Aviar'ssssssss

[Ryan P.]

Hey, what are all the types of Aviars and what are the differences between them?

[brennan]

Classic Aviar is the grid stamped one, is supposed to fly straighter than the others.
Aviar P&A is the normal mold, no bead.
Aviar Driver only comes in Star plastic afaik and is the big bead mold.
KC Pro is the big bead mold in a stiff blend of plastic.
JK Pro is the big bead mold in a flexy pro-like plastic.

[Jimb]

Classic Aviar is the grid stamped one, is supposed to fly straighter than the others.
Aviar P&A is the normal mold, no bead.
Aviar Driver only comes in Star plastic afaik and is the big bead mold.
KC Pro is the big bead mold in a stiff blend of plastic.
JK Pro is the big bead mold in a flexy pro-like plastic.

What the heck is a bead?

[Geoffro]

From discnation:

"Bead: The bead of the disc is found on the underside of the rim. A bigger or more pronounced bead will be easily noticeable compared to a beadless disc. A beaded disc will be more stable than its beadless counterpart. Beads are usually more common on mid ranges and putters."

From a forum post on discontinuum (Bruce Brakel):

"The bead is the part of the disc that touches the ground when the disc is sitting there right side up, if the disc has a bead. A bead is like a little bit of extra plastic on the edge that touches the ground. A Wasp has a bead; a Buzzz does not. A Rhyno has a bead; a Boss does not. A Spider has a big bead, a Gator has a small bead and a Coyote has no bead at all. A Challenger has a big bead and a Magnet has a very small bead."

Hope this helps.

[Three Putt]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/beadnt1.jpg

[Olorin]

“There are only two types of edges, big bead and small bead. CE Aviars are small bead, same as the putter (P&A) and the new firm run (classic). Big bead is on JK and KC.”[1] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn1)

The history of Aviar putters: “There have always been two Aviar molds. Originally they were identical in a two cavity base. These were the first Aviars run and can be distinguished two ways. First, there is one approximately 2" diameter ring on the bottom instead of two rings or one 1" ring, and second they are beadless. This two cavity system didn't work very well so we switched to single cavity systems. The two molds began to diverge at this point. One Aviar with the small bead was generally used with softer plastic and became the putt and approach mold, while the other with the big bead and stiffer plastic became the driver mold. The size of the bead really doesn't have anything to do with stability, it's mainly for feel and durability. The plastic used, and particular molding parameters have made most of the difference between Aviars until a few years ago when we made the molds diverge a little farther. The Aviar X mold is now the driver mold even when it is made with softer plastic like the JK Aviar. The Aviar X is a more high speed stable configuration. The Putt and Approach mold makes the Putters and the stiffer Classic Aviars.”[2] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn2)

The difference between a big bead and a small bead Aviar is usually stability. Small bead being slightly unstable at high speed. The big beads used for JK Aviar and KC Aviar are very stable at high speed. (Dave D.)

The Champion as well as the Classic Aviar are big bead putter mold. Might as well be the small bead putter as far as performance goes. The Champion Aviar flies slightly unstable. The Classic flies very straight. The putter (P & A) flies slightly unstable. Different plastics. The KC and JK are big bead from the old DX driver mold which is more stable at high speeds. Also different plastics. #126106 - 12/24/03 07:14 PM

1)Regular Putt & Approach (P&A) - small bead. “Slightly understable at high speeds, stable at medium speeds, and fairly stable at lower speeds.”[3] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn3)
·This Innova’s all time best selling disc. (Dave D.)
2)Glow- no bead, softer plastic. Same as the P&A but the plastic is softer with the glow additive
3)Classic (2002). “Stiffy”. Marked by grid picture. New in 2002 is a small bead. “The 02 style hard plastic small bead will probably match the Omega SS for being the straightest flying at low speeds.” (Dave D.)

