Innova Vs. Discraft [Archive] - Disc Golf Course Review

Pitch

11-29-2008, 02:02 PM

Numero Uno, Innova.
Look they all follow them,Yeah the comp has a good disc out there but it's all been copied from Innova molds(At least anything worth throwing)
If you look close,Compare the molds,The rims,Flight patterns etc,You'll find Innova all over them.
You might like the plastic better from another company but that's all the diffrence you'll really find.
The only way your gonna find a disc that flies better or FARTHER is if the PDGA allows diffrent specs.
Like for instance,A hole in the middle,Aerobie?Might happen some day too.
You can throw one of those a country mile but it's not PDGA approved.
Some discs from the past were banned because they were too small or too heavy and so on.Some should have never been made LOL.Might as well been throwing a trash can lid.
If it's not Innova it's not in my bag.The only thing I USED to throw was a Cyclone.But that was 15 years ago and they were given to me.It was a good disc too.
At my displays Innova sells an easy 20 to 1 over the rest,Maybe even better.
I wonder why.
My 2 cents.

Starwraith169

11-29-2008, 02:18 PM

solomon.trenton

11-29-2008, 08:11 PM

All of my disc in my bag are Innova except for the Pro D Buzzz. I like the feel of Innova better and find that they tend to fly better and feel more natural coming out of your hand.

Three Putt

11-29-2008, 08:35 PM

valkyriefb11

11-29-2008, 08:52 PM

Adam Schneider

11-29-2008, 09:39 PM

All of my mid-ranges are Discraft (Stratus, Comet, Buzzz, Wasp, Drone); my drivers are half Innova and half Discraft.

gusc2375

11-29-2008, 10:46 PM

I prefer Innova Drivers but Discraft mids and putters. The Buzz is my favorite
I have never liked the Roc. I have tried several of the other Innova mids, Cobra XD, coyote, stingray, shark, kite. None of them felt as good to me every time I threw them. Same with the putters I have tried all avairs, birdie rhyno(ching tank) pig, none felt as good as the challenger I have it in cryZtal and soft X plastic. At one time I use the MRV for mids but they stopped making it because the buzz is so popular. I do have a few Lighting and a old Polaris LS.I am currently using a XS driver that suites me well. So I will throw any thing that flies well and feels good in my hand.

Geoffro

11-29-2008, 10:49 PM

I am all Innova, though I don't claim anything by this - it's just what I've played with. With a feeble mind, it makes sense to keep it simple...

borndasaur

11-29-2008, 11:16 PM

Of the 15 discs in my bag, all but 2 are Innova. A Buzz to round out the midrange choices and a super stupid soft Wizard for severe uphill/downhill putts.

Hamilton

11-29-2008, 11:52 PM

i have 10 innovas in my bag, 3 discraft. the only reason i have any DC is b/c they were given to me. don't get me wrong, i like my avenger and soft magnet, but i would be just as happy with a monster and soft aviar...found a stratus last wednesday at idlewild, still have to get used to such an understable disc...but to reiterate, i've thrown many DC discs, but have only actually purchased innova...

discinator

11-30-2008, 12:44 AM

I carry about half and half of innova and discraft, but I really use the discraft discs most of the time. I switched for a couple of reasons. First I really like the flx plastic that discraft makes. Second I like the colors available with discraft better, to me they seem brighter and easier to see.
When I was looking for a putter I tried the flx challenger and really liked it. From there it was really just a matter of time. As I lost a disc I would replace it with the discraft equivalent in flx. They are flexible, grippy, and practically indestructible. My current plan is to keep replacing all of my discs with the flx as they get lost or worn out.

Donovan

11-30-2008, 04:42 AM

I'm like Three-Putt. I have ldiscs from many different companies. I am not dedicated to any of them. Although, I am not about to change from Gateway putters anytime soon. ;)

buzzinb

11-30-2008, 09:50 AM

Its the old "Ford vs Chevy" (whole new can of worms ;-)thing to me. I have about a 50/50 mix and am glad that there is more than one company to chose from. Competition generally equals better products.

peabody

11-30-2008, 10:08 AM

What I carry

Drivers:
Innova Beast/Monarch/Destroyer/Wraith
Discraft Predator and Force

I use the Innovas mostly but the Force gets used quite a bit.

Mids:
Innova Stingray/161 Roc/180Roc
Discraft Avenger SS/Ace Race 2008

I tend to throw the Avenger more now that I am getting used to it. The Rocs are the next most used.

Putters:
Innova Rhyno
Discraft Magnet

The Rhyno is used most but the Magnet comes into play about 1/4 of the time.
I rotate the Magnet with the Gateway Warlock and Wizard and my Discraft X Puttr.

So , it's not about the company, it's about what works for you.

discflinger

11-30-2008, 10:18 AM

Wow, you use the Avenger as a mid? I thought it was a pretty fast driver, not too stable but enough for a rip. The SS on the other hand is a pretty good turn over driver.

I use Gateway, Discraft and Innova, but more inclined to Innova. However, I think Discraft has the best plastics while Innova has better designs, but how can you top a gateway putter?

peabody

11-30-2008, 10:24 AM

Yea, the Avenger is pretty light and I am OLD as Methusela(sp) so it doesn't go that far but it is very predictable as a turnover. I don't think I could drive it very far though. At least not as far as I can throw the 160 beast or the 168 destroyer.
And yes, the Super Stupid Soft putter is perfect for cold weather.

iDisc

11-30-2008, 11:19 AM

i can never get max distance with discraft. i throw the magnet for upshots and thats about it for discraft. for innova i throw wraiths and destroyers mainly and im starting to develop a loving relationship with the roc. innova all the way. im not dissing discraft im agreeing with Three Putts about throwing what works and innova works the best for me

jdquinonez

11-30-2008, 02:38 PM

i think i have one discraft disc and its a great disc and all but i prefer innova. Some of the guys earlier were talking about how its hard to find places to find discraft discs and i actually did the other day but i haven't had a chance to buy any yet. I think i'm gonna start throwing discraft more so that i can at least try them. I have a star beast, wraith, and destroyer and they are definitely awesome discs for me

DirtyMittenDG

11-30-2008, 03:37 PM

Drivers- Innova (All)

Mid Range- Discraft (Buzz)

Putters- Both (Magnet = Avair)

iDisc

11-30-2008, 03:58 PM

thenamesben

11-30-2008, 04:31 PM

I throw 100% Innova. I actually do own 3 Discrap discs, one someone gave me, the other two were from this year's Ace Race... but I do not throw them!

leathercash

11-30-2008, 05:01 PM

^ Actually,it's pronounced " Discraft" not discrap. And if you don't like them,give them to some one who will appreciate them.

thenamesben

11-30-2008, 06:42 PM

^ Actually,it's pronounced " Discraft" not discrap. And if you don't like them,give them to some one who will appreciate them.

Oh wow, you caught the whole Discrap thing, you're a smart one. I don't throw them, I don't like the company, I'll call it whatever I damn well please. If you have a problem with that... then tough.

DiscChainBasket18

11-30-2008, 08:21 PM

All Innova except my putter: Wizard SS
*Other occasional runs in my bag:
DGA Riptide,Cyclone, Stratus,Talon, FLX Avenger ESP, Ace Race disc.
*Next to try:
Surge ESP
Gayeway Speed Demon

ZMan44

11-30-2008, 09:02 PM

We have to have a multiple company system. Discraft makes Innova better because Innova has someone to beat in the market. Some of the early Discraft Molds were based on Innova molds but now there are certain Innova discs based on Discraft molds.

My bag is of mostly Innova. That being said, the FLX plastic is much more durable than the Innova Star. I have lots of knicks in a lot of my star plastic discs. I have three FLX discs (Surge, Avenger SS, and XL) and they have all hit just as many trees as the Innovas and are in much better condition. I still like Innova's old SE plastic much better than any other plastics but those discs are hard to find.

Latitude discs are pretty nice and the optoline plastic is sharp. Quest discs seem to be "gimmicky". They seem to break in a little too fast and become useless. I do use an Infreno that was made in the evolution gateway plastic and I like it. But overall the quest lines are designed as gimmicks for newbies. The best putters are the gateway line (Wizard, Warlock, Magic, and Voo Doo). I have used Aviars, Magnets, Challengers, APXs, Rhynos...everything. The gateway putters are simply the best. I will NEVER use anything else unless they go out of business and all of mine are lost.

Bottom line...we have to have other competitors or Innova will become as lazy as Microsoft. Without competitors, Microsoft products became bland and they didn't update quickly enough. Now that Apple is pushing them, they have put out more products and are putting a lot into R&D. Discraft is strating to take a bigger market segment than in the past because even though they may be hard to find locally, many disc golfers (myself included) are buying a majority of their gear online. With Disc Golf Center and Marshall Street sales, I can get discs online for much cheaper than I can here and I can have a greater selection of weights and colors. I am seeing a lot more Discraft in this area and we have no place that sells them within 50 miles. Ace Races and Nate Doss challenging Climo, Feldberg, and Jenkins are just a few things that are fueling the push for Discraft. Is one better than the other...I don't think so. They are two companies selling similar products in a competing market. The only difference is that right now Innova is bigger in market share and resources. As Discraft grows they will probably become equally profitable within 10 to 15 years. And it will be good because they will be pushing each other. Hopefully, some more companies can step up as well.

Midnightbiker

11-30-2008, 10:54 PM

I guess I am strange, because I carry a mix in my bag . My main drivers are Quest and Millennium, I carry several Innova, and discraft and my putter is a Magnet.

Midnightbiker

11-30-2008, 10:55 PM

I throw 100% Innova. I actually do own 3 Discrap discs, one someone gave me, the other two were from this year's Ace Race... but I do not throw them!

Have you thrown everying in Discrafts line of discs? There might be something you actually like.

sidewinding

12-01-2008, 11:09 AM

ERicJ

12-01-2008, 12:01 PM

Discraft will never sell as many discs as Innova until they come up with a better flight rating system. The masses don't want to spend good money on a disc if they have no idea how it will fly. That's the main reason Innova rules.
Agree with the point that Innova has better marketing to the disc golf crowd.

But I think Discraft makes most of their money from the Ultimate discs. From what I understand Discraft is the name in Ultimate discs.

ERic

leathercash

12-01-2008, 12:01 PM

Oh wow, you caught the whole Discrap thing, you're a smart one. I don't throw them, I don't like the company, I'll call it whatever I damn well please. If you have a problem with that... then tough.

hahahahahahahah:D

garublador

12-01-2008, 12:05 PM

Keep in mind that Discraft does sell a ton of Ultrastars. I wouldn't be surprised if they out sold Innova with just that one disc.

Here's how my bag breaks down:

Gateway - 8 discs, 2 molds (5 Wizards, 3 Spirits)
Discraft - 1 disc, 1 mold (X Avenger)
Millennium - 1 disc, 1 mold (SOLF)
Innova - 8 discs, 3 molds (3 Rocs, 3 Gazelles, 2 Teebirds)

Anyone not willing to carry discs from multiple manufacturers is either good enough to be sponsored or at a disadvantage to those of us who have the option to choose the objectively best discs.

garublador

12-01-2008, 12:08 PM

But I think Discraft makes most of their money from the Ultimate discs. From what I understand Discraft is the name in Ultimate discs.

ERicIt's true. Try brining anything but an Ultrastar to a league or club Ultimate game just about anywhere in the world and see if they'll use your disc. I'll bet you'll be successful much less than 1% of the time.

