Dilemma

[Unkles27]

OK, so the other day I was out messing around at my local course working on my drives when I run into a guy I've played with a couple times and a few of his friends. They ask me if I want to join them so I do.

We're about halfway done when I notice that one of these guys is playing with an old beat up TeeBird that had one of my good friends name and number on the bottom. So I mention to the guy with the disc that I know the owner of it and I was with him when he lost it. He just says that he's found a couple of my friends discs and everybody has a good laugh at my friends expense. It's obvious that they made absolutely no attempt to return the disc and have no intentions of doing so. I didn't push the issue but am wondering if I should next time I play with them. I know my friend would like his discs back but I don't want to piss off these guys either.

So, I'd like to know what you all would do

[REDARMY]

bring your friend (the original owner of the disc) with you and confront the guy together (calmly at first). if he still refuses to return it, you now have justification to not only call him a thieving inconsiderate ******* (who obviously has no concept of the spirit of community amognst DG'ers), but also reason to go to the police with theft charges (or recieving stolen property, depending on the jurisdiction).

i know a $14 frisbee is hardly reason to get the police involved, but if the guy refuses to return property that is obviously not his, perhaps a visit from the local smokeys will teach him a lesson in morality.

[Donovan]

Returning discs is the right thing to do in the "Spirit of the Game.' But it is no rule or law. You abandoned your property and someone else recovered it. This is the way things go. I don't like it anymore than you do, but I do like the idea of your friend asking for his discs back or at least offering the guy something for them.

[atl scott]

Returning discs is the right thing to do in the "Spirit of the Game.' But it is no rule or law. You abandoned your property and someone else recovered it.

Agreed. I always try to return discs if I find them, but don't understand the mentality of demanding something back. Writing your name on something doesn't mean you have more of a right to have it back, it's just a hope that someone nice will return it.

[zud00]

After you play another round with them, take them to Eskimo Joe's and meet your friend there. Buy them a drink and you will get your friend's disc(s) back.

[borndasaur]

One of the rules in tournament play is a 3 minute limit on searching. Granted that with 3 or more people looking this is usually plenty of time. However, there are situations where a disc is declared lost, the round continues and all you can do is hope some understanding soul finds it. This is not the same as abandoning your property. This is a risk of the game but, if the disc is identifiable it should be returned.

[garublador]

Returning discs is the right thing to do in the "Spirit of the Game.' But it is no rule or law. You abandoned your property and someone else recovered it. This is the way things go. I don't like it anymore than you do, but I do like the idea of your friend asking for his discs back or at least offering the guy something for them.Check your local laws about that one. Many places would consider them stolen property. "Finder's keepers, loosers weepers," doesn't always hold up in court as well as you might think. ;)

[Adam Schneider]

Returning discs is the right thing to do in the "Spirit of the Game.' But it is no rule or law. You abandoned your property and someone else recovered it.
Wrong. At least here in Oregon, we've checked with local law enforcement, and they've confirmed that if you don't make a "reasonable attempt" to return something you've found (assuming it has a name and number on it so you can make the attempt), it is THEFT.

[trifocal]

I've heard the "abandonded disc" argument before and I still disagree with that rationalization. I like the buying the guy a drink approach, its hard to keep something that belongs to someone else if you know that person...and it is alot more diplomatic than force. If that doesn't work, I'd let the disc go, but I certainly wouldn't play disc golf with that guy again.

I've lost 6 discs this year with my name and number on them and have yet to have one returned. It seems that returning property isn't high on the list of the right thing to do for some people. There will always be people who can rationalize crimes against others...large or small.

[taxman]

michigan law.

if you find something that doesn't belong to you you are required to report the find with the local police department. if it is not claimed within a reasonable amount of time the item will be given to the finder.

if you loose an item you are required to go to a local authority and report the item lost. if you do not do so the item will be assumed to be abandond and given to the finder.

most states have similar practices. if you want your disc back legally, you better report it lost.

legal mumbo jumbo aside. if i see a disc with a name on it i call that person and tell them i found it. i'll make myself available to return the disc if they want it. and i would hope (not expect) that someone would do the same for me upon finding my disc.