History of the Classic:
The original was beadless, but Innova hasn’t made beadless in many years. The same as the putter mold but in the original type stiffer plastic.[4] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn4) Then it was made as a big bead putter in stiff plastic. In 2002 it was changed to the small bead in stiff plastic.
4)KC Pro- big bead. Firmer KC plastic. “The KC and JK are more overstable than the Putter or the Classic.”[5] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn5)
5)JK Pro Aviar X - small bead, softer plastic . “…it has other charms such as approach and go for that are impressive. This is the straightest (most stable) Aviar we have ever produced with a low speed fade more like a Thumtrac Birdie than an Aviar (very low). The AX is essentially the AX driver (relatively new) with soft Rhyno SE plastic. It was developed for Juliana Korver who we recently hired to do communications and promotional work. Although, it wasn't a requirement of her employment, she opted to switch to our plastic. That put the onus on me to make her happy with the discs she would be playing with. The only putter we had at the time she was happy with was the soft Rhyno SE. She liked the feel of the plastic and the grip/release. But after playing several rounds with her, it was evident to me that it didn't match her putting style. Rather than having her adapt to the putter, I adapted the AX to her style and preferences. She loves it. It will be marketed as the JK Pro Aviar X putter which only seems fair as she was the inspiration.”[6] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn6) “…very stable and predictable at high and medium speeds, but tend to be a little overstable at low speeds.”[7] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn7)
6)Pro (SE) - The Pro Aviar is a driver mold out of SE type plastic.. Stable but not overly. It will be relatively stiff, but no more so than a driver Aviar was or the new Classic is.[8] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn8) It uses a different plastic entirely. It flies similar to the JK. The feel is a lot different because of the plastic. Stiffer but still grippy. Not as grippy as the JK, but much more than the KC. The KC is stiffer. This is the disc for the people who want more grip than the KC but a stiffer disc than the JK. Don't know what the longevity is yet, but first indications are that it is more durable than the older SE plastic.[9] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn9) As for flight characteristic they are probably slightly less overstable initially.
7)Champion- “Soon to come will be the Champion Aviar and Q Omega. We have not determined which variants would be best for these molds, but the Q will probably have a small bead and the Champion, a big bead.[10] (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/#_ftn10)” (Dave D.) “The new Champion Aviars will be softer, grippier, and not as stable. They are better putters and approach discs, but poorer drivers. The plastic has a dead hitting quality instead of the usual candy bouncyness.” (Dave D., 3/5/03) They will be softer than the CE Aviars. Gummier, taffy plastic. Some are see through plastic. The “Champion BB Aviar is gummy and a new heavy gummy. The heavy gummy has very little bounce which is an asset to a putter. The Champion Aviar is very good at putt and approach, but is not a good driver.” (Dave D., 3/31/03)
8)CE - small bead. limited run promotional discs in durable CE plastic.
9)(Omega Super Soft [by Millenium] is the Aviar mold in a different plastic. “Slightly understable at high speeds, stable at medium speeds, and fairly stable at lower speeds. …I don't know for sure, but I'm told by one of our Innova team members that the Omega is the straightest flying at low speeds for him.” [Dave D])
10)(Omega Q [by Millenium]. Putter mold same as Aviar and Super Soft, Q plastic (qandy), small bead)

Aviar Drivers

Big bead, grid pattern, stiffer plastic. Also called the “Big bead”. Made with the driver mold. “All Aviar drivers are the X mold now.” The “bead” at the bottom of the rim is bigger. “Very stable and predictable at high and medium speeds, but tend to be a little overstable at low speeds.” (Dave D.) The grid pattern Aviar used to be a driver with big bead and was considered a driver Aviar.

[Three Putt]

There is a lot of good info there, but it is a little out of date. The Aviar P & A was switched to a beadless configuration a couple of years ago. The JK and KC Aviars and Aviar Driver are still made from the big bead Aviar X mold and the Omega Series for Millennium still uses the small bead Aviar mold. The last I saw, the "Classic Aviar" was still a small bead disc, but that may be because it has not been run in awhile.

The picture below shows three Aviars. The disc on top is the current Aviar P & A (beadless.) The middle disc is an old Aviar P & A (small bead.) The bottom disc is an old Aviar (big bead.) If I had a new big bead Aviar X, I'd have included it as well.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/006-3-1.jpg

[Three Putt]

More pictures...just to raise my post count! :D

Current Aviar P & A.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/007-2-1.jpghttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/013-1.jpg

[Three Putt]

Old small-bead Aviar P & A.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/008-2-1.jpghttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/012-1.jpg

[Three Putt]

Old Big Bead Aviar.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/010-3-1.jpghttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/011-1.jpg

[Three Putt]

...and before anybody asks, yes I like orange!