Unkles27

12-01-2008, 12:08 PM

ERicj, you're dead on. I'm a fairly big ultimate player and I have four ultra-stars and most of my friends have at least one or two. If you're serious about ultimate then you buy discraft.

valkyriefb11

12-01-2008, 02:45 PM

ERicj, you're dead on. I'm a fairly big ultimate player and I have four ultra-stars and most of my friends have at least one or two. If you're serious about ultimate then you buy discraft.

Discraft's has more of a monopoly on Ultimate discs than Innova has on Disc Golf. Discraft Ultrastar is the ultimate disc. And as one who has thrown almost every ultimate disc ... Discraft has the best disc out there in the ultrastar.

readmedottext

12-01-2008, 03:02 PM

All of my discs are Innova. I've seen a few other brands for sell at a pro-shop, but elsewhere I have found only Innova (they have a really good setup at the Dick's Sporting Good stores Ive been to) and once in awhile Wham-o (Which I haven't tried).

I don't want to order a disk online when I haven't felt it. Just wierd that way.

Jungle Tim

12-01-2008, 05:18 PM

Discraft will never sell as many discs as Innova until they come up with a better flight rating system. The masses don't want to spend good money on a disc if they have no idea how it will fly. That's the main reason Innova rules.

I could not agree more. Fact is that discraft make some really good discs, but people are not super confident throwing a discs they are not 100% sure about what it should do.

As for Discraft Vs. Innova. Innova wins comfortably, but its not a walkover. The Predator, buzz and banger-gt as well as FLX and Elite X in my opinion beat their innova counterparts.

FYI My bag
Drivers - Boss, Surge, Teebird x2, Sidewinder. Predator.
Mid - Comet Roc/Wasp.
Putt - Banger - GT x2
Other - Whittler

innova

12-01-2008, 05:41 PM

What is Discraft?

:^p

Da Boss. Period.

leathercash

12-01-2008, 05:51 PM

Anyone not willing to carry discs from multiple manufacturers is either good enough to be sponsored or at a disadvantage to those of us who have the option to choose the objectively best discs.

See that's all I'm saying. I'm not even close to being good enough to stick with one manufacture. I'm new to the sport and I want to try as much out there as possible,with that said keep in mind I have no plans to EVER play competitively which is a choice of my own. I just want to throw and have fun and there's nothing wrong with that.:p

DeafDiscGolfer

12-03-2008, 07:38 PM

Surprisingly that no one has mentioned about the Lighting brand...They were around long before Quest even started.

In my bag so far:

Drivers - Innova (Pro/Star Wraiths, Champ. Sidewinder, & DX Valk), Discraft (Z Flash & Tracker), Quest (Raging Inferno DT), and Millennium (QJLS)

Mid - Innova (Champ. Cobra and DX XD) & Discraft (Z Buzzz)

Putter - Innova (DX A&P), Discraft (FLX Challenger), and Lighting (Prostyle U-2 Upshot)

Of course, I have to keep trying out various brands and molds anyway...;)

solomon.trenton

12-03-2008, 08:25 PM

i like innova drivers better and the Buzzz from discraft for a midrange because it flies dead straight.

Meast918

12-03-2008, 08:30 PM

I have just recently switched over to completely Discraft just their plastic just feels better in the hand and seem to be more consistent for me. I especially love the Force, Buzz, and Challenger.

petecarp

12-03-2008, 08:48 PM

i dont like it that discraft imprints their disc information on the inside rim of a lot of their discs. just a pet peeve of mine.

DeafDiscGolfer

12-03-2008, 09:26 PM

i dont like it that discraft imprints their disc information on the inside rim of a lot of their discs. just a pet peeve of mine.

I do like it cuz it gives something to grip onto...

;)

Magnus

12-03-2008, 09:39 PM

agentdozzer

12-03-2008, 09:50 PM

I throw all innova and admit i have a problem. Its just they are all i have thrown in so long and i understand and trust there flight chart. I have heard unless your getting sponsored you should have both and admit its a good saying and im sure dc has some good disc but why learn there flight patterns when i know the whole innova line? Did i mention for Christmas i am getting a innova bag. I like that they have two water bottle holders.

PanicKJ

01-04-2009, 10:37 AM

SoCal-Wraith

01-04-2009, 12:05 PM

Most all discs I see in stores are Innova, I live in LA so Innova is right outside the city. I have seen others at the pro-shops but have not bought any. After reading this post I will make sure I consider discraft for my next disc (maybe?).

my vote is for innova

progprowl

01-04-2009, 12:26 PM

I am a newbie and have all innova except for my Sabre. I actually love my sabre but the earth tone gets lost in the leaves so I have been using a yellow tee-bird instead.

Here is my question. I have a friend who uses discraft only. His reasoning is that if he loses his buzz, he knows he can buy another and it will be just like the one he lost.

Does anyone else think that discraft is more consistent in their discs?

It seems like each run of a mold from innova is a little differant than the last.
PanickJ
I think they are all fairly consistent out of the factory. With Innova there are so many wieghts and plastics, that it maybe hard for him to get consistency. Also maybe he has innova drivers and DC mids and putters? The drivers tend to get beat up more which changes the flight and if he gets used to it and buys a new version of the same driver it will fly differently.

I personally have mostly innova, a couple milleniums, and a DC Banger GT.

sidewinder22

01-04-2009, 02:34 PM

I had all Innova until recently and after I got my Discraft Soft Banger GT, i went and got a few drivers and midranges and love them. I'm really liking Discraft over Innova now. I love the Flick, Pulse, Buzz and Drone. Awesome discs!

valkyriefb11

01-04-2009, 02:46 PM

Is the Discraft Surge pretty much equivalent to the Innova Orc?

Three Putt

01-04-2009, 02:49 PM

Is the Discraft Surge pretty much equivalent to the Innova Orc?It's faster. I'd say the Surge is pretty similar to a Wraith.

kpc2004

01-04-2009, 02:57 PM

i seem to be the same as a lot of you guys....Innova is my preference for almost everything except i carry a Buzzz at all times, and i have a surge but it never gets used....my putter, however, is neither innova or discraft

valkyriefb11

01-04-2009, 02:58 PM

It's faster. I'd say the Surge is pretty similar to a Wraith.

Ahh ok, Is there another Discraft disc that is similiar to the orc?

SimonCarr

01-04-2009, 03:58 PM

Ahh ok, Is there another Discraft disc that is similiar to the orc?

Yup. The crush is pretty similar. The avenger is similar too, but probably more stable.

peabody

01-04-2009, 04:14 PM

Mabey the Slipstream gt?
Drive with Innova. First run Destroyer/Wraith/Beast/ect.
Mid range and approach are Discraft. Except for the Roc, I just love the Avenger SS Stratus/Predator/Flick/Surge.
I like Gateway for the putters though.

sub ceroh

01-04-2009, 04:17 PM

There is something other than Innova????? WHY?????

tamahawk

01-04-2009, 05:39 PM

I initially used Innova and Discraft discs. Now that I have been playing a little longer, and better understand how the discs are suppose to behave, I have started to replace my Discraft with Innova. One of the other posts mentioned Innova's rating system, and I agree, in my opinion, the Innova rating system is more detailed and makes more sense. I haven't found an Innova disc yet that doesn't behave like the rating would indicate. When I buy a new Innova disc, I have an expectation of it's flight and distance based on the rating, and I have not been disappointed.

Omega SuperSloth

01-04-2009, 08:31 PM

i agree about innovas flight charts and number system it really helps you get the disc you want for the job you need, if you get one thats close but not it you can use that disc as baseline to adjust to the right disc. the other thing is innovas consistency if you lose a disc you can get a new one that throws exactley the same with just a little breakin time then they hold their shape forever except for dx, i wish they would quit making that crap,maybe for putters but thats it . by the way innovas all i throw besides millenium which they make and are pretty much just copies of innovas disc in differant plastics

Three Putt

01-04-2009, 10:18 PM

Ahh ok, Is there another Discraft disc that is similiar to the orc?

Yup. The crush is pretty similar. The avenger is similar too, but probably more stable.I'd say Flash. But, there is a lot of overlap between the Crush and Flash.

33tango

01-05-2009, 07:09 AM

Innova because it's what is in the local shops. One of them has a couple discraft, but no information about them. There's some numbers on them and arrows, but no chart explaining what they mean.

I buy my discs locally in an effort to support businesses where people can "find" Disc Golf.

ZMan44

01-05-2009, 09:01 AM

I think the reason that Discraft is coming on stronbger these days is the FLX plastic. It throws really smoothly and feels good in the hand. I used to be an exclusive innova/millenium guy. It has all changed. Innova has put out a lot of different runs of the same disc in the same plastics that fly totally different. The most recent instance is that the first run champ Boss is not as stable as the newer run of the champ Boss with the Feldberg Auto stamp. The Star Tee Rex is another example of different runs, different characteristics. I feel much more confident knowing that if I lose my FLX Avenger SS, I can go buy another one that is nearly identical in flight. I learned the hard way from Innova with the Star Tee Rex...lost one, got a new one. It was not even close to the same disc. I had to put it in the practice/extra bag after three rounds. I only putt with Gateway.

But these are not the only companies either. I guess I am like a 19 year old in Vegas...I try a little bit of everything. Right now in my bag are...

Innova (Star Wraith, SE T-Bird (2), SE Valk, SE Leopard, Star Skeeter, Star Cro, Star Gator, Star Eagle-X)
DiscCraft (FLX Avenger SS, FLX Surge SS, FLX XL)
Gateway (E-Voo Doo, O-Magic, SSS-Wizard, SSS-Warlock )
Latitude 64 (Riot, Vision)
Snap (Helios)
Millenium (LF)

And for the record, the Snap Helios flies farther than anything else I own.

Lewis

01-05-2009, 09:11 AM

Why do we all find more Innova in the local shops? Is Discraft more focused on online sales?

Three Putt

01-05-2009, 11:51 AM

Innova is a lot bigger than Discraft, so in the end they can cut a better deal. When I was selling discs the wholesale price break for Innova and Discraft was the same except Discraft only did price breaks to orders down to 200 discs or something like that. Innova gave price breaks on orders up to 500 discs, and from what I understood if you called them and negotiated for larger orders they would give you even more of a price break. For a retailer it's all about the price. If Innova has the volume (which they do) to undercut the price per disc for Discraft, that's what you are going to see in the stores. Why would Wal-Mart care? If a Discraft disc costs $.05 more to stock, that's $.05 less they make on the sale. $.05 spread out over 10's of thousands of discs sold in stores across the country adds up. So all the big chains carry Innova.

If I was running a store and was going to stock some discs, I'd stock Innova. I really don't prefer Innova in any way, but that is what people buy. Why would I stock Discraft or Gateway or Quest when I can just stock Innova and sell more discs? Hmmm...let's see...do something that's easier and make more money, or do something harder and make less money. Hmmm...

BENFTS

01-05-2009, 12:04 PM

i carry a bit more Innova than DC in my bag. i love the soft challenger for approach puts and my Buzzz for mid-range drives and longer approaches. when i play a course with three discs i reach for an ESP Avenger, Soft challenger, and my Crystal Buzzz. when i need to throw over 350' i reach for the Innova Star Destroyer or my Xcaliber. i love both but have become a huge DC fan as of late.

