of those two holes. Hole 5 also could use some some trees. Having to battle just the elevation and wind makes for a pretty bland hole.
This could easily be a 4 star course with those changes plus some more housekeeping.

Rolling terrain. Red, white, and blue tees offer varying lengths and lines to the baskets. The different tees are marked. The wooded holes (#2, 3, 7, 14, 15) were the most enjoyable for me. These holes had a good length from the white tee and the right amount of trees posing an obstacle. There are posts pointing the way from one hole to the next. Colored tape wrapped around the basket points the way to the next tee. Navigation is pretty straightforward.

Several holes are wide open (#5, 8, 12, 17, 18); just throw as hard as you can. The terrain kept these holes from being totally boring, but there wasn't much to look at or throw around. I'd like to see some bushes planted. I threw about 6ft into some rough on the right side of #10. As I searched the tall grass, I found several ticks clinging to my pants. The red and blue tees would be easier to find if there was a stake or something sticking up. The markers sit below the grass and some were covered by dirt. The tee signs do give you a relative idea of where the alternate tees are, though.

Try your best to avoid throwing into the tall grass so you don't have to deal with the ticks. The white tees are easiest to find because they are right next to the tee signs. I'd like to see the fallen tree at #13 removed. The grass here grows in clumps, so my discs didn't get much skip after hitting the ground. I'd bump my rating up half a point if there was more to the long holes than just elevation changes.

- Elevation - no course in the area has the amount of elevation that Kress Creek has. Up hill and down hill throws are visually deceiving.

- As of 6/12 - well groomed fairways. (8-12 now have mowed fairways. Grass will come in nicely over the next year or so).

- Length - play the whites and you will travel a great distance. There are only a few holes under 300 ft and many over 400ft. If you play the blues, some holes exceed 600ft. Nice to see a course keep up with the evolution of the game. (technology and players have increased the length of the game over the past 20 years, if you have an arm, this course is for you)

- Great Views - this is a quiet place. Although there are two private residences near the parking lot, non disc golfers are rarely seen. On hole 5 look west and see Fermi Lab (atomic research center). Hole 13 is by far my favorite. Mother nature gave a great gift by knocking down a tree right next to the basket. You have to climb it! Be a good neighbor and pick up after yourself. . . Keep it beautiful!

- Hole 9, 10, 16, and 17 all have very deep rough in the summertime. There is saw grass that will eat up your legs. I have spent many hours over the past year looking for friend's discs.

- Grass/Dirt tee pads. (be patient, concrete tees will be poured eventually, just need to wait for the funds).

- Meeting a friend on a hole?. . . You may have to walk a mile just to get to them. Course covers a large area.

Be aware of previous reviews of this course. Kress Creek Farms used to have a different layout (which was not very good). If the review does not mention elevation and was before 5/2011, they probably played the old layout.
Enjoy!

This is one of the better courses that I have ever played. I thoroughly enjoy the creative use of the landscape. The rolling hills allows for fun elevation shots, whether you're shooting uphill or downhill. The forestry allows for some tight shots, and because the forest is NOT very thick, it is easy to find your disc if you miss your target. Yet, what I have found to be the best feature of this course is that virtually every hole, except (8,12,16,17), is an ace-able shot with average distances of 250-375 feet.

Overall, I believe that it is difficult to find any true cons with this course; especially since the more I've played it, the more I've come to appreciate all the subtleties that the course has to offer. However, there are some important factors to note before one may partake in playing this course. First, all the tee's on this course are made out of dirt, which means that if there is any rain, the tee's practically become sloppy mud pits. Second, the wind will play a factor in your throws especially if you are NOT a power-thrower. Since there are several wide-open holes (1,4-6,8,12,16-18) if there is any high velocity wind, you will have a difficult time controlling your disc. Third, some of the holes in the back of this course (9-11) utilize marshy swamps as hazards that can easily swallow your disc if thrown improperly. *Warning, if you lose your disc on hole 9 to the left of the tee and it lands in the swamp, the depth of the water can reach as high as 2-1/2 to 3 feet deep. Forth, be aware of the wildlife, while you may see a deer, there are also plenty of garden snakes and ticks that run rampant on this course.

Having visited many different courses in several different states, I have found Kress Creek Farms to be one of the most elite courses that I have ever played. The different and creative holes throughout the course allow you to test all the different throws that a disc golf enthusiast will encounter. This ranges from power-throws, finesse -throws, hyzer-throws, and anhyzer-throws. I truly recommend this course to any and all disc golfers, from the novice to experts, I believe everyone will find something to enjoy with this great course. *I recommend playing this course in the spring and early summer; because during the late summer and fall, the tall grass can grow quite high, which in turn will act as more potential hazards to lose your disc.

Good use of terrain and limited trees as well as a good variation between long and short holes. It was fun to air it out with little abandon on some of the more wide-open holes, as well as thread the needle in a tight row of trees.

A bit marshy on one of the mid-teen holes. If my socks would have gotten wet I would have been a sad, sad panda. Thankfully, nothing more than some mud on my shoe. Not really sure that there is any solution to the situation, just kind of one of those hazards that come from living in a swampy area.

I like the natural tees. I could see it being slippery when wet, but during dryer times, it allows for a more comfortable and forgiving follow-through on the opening drive. I really, really enjoyed this course and will definitely be going back soon.

Lots of elevation changes, great variety of shots, mildly wooded-wide open, great scenery.

Whiney reviewers. Far from my home.

If you like courses like Lombard, Bartlett, and Streamwood you'll likely enjoy this course. I think it's better than Lombard and Bartlett. There's more variety. Big arms will like this course, as there are lot's of long shots. This isn't a deeply wooded short hole course like it seems the reviewers here love. Golf in general isn't about ace runs kids it's about playing a challenging course. While I'll agree that Osweego is a good mix as well, many of those holes are not as well designed as this. Keep in mind that I prefer a golf course to a walk in the heavy woods. Courses like Marengo, St. Charles and even Osweego simply annoy me. I like a fairway, trees in lieu of sand traps (DG Bunkers really), and a chance to open up my arm to a big throw more than 1 time in a game. Also, the distance between the targets and the tees are not that bad. Have you people been to Bloomingdale? If not don't go. Isn't this a form of exercise anyway? The tees could be nicer but let's give WC a chance, in this economy they just updated the course, be patient. Plenty of courses have grass tees. As for the whining about courses in IL not being that great remember these are park district courses, I've played in other states as well and seen similar and MUCH worse courses. Sorry, I'm sick of the whining. I'm done whining about the whining now.