[sidewinding]

Here's what Jesus said we should do:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

[Adam Schneider]

Wait... so according to Jesus, if someone steals one of our discs, we should hold out our bags and say "take your pick"? No thanks. :D

[heelboycraig]

Here's what Jesus said we should do:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Using a passage from the Bible, especially one that doesn't apply to this situation, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The passage refers refers to not seaking revenge against those who have wronged you. It means you're going to go above and beyond the call of duty to show love to someone who hasn't shown it to you. Second, the passage refers to somebody doing wrong to you, not to you making the decision for someone else.

Basically, if Unkles decides it's not worth the hassle to make a big deal over his lost disc, that's his choice. If it were me, I'd approach the person, asking for my discs back. If they say no, I'd either see about trading with them, or just letting it go because I would have already treated the disc as lost. In most cases, if someone is confronted in a situation like this, they'll know they have someone else's property and give it back at little to no cost.

[Unkles27]

alright, so lots of good ideas on here.

I like the simple approach best, go out to Joe's, buy the guy a drink and ask him for the discs back. Obviously I should bring my friend along because they are his discs but I'm worried because my friend has an abrasive personality and I could see things getting a little heated.

Anyway, I'll give that a shot, I'm planning on playing a few rounds with those guys this weekend. I'll keep y'all posted

[garublador]

Here's what Jesus said we should do:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.So if you give the guy a tunic, let him spank you and walk two miles with him then you'll get your disc back.

[trifocal]

I'll give that a shot,

Unkles... If your going to shoot the guy, can I have the other discs in his bag? I'll be your alibi.

[discflinger]

So if you give the guy a tunic, let him spank you and walk two miles with him then you'll get your disc back.

Nice...

[blang]

If I saw a guy that had one of my friends discs, I would ask for it to be returned through me. If it was not returned I would at the very least refuse to continue the round with him. I would also post the description of the guy on the local disc golf forum letting everyone know what they would be dealing with. Most players would give him a hard time if he did not eventually return the disc and in all honesty one or two might physically threaten him. If this player continued to play our courses he would learn his lesson or be ostracized.

We have done it before and we have to this point assisted in creating more ethical players instead of enabling their bad behavior. We take disc thieving seriously and because of this everyone benefits.

[Donovan]

You know all this law stuff is absolutely true. However, I really don't see calling the police over a piece of plastic. I can't even imagine what the cops would think. But if you can live with the consequences that come with that disc from that course of action, so be it.

I do know that wanting to get people to do the right thing is wonderful and sharing it is the best thing for the sport. However, I don't think creating enemies and hatred will ever help our sport. Being ethical and doing the right thing is the way to be, but trying to force it down some idiots throat, will only cause them to become worse. Sometimes that is not the cancer you want to be spreading.

Just some random thoughts.

[blang]

I do know that wanting to get people to do the right thing is wonderful and sharing it is the best thing for the sport. However, I don't think creating enemies and hatred will ever help our sport. Being ethical and doing the right thing is the way to be, but trying to force it down some idiots throat, will only cause them to become worse. Sometimes that is not the cancer you want to be spreading.

History may tell us something different :)

Cattle Rustler

A professional in the West involved in the stealing of branded cattle and altering the brand. In the very early west, cattle rustling was almost accepted as a way to build up one's head of livestock which is how many a cattle rancher got his start

Stealing an unbranded calf not following it's mother was not even looked upon as rustling. But as the cattle barons decided it was hurting their pocketbook, cattle rustling began to be seen as a serious crime

There were two types of branding iron, the stamp iron which included the full brand and the running iron which had a hooked tip that could be used to change or make any brand

The running iron was a favorite tool of the cattle rustler. Latter being caught by a vigilante group with a running iron in one's possession could mean certain death by hanging if the law wasn't around.


The similarities between a cattle rustler and a disc thief beg to be compared...