CincyRocs

01-05-2009, 12:18 PM

I have two problems with the discraft rating system:

One is the lack of detail and precision. How far do the discs glide? How fast are the discs? How much fade is on the discs with a negative rating?

The second is the ratings change when the plastics change. What if I want a disc with more durability or more grip? The rating changes.

Three Putt

01-05-2009, 12:55 PM

I have two problems with the discraft rating system:

One is the lack of detail and precision. How far do the discs glide? How fast are the discs? How much fade is on the discs with a negative rating?All those ratings on the Innova discs are essentially made-up numbers to sell you discs. They can't measure any of this stuff. All glide means is the disc in understable so it won't hyzer out. Once you analyze the numbers, you can start to guess the numbers from the disc descriptions. There is no science there.

The second is the ratings change when the plastics change. What if I want a disc with more durability or more grip? The rating changes.Now this is something I like. It's just a fact...the denser plastics cause a disc to be more overstable. A Champion Banshee is A LOT more overstable than a DX Banshee, but according to Innova numbers they are the same. Discraft accounts for it by showing with their numbers that a Z disc is more overstable than a D disc in the same mold. Here here for truth in advertising.

Omega SuperSloth

01-05-2009, 02:18 PM

[QUOTE=Three Putt;22466]All those ratings on the Innova discs are essentially made-up numbers to sell you discs. They can't measure any of this stuff. All glide means is the disc in understable so it won't hyzer out. Once you analyze the numbers, you can start to guess the numbers from the disc descriptions. There is no science there.

first of all glide means its abbilty to maintain alltitude or how much air it will get when you throw it turn is what measures understable or high speed turn and fade measures low speed turn and second ive gone out to a flat beach and thrown all my innova drivers and they fly and land exactly how their flight chart shows i dont throw discraft so im not gonna tell anyone how they throw so dont tell me about innova cause ive pretty much thrown all of them.

Hamilton

01-05-2009, 02:30 PM

first of all glide means its abbilty to maintain alltitude or how much air it will get when you throw it turn is what measures understable or high speed turn and fade measures low speed turn ...

x2...glide is a measure of how much lift the shape of the disc creates, therfore how much it will "hang" in the air, and being able to tell how much a disc will turn right (high speed), before it fades left, and how hard it fades, are very useful bits of information that DC just does not provide...whether these are numerically measurable with instruments is one thing, it might be subjective but it is measurable...for these reasons i choose to buy innova over DC...

ERicJ

01-05-2009, 04:29 PM

I have two problems with the discraft rating system:
[...]
The second is the ratings change when the plastics change. What if I want a disc with more durability or more grip? The rating changes.
Now this is something I like. It's just a fact...the denser plastics cause a disc to be more overstable. A Champion Banshee is A LOT more overstable than a DX Banshee, but according to Innova numbers they are the same. Discraft accounts for it by showing with their numbers that a Z disc is more overstable than a D disc in the same mold. Here here for truth in advertising.

I agree that Discraft is more upfront about advertising the flight characteristics change in different plastics. And I really like that they stamp that on the discs.

However, Innova also admits the differences but not to what extent:

Star Line

Star discs have the same flight rating characteristics of Champion discs, although some Star discs may be slightly more high-speed stable.

Pro Line

Driver models are slightly less stable than INNOVA Disc Flight Ratings

DX Line

Initially more overstable than INNOVA Disc Flight Ratings and with increased wear eventually become less stable than the Disc Flight Ratings

Source: http://www.innovadiscs.com/faq/plastictype.html

Three Putt

01-05-2009, 04:43 PM

x2...glide is a measure of how much lift the shape of the disc creates, therfore how much it will "hang" in the air, and being able to tell how much a disc will turn right (high speed), before it fades left, and how hard it fades, are very useful bits of information that DC just does not provide...whether these are numerically measurable with instruments is one thing, it might be subjective but it is measurable...for these reasons i choose to buy innova over DC...Yeah, but the same shapes that create the lift also makes it understable. Understable=good glide. Overstable=bad glide. Big rim=fast. Small rim=slow. Basically with the Discraft stability number and the rim measurement, you can figure out what the Innova numbers for that disc will be pretty easily. It's not that hard to figure out.

Considering that it's just marketing, I really don't see it as a reason to choose one company over another. If a Surge is the best driver I've tried, I'm not going to ignore that just because it's a D-craft disc. Also, knowing what I know about Innova, probably the reason the other companies don't universally use the Innova rating numbers is that Innova has threatened to sue the pants of any company that does. That would not surprise me at all. Once you hear all the dirty little stories of how aggressively Innova had taken legal action against the other disc manufacturers, it paints a pretty compelling picture to throw the other guys discs IMO.

sidewinder22

01-05-2009, 08:29 PM

Innova is kinda like Microsoft, and Discraft would be the Apple of discgolf. Millennium would be one of the companies that Microsoft bought or muscled out and forced a "no compete" contract.

ZMan44

01-05-2009, 10:20 PM

DiscCraft will gain steadier popularity as the number of world class players who use them increases. If Nate Doss continues to win at a steady rate, players will become more intrigued. Innova sponsored players have a better chance in each of the big tourneys because their are more of them. (Climo, Feldberg, Jenkins, etc.) But if Doss can continue to compete, it could really boost sales for DiscCraft. Don't misunderstand me: I still carry a lot of Innova, but Innova is turning into the Microsoft of discs...little competition yields little advancement. Star plastic came out for the sole purpose of competing with ESP and FLX plastics. The competition spawned growth and more innovation in disc development. I think DiscCraft is making advances and, in so doing they are furthering the development of disc golf products as a whole.

Three Putt

01-05-2009, 11:01 PM

There was a time in the mid to late 90's where Discraft had a nice line-up of players. Ron Russell won World's in '99, Scott Stokely had set the world distance record first with an X-Clone and then with an XL, and Juliana Bower had just overtaken Elaine King as the best Women's player and they were both D-craft sponsored. Then Juliana jumped to Innova, Stokely got hurt and retired, and Ron Russell joined the real working world. Poof...the Discraft team was gone. They signed Cam Todd and Leslie Herndon away from Innova, but then they quit disc golf. So Discraft does not have a great history with their sponsored team.

I'm not sure it really matters. Really very few disc golfers know who the "pro" disc golfers are. All they know are the names on their discs. If you put out a disc and stamped "Deuce Biggilo, 5X World Champion" on it, most disc golfers would buy that Deuce Biggilo is a "pro" disc golfer. If you went out on a non-tournament Saturday and polled the casual golfers there on "pro" disc golfers, chances are 95% would not be able to name a player who does not have their name on a disc. So, I'm not sure what good it does for Innova to have a deeper team of sponsored players since most people buying discs have no idea who they are. The signature discs promote the players, not the other way around.

Lewis

01-05-2009, 11:04 PM

Competition is definitely good, but we shouldn't compare Innova and Discraft to Microsoft and Apple. It's a bit of a false analogy in my opinion, and it stirs up unhelpful passions.

Right now I'm an exclusive Innova user, mainly because their discs are what's available in stores, but also because their rating system makes sense to me. That could all change if I'm given persuasive reasons to try other brands, and then like what I find.

And for those of you who want to feel sorry for Discraft, remember that they make the official disc of Ultimate, and no doubt have a copyright on the mold. Given that fact, I'd betcha their share of the Ultimate market dwarfs Innova's.

In either market, the better product will eventually gain the loyalty of the players, starting with the pros, no matter what name is stamped on the plastic.

sidewinder22

01-05-2009, 11:24 PM

I was just trying to make a simple analogy, I don't understand why people are so sensitive to an opinion about a company. Apple pushes microsoft for better products and their respective market shares are similar regarding discgolf.

SimonCarr

01-05-2009, 11:28 PM

Discraft freaking rocks.. I throw mostly Innova, but I keep an old beatup Discraft XL that gets insane glide. Got to love the Buzzz. I'm also a big fan of the Hawk, which is a midrange disc that NO ONE talks about... Doss swears by the hawk.

Innova has more quality products overall, but they have been around longer and have put out a lot more discs. They also have also put out a lot more crappy discs, and they make a lot of discs that are nearly identical but with different names.

The PC / Mac thing doesn't apply at all (as macs are just far superior machines! :)

Three Putt

01-06-2009, 01:17 AM

And for those of you who want to feel sorry for Discraft, remember that they make the official disc of Ultimate, and no doubt have a copyright on the mold. Given that fact, I'd betcha their share of the Ultimate market dwarfs Innova's.Innova is a disc golf company that makes some sport discs and doggie toys on the side. The founder is a disc golfer. Discrafts founder is the co-inventor of Freestyle. They are a sport disc company that makes some golf discs. They make more money off Ultra Stars than they do selling all of their golf discs combined. That probably explains a lot about why Innova sells so many more golf disc.

CincyRocs

01-06-2009, 01:47 AM

I don't have anything agaisn't Discraft, I was just pointing out something that might be confusing for someone transitioning into disc golf or "coming over" from Innova.

You have to throw what you like and what feels comfortable for you, no matter the company.

fly_hyzer

01-06-2009, 02:01 AM

I play with whatever feels right...and for me that primarily means Innova. I came up playing in Austin and it seemed that everyone I was learning from already had an Innova bias, and I followed suit. These days I still prefer Innova off the Tee for distance and accuracy, nothing touches the Boss...and in the winds of North Texas the Destroyer and XCaliber kick ass. Old faithful for me will always be the Orc...hands down the most bang for the buck as far as distance, versatility, playability, plastic options, and control. Gotta love the Orc.

Recently I have been trying out different options with Midrange and Putt/Approach discs. Went back to an OG Viper I hadn't used in years, love the pro pig, and I wouldn't play (or at least wouldn't play happily) without my Buzzz...greatest midrange hands down. I really want to love a Roc, but until Innova wants to stock my bag I will have a Buzzz. Lately added a Wasp to the mix...not sure why really. But these are the only two Discraft discs that I would putt in the bag, the rest of their line that I have ever tried has been poop. The WORST disc I have ever bought, held, or thrown is hands down the Discraft Drone...that thing was a disc shaped sh*tbrick....horrible. But that tirade aside, Putters...can't go wrong with an Aviar, personally prefer DX plastic for this disc, but I have seen alot of star aviars out there. Give me some winds and I'll defer to my champion rhino, sturdy is the best word for it. It's like a beefy version of stable. But all-around best putter right now for me is hands down my Gateway Wizard in S series (premium DX...) plastic. The wizard is the single greatest disc I have ever bagged for an upshot, so reliable and with such a predicatable flight path. Get one.

But yeah, I bought a Quarter K back when they first came out. I have lightning discs, milleniums, gateway, discwing, whamm-o (my mom can be thanked for these goofy ass discs, christmas present), if it sounds interesting and reviews well I'll probably try one out...but overall Innova is where my bias lies.

Omega SuperSloth

01-06-2009, 01:10 PM

I admit i didnt know who those peoples names were when i first bought a t-bird or a vallkrie or a beast but the fact that they one that many championships and they use those means that company must be doing something right. if you buy a b-ball with jordans name on it its not like he uses it in a game, the name on innovas disc mean nothing to me the only disc i throw with a name on it is the t-bird and i didnt buy it because it said 12x champion but when i threw it i figured out why it did. do they sell deuce bigellos at academy?

