ROLLER DAMS

[optidiscic]

What do you guys think of course designs that thwart the rolling game with structures placed along the ground to create a roller dam and force you to throw an airborne shot or to putt from what is known as a "tester distance" (that is just far enough from the basket to test your putting game) I go back and forth on this as I think creativity is part of the game (and rolling to me is creative) but many say that it takes more skill to hit the tighter windows that these ROLLER DAMS force! I can't roll at all I just never learned the nuances and technique so I don't have a true opinion other than I find it curious that several of my home courses employ these. Especially Tyler SP in PA and South Mountain has this one on hole 17...note the green tight grass up the steep slope and the low canopy guarding the green...it's the perfect roller hole...but alas theres a massive telephone pole laying 25 ft goaltending the pin!....BASTARDS!

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?p=course_pics/28/69fdbcdf.jpg

[bikinjack]

I played a Halloween tourney, and a guy in the group ahead of me only threw rollers for everything except putts. Some roller dams would be good for him. It was funny, he was in the group ahead of me, and a DG Hall of Fame member, and very highly rated pro were in the group behind me, and we all had to wait a bit on the last few holes.

[optidiscic]

I played a Halloween tourney, and a guy in the group ahead of me only threw rollers for everything except putts. Some roller dams would be good for him. It was funny, he was in the group ahead of me, and a DG Hall of Fame member, and very highly rated pro were in the group behind me, and we all had to wait a bit on the last few holes.

So is rolling frowned upon...I know KC throws alot of rollers....but then again he can basically throw anything! I have seen some really amazing sky rollers and seen some older guys throw a roller that seems to somehow roll 400+ ft...seems some (not all) experienced players roll their eyes at roller players and then when designing courses they put in these ROLLER DAMS. This doesnt affect me (I don't roll like that) but Im sure there has to be other examples of this throughout the country.

[bikinjack]

I don't frown on it. It's just that it was all he threw. He would throw one and it would hit a root 100 feet from the tee, and careen off into the woods, then he would throw another roller to get out of the woods, and then another to get to the basket, then putt. It was just odd, especially considering who was in the group behind me, and how they played the hole, along with everyone else. I'm sure there are advantages to throwing rollers, but there are probably more advantages to not throwing them on every shot. I guess whatever works for you, go for it.

[mashnut]

I think roller dams can be a good way to make a specific hole force an air shot, but I'm not a fan of courses where the designer just didn't like rollers so they put them on a bunch of holes. I just think that looks kind of tacky, and takes away from the look of the course.

[zenbot]

What do you guys think of course designs that thwart the rolling game with structures placed along the ground to create a roller dam and force you to throw an airborne shot or to putt from what is known as a "tester distance" (that is just far enough from the basket to test your putting game) I go back and forth on this as I think creativity is part of the game (and rolling to me is creative) but many say that it takes more skill to hit the tighter windows that these ROLLER DAMS force! I can't roll at all I just never learned the nuances and technique so I don't have a true opinion other than I find it curious that several of my home courses employ these. Especially Tyler SP in PA and South Mountain has this one on hole 17...note the green tight grass up the steep slope and the low canopy guarding the green...it's the perfect roller hole...but alas theres a massive telephone pole laying 25 ft goaltending the pin!....BASTARDS!

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?p=course_pics/28/69fdbcdf.jpg
Are you sure it's goaltending and not preventing erosion?

[Terry C]

Rollers should be a specialty shot in my opinion, if your only throwing rollers then your missing out on a lot of the game not to mention your missing out on most of the good lanes if you dont throw in the air. Roller dams are a good idea if everybody is throwing rollers on a certain hole and making easy deuce shots, but I would agree with masnut that a bunch of telephone poles lying around would pretty much ruin the natural feel most people are looking for when disc golfing. If a course had 1 roller dam on 1 hole then that would be unique and interesting in my opinion, but several holes with roller dams would be very tacky and I would probly avoid playing a DGC that did that. Natural roller dams like tree roots and big rocks are the way the disc golf gods like it, too much fabrication on hole design makes the gods pissed off.

