How do domes affect flight?

[sidewinder22]

I'm assuming the more dome the more glide to a disc. My 167g Champ Firebird has a dome and my 168g Star Firebird has no dome. I don't think I seen my Star catch air and stall and seems to hang lower to the ground.

What else affects glide? The depth of the rim I'm assuming. The Discraft Flick has a shallow rim and I'm thinking it doesn't have much glide either. Although the rim is very wide which seems to make it very overstable.

[Three Putt]

Glide and understable are directly related. Overstable discs always have terrible glide ratings. Understable discs always have good glide ratings. If you look at the Innova discs, the only discs with a glide rating of 5 or higher that do not have a negative number in its turn rating are the XCal, Skeeter, TeeBird, Condor and Aero. They all have a turn rating of 0. You can throw the Condor and Aero out because their glide is a side effect of their large diameters, so there are really only three "stable" discs with a high glide rating. The rest of the "Glide 5" or higher discs read like a who's-who of flippy discs...Stingray, Coyote, Cobra, Kite, Leopard, Archangel, Dragon, Sidewinder, Roadrunner, SL, Beast, Monarch... Inversely, the Spider, Wolf and Sonic are the only Innova discs with a negative turn rating with a glide rating less than 4. The other 24 Innova discs with a negative turn rating all have a glide rating of 4 or above. So really except in a few cases, Glide=Understable.

The disc with the highest glide rating is a large diameter understable disc called the Jaguar. It's super flippy (-5 turn) and has a HUGE 24.1 CM diameter. The combination of those two factor make it the perfect "glide" disc. Unfortunately, it is so slow that while it stays in the air forever, it does not go anywhere. You stand there and watch it float in the air for so long that you think it has gone a mile, then it lands 200 ft in front of you. :mad:

As far as the dome goes, I'm not sure how that works. I thought the whole "Frisbees fly because..." thing had to do with the air traveling faster over the top of the disc than the bottom creating lower pressure above the disc than below and causing the disc to rise. I would figure a flat disc will allow the air to travel faster over the disc and help that lift and a dome would slow down the air because it has to travel farther, hurting the lift. But the design of the nose and the bottom of the disc has something to do with it as well, so there are probably things that offset the effect. The larger dome might create more turbulence under the disc, so the increase in pressure under the disc might more than offset the pressure created on top of the disc. But there is a bunch of other stuff in play like angular velocity and drag that I have no concept of. There is probably no 100% guarantee of anything. I think most of the really in-depth, high-tech experimentation with flying rotating orbs is super-secret, highly-classified UFO research that if released would have the unintended consequence of giving life to a kick-ass new generation of Frisbees. :D

From my experience, domey high-speed drivers are usually more overstable with less glide than a flat one, but a domey Roc will be less stable with more glide than a flat one. So again I must say "I dunno." I just throw the (censored) things, I don't know how they work.

[ERicJ]

From my experience, domey high-speed drivers are usually more overstable with less glide than a flat one, but a domey Roc will be less stable with more glide than a flat one. So again I must say "I dunno." I just throw the (censored) things, I don't know how they work.
This old Innova Disc chart has the opposite: flat discs are more overstable.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010701041325/innovadiscs.com/disc_select_chart.pdf

[Lewis]

Domes cause lift. Flatter domes cause less lift. It's my understanding that lift also causes high-speed turn.

[garublador]

It depends on the mold. Some discs get faster and more high speed understable but low speed overstable the flatter they get, so while they may seem more overstable to some, others find they're more understable.

[Riley]

Take a look at a Banshee. The top of the disc is almost concaved or has a "negative dome" if you will. With that being said the Banshee is my go-to for overstability. I think Firebirds are the same.

[Three Putt]

From my experience, domey high-speed drivers are usually more overstable with less glide than a flat one, but a domey Roc will be less stable with more glide than a flat one. So again I must say "I dunno." I just throw the (censored) things, I don't know how they work.