Rbuzz9

01-06-2009, 03:07 PM

Loving all the Buzzz users - i personally prefer the X but i have Z, & FLX as they are all great. Being a mostly FH driver i have a DC Flick as well as some Innova XCals. My BH is coming along but i cant say any Innova or DC molds are better or more consistent they all seem fairly interchangeable. Orc/SURGE/FLASH/Rogue (DGA but made by DC) - all fly similar. the only way these will fly further is when my technique improves. Off the tee I use what works best for me now and those happen to be high speed overstable discs.

I will say that i know for certain that the FLX/ESP plastics are virtually indestructible so their flight shouldnt change a whole lot after a lot of use. WHich is definitely good if u want consistency. I really wish i had an Xcal in FLX plastic. I'm always afraid that after minimal wear and tear the Star ones i have will become too understable.

I still think lots of players new and old still look for that "magic disc" so they buy according to flight ratings & assume those ratings will transcend onto the course. "this is it, this is the one i need" instead of working on their game.

Innova probably markets better. But both companies basically offer 85% of the same discs. So being staunchly opposed to one over the other is sort of ridiculous.

Texconsinite

01-06-2009, 05:43 PM

I really think it depends on the person and what fits them the best. I played a round today with a guy who absolutely loved his new Innova Kite. It worked great for him, but I know it would just turn into a roller for me if I tried to use it. Innova has far more models to choose from, I admit, which means that if you have Innova discs already, its easier, thanks to their helpful rating guide on their website, to grab another Innova disc that does XYZ more or less than your current discs. I think Innova is "winning" the hi-tech long-range driver war right now, with a barrage of new discs at higher and higher speeds, discraft has instead been coming out with new midranges, and SS versions of its discs for people who throw less than 450 ft. At the same time, Innova doesnt have an answer to FLX or cryZtal plastic. Discraft also doesnt seem to change their molds over time, unlike innova, so you have a better idea of what you are getting.

discflinger

01-06-2009, 05:45 PM

CE is totally magic...throw it if you got it.

cc0049

01-06-2009, 05:54 PM

By bag is about 40% Discraft and 60% Innova. It used to be all Innova and that has gradually changed. I can see it eventually becoming all Discraft. I usually will give a new disc a try and then keep it in my bag as long as I continue to like it...replacing one that I don't use much any more. That is how the Innova has gradually been replaced. I don't think that one is necessarily better than the other...it all depends on what works for you. If I had to pick one or the other to use exclusively, though, I'd choose Discraft because I really like the ESP plastic. If you don't use Discraft much, I recommend getting at least one of the following to give a try: Force, Flick, Predator, or an Avenger SS.
I still can't imagine going out without having a destroyer, valkyrie, beast, and teebird from Innova with me.

ShaZaun

01-07-2009, 01:00 AM

I mainly have Innova because their everywhere...... I recently got a flash online and really like it but it is tough for me not to use my beast (fav disc).... I noticed my putters are all millenium.... which proves if it's plastic I'll throw it.

atl scott

01-07-2009, 01:38 AM

my loyalty is to my score not any disc company.

Well said.

I love innova's long range drivers (destroyer, boss) and can't see myself ever throwing anything else. Also, I don't know of any disc that is as good as a beat-in dx roc. I love FLX plastic (have a drone) and would probably investigate more Discraft if they put out more discs in this plastic.

One of the coolest things I've seen is at the IDGC in Appling, GA. At the pro shop they have a box of 30 or so discs you can take out back and throw around to test them out. I really liked the FLX meteor when I threw it and would probably buy one if I hadn't spent all my $$ on star bosses :eek:

Rbuzz9

01-07-2009, 10:32 AM

Newcomers will always tend to buy "classic discs" or old standbyes that they hear or read good things about. I cant' rattle all of the discs off but i'd say Innova definitely has a significant edge in Discs considered to be classic. People will go out and buy a Teebird over something like a Discraft Wildcat or a Gateway assassin since they hear a lot more about Teebirds than the other two. In time more DC molds will probably become "Classics". Right now the Buzzz is giving the Roc a run for it's money in the midrange dept.- even though the Wasp is more like a Roc.

Texconsinite

01-07-2009, 11:27 AM

Also, The new Nebula (2008 Ace Race disc), is a fantastic midrange as well, different than anything I've found that Innova has put out. Banger GT as well.

BENFTS

01-07-2009, 11:47 AM

you should check out the pulse if you like the wraith. super fast and stable into the wind.

Hamilton

01-07-2009, 01:22 PM

you should check out the pulse if you like the wraith. super fast and stable into the wind.

i wouldn't say the wraith is very good to throw INTO the wind...LOL

i would def avoid throwing it into any kind of headwind, unless you are WANTING it to go way right (RHBH)

thatguy

01-07-2009, 01:39 PM

I do agree with one of the previous posts saying that the innova molds don't seem as consistent. I recently had to replace my roc and the new one I got doesn't feel or fly a bit like my "old faithfull" one did even though it's the same weight. That being said, Innova is the only disc I carry. I have thrown many disccrafts and found that they just don't suit me as well. It all comes down to personal preference. I've found that if you start with one brand you tend to stick with it.

BENFTS

01-07-2009, 01:39 PM

BENFTS

01-07-2009, 01:45 PM

About the Wraith
INNOVA's newest addition to the Distance Driver line. It is our longest and fastest Distance Driver to date. It is a stable flyer that performs predictably well in the wind with speed, glide and accuracy. This is our most durable Distance Driver in Pro plastic. This disc performs remarkably well when thrown at less than full speed as well as at full speed. The Pro Wraith is an excellent side arm disc. It is available in weights from 170 to 175 grams. Endorsed by 12-time World Champion, Ken Climo.

BENFTS

01-07-2009, 01:55 PM

A long, skinny 9 holes out and 9 in. Water hazards (lake, ponds, streams) make it a 'Pebble Beach' course. Multiple tees and a practice basket. Great views of San Francisco. Winds off bay can be treacherous.

atl scott

01-07-2009, 02:48 PM

Also, The new Nebula (2008 Ace Race disc), is a fantastic midrange as well, different than anything I've found that Innova has put out. Banger GT as well.

I think the nebula flies a lot like a BB Aviar. It is a lower profile disc though which I think makes it easier to throw harder.

atl scott

01-07-2009, 02:50 PM

I do agree with one of the previous posts saying that the innova molds don't seem as consistent. I recently had to replace my roc and the new one I got doesn't feel or fly a bit like my "old faithfull" one did even though it's the same weight.

This is probably not because the mold is inconsistent. This is probably due to disc wear which means that a disc that has been thrown a lot (especially a DX roc) will fly differently than a brand new one. This, in my opinion, is a good feature of the roc.

There are also several different molds of roc (which is not one inconsistent mold) so make sure you bought the same one (rancho, san marino, ontario).

Hamilton

01-07-2009, 03:05 PM

DID I SAY THE WRAITH WAS GREAT HEADWIND DRIVER? i simply suggested the pulse because of its very similar rim size and its speed. also note that the wraith is a great disc to throw if you don't throw it flat, its called a hyzer release and this will snap the disc flight into a very overstable flight pattern helping it fight through the wind. not that i am an expert but i do play in one of the windiest courses in the US in Berkeley's aquatic park.

wow calm down man...you compared the wraith to the pulse, and said it was good into the wind...sorry if i connected the wrong dots...that being said, you can make any disc not turn over if you put enough hyzer angle on it...i was going off the disc thrown flat...

atl scott

01-07-2009, 03:11 PM

you can make any disc not turn over if you put enough hyzer angle on it...

...and throw them really really soft/smooth.

BENFTS

01-07-2009, 04:03 PM

sorry to come off upset. i just simply want the correct advice up on the boards. Pro's and Am's use the wraith as a headwind driver all the time, i just don't think that it is fair to use any one persons opinion as a standard. i meant no offense by my previous posts, just wanted to provide some backing for my reply. :)http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Hamilton

01-07-2009, 04:13 PM

No prob...i would think pro's and am's would already know this info, i didn't want noobs to get a wraith thinking it will be awesome into wind, then not be able to keep it from flipping...

discflinger

01-07-2009, 04:44 PM

A noob would probably have a hard time getting it to go straight, let alone flip it.

Riley

01-07-2009, 05:15 PM

A noob would probably have a hard time getting it to go straight, let alone flip it.

My thoughts exactly.

Hamilton

01-08-2009, 08:16 AM

i had one when first throwing RHBH and it flipped on me all the time, but i guess that was just really bad technique...

Rbuzz9

01-08-2009, 09:59 AM

I do agree with one of the previous posts saying that the innova molds don't seem as consistent. I recently had to replace my roc and the new one I got doesn't feel or fly a bit like my "old faithfull" one did even though it's the same weight. .

were u using a DX roc? i think one thing is that unless you want to Spend $30+ on a Champion Roc you can only get a DX or a KC pro roc. These will both break in quickly and become understable (especially the DX).
I'm not sure this is a matter of manufacturing inconsistency or just the plastics which the Roc is available arent as
durable as the plastics the Buzzz is available in for reasonable price.

u will notice a difference going from any beat disc to a brand new one.

So you can save $18 and get a Z Buzzz instead of a Champ Roc

Ninja_Disc_Master

01-08-2009, 10:12 AM

The bulk of my discs are Innova, but again it is due to the availability of Discraft and other brands. I wouldn't have even cared until I found a Discraft Elite Z Xpress driver which is by far the best driver I've thrown to date. This prompted me to order other highly touted Discraft discs such as the comet and buzz and I WAS NOT DISAPPOINTED! I still love my Valk and Cobra, but the Discraft discs are what I'm moving towards for sure.

leathercash

01-08-2009, 04:34 PM

The bulk of my discs are Innova, but again it is due to the availability of Discraft and other brands. I wouldn't have even cared until I found a Discraft Elite Z Xpress driver which is by far the best driver I've thrown to date.

Totally,that express is awesome! I just started throwing RHBH over the last month and thats what I reach for pretty often. The only thing I don't like is it's a bit to understable which forces me to release it nice and level,and thats kinda hard to do for a noob! Express rocs!:D

DSCJNKY

01-20-2009, 10:25 PM

Unless your sponsored... play with what works.
As for me, I'm from So-Cal... and so is Innova. And since Innova does so much for disc golf, especially in So-Cal, I'm loyal.
DSCJNKY

flash86

01-21-2009, 12:45 AM

I'm an Innova guy all the way. I love the feel of their plastics. I trust their flight ratings. Discs are very reliable and predictable over time. Very accessible in the marketplace. And I'm from So Cal too and Innova is a very good sponsor of local tournaments so I'm loyal as well.

solomon.trenton

01-21-2009, 06:23 AM

i only have three disc that arent innova. a buzzz, an epic and a quest driver.

taxman

01-21-2009, 08:27 AM

i mainly have innova discs. but really the main reason is because that is all that is sold locally. if i go to either of the local sporting goods stores all they have on the shelf is innova. so by default i buy another innova disc. i did buy a couple new/used discs from a guy at the local course. i think he buys in bulk and sells them. i got a discraft putter and a cyclone. they are nice. i just got a Buzzz for xmas and i'm eager to try that out. i hadn't tried a roc either yet and i got one of those right at the end of the season. so this spring i'll be practicing with a fresh view of both discs. it seems like people prefer whichever they started with so i'm interested to see which one wins me over.

i think the big things in innovas favor are 1)how easy it is to find innova discs at stores, and 2) the sheer number of innova discs to choose from. they give you that little sheet with each disc that shows the other discs and how they fly, it just suckers me in to getting another disc from them.

