Multiple baskets?

[optidiscic]

Pet Peeve...I know most of you enjoy them...but..I can't stand them...to me it clutters up a fairway, creates confusion and even when I know the proper basket..it just seems to make a mess of a good hole. I rarely have seen a hole where the alt basket is tucked away and not really visible from the main route. I just don't like them...Im sure others feel the same way privately! (I never penalize unless its completely confusing when I review I understand its a pro...but to me I just hate them)

[waynewf]

Agreed 100%!
What I really hate is when a course has multiple pin placements and calls them, say A, B, and C.....welll hole 1-4 are using the A set-up, and then the next few holes switch between B & C a bit...then a run of B's...andother A......

I honestly think that disc golf doesn't yet generate the type of money it needs to in most areas to properly run and maintain these types of courses. I love them for their ambition, but I would rather go to one really solid layout then have to constantly be guessing and then making deals with my buddies like (OK, we're shhoting on THAT basket for this hole...even if we figure out it's wrong when we get up there, this is how we're going to play it now....).

[zenbot]

Pet Peeve...I know most of you enjoy them...but..I can't stand them...to me it clutters up a fairway, creates confusion and even when I know the proper basket..it just seems to make a mess of a good hole. I rarely have seen a hole where the alt basket is tucked away and not really visible from the main route. I just don't like them...Im sure others feel the same way privately! (I never penalize unless its completely confusing when I review I understand its a pro...but to me I just hate them)
You could always hope someone on your card gets a black ace.

[Beable]

I like em, but I agree it's annoying when the basket placement is a surprise. At Knob Hill, the tee signs have holes in the map for each basket location, and the people who re-arrange the baskets will put a marker in the one that is currently in use.

[optidiscic]

It also muddies up par.

[Fender088]

Agreed 100%!
What I really hate is when a course has multiple pin placements and calls them, say A, B, and C.....welll hole 1-4 are using the A set-up, and then the next few holes switch between B & C a bit...then a run of B's...andother A......

I can't stand this!! Either set them all up in the A position or the B position and so on. Played The Sinks a little earlier and a few of the fairways had multiple baskets up. No big deal I guess, but why not just leave out one basket per hole and keep from confusing the group? Also, what happens when your drive hits the closest basket when you're going for the longer one? I hadn't seen this happen, but atlscott rang the chains today on the A pin on his second shot. Only problem was we were playing to the B pin.

[leppard]

Agreed 100%!
What I really hate is when a course has multiple pin placements and calls them, say A, B, and C.....welll hole 1-4 are using the A set-up, and then the next few holes switch between B & C a bit...then a run of B's...andother A......

I honestly think that disc golf doesn't yet generate the type of money it needs to in most areas to properly run and maintain these types of courses. I love them for their ambition, but I would rather go to one really solid layout then have to constantly be guessing and then making deals with my buddies like (OK, we're shhoting on THAT basket for this hole...even if we figure out it's wrong when we get up there, this is how we're going to play it now....).

I agree 100%.

[optidiscic]

Got a black birdie at kiwi dgc Funny was a roadside pin and some passer bys in a car gave me the right on yell as they witnessed me bend the 150 foot anny straight into chains. Was fake glory. Funny

[Fender088]

Was fake glory. Funny

I don't know why, but this phrase had me laughing pretty hard.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that when there are multiple baskets set up it leads to problems after the drive. I'll be playing with a group at these types of courses, the first person will tee off and have a good drive to the closest basket, and then they'll say "Oh ya, we're playing to basket A". If you only had one layout at a time this would never happen.

[Dave242]

Waaaaaaaaah.

The issues on this thread are only issues to the occasional visitor to the course. But, they relieve issues that those who play the course regularly have (mainly boredom, but also erosion control). These are almost always the same people who do the maintenance on the course. If they have the time and money to invest in extra baskets, extra collars, and moving baskets around........more power to them!

[biscoe]

i agree with dave.

[GLong]

...to me it clutters up a fairway, creates confusion and even when I know the proper basket..it just seems to make a mess of a good hole. I rarely have seen a hole where the alt basket is tucked away and not really visible from the main route.

this is more a fault of course design then anything. A good set of alternate baskets that meet your criteria is Patapsco State Park. I'm going there tomorrow to tackle the Green Monster!