[RustyP]

Another piece to the Aviar puzzle...

The current production run KC Pro and Star/DX Aviar Drivers use a blunt nose, whereas older big-bead Aviars (eg - big-bead "Grid" stamped Aviars) use a different nose shape (more rounded).

[ERicJ]

There's another good big bead picture linked in this thread:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1047

[Three Putt]

Another piece to the Aviar puzzle...

The current production run KC Pro and Star/DX Aviar Drivers use a blunt nose, whereas older big-bead Aviars (eg - big-bead "Grid" stamped Aviars) use a different nose shape (more rounded).Yeah, the picture I posted is an old big bead with the original nose shape. At the time that disc was produced, the big bead and small bead had the same nose. At some point when the JK Aviar X was introduced, they made the big bead nose more blunt.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, you decide) I had (and still have) a large stash of Aviars by the time the Aviar X was introduced, and I have not needed to buy a new one. Soooo...no disc to post pictures of. I only have the beadless P & A in the pictures because I bought a 150 class putter for my daughter.

[DeafDiscGolfer]

There is a lot of good info there, but it is a little out of date. The Aviar P & A was switched to a beadless configuration a couple of years ago. The JK and KC Aviars and Aviar Driver are still made from the big bead Aviar X mold and the Omega Series for Millennium still uses the small bead Aviar mold. The last I saw, the "Classic Aviar" was still a small bead disc, but that may be because it has not been run in awhile.

The picture below shows three Aviars. The disc on top is the current Aviar P & A (beadless.) The middle disc is an old Aviar P & A (small bead.) The bottom disc is an old Aviar (big bead.) If I had a new big bead Aviar X, I'd have included it as well.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/006-3-1.jpg

Interesting, I have beadless (or is it small b?) Aviars that I have been using for long time and has serve me well. Need to know the production year of the old Aviar P&A and the rest of the Aviars. As you can see the year (1991) in the picture. I assume that's when it was made, right?

[Jimb]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/beadnt1.jpg

Old Big Bead Aviar.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/010-3-1.jpghttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/bubbakick/disc%20golf/011-1.jpg

Thanks everyone. The two above were especially helpful to me. So it looks like my favs are beadless.

[Ryan P.]

Thanks for responding with good information. The pics were extremely helpful, and as usual Olorin knows every detail of everything pertaining to disc golf. I still wonder why Innova would call a disc the aviar driver when the nose is different and they have put a bead on the disc though. I understand that it looks much different than almost every other "driver" on the market since it has such a blunt edge, but why continue to call it an aviar?

[Three Putt]

Interesting, I have beadless (or is it small b?) Aviars that I have been using for long time and has serve me well. Need to know the production year of the old Aviar P&A and the rest of the Aviars. As you can see the year (1991) in the picture. I assume that's when it was made, right?The "chains" stamp for the Aviar P & A was first used in 1991. All of the discs made from then until the stamp changed around 2001 had that stamp with the 1991 date on it. So the putter in the picture was made sometime between 1991 and 2001. It would have been a small bead, but as you can see from the picture the bead is no longer noticeable. Basically once you beat the snot out of an Aviar you would not be able to see the bead any longer. We used to call that "knocking the bead off." You knew your Aviar was ready for those $$$ short-range turnover shots once the bead was knocked off.

Your putter looks like a sweet '90s era Aviar P & A with the bead knocked off. :cool:

[Three Putt]

Thanks for responding with good information. The pics were extremely helpful, and as usual Olorin knows every detail of everything pertaining to disc golf. I still wonder why Innova would call a disc the aviar driver when the nose is different and they have put a bead on the disc though. I understand that it looks much different than almost every other "driver" on the market since it has such a blunt edge, but why continue to call it an aviar?Innova has had X and L molds and sold different discs under the same name for years. The Aviar has been sold in at least two different molds for the last 20 years. It's still the best-selling disc of all time, so it does not seem to be hurting anybody.

[DeafDiscGolfer]

These were the first Aviars run and can be distinguished two ways. First, there is one approximately 2" diameter ring on the bottom instead of two rings or one 1" ring, and second they are beadless...