Poke'Disc - gotta get 'em all!

Hamilton

01-21-2009, 01:43 PM

i noticed on Sunday when i was at the local PIAS, they now carry a decent selection of Discraft, whereas previously they only had innova...encouraging...

AdamH

01-21-2009, 03:09 PM

The only non-Innova discs I have in my bag are a Z Buzz and a Q Sentinel and I couldn't play a round without them.

_.-Dut-._

01-21-2009, 08:35 PM

Innova: Wraith and Teebird are irreplaceable for me.

I also have a Orc, T-Rex, Sidewinder and Pig..however I could replace these with something from discraft if needed.

Discraft: Predator and Buzzz are must haves.

I also carry a Wasp, but its not a neccesity.

Gateway: Wizard (best putter on market)

JHern

01-22-2009, 04:02 AM

Innova are nice molds, I have a majority of them in my bag.

But, the plastic is not always as good as other companies. The DX plastic feels wonderful in the hands but beats in after only a few rounds. The star plastic is supposed to be their best, but even this is very inconsistent from batch to batch...some are hard and smooth offering little grip and others are grippier but more readily beat in. Also, some runs have changes in shape (e.g., some are domey and others are not, even it they are supposed to be the same disc).

Discraft ESP plastic is pretty sweet. Let's see Innova try to top that, and get their plastic running more consistently, and then I'll tip my hat to them as the top disc maker. Discraft is still up there.

Also, lots of other good (legendary, even) discs from other makers. Order some online if you can't get them in your local stores.

lewisville150

01-22-2009, 07:13 AM

I carry a mixed bag but Discraft are my go to discs. This came about because initially I could not figure of the ratings for Innova discs. Discraft is easier to figure out when you are new to the sport. I do throw Innova but irregularly and only those with similar performance to Discaft. I am rather pleased that I can select comparable discs from Discraft and Innova - like the XS and Teebird - and not see a significant difference in performance.

Agree with JHern about the ESP plastic. You can beat that stuff to death and it barely scratches.

Hamilton

01-22-2009, 08:20 AM

I carry a mixed bag but Discraft are my go to discs. This came about because initially I could not figure of the ratings for Innova discs. Discraft is easier to figure out when you are new to the sport.

i was the opposite, i thought the innova rating always made more sense to me...i don't know if being an engineer has anything to do with that though...

zensuit

01-22-2009, 08:23 AM

i was the opposite, i thought the innova rating always made more sense to me...i don't know if being an engineer has anything to do with that though...

With all due respect, being an engineer has everything to do with everything!

jgentry

01-22-2009, 10:22 AM

These threads always crack me up. You people that are company biased that are not sponsered are crazy. The simpe fact is every disc company has some really nice discs. Some have a lot more then others, but that shouldn't make you only carry there discs when there is something better from a different company.

Here's my bag

Driver:
Speed demon clear evolution (gateway) for spike hizers and trick shots
star Xcaliber (innova) Headwind and long hizers
Champ Boss (innova) max D when control isn't required
Pro Destroyer (innova) Max D control driver
ESP Surge (Discraft) Long S drivers and long straight shots
Opt Riot (Lat 64) Same as surge but shorter
Z Flash (discraft) Hizer flips, Lazer line drives, Max D turnover drives
Quater K II (discwing) Roller, massize tailwind atleast 30mph

Fairway Driver
Champ Firebird (innova) hizers, control drives, headwind, thumbers, tommies
Champ Teebird (innova) control driver
E Sabre (Gateway) Control straight shots, use it a ton on wooded courses
QJLS (Millennium) 70% straight shots and turnover

Midranges
Champ Gater (innova) Short hizers, trick shots
Champ Gummy Spider (innova) main mid, hizers, straight shots
Clear E Element (gateway) tailwing bombs, control mid range, turnover mid
Opto Core (Lat 64) turnover, roller

Putters
S Magic (gateway) anny putts, long straight putts
S Voodoo (gateway) straight approaches, jump putts
S Chalky Wizard (gateway) annything inside 30ft

So I am carring 20 discs and have 6 different companies in my bag. Innova makes more discs and has more good discs then any other company. But the other companies have a few discs that are better for certain shots then what innova offers

Innova - Destroyer, firbird, teebird (these are discs I feel innova makes that other companies have no answer for)

Discraft- Z flash, probably the best driver for the average disc golfer, period. No other company can touch it. More people would throw straighter and farther with this disc then any other.

Discwing - the quater K II is the easiest disc to throw long rollers with out of the bag ever. Just try to stop it from rolling!!

Gateway- best group of putters in the best putter plastic. I think the sabre is also extremely un appreciated, very straight and very controllable.

Lat 64 - not there yet, but I think the Riot is extremely nice and there new plastic is a huge upgrade. It is as good as anyone elses.

Millenium- well, they are pretty much innova so they don't count.

ERicJ

01-22-2009, 11:14 AM

With all due respect, being an engineer has everything to do with everything!
+1 :cool:

lewisville150

01-22-2009, 02:26 PM

+1 :cool:

A question for the engineers - are you happy working for us business types? :) Yep, now about those TPS reports.

Here's my story - when I first started the game, no one taught me anything. They shoved a disc in my hand and told me to throw it. Everything hyzered left no matter the disc or manufacturer. I had no basis to compare speed, turn, glide or fade. Once I got serious about it, Discraft made the most sense. A zero rated disc should go straight, right? So that's where I started. Since that time, I have found I like to dance with the one who brought me. Additionally, information I found on this site led to better understanding which led to experimentation which led to a better game for me. For that information I thank the contributing members on this site.

Ryan P.

01-22-2009, 02:48 PM

discraft=better plastic. you cannot beat discraft's plastic. It's just ridiculous. And I even like their discs a little better sometimes. But Innova is cheaper, and I know more of what the disc will do before I buy it. Once you get to understand what innova means by the ratings and figure out what discs have different molds and what those different molds are and what they do, I know what that disc will do even before I throw it. Discraft isn't bad with this-in fact their rating system is quite accurate. But it's not in-depth enough. For that reason, I'll take Innova straight out of the store, but if i can throw discs beforehand and they are the same price, i'll usually go with discraft.

Hamilton

01-22-2009, 03:31 PM

A question for the engineers - are you happy working for us business types? :) Yep, now about those TPS reports.

my boss is an engineer...his boss is an engineer too...i see a pattern...

swellerdiscgolf

01-23-2009, 10:13 PM

I use all brands. The ones I've thrown from Discraft seem to be pretty straight flyers, but Innova seem to be very predictable.

For my drivers nothing seems to beat Quest. One of my buddies use to throw an Inferno until he started to turn it over. He gave it to another friend who throws is straight as an arrow. I had a Raging Inferno (until it went into the swamp) that was a really good flyer with a very slight fade at the end. I picked up a new Scream, and it flies nice and straight at the field, but is a magnet for trees at the course.

Mids and putting are Discraft - Buzzz rules!

Innova discs are all over my bag, drivers, mids, and putters.

tbird888

05-30-2009, 10:34 PM

To all the people that won't try Discraft because their ratings aren't detailed enough, realize that you WON'T get better throwing every throw flat and at the same speed. Ignore anyone who tells you different. Discs will do different things with different releases and different speeds. Those ratings only apply to one type of throw. As you get to know the game better, you'll realize what I'm saying.

If you can hold different company's discs, you'll realize that each plastic feels different as well. It was said earlier that Innova's Star plastic is inconsistent from mold to mold. I think that's true. Anyone that wants to tell me different can come to my house and feel the Star SL I have that is incredibly durable but slippery and a Star Tee-Bird that is grippy but already ruined because it's hit maybe thirty trees. You won't find that from Discraft's ESP plastic. It's soft and grippy, while being incredibly durable - every mold, every disc. The FLX plastic is even better. Innova's Champion plastic feels great when new but loses that feeling quickly. Discraft's Elite Z isn't as good new as the Champion plastic but is consistently like new years later.

That being said, I have only thrown Innova and Discraft but am not opposed to other brands. I love my Innova Groove but hate that I have to replace it once it hits a tree - it loses its' stability very quickly. I love my Valk and Tee-Bird. I'm finding though that I'm throwing my Force and Flick a lot more. And I wouldn't leave home without my Buzzz and Banger GT.

Unless you're sponsored by one company or supporting a local brand, you'd be a fool not to explore every option possible. Thinking you've got the best without seriously trying the other options makes no sense.

billnchristy

05-30-2009, 10:48 PM

I don't have any discraft yet but I will probably get some in the future...problem is right now I have others that are close but other brands so it is getting harder to find a need.

I have:

Fairway drivers:
Innova Gazelle DX
Innova Gazelle Pro

Midrange:
DGA Shockwave
Lat 64 Core

Putter:
Gateway Magic
Gateway Wizard

I want to try a daredevil and some more Latitude stuff.

Three Putt

05-30-2009, 10:51 PM

I want to try a daredevil and some more Latitude stuff.DO IT! Get a Striker NOW!

fretgod321

05-30-2009, 10:51 PM

I own nothing but Innova except for my Gateway S Wizard and an Aerobie Epic (which i found after someone just left it in a basket, thing sucks)

XxInnovaxX

05-31-2009, 09:32 PM

i carry all kinds...but probably

75% Innova
15% Discraft
10% Millenium

nearly all my drivers are innova
all midranges are innova except for flx buzz(which is rarely used)
Long straight or turnover shots i use millenium
and for Putting i use my "X" Putter

Midnightbiker

05-31-2009, 09:43 PM

Here is how my bag breaks down:

17 discs:

10 Innova

4 Discraft

3 Millenium

I am not brand loyal, I just go for discs that work for me.

solomon.trenton

05-31-2009, 09:48 PM

I am not brand loyal, I just go for discs that work for me.

agreed, but most of my discs are innova because they are so easy to find and i like the company. i guess it all depends what is sold around you.

Midnightbiker

05-31-2009, 10:06 PM

agreed, but most of my discs are innova because they are so easy to find and i like the company. i guess it all depends what is sold around you.

90% of my discs were either bought or traded online. My discs are rarely store bought. You get better deals online and in trades.

volklgirl

05-31-2009, 10:11 PM

I started with all Innova, but am moving farther and farther to Discraft as I play more. They just seem to feel better and fly further for me.

Most cherished
Innova: Destroyer, Monarch, Valkyrie, Sidewinder, Banshee, Eagle, TL, Leopard, Dragon, Aero
Discraft: Wildcat, 150 X Surge, Flick, Tracker, Impact, Storm, Banger GT
Millenium: JLS (Innova)
DGA: Superdrive XL (Discraft)
Quest: The Wheel

In the mail and on it's way: Buzzz Lite (Woot!! :D)

Midnightbiker

05-31-2009, 10:24 PM

solomon.trenton

05-31-2009, 10:32 PM

The Wheel is cool, but don't take it out during a tournament.

why is that?

Midnightbiker

05-31-2009, 10:44 PM

why is that?

Its not PDGA approved, so you can't use it in a sanctioned event.

solomon.trenton

05-31-2009, 10:46 PM

Its not PDGA approved, so you can't use it in a sanctioned event.

oh well then i guess that makes sense:rolleyes:

Midnightbiker

05-31-2009, 10:49 PM

oh well then i guess that makes sense:rolleyes:

Well, you could use it, till someone called you on it. Really depends on the group I guess. I had a guy warn me in a tournament about a foot fault on my mini during a putt.