[scarpfish]

I can't stand this!! Either set them all up in the A position or the B position and so on.
Boring. Also makes the entire course too hard or too easy.

I do think when multiple baskets are employed the alternate ones should be a different color to distinguish them.

[LeewayeDiscGolf]

Waaaaaaaaah.

The issues on this thread are only issues to the occasional visitor to the course. But, they relieve issues that those who play the course regularly have (mainly boredom, but also erosion control). These are almost always the same people who do the maintenance on the course. If they have the time and money to invest in extra baskets, extra collars, and moving baskets around........more power to them!

Agreed. :hfive: One of our local courses never changes and the other has 3-5 placements per hole. For us 'locals' we always enjoy showing up to the course and seeing new placements. Keeps it from getting boring. And it gives the grass or hillside or whatever time to heal. For the most part people figure it out fairly quick. However, the only ones that cause issues are the placements when 2 holes share a placement. Like our hole #7 long, when 7 is moved, it's placement gets used for #2 long.
I'm all for multiple placements. Now if a course has multiple baskets in place per hole, I can definitely see confusion there.

[Chutney]

We've had a very positive experience with using multiple baskets at my home course. We ordered 9 orange baskets and planned to make a seperate 9 hole loop but the plan fell through. We took a good look at the course to see where opportunities presented themselves for extended holes. We overlayed 9 existing holes with the orange baskets and the color difference solves the "which basket?" problem. Maybe painting the tops of the longer baskets would solve that issue.

We also addressed the par issue on 7 of the holes by making sure the longer extensions added a full, unique second shot, thereby creating par 4s. The remaining 2 baskets we used on two short par 3s that didn't yield many bogeys, kept them at par 3s, but added 80-90 feet and changed the shot shape required to reach the hole.

From what I have read, the idea has been used very succussfully at Warwick and Stan McDaniel's courses in NC (among others). By using Stan and Biscoe's ideas, I think the overlays made our course immeasurably better.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=787

[Dave242]

At times I am disappointed when I show up at a course and my favorite basket positions are not used. What I often do is throw 2 drives - one to my favorite and one to the current set up.

[Peterb]

Pet Peeve...I know most of you enjoy them...but..I can't stand them...to me it clutters up a fairway, creates confusion and even when I know the proper basket..it just seems to make a mess of a good hole. I rarely have seen a hole where the alt basket is tucked away and not really visible from the main route. I just don't like them...Im sure others feel the same way privately! (I never penalize unless its completely confusing when I review I understand its a pro...but to me I just hate them)

So do you hate Warwick? I could see where this situation would not be optimal, but at that course I think they make it work very well.

As for multi pin placements: they are a must have to mitigate erosion, reduce local boredom, and give the course the flexibility to be really easy, or really challenging.

[optidiscic]

Let me stress it's a pet peeve. My main gripe is when a hole has 2 baskets in place and there's confusion as to which basket to use. Multiple positions are not such a big deal to me. I like when a designer tucks the short basket off the fairway or hides usually maybe an anny lane to the longer pro hyzer lane. My peeve is when a long position is just longer and not a different shot. Warwick is a great course but even there as an infrequent visitor I get confused at times. I'm ignorant of color coding too I see basket I throw. Again just a pet peeve. Trap pond Delaware and borderland mass are 2 courses that attempt to keep the baskets out of each others flow. At least on a few holes

[bikinjack]

Agreed 100%!
What I really hate is when a course has multiple pin placements and calls them, say A, B, and C.....welll hole 1-4 are using the A set-up, and then the next few holes switch between B & C a bit...then a run of B's...andother A......

I honestly think that disc golf doesn't yet generate the type of money it needs to in most areas to properly run and maintain these types of courses. I love them for their ambition, but I would rather go to one really solid layout then have to constantly be guessing and then making deals with my buddies like (OK, we're shhoting on THAT basket for this hole...even if we figure out it's wrong when we get up there, this is how we're going to play it now....).

You would hate Rankin Lake for the last few months. The baskets have been all over the place since around Halloween. It's gonna change soon. They're all going to either the short or the long in three weeks.