[simpletwist]

The only time I throw a roller is on accident. But if that's what works for someone then that's what they should do. My home course looks to me to be a roller paradise. However I don't think rollers should be unfairly penalized. And with some creativity roller dams could not only be functional but aethetically pleasing too. A low growing thicket that runs 3/4 across a fairway. A rock wall. A nicely landscaped drainage ditch. A flower box made of stone or concrete or railroad ties. A nice rock garden. Some mounded earth covered in grass. There are dozens of landscape elements that could and should be used.

I've only been to a large handful of courses. About half are heavily wooded and these kinds of courses have a natural way of challenging rollers with downed trees and limbs. But more open courses have the ability to use strategic landscaping landscaping elements to challenge rollers while enhancing the aesthetic beauty of a course.

Far too many course designers think only about the technical aspects of the game itself without trying to enhance the natural beauty of the setting. If you are a ball golfer you know what I mean. I've played at some nice, but plain bolf courses. And I've played at some beautifully landscaped courses too. And it wouldn't be overly cost prohibitive to add a few strategiically placed landscape elements to a course. 1 or 2 days with a Bobcat, some grass seed, maybe a half dozen fast growing, hardy thorn bushes...

I like the idea. But just like airborn shots, I think it should be a risk/reward thing. There are no holes that I know of that force you to throw a roller, so there should be no holes that force you to throw an airborn shot either.

[optidiscic]

Are you sure it's goaltending and not preventing erosion?

Yeah I'm sure spoke with those who maintain the course and specifically recall conversations about setting roller dam on hole such and such......the holes at Tyler may be more erosion control or just walls built to add difficulty and places to put debri in an aesthetic manner but essentially perform the function of Roller Dam.

[John Rock]

I've done some temporary "Roller Dams" before and they seemed to go over OK. I used landscape timbers and cinder blocks to construct "Flower Boxes" in a couple of fairways that get a lot of rollers. They weren't extremely large square footage-wise, but they were effective. The main negative I heard was the need to indicate them on the tee sign since they were hard to see from the tee area. But the fake flowers that we put in them were a big hit!

[Lewis]

What's the big deal with rollers? I don't have anything at all against them.

[John Rock]

I use 'em quite often. You can get some really good distance if you can get them to stand up correctly.

[Cgkdisc]

Joey "The Technician" Mela is heavily involved with the design at Tyler. He's a World Champion and expert roller. It wouldn't surprise me that those roller dams are there because Joey knows how "easy" a hole might be (at least for him) without them.

I haven't had a chance to do it yet but I'm wanting to do the opposite in a hole design. I want to find a situation where adding a small mound on both sides of the basket about 15 feet in front would provide the opportunity for someone to ace with a roller or skip shot off the mound.

[optidiscic]

Joey "The Technician" Mela is heavily involved with the design at Tyler. He's a World Champion and expert roller. It wouldn't surprise me that those roller dams are there because Joey knows how "easy" a hole might be (at least for him) without them.

I haven't had a chance to do it yet but I'm wanting to do the opposite in a hole design. I want to find a situation where adding a small mound on both sides of the basket about 15 feet in front would provide the opportunity for someone to ace with a roller or skip shot off the mound.

Interesting I thought the same thing whenever I play Tyler....but gave the benefit of doubt regarding erosion....but I am pretty sure all those low obstacles are to stop rollers...

As far as the ramp into the basket idea I have the same fantasy.....I was thinking a steep hillside with evergreens creating an almost must roll shot and then build a dirt ramp at base to propel disc into the basket.....it's funny how we often have the same crazy thoughts!

[GLong]

roller dams are built by those who wish they could throw a roller

[DavidSauls]

Some of these I've seen are not roller dams as such, since a roller that hits the dam might otherwise have rolled just as far past the basket. Sometimes they are to stop skips or skidding discs---discs that were thrown 40' short, but otherwise slide up to the basket.