SomeChump

05-31-2009, 10:50 PM

Yup. The crush is pretty similar. The avenger is similar too, but probably more stable.

Way more stable. Especially in elite Z.

ERicJ

06-01-2009, 03:36 AM

The Wheel is cool, but don't take it out during a tournament.
Not just "don't take it out", but don't even carry it... otherwise it's a two stroke penalty:

http://www.pdga.com/rules/80201-discs-used-in-play

SpringDgLover

06-01-2009, 04:43 AM

I keep waiting to see someone pull a Turbo Putt or Wheel out so I can call them on it. That would be awesome. I would be like "ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!" and then I'd feel really good about myself. Then I would laugh and say "let me see those I wanna try".

roadtripstuff

06-01-2009, 08:54 AM

I carry 20 discs in my bag, all of which are Innova. Use to throw some discraft, but just gave up on it. Anything that DC makes innova already has it. Also, I noticed a lot of people saying that the buzzz just feels better than the Roc for them. Have you tried the Cro, if not, you should.

DiscJunkie

06-01-2009, 09:48 AM

I carry Discraft, Innova, Millenium, Gateway, whatever works,
I tend to like the feel of ESP plastic, but it's just a preference.
I have almost 200 discs, a lot of different makes, plastics, designs, etc.
I just throw what works for me.
I throw an XS instead of a Teebird, but I throw a Roc instead of a Buzzz.
I throw an Avenger SS or Stratus instead of a RoadRunner, but a Magic instead of an Aviar.
Whatever works, baby.

Neophyte

06-01-2009, 09:56 AM

I carry mostly Innova, love their Star and Pro plastic. BUT I also would be lost without my Discraft Buzz (FLX) and XL (ESP).

John Rock

06-01-2009, 11:36 AM

In the 80's and early 90's it was a lot easier to try every disc made. There just weren't that many. There used to be just one type of plastic (basically) until Millenium started up. I have tried a lot of different discs, many different manufacturers, and lots of plastics. With the way companies are popping up and offering different discs and plastics, it gets more and more difficult to find the right one for you. Keep trying, keep flying, keep having fun and you're doing it right.

I throw almost all Innova, excluding my Wham-O putters.

The only numbers I look at when trying to purchase a disc is price and weight.:D

zenbot

06-01-2009, 11:41 AM

When I was starting out our monthlies paid out in plastic...and there was only Innova. I haven't strayed since.

DGA is really supportive of our club. I would like to start throwing their stuff more.

Three Putt

06-01-2009, 12:55 PM

I throw almost all Innova, excluding my Wham-O putters.86 Softie? Or are you going pre-old school with a 71 mold or something like that?

John Rock

06-01-2009, 05:46 PM

86 mold Softie. They're old school enough, yet still very effective. didn't they come out before the Roc (classic Roc)?

There are several other Wham-O molds in the collection box. Someday I'll take some pictures of all of my collectibles.

A.Mutt

06-01-2009, 05:59 PM

I have more Discraft discs but my bag is fairly evenly split between Discraft, Innova, and Gateway. I've also got 2 DGA discs I like and I used to have a Millinium disc I miss.

Yes every manufacturer is going to have a disc another manufacturer also has something similar for. I think its silly at best to think that because someone is an originator that would mean they do it better. I prescribe to the philosophy that all paths are worth taking a few steps on. So I try whatever I can get my hands on and keep in my bag what works best for me.
Hell I carry a Roc right next to a Buzzz cause they both work well for me, and guess what ... turns out that being a popular mid doesn't mean you fly like another popular mid.

Dillon_Gourley

06-01-2009, 06:14 PM

I have all Innova disc except I have a 150g z flick, 2 black soft challenger putters, 1st run blue esp wasp (on my wall) , players cup stamp sparkle z force (on my wall) , 07,08 ace race disc (brand new not thrown) and a supercolor surge tournament stamp (on my wall)

Hell I carry a Roc right next to a Buzzz cause they both work well for me, and guess what ... turns out that being a popular mid doesn't mean you fly like another popular mid.

I don't know anyone who carries both, you're either a Roc kind of guy or Buzzz, but not both :)

Three Putt

06-01-2009, 11:34 PM

86 mold Softie. They're old school enough, yet still very effective. didn't they come out before the Roc (classic Roc)?The 86 mold was pre-Roc for sure. I'm pretty fuzzy about when the Softies came out. I didn't get one until '93 and I don't think they had been out all that long before that, maybe a couple of years or so. It's hard to remember since the mold says '84 on it. It was way after '84 that the Softies came out.

John Rock

06-02-2009, 09:13 AM

Remember the first 86 molds? Pretty stiff plastic, but they were good for distance for their time. Seems like the hot stamp had 10 or 12 86's printed in a circle. Those were the first I saw, then the black Softies came out in '87 or '88. I used to mark my Softies by blacking out the "f", turning it into a "So tie".

BrotherDave

06-02-2009, 03:08 PM

I don't know anyone who carries both, you're either a Roc kind of guy or Buzzz, but not both :)

He's not alone. My new ESP Buzzz gets along quite well with my beat to hell DX Roc.

A.Mutt

06-02-2009, 03:43 PM

I don't know anyone who carries both, you're either a Roc kind of guy or Buzzz, but not both :)

what can I say ... I defy conventional wisdom. :cool:

The Buzzz gets more love than the Roc but not a whole lot more.
I'm also a heavy mid-range user, Teeing off with a mid about as frequently if not more
than with a driver.

geographyhorse

06-02-2009, 04:11 PM

I mainly use Discraft... funny thing is, people here talk about how all they can find is Innova, but I started playing in Michigan and Discraft was the easiest to find there for me. I like the Innova Valkerie and there is a reason why everybody LOVES the Roc, but the ESP Buzz keeps a more consistent flight longer IMHO. I recently won an Innova Monarch, so I'll give that a whirl.

My bag currently consists of all Discraft.
Drivers- Avenger SS, Tracker, Surge
Mids- Buzz, Comet, Drone
Putters- Banger GT, Soft Magnet

I used to throw the Meteor, but I pulled it out in favor of the Comet, easier to approach with.

geographyhorse

06-02-2009, 04:15 PM

what can I say ... I defy conventional wisdom. :cool:

The Buzzz gets more love than the Roc but not a whole lot more.
I'm also a heavy mid-range user, Teeing off with a mid about as frequently if not more
than with a driver.

I tend to be more of a mid player as well.... it's much easier to get consistent control and my scores drop as a result. I'll gladly take par with two consistent throws and a putt over a bad drive into some crap, a rescue shot, and a difficult long or blocked putt.

A.Mutt

06-02-2009, 04:34 PM

I'll gladly take par with two consistent throws and a putt over a bad drive into some crap, a rescue shot, and a difficult long or blocked putt.

Amen.:D

Disc Dog

06-02-2009, 11:01 PM

I have almost all Innova, but I have been branching out and trying to buy from some of the smaller companies. (i.e. gateway and millenium) and Ive also bought a few discraft to try out. For me if I like how it flies, Im throwing it ... my loyalty is to my score not any disc company. ;)

This is where I come from also.

One thing that has happened lately is with my go to putter. I have used Aviar, Aero, and thrown a few others to try. But nothing beats the DC Challenger for me. I still use the Aero for long putts (over 50 feet) and approach shots but inside of that nothing does better than my Challenger.

sweeper

06-03-2009, 10:44 AM

I really like this kind of thread. I'm always curious about what people throw and why. My area is very innova heavy, but I throw a LOT of discraft. They just seem to feel better in my hands and it seems that they have a better choice when it comes to slower, less stable discs. I throw FH and BH to about 310.

Breakdown:
Drivers
2 Discraft (for FH)
4 rogues
2 lightning discs

Mids
2 or 3 molds all DC

Putters
1 DC mold
1 Innova mold (for wind)
1 other mold

That being said, I am pretty sure that I could play just as well with all innova. I like wraiths for FH, rocs are fine as mids and I'm sure I could find an understable innova putter if I put my mind to it... Dart? Beat up Sonic?

Rbuzz9

06-03-2009, 11:02 AM

This is a bit random but why the hell does my FLX Surge turnover way easeir than a Tbird?

milow369

06-03-2009, 11:51 AM

Innova dominates my bag from putter (Aviar PnA) to mid (DX roc/DX stingray) to control drivers (CE Valk/CE T-bird/CE Leopard/CE Eagle) to long range (Star Wraiths and 1st run bosses). I like the DC tracker for overstable (shorter than long distance) shots. I also have a Surge FLX at the end of my bag which is rarely thrown.

I love Innova molds but I am still torqued at the decision to phase out the CE Line (Sure they've given plenty of reasons why they did it, but still I feel that they discovered a plastic that was near indestructible - good for the consumer but bad for their bottom line, so they "improved" it with a new line) Maybe they'll decide to do a re-release someday (perhaps they'll "stumble" onto the original recipe and have just enough product to release a super limited run of all of our favorites) Let the bidding begin.

I also find something inherently slimy about the way that Innova releases their runs, the "nuances" that are phased in and out which create artificial demand with those who use their product is B.S. Case in point, the first run Boss. I bought 1 for $15 bucks new when first released 6 months ago, now I am looking at $30-$40 slightly used if I am lucky. I didn't know when I first picked one up if I would like it, be able to throw it, etc. The 2nd run Boss is totally different. Why should I have to buy two discs "in case I like it"? In a couple of years I won't be able to find them, let alone replace this disc if lost. I think that this practice pushes people to buy multiples at the time of purchase, knowing that the future of the disc is questionable. Slimy, indeed.

Now half of the discs that I have learned to throw and have built my game on are irreplaceable. I find, I rarely throw my favorite plastic for fear of losing it and the reality that I will never be able to replace it. So, what's the point? I am just hauling around an overweight golfbag.

That being said as much as I try to gravitate towards DC and other brands I end up coming back to Innova. I am trying to modify my game to Innova discs that I can pull off the shelf, play, throw into the woods, and go pick up another. I.e., limit the number of molds I purchase, scale down plastic to DX molds and star molds only. I suppose that they'll soon be "improving" the star wraith next, so stock up on em. They'll never mess with the DX Rancho Roc, right? they wouldn't do that...

Yes a rant, and quite possibly what will push me away from Innova someday. Until then, enjoy those Teebirds.

SomeChump

06-03-2009, 12:08 PM

Since when is a Valk a control driver? Last I checked it held the world record for distance. Way too much high-speed turn to ever be a control/fairway driver IMHO. When I think of a control driver, I think of a TL. Is it easier to control than a wraith or a groove? I suppose so, but that hardly makes it a control driver, at least until we start calling Teebirds midranges.

jwk0522

06-05-2009, 05:51 PM

I have always liked Innova because when I first started playing everyone I knew used Innova so those are the discs I have become familiar with, everything in my bag is Innova but I would not mind trying out a few Discraft discs, I have heard a lot of good things about the Flick

one19

08-25-2009, 03:38 AM

.

To me, it's all about the feel and the result - which I think go hand in hand.

I like the Pro-D Plastic of Discraft over Innova's DX -

Although different in feel, I like both Star & ESP...

I'm pretty simple & straightforward, and I pack light.

My assortment:

Innova BEAST

Discraft AVENGER SS

Discraft 150 XL

Innova TL

Innova LEOPARD

Innova POLECAT

Gateway WIZARD

I might swap an Innova Valkyrie with the Beast on occasion.

.