For visual information:

181
(A) picture of 1" ring from Champ. Cobra

182
(B) picture of 2" with two rings from my P&A Avair (same one as recent pictures). Sorry, its kinda hard to take good picture with this Mac's iSight camera but at least you can see both inner and outer rings within 2" area.

I assume my Avair is a later run, right?

[Three Putt]

The two oldest Aviars that I can date are both from '93. One has the Shuttle Putter stamp that was run for the Worlds in Huntsville that year. The other has a "15th Annual Wintertime Open" stamp, which also would have been in '93. Both have the rings like in your picture...but so do the two discs I posted pictures of earlier, both of which date to 1998. The only real difference is in the handwriting of the weight on the bottom. Whoever was writing the weights in the early 90's used to write small around the edges of the circles. Whoever was writing the weights in the late 90's used to write big all the was across the circles. Assuming you can still see the weight (I twirl the disc on my finger while I wait to throw, so on most of my Aviars the weight is long gone) that might give you a clue as to the time frame it was run.

[Three Putt]

Another thing to confuse everyone...

The rule after the Aviar was retooled into the big bead/small bead molds was that the big bead was made in the hard plastic with the grid stamp and the small bead was made in the softer plastic and the putter stamp. I've got small bead grid stamped Aviars and I've got big bead putter Aviars from the 90's, proving that the rules are made to be broken. As was mentioned before, it really did not matter as the plastic caused most of the flight change between the two discs, not the mold. Once the big bead mold was retooled into the Aviar X mold, the Classic grid stamped Aviars were run in DX in the small bead mold and the difference between those and the old big bead grid stamped Aviars was negligible.

[thenamesben]

All you need to know is that you should be using Classic Aviars for upshots and putting with a JK Aviar X. That is all.

[sidewinder22]

Does a bead change the rim width? I really like the Soft Banger GT over the Omega SS because the rim feels wider and the bottom is smoother on release.

[DeafDiscGolfer]

The only real difference is in the handwriting of the weight on the bottom. Whoever was writing the weights in the early 90's used to write small around the edges of the circles. Whoever was writing the weights in the late 90's used to write big all the was across the circles. Assuming you can still see the weight (I twirl the disc on my finger while I wait to throw, so on most of my Aviars the weight is long gone) that might give you a clue as to the time frame it was run.

That was it! Very good detective tips!! :)

I, too, twirl discs!! Don't we all?!? Yeah the weight markings has worn off and replaced with my own sharpie marker (worn off as well) but after couple minutes of struggling to see the ballpoint pen's imprints and I was able to detect that it was a late 90's version due to large imprints starting from the middle of the rings to outside of it. I might try to take picture of it with a real digital camera not Mac's iSight's. Very interesting!!

You're awesome, man! Thanks.

:cool:

[DeafDiscGolfer]

I just realized that I made it to Par!! How nice, 100 of practical posting...and many more ahead!!

:D:D

[Three Putt]

Does a bead change the rim width? I really like the Soft Banger GT over the Omega SS because the rim feels wider and the bottom is smoother on release.The bead really should not change the rim width if I understand what you mean. A bead DOES effect the release. When I first tried to switch to Big Bead Aviars I used to catch the bead on my ring finger during my release and gack the throw. That was a long long time ago, but I do remember having a hard time getting used to the release. I know a few guys who will only throw beadless discs because of the smooth release.

[Three Putt]

That was it! Very good detective tips!! :)

I, too, twirl discs!! Don't we all?!? Yeah the weight markings has worn off and replaced with my own sharpie marker (worn off as well) but after couple minutes of struggling to see the ballpoint pen's imprints and I was able to detect that it was a late 90's version due to large imprints starting from the middle of the rings to outside of it. I might try to take picture of it with a real digital camera not Mac's iSight's. Very interesting!!

You're awesome, man! Thanks.

:cool:Glad I could help.

The finger twirl has gotten me in trouble a few times in trades. I've sent discs to guys who got upset because they could not read the weight anymore. On the DX Innova stuff, there usually is the imprint from the original ballpoint marking as you mentioned. On the old Discraft stuff there is nothing...once the weight is gone it is gone.

[elnino]

okay i'll post pictures but i think these are all Aviar P&A why are they all different?


SE Aviar Grid Stamped
Star Aviar
Bottom Stamp DX Aviar
DX Aviar Tourney Stamped