[eegor]

I haven't played a course that has two baskets installed on each (or any) holes. I do regularly play courses that move pin placement periodically to add variety and allow areas around each placement to repair. A pin that never gets moved ends up being a mud bowl (in the DFW area). The clay will stay wet for a week at a time... with standing water for 2 or 3 days in many cases. In this case, I think variety is a good thing.

In cases where multiple baskets are installed at once, shouldn't the A, B , C etc. baskets be painted different colors? It would be nice to be able to play two "courses" on the same location on the same day.

To sum it up... the same 'ol stuff gets boring or unplayable... mix it up.

[wolito]

I really hate multiple baskets in the ground at the same time for one hole. Too much confusion. A course here in Phoenix, Vista Del Camino, there are baskets all over the place. I was on the 2nd tee and looked out and could see 5 baskets that could all potentially be the actual target. Which one to throw at? Of course the signage was poor and I just picked one and threw.

[Fender088]

Boring. Also makes the entire course too hard or too easy.

That's your opinion, and I'll defend your right to speak it!! Still, I respectfully disagree. Let's say there's normally multiple baskets on a hole. I've gotten used to this and I say, let's play the long pin (which I can't see from the tee). So I play way past the first basket, around a blind corner, and what do you know, basket B isn't there? If you're gonna be moving baskets all the time then make it known around hole 1. If you wanna stick to strict layouts, also make it known whether the course is being played from the A pins, B pins, etc.

I'm pretty OCD about this stuff though, just because I love course design and the natural beauty and flow of courses. Multiple baskets in the fairway just gets messy to me, but to each his own. If I own my own property and course then I'll make it my way. Until then it's up to the those with more power than me.

[scarpfish]

That's your opinion, and I'll defend your right to speak it!! Still, I respectfully disagree. Let's say there's normally multiple baskets on a hole. I've gotten used to this and I say, let's play the long pin (which I can't see from the tee). So I play way past the first basket, around a blind corner, and what do you know, basket B isn't there?
This is why you should walk a hole before you play it, or send someone out to spot. I do admit on wooded courses with blind pins, its a bit frustrating to do all that extra walking.

If you're gonna be moving baskets all the time then make it known around hole 1. If you wanna stick to strict layouts, also make it known whether the course is being played from the A pins, B pins, etc.
Nobody is going to remember something posted at Hole 1 by the time they get to Hole 4, Hole 7, certainly by the back nine. A better solution is tee signs at each hole that can be adjusted to show the current pin position(s). A quick solution are signs with holes punched in them where the pin positions are. You then place a bolt and nut in the sign that can be moved from hole to hole showing where the actual baskets are. Turkey Creek and Sugar Bottom in Iowa use this and it works quite well.

For all the hubbub about this issue, it should be noted that courses with multiple baskets are by and far the exception and not that norm. In the 140 courses I've played, I've only seen two courses with them, and both of them were open courses with a distinguishing feature between the primary baskets and the alternates.

[Fender088]

Nobody is going to remember something posted at Hole 1 by the time they get to Hole 4, Hole 7, certainly by the back nine. A better solution is tee signs at each hole that can be adjusted to show the current pin position(s). A quick solution are signs with holes punched in them where the pin positions are. You then place a bolt and nut in the sign that can be moved from hole to hole showing where the actual baskets are. Turkey Creek and Sugar Bottom in Iowa use this and it works quite well.

This is the ideal set up, and this is really what I would prefer. I guess I was picturing the message board at the beginning of the course saying "Course Layout B". If you had tee signs like you're talking about it would solve the problems that bug me and also allow for more variation in the course. Nice post :thmbup:

[magictenor1]

I generally do not like multiple pins because of the uncertainty of where they are at any given time. I love multiple tees but not baskets. With that being said I have never seen a course that had 2 sets of baskets in the ground at one time. If both were available at all times then I would like it but I don't like having them moved around so that I don't know where they are.

[Cyclops]

The only local course that has 2 baskets on every hole is French Creek.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3108

I can't say I like it set up this way. Single tee with a gold and silver basket on every hole. I normally play the gold(longer pins), when I drive from the tee and get a perfect birdie for the silver. Then shoot for the gold and end up with 1 over par, it pisses me off. Many times you can see