I'll pack a Quest DOUBLE D if it's a extremely windy day -

wolito

08-25-2009, 05:39 AM

I sya Innova just because that is what I am used to. Can find these discs anywhere, types of plastics cover all needs and easy to compare with their charts. I have tried other brands, but it is just difficult to leave what is working for you.

El Oso Peligroso

08-25-2009, 12:27 PM

My bag is almost entirely innova because that's all you can buy around here, with the exception of 1 DGA Rogue, which is actually my longest driver so maybe I should try some more DGA stuff.

zenbot

08-25-2009, 12:39 PM

I really haven't really tried much other than Innova. My club used to pay out in Innova plastic at monthlies and they're more readily available at retail establishments. (I do like to hold something before I buy it.)

If anyone insists that I try another company's product please ship your recommendations to:

Erich Schaffer
2518 Seamist Court
Port Hueneme, California
93041

Nick C

08-25-2009, 12:39 PM

Innova seems way too inconsitent in their molds so you could use a disc one year and then a new mold of the same disc will fly completely different. Although I still say use whatever works for you and most times it's probably a mix

mambrose

08-25-2009, 12:55 PM

innova is wayyy better imo...

locuno1

08-25-2009, 12:59 PM

i use what works best mainly a good mix of discraft and innova with the exception of a gateway wizard putter and a millenium QJLS driver.

Vegan Ray

08-25-2009, 01:18 PM

Innova, Discraft, Gateway, Millenium, DGA, Lightning, Latitude 64, Ching, Aerobie, Quest AT, Snap, Vibram, Discwing, Discmania, WhamO, & Black Jax (maybe there are others) ALL make a good product. Decent aerodymanic designs, decent molding, & decent quality control. All have issues with consistency & repeatability, both within a run & (moreso) between different runs, as that is the nature of the beast when injection molding with an ever-changing array of available raw materials.
What really makes one better than any other (in a given person's mind) is how "at home" their discs feel in the hand & how closely they fly compared to how the thrower wants them to fly.

Jethro33

08-25-2009, 02:27 PM

well put Ray...throw what is comfortable and if you are not sponsored than explore all the possibilities.

ovar

08-25-2009, 02:34 PM

I love the discraft and Millennium. The JLS used to be one of my favorite discs tell I lost it. The MRV is my all time favorite mid-range and the LX Elite-Z 1.5 is a great driver.

pokamitch

08-25-2009, 03:22 PM

I have mostly Innova. It is because that was the first plastic I was exposed to by Mr. Shurts' son and we got it cheap. Over the last few yrs, I have been using other brands. Now I only use a Blowfly for putting. I still have an Aviar for pancakes to get outta trouble. Also, I have a Buzz and a Squall that I really love for straight shots and anhyzers. But the other 11 disc I use are Innova with 1 Millenium Express (I hardly throw the Express)

DGWookie

08-25-2009, 04:08 PM

I currently have more Discraft discs than Innova. I play them both, but I like the feel of Discraft's plastic a little more. Even their cheapo Pro-D. One plus of Innova - it seems you can find them at almost every sporting goods store on the planet. I now read that some Walgreens stores carry them. The place I shop for Discraft discs (mostly for the prices) is about 70 miles away. Sure, I could order online, but I like to get my hands on a disc before I buy it. The money I would spend on s&h goes into the gas tank instead and gets me out of the house for the day. New discs + day trip to Fo Co = win win. As for who makes the best disc I'll have to pull an old one out from my dad's arsenal of replies, "I don't think the best has been made yet."

Nick C

08-25-2009, 07:07 PM

Honestly I like everything about discraft better than innova except the availability (which seems to be a big problem as to why more people use Innova). Props to Innova for doing this but it seems like more an more people would use discraft instead if it were more readily available

Haagen-dazs-disc

08-25-2009, 09:40 PM

Innova it's what I got started on, so I got a lot of them. I got one discraft a Pink Magnet.

NovaDiscHead

08-25-2009, 10:33 PM

Lets see....

Innova:
Groove
Monarch
Dart
Orc
Roc
Sidewinder
Stingray

Disc Craft:
Avenger SS
Avenger
Buzz

Adaven

08-25-2009, 10:35 PM

ESP surge and a Buzzz, need I say more.

TalbotTrojan

08-26-2009, 01:32 AM

ESP surge and a Buzzz, need I say more.

Apparently not.

Midnightbiker

08-26-2009, 08:45 AM

Apparently not.

HAHAHA

discgolf757

09-20-2009, 05:50 PM

discraft... the only non discraft disc i have is a champion aviar p&a

SpringDgLover

09-20-2009, 06:48 PM

Discraft because they have best midrange and overstable putters. Innova because they have the best Fairway and Distance Drivers and Gateway because they have the best straight putters. I dont play favorites I just buy the best disc for the job.

DiscJunkie

09-20-2009, 07:58 PM

I dont play favorites I just buy the best disc for the job.

My sentiments exactly.

Huk Finn

09-20-2009, 08:03 PM

DISCRAFT Drone, Reaper and Avenger, the rest Innova

vcadd

10-08-2009, 11:36 AM

The DGA Pro Line Rogue is AWESOME!

BogeyNoMore

10-08-2009, 12:02 PM

I don’t pay any attention. I throw what works. Right now I’ve got Innova, Discraft, Millennium, Gateway and Quest discs in my bag. Unless one of those companies wants to start paying me to use their discs, I’ll keep using what works best regardless of who makes it.

I'm with Three Putt on this (although I'm NOWHERE CLOSE to anyone paying me to use their gear) - I have no disc loyalty. I like what works for me (which is why I have a feeling the JLS will ALWAYS have a place in my bag).

In direct response to the OP:
I used to lean more towards Innova because I thought I understood their numbering scheme better and that it helped me to select the best discs for me. But over the past couple of years, Discraft's stuff has been taking up more and more of my bag one disc at a time, pretty much starting from the inside out: first my Soft Challenger, then Buzzz, Soft APX, then ESP Surge for FH drives and Tommies.

For some reason, I've gotten more consistent results with my Discraft stuff. Could very well be that my technique began to improve a bit at about the same time I started going to those discs. All I know is that they work for me, so I'll stick with 'em.

Although I have nothing against Innova, and still use their stuff, I have a Stalker and a Discraft Misprint deal on the way - you do the math.

mr.smOOOth

10-08-2009, 12:06 PM

Discraft. The Buzzz got me started, now my bag has been taken over by the Darkside.

WillACarpenter

10-08-2009, 12:20 PM

I throw more Discraft on a regular basis, I like their putters 2 out of 3 times...sometimes I like the XD.

I use Innova for specific drivers, because I can control discs according to their flight patterns. I throw a Champ Viking, DX Valkyrie and a Pro Starfire..and I'm playing around with an R-Pro Boss (yes they're as flimsy as you've heard...but they've got some GO)

My "default" drivers are the XL (sometimes, currently my dad carries it) and ALL the time my Z Stalker. I love that disc.

I tend to have more Innova because they're carried a LOT MORE around here, also their information on their discs is better, though you're dx plastic is trash even compared to D plastic by discraft...but I throw it too.

I also have some Quest stuff and some Lightning stuff, I'm no snob.

I bought a crush on eBay by putting in a TINY bid and just randomly winning, it's a nice dye with a sweet hotstamp..which I didn't even notice when I bid on it. So that's a plus, but I haven't played with it yet.

I also have a Z Surge SS that is just too new to fly right for me, but I haven't been playing it...so it's not getting broken in...but I have too many discs so I just thinned out the bag. Carrying 7-9 discs gets me through ANY situation, including fading sun and water.

\/\/

Chiefklondog

05-25-2010, 07:35 PM

Hey,
First off, my bag consists comepletly of Innova discs. I am open to trying everything but like most people I was introduced to Innova because of how easy they were to find and have stuck with them because I know what they do. Also i recently ordered some Discraft discs and they are in the mail so I hope I will like a few of them, and perhaps get more in the future.

Also, after reading a lot of post, many people complained about not buying Discraft discs just because they didnt want to pay shipping when they could just find Innova in the store. The easy solution.... discgolfcenter.com. Its a site with almost every disc I have read about in every plastic (assuming it is in stock) and if you chose the default shipping it is free shipping. Hope that helps some of you! :)

Finally I have a big question to pose to everyone that I hope they can answer. I have read a lot of places, and there really just are not good answers on this topic. Unlike most people, I throw forehand on my drives almost exclusively, only relaying on my awful backhand if the hole truly forces me to do so. I do not however have any problems with distance, I have played disc golf for less then a year now (although I have been a very big ultimate player for a long time) and my forehand drives are averaging around 400 feet, which I feel is pretty good for someone as new as me :). That being said the discs in my bag that I rely on to throw my forehands are:
Innova - Xcaliber (Champion, Star)
Innova - Boss (Champion)
Even with these heavy overstable discs, I often find myself throwing hard enough to turn them so they are just near my limit of the discs I like. This being said, can anyone suggest discs and plastics from other brands that follow in these super over stable footprints and their amazing distance and speed? I would love to try them all out but I am just not sure where to even begin.

Thanks in advance!

KJDog19

05-25-2010, 09:37 PM

Variety of discs: Innova
Better plastics: Discraft
Consistency between runs: Discraft
Better Putters: Discraft
Better Mids: Discraft
Better Fairway drivers: Innova
Better Distance drivers: Innova

Overall, I prefer Discraft. Plus they are located in Michigan, so I feel great about supporting a local business.

*All of this is based on my honest opinion.*

Animage

05-25-2010, 10:21 PM

I throw whatever disc helps me have more fun.

chuckdisc

05-25-2010, 10:25 PM

I throw whatever disc helps me have more fun.

Same here:D....
....mostly Innova helps me have more fun..

Animage

05-25-2010, 10:27 PM

Same here:D....
....mostly Innova helps me have more fun..

Right now, I'll agree. I made a pact to keep everything in my bag under speed 7, and only Innova helps me do that :D

erock216

05-25-2010, 10:41 PM

bodeankane

05-25-2010, 11:06 PM

TRY A LAT 64 HALO, OR A DISCRAFT NUKE. HEY IF YOU CAN HIT 400' THATS COOL BUT CAN YOU CONTROL YOUR DISC? I PLAY IN CA AND I HAVE NEVER HAD TO HIT 400' ON MY DRIVE. DO YOU WANT TO BUT PLASTIC DOWN FIELD OR PUT IT NEXT TO CHAINS?.HEY UNTIL YOU GET IT IN YOUR HAND WHO KNOWS. IF YOU WANT OVERSTABLE GO DISCRAFT CRUSH .

craftsman

05-25-2010, 11:08 PM

Stop yelling

volklgirl

05-25-2010, 11:13 PM

Yeah....I just PMd him.

sloppydisc

05-25-2010, 11:45 PM

Right now, I'll agree. I made a pact to keep everything in my bag under speed 7, and only Innova helps me do that :D

Latitude 64 - Core, Fuse, Sinus, Spike, Pure

MVP - Ion

Give some of them a try. I live and die with my Core, Ion and Fuse right now. I throw a Cro or Wasp for certain shots, but those three are my horses, and make or break me.

bikinjack

05-25-2010, 11:49 PM

leppard

05-26-2010, 06:01 AM

Mostly Innova because that is what I started with.