[sidewinder22]

When I played Iron Hill I noticed a lot of them and they were all holes that I would prefer to throw a roller. It forced me to throw low ceiling air shots which didn't go nearly as far as a roller would so it added up on my score after a while. I was semi-frustrated, but it does make you work on your air shots and makes the course harder.

I think Seneca is the opposite with the cedar trees everywhere that eat discs out of the air. I threw 60 rollers off the tee out of 72 holes at the MAAC tourney.

I can't complain about either course and they make them unique and harder in both cases and makes you improve your game.

[solomon.trenton]

there are several courses in MA that have logs throughout some of the fairways, but it is at dams to help tell depth.

[sidewinding]

Damn Roller dams! :wall:

[John Rock]

roller dams are built by those who wish they could throw a roller

Or built by those looking to toughen up a particular fairway.

[wolito]

Rollers should be a specialty shot in my opinion, if your only throwing rollers then your missing out on a lot of the game not to mention your missing out on most of the good lanes if you dont throw in the air. Roller dams are a good idea if everybody is throwing rollers on a certain hole and making easy deuce shots, but I would agree with masnut that a bunch of telephone poles lying around would pretty much ruin the natural feel most people are looking for when disc golfing. If a course had 1 roller dam on 1 hole then that would be unique and interesting in my opinion, but several holes with roller dams would be very tacky and I would probly avoid playing a DGC that did that. Natural roller dams like tree roots and big rocks are the way the disc golf gods like it, too much fabrication on hole design makes the gods pissed off.


Totally agree with you here. If it forces a specific shot then put in the roller dam, if not then leave it out. I would prefer to see a log rather then a man made structure for a dam. By the way I never throw rollers.

[sidewinder22]

Damn Roller dams! :wall:

Uhh huh huhh umm...is this like a god damn?

[LStephens]

If the roller damn is 25-30 feet in front of the basket...I'm still throwing the roller...if you can roll 400 feet..you better be able to hit a 25 foot putt.

[tmahan]

Rollers should be a specialty shot in my opinion, if your only throwing rollers then your missing out on a lot of the game not to mention your missing out on most of the good lanes if you dont throw in the air. Roller dams are a good idea if everybody is throwing rollers on a certain hole and making easy deuce shots, but I would agree with masnut that a bunch of telephone poles lying around would pretty much ruin the natural feel most people are looking for when disc golfing. If a course had 1 roller dam on 1 hole then that would be unique and interesting in my opinion, but several holes with roller dams would be very tacky and I would probly avoid playing a DGC that did that. Natural roller dams like tree roots and big rocks are the way the disc golf gods like it, too much fabrication on hole design makes the gods pissed off.

I agree with this except that a hole that is only getting dueced by rollers could be a poorly designed hole if it doesn't offer any reasonable air route. This was a knock on the old Seneca.

[solomon.trenton]

Or built by those looking to toughen up a particular fairway.

because roller are successful there;)

[hognosesucker]

hedge apple trees (osage orange) can provide great seasonal roller obstacles when the hedge apples fall, there are a bunch of them that block rollers at my home course, but I think it was coincidental.

[hognosesucker]

but I think roller dams are fair game just as low hanging branch forcing a low or skip shot are fair

[Cgkdisc]

I agree with this except that a hole that is only getting dueced by rollers could be a poorly designed hole if it doesn't offer any reasonable air route. This was a knock on the old Seneca.
Why is this a problem on a few holes when there are thousands of holes where the only route is thru the air? Perhaps old Seneca had too many "roller best" holes though.

[360chickenwingroller]

A roller is just another shot. If everyone could throw rollers, courses all across the world would have "dams" on every hole. The roller dam is a great course design tool, but some holes will not benifit from their use. Personaly I like the "dams" with gaps and when they are staggered. They can also be used to block skips:rolleyes:

rollers rule