[peabody]

Just pretend as if you lost the thing and go buy yourself another one.
We all know the consequences of bad throws and instead of feeling bad about your loss you want to redirect your anger toward someone/something else?
Post in the LOST/FOUND portion of your local Club or on the board at that particular course.
I always find that If I go buy another one then that one will show up right after the purchase.

[borndasaur]

I always find that If I go buy another one then that one will show up right after the purchase.

Murphy's Law as applied to DG

[Unkles27]

lets not go hanging anybody over this issue.

But, to clarify things a little bit this was not just some piece of plastic to my buddy. It was his first, favorite and best disc. It was an old and beat MRV and he's been lost without it and can't seem to find a good replacement for it. So, obviously he would like it back. Of course, nobody is going to call the police on this guy if he doesn't give it back, but I think that it is worth a try at least.

[adam423]

kick his ass c bass.

[kunipshunfit]

First - let me introduce myself, it is after all my first time posting here :) - I'm kunipshunfit (Jason). I play in the Raleigh, NC area.

So I've read through this - and there is a situation that I have seen happen more than a few times (to me and a friend of mine) - I wanted to get some opinions, and it also relates to this topic.

At my local course often people 'hunt' for lost disc's - I use to believe writing my name and number on these disc's would help. I thought - people will call and want to return the disc. After playing for a little bit, I discovered why this is not entirely true. We have a local "Play it again sports" - and it is pretty much THEE place to pick up plastic in person. What I have noticed is that people will go in there and re-sale your plastic, scoop up the 4-5 dollars they most likely give you, and then re-invest that into new plastic for themselves. I've had this happen on 2 distinct occasions. The first, I lost my Champion Beast in the rough of a longer hole, and the second my friend dropped off his MRV, Fly-dye disk in the edge of a small pond. In both cases we looked for quite a long time for both disc's.

I sorta have to take the stance that my friend and I both gave up searching for our disc's and considered them donations to other persistent search parties :) Karma being what it is, I was in that local play it again sports the other day, and in the 'used' basket, I found my friends MRV. I bought it back from the store for something like $8.00. I returned it to my friend and all is well we often refer to this as the "Circle of life" disc.

Either way I wanted to chime in with that story, because while I do think it is always nice to call someone up and return the disc, there are situations where it just does not happen, and at the point that the store bought it, well you can't demand the store return the disc.

PS - I'm actually considering making a disc drop box - for lost/abandoned disc's - and asking the local park if I can put it out, so that lost disc's can be returned to there owners. I have lost some nice Champion, ESP/FLX plastic on occasion and it would be nothing short of amazing to have someone return them to me.

Anyway - just my 2 cents :) and by the way - nice to meet everyone :)

[blang]

, and at the point that the store bought it, well you can't demand the store return the disc.

Yes you can. Especially if you name is on it.

[frisbeeguy]

C'monnnnn, let it go.

You always lose one of your best discs...your only turnover mid-range... your into the wind dependable, super-stable driver...your long putter. It happens.

Some times you get them back. It's a great thing to get one back so in my book you always attempt to return found discs.

I've lost dozens of discs & had a few returned over the years. It's ALWAYS been my best disc lost at the time and usually it's during a tournament round.

While it's traumatic at the time (nobody looks longer then me to find a disc...I'll forgo the round sometimes to keep looking for a cherished (out of production) disc. But, in the end, I can let it go & hope the finder has as much fun with it as I had. Remember...it's a mass produced, molded piece of plastic & it really is easy to replace in the long run. With time, you'll forget about that important disc because you'll be throwing others.

One of my Sat. morning skins buddies writes "finders keepers" on the botttom of his discs.

Is it really worth a big confrontation to get a disc back?

This is part a generational thing, part honor & integrity thing, part ignorance & lack of knowledge of the games history that has brought us the point of "finders keepers"

The gen x'ers are mostly a generation of people with a strong sense of entitlement. It's mine no matter what. That taken with the fact that money is tight and finding a disc...getting something for "free"...removes any guilt that they have actually found someone elses prized posession.

I think you'll find just about any older player will do all they can to return a found disc. We usually have plenty of old discs kicking around anyway.