Chiefklondog

05-26-2010, 08:15 AM

Hey thanks, I will try some of those out. And ya at 400+ my control starts to go down a fair bit, but at 400-360 ish range I have been able to get my discs to follow the paths I want and land within easy putting range of the baskets. ....Now if only i was good at putting... haha

JoeBen13

11-09-2011, 07:56 PM

I use everything Innova, except for the exception of the Elite Z Buzzz. I just like the feel of it a lot more than the Roc. but other than that, I just prefer Innova mainly because I trust their rating sytem a little better and I Love Star plastic, its just so durable. Plus, they have the Wraith!

Absolutely agree with the elite Z buzz everything I throw is innova minus my buzzz. But I like the way the buzz feels compared to the rocs or the spider which I've thrown since I've started. But nothing beats innovas boss or Vulcan or even the Karamazov when it comes down to it. Plus innova makes some of the best plastics out there.

Jtrain

11-15-2011, 07:02 PM

I like to throw innova for distance drivers but mid rangers i love my Buzzz Z and for putter is Innova Aviar I guess I like innova

Mike C

11-15-2011, 09:38 PM

Only mold from either company permanently in my bag is a Predator unless you want to count the Millennium stuff.

pspunch

11-15-2011, 09:54 PM

my bag right now
9 innova, 6 discraft, 4 mvp, 1 gateway

simpletwist

11-16-2011, 08:18 AM

Ford - Chevy; Coke - Pepsi; Innova - Discraft...

I like discs from both. Right now there is more Discraft in my bag than Innova. The only reason is that I tried the disc & liked it so I use it. The manufacturer is immaterial.

Here's how it goes for me. I got a Discraft misprint deal a while back. I got an Ace Race Meteor. I liked the way it felt and flew. It quickly replaced the Champ Coyote because I was more consistent throwing it. I lost the Ace Race Meteor and replaced it with an ESP Meteor and it was just as true as the Ace Race disc. Then about 6 months ago I found a well seasoned Champ Panther. I threw it and I liked it. A LOT! Hated to give it up, but being the nice guy that I am I called the owner and gave it back. So about a month ago I had an offer for a trade of my Star Beast for a Champ Panther. I jumped on the deal. So now my Meteor is sitting on the bench while I put the Panther in the game. No they aren't exactly the same, the Meteor seems to have a bit more glide which sometimes meant I over threw it.

The point is I use what works for me.

SirRaph

11-16-2011, 09:41 AM

I used to go out of my way to throw Discraft - just because I'm from Michigan and I wanted to support a company from the Murder Mitten. But as my bag matures and I begin to settle on molds that work best for me, my bag has slowly shifted to almost exclusively Innova.

I prefer Destroyers over Forces, Preds over Firebirds/Teebirds, RoadRunners over Avenger SS, Rocs over "the hive", Yetis over Challengers.

Rocaholic74

11-16-2011, 09:42 AM

I have a mishmosh of a bag....I have Innova, Gateway, MVP, Discraft, and Lat 64.

1x MVP Ion
2x Gateway Wizards
4x Innova Rocs
1x Discraft Buzz
1x Innova Eagle L
1x Lat 64 River
1x Innova Valk
1x Innova Banshee
2x Innova Sidewinder

I don't have anything higher than a speed 9 in mmy bag..no need for it right now..And as the name suggests I love Rocs but just got a nice Z Buzzz (it's my first) and can really huck the hell out of that thing...man does that disc like to just glide ...But I'll never give up the Rocs...

Apoth

11-16-2011, 10:44 AM

I tend to throw more Discraft than Innova. Not that Innova doesn't make good discs, I just really prefer Z to Champ (strikes me as more durable) and the discs tend to be more consistent with DC (again, not perfect, but more consistent). I've thrown Destroyers and Wraiths and loved them (though I've come to prefer Nukes and Forces fro various reasons). Have always loved Teebirds and Eagles, and have recently had some affection with the Roc even though I absolutely love my Buzzzes.

Right now my bag has 8 molds. 6 Discraft, 1 Innova, 1 Gateway. Or, based on disc, 14 DC, 2 Gateway, 4 Innova.

pzacch05

11-16-2011, 10:51 AM

my primary drivers are the avenger and avenger ss. i currently throw rocs but am thinking of going back to the buzzz. the only discs i have innova that have always been in my bag are the leopard and birdie but i guess i could exchange that for a rattler. whats a discraft version of the leopard? or does the buzzz pretty much just take that spot?

steveo69

11-16-2011, 11:04 AM

whats a discraft version of the leopard? or does the buzzz pretty much just take that spot?

Xpress.

craftsman

11-16-2011, 01:49 PM

I find the XL in elite x very leo like and much more usefull then a xpress.

aarikc17

11-16-2011, 01:51 PM

The whole consistency thing is B.S.

I have to hand pick XLs, Trackers, and Surges just as much as Xcals, Teebirds, and Rocs

simpletwist

11-16-2011, 02:57 PM

whats a discraft version of the leopard?

I wondered that same thing. And tried a bunch of different Discraft discs to see if one would compare to my Leo. The answer I came up with is that nothing from Discraft compares to the Leopard.

rusch_bag

11-16-2011, 03:17 PM

IMO

Putters
Wash

Mids
Discraft (I throw rocs and I will admit that all around discrafts mids are better)

Fairway Drivers
Innova hands down

Distance Drivers
This one is close but I think Innova has the edge here as well.

Consistency
Discraft wins here. They at least try to use the same plastic from run to run. The different amount of star plastic that I own is kind of mind boggling. Each one feels like a different mix.

Durability
Wash.

Plastic feel
IMO Discraft

Overall
Wash in my book. Both have their positives and negatives, but nothing is enough to separate from the competition.

smarkquart

11-16-2011, 04:39 PM

I will throw this in for your consideration, debate, and scorn:

Plastic comparison

DX v Pro D - DX just seems harder and more damage resistant which is a plus in all discs besides a few putters that may fly better with Pro D style damage.

Pro v Elite X - Pros just seem faster while Xs seem to have better glide than their comparable molds in other plastics. This is nearly a toss up, but I like how the Pro feels more so than the X.

Champion v Elite Z - Champions have richer color but Z I think overall have better color selection. I think Z grips a little better and is more durable than Champion.

Star v ESP - I find Star far more durable than ESP with exceptions like the ESP Pulse, which is nearly indestructible for some reason. I also like the grip of Star considerably more than ESP. However, at least in mids, ESP seems to have more glide than Star.

Non-comparible plastics - Innova has the R-Pro and Echo Star while Discraft has FLX. For what they are intended I think Innova has this category due to the Echo Star. That particular plastic is a great compromise between Star and Pro. For the most part FLX's job of being durable far outweighs R-Pro's job of being grippy. Otherwise, it really is hard to compare discs in these plastics unless you look just at what they are intended to do.

Innova Putters v Discraft Putters - I give this category to Discraft because of how many operable putters they have. Innova may have the several versions of Aviars, but the same is true of Magnets. Discraft just has more of a selection.

Innova Midrange v Discraft Midrange - I give Discraft another nod and mainly again to selection. They have the Buzzz, the Buzzz SS, Meteor, Wasp, Hornet, and Drone. This is quite a formniable lineup. While the Roc is definitely no slouch, at best it can be paired with a Mako and Shark. Innova obviously has other mids, but I think Discraft just has a higher average quality of mids.

Innova Drivers v Discraft Drivers - To keep this short I lumped Fairway and Distance drivers together. Innova has a huge advantage in Fairways; Teebirds, TLs, Leopards, and so on comparable to Discraft's big two of Cyclones and Stalkers. XS and XL are definitely nice discs, do not get me wrong, but their inconsistencies between plastics is far greater than the inconsistencies between those in Innova's lineup. I think Discraft's Nuke lineup definitely brings them back into the driver conversation as Innova can only answer with the Boss, Katana, and Ape, but if you throw in there the XCaliber, Wraith, Orc, TeeDevil, Valkyrie, and Destroyer, they cover far more stability ground than the Crush, Force, Surge, and Surge SS.

Basically both companies are great, and unless you are a sponsored player who has spent a great deal of time learning specific discs and breaking them in to your ideal stability and style, a mixed bag definitely seems best.

Apoth

11-16-2011, 04:58 PM

The whole consistency thing is B.S.

I have to hand pick XLs, Trackers, and Surges just as much as Xcals, Teebirds, and Rocs

The experience I have with the DC stuff I've tried to buy has been a lot different than my Innova experiences. Not saying DC is perfect, just more consistent overall. I've gone through stacks of nukes and forces looking for ones with higher or lower PLH or more or less dome and found them all to be identical. With that being said, I do occasionally get a disc that varies from the standard (like my super domey Glo Buzzz...looks almost like a drone) but more often they're close. With a lot of Innova, I've had to search and handpick. Especially with my favorite Innova driver, the destroyer. There's a lot of variation in that mold (both intentional and not).

Mike C

11-17-2011, 01:15 AM

However, at least in mids, ESP seems to have more glide than Star.

This might be because (AFAIK) more of DC's mids have been produced for use with premium plastic VS the opposite with Innova, having designed their best mids in the days of DX.

Innova Midrange v Discraft Midrange - I give Discraft another nod and mainly again to selection. They have the Buzzz, the Buzzz SS, Meteor, Wasp, Hornet, and Drone. This is quite a formniable lineup. While the Roc is definitely no slouch, at best it can be paired with a Mako and Shark. Innova obviously has other mids, but I think Discraft just has a higher average quality of mids.

Yeah, but an effective Innova mid line-up can be a new KC Pro Roc, a worn dx Roc and a beat up dx Roc. They also have other good molds, like for understable you can throw Panthers or Stingrays, Gators aren't bad overstable mids etc. You also forgot to mention the Comet.

Good post overall just a few minor contentions :)

ejvogie

11-17-2011, 03:47 AM

Innova Putters v Discraft Putters - I give this category to Discraft because of how many operable putters they have. Innova may have the several versions of Aviars, but the same is true of Magnets. Discraft just has more of a selection.

Bah. Until EITHER company finds a good replacement for the Pro Rhyno, all the selection in the world won't keep me in putters at normal prices.

smarkquart

11-17-2011, 09:07 AM

This might be because (AFAIK) more of DC's mids have been produced for use with premium plastic VS the opposite with Innova, having designed their best mids in the days of DX.

Yeah, but an effective Innova mid line-up can be a new KC Pro Roc, a worn dx Roc and a beat up dx Roc. They also have other good molds, like for understable you can throw Panthers or Stingrays, Gators aren't bad overstable mids etc. You also forgot to mention the Comet.

Good post overall just a few minor contentions :)

I definitely agree with the first statement. Anyone who knows their discing history definitely does not hold this against Innova for Discraft seemingly holding an edge here. For a newer player who either does not know and or does not care, just looking at flight charts, asking for word of mouth recommendations, or quickly glancing through these forums will definitely see a greater love for Discraft mids. They will see an ardent following for Rocs, but more mentions of a wider variety of molds like the Drone and Meteor when looking at the whole picture.

A lot can definitely be said on the versitility of the Roc. However, seasoning a Roc is a patient process and a skill earned through a lot of experience. For someone just starting out, the Roc basically only covers one slot in their stability range, albeit a huge slot. I do not know how beginners in my area gravitate towards them, but I see more Sharks than anything else.

As for the Comet, I do not know how I completely spaced on that mid. I was thinking of the whole Bee lineup Discraft has and at least then remembered the Meteor. While the Comet never worked for me, I am well aware that it is a standard of which many mids are compared to.