This old Innova Disc chart has the opposite: flat discs are more overstable.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010701041325/innovadiscs.com/disc_select_chart.pdfYeah, that's why they took it off the chart. For discs like a Roc, flat=overstable. For the super-mongo-high speed-huge wing-big distance discs (which is what I always assume we are talking about) dome=overstable. So it really depends.

[valkyriefb11]

Take a look at a Banshee. The top of the disc is almost concaved or has a "negative dome" if you will. With that being said the Banshee is my go-to for overstability. I think Firebirds are the same.

The first banshee I bought had that "negative dome." At first I thought something was wrong with it but then I saw some other banshee's that were all the same way.

Side question: how does all of this dome stuff relate to the new Boss? I know that some of the bosses have a high dome others are more flat ... does nayone know which ones are going to be more overstable? is it the high-domed?

[Three Putt]

how does all of this dome stuff relate to the new Boss? I know that some of the bosses have a high dome others are more flat ... does nayone know which ones are going to be more overstable? is it the high-domed?Flat Bosses are flippy. Domey Bosses are overstable.

[Rbuzz9]

because of their terrible glide some understable drivers seem to get their distance from pure speed. the Flick is very low profile and very aerodynamic - it goes very fast and then falls with zero glide. A larger dome would give the disc a higher profile & therefore a slower disc but would have more glide. I remember seeing somethign where mark ellis likes finding certain discs with the flattest tops. since he is a FH pro, the more overstable the discs, the better they behave for him.

[Three Putt]

I think you meant...because of their terrible glide some overstable drivers seem to get their distance from pure speed. the Flick is very low profile and very aerodynamic - it goes very fast and then falls with zero glide. A larger dome would give the disc a higher profile & therefore a slower disc but would have more glide. I remember seeing somethign where mark ellis likes finding certain discs with the flattest tops. since he is a FH pro, the more overstable the discs, the better they behave for him. You can put hyzer on an understable disc and it will flip up out of it and glide for a long way. An overstable disc just falls out of its flight without the glide.

[sidewinder22]

My Boss has a dome and is fairly overstable and very fast. It also has good glide which is what I'm not used to seeing with my other drivers. I throw mostly sidearm with Champ Banshee which does have a dome, and Champ Firebird also has a dome, but my Star Firebird with no dome is slightly less stable. I'm really liking the Boss now that I've broken it in some and gotten used to it. I can't get the hang of understable discs sidearm.

[Rbuzz9]

yes yes i meant Overstable - Good Catch ThreePutt!!

[Rbuzz9]

I can't get the hang of understable discs sidearm.

you really need to try flicking it in a similar fashion to an Ultimate toss. or make sure you have plenty of hyzer if you sidearm an understable disc. Or

Flicking is pretty cool because its like a shortarm throw but you get unexpected distance. Really doesnt take off much D compared to really giving it all. Its also easier to keep some hyzer on the disc - it's more controlled. With little effort 300+' & straight is very attainable.
I feel that despite being a long time baseball player - throwing a disc sidearm fullspeed with hyzer is fairly unnatural - and results can be inconsistant - you can throw an absolute bomb - or a real dud - which comes down to the fact that many more variables come into play when you're throwing understable discs at high speed - they are much more of a finesse disc. that's why the learning the FH flick can be a nice tool.

[crouchingwombat]

So I just read all of this and want to clarify... Wraiths, fairly fast and stable. Now a flat wrait is more stable while a domey wraith is more overstable...? Is there going to be significant difference in turn and fade with these discs? Am I going to have to flick harder or give it a little anhyzer to get the same straight path and distance as my "flat" wraith? Just curious, I've never thrown a domey wraith and don't know if I want to return it and get a flat one. Who knows maybe I'll like it. This is what you get when mail order...

[TalbotTrojan]

This has been interesting. I am going to make a conclusion that it does indeed depend on the mold you are talking about. Now I am going to go check all the discs in my bag and see if they are domey or not.

Does anyone know what in the process of molding the disc causes it to be domey or not?