Good bye favorite flippy Sirius JLS, good bye favorite Sirius JLS back-up (both lost the weekend before an A tier a few weeks ago. (I only get to play early on weekend mornings between tourneys)
Good bye favorite ROC last weekend. She sank real fast! (Yes, it was during a tournament.)

I hope the people that find them use them to become better players.

[Flies to the Left]

My main course has a lost and found drop box. I think there have been about 20 discs put in the box in the year it has been installed. I been lucky and never lost a disc there.

The only disc I have ever lost and got back was when I got a call from 'Play It Again Sports." Someone found my disc and turned it into there lost and found pile. You have to take the disc to the store. I know at least two of the stores that do this.

I think the drop box at the beginning of the course is the best. It make it seem normal to return a disc, especially since the finder doesn't have to do much to do the right thing.

[borndasaur]

"I lost my favorite disc"
Since your favorite disc is thrown more than any other, chances are it will be the one lost. Has anyone ever heard someone complain about losing their worst disc? They may mention losing it, but usually follow up with "I didn't really like it anyway"
The park & rec depts here usually have a lost a found box in the rec center and are pretty good about getting at least a description before letting one go. Great idea about the drop box. Who keeps the key?

[blang]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/2925254553_9c028d6d95_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2926108892_e16751b506_m.jpg

[Greg Layton]

I'm in the "if you walk away from it, it's fair game" crowd. I write my name and number on my discs but I haven't gotten a phone call yet and don't really expect to.

[arrdee33]

I played a course in Marietta, Ga where they have a lost and found box. Check it out on the Directory....Oregon Park, in there photos.
Now granted, not everyone will use this box. But it is a simple means of trying to return them. I know in the past trying to meet someone for returns can be difficult. At least this way there is a central location. A list can be posted on the park board of names retrieved and once a week or month at your clubs events can be a routine time to give them back.

i think even sticking a couple retired discs in there might attract people to do the same. when the look in the hole and see a disc in there, they may think, "okay there is a method here" just a thought anyway.

my philosophy is no name means free game. so write your name on em for any hope of getting them back.

As for those who don't try even to return ones well marked/named, all you can hope for is they shank there shot with your disc.:D

[blang]

I played a course in Marietta, Ga where they have a lost and found box. Check it out on the Directory....Oregon Park, in there photos.
Now granted, not everyone will use this box. But it is a simple means of trying to return them. I know in the past trying to meet someone for returns can be difficult. At least this way there is a central location. A list can be posted on the park board of names retrieved and once a week or month at your clubs events can be a routine time to give them back.



Marietta, Ga has a history of protection of property. Its neighboring city of Kennesaw had a law passed in 1982 that requires every head of household to maintain a firearm with ammo. This does not directly relate to Oregon Park's drop box but it does tell you something about many of the people that play there. Many people have been playing at Oregon Park for years and are always willing to teach proper disc etiquette to new players. It is a great place to play with positive influences.

[Brokensaint]

It sucks to lose a disc, absolutely. I write my name and number on each of my discs, and have been lucky enough to have had two separate discs returned to me. I have found well over 20 discs, of them maybe 4 or 5 had numbers, which I called. Those discs were returned, save one that belonged to a guy in Arkansas who had been up visiting in STL when he lost it.
Now, I would like to think that people would return my discs, or at least give me a ring and tell me where I could pick it up from them, but the reality is that its a crap shoot. After all, I am choosing to throw them over lakes and through forests in the fall and what have you, so if I lose one, and more to the point if I STOP looking for it, then it's lost. If someone comes along and finds it, happy day for them. Next time I'll focus a little more on my throw to keep the stupid thing on the fairway.
If there are other groups playing around me on a given day and I find a disc, I'll ask (if they're close) if they lost one, or I might just leave where it is in case they come back around. If the course is empty, as I play in the early mornings on weekdays a lot, no name becomes my name.
Oh, and one other thing: If I climb or swim to get it, name or not I figure it's mine. The previous owner clearly gave up on it because of where it was. Likewise holds true for my own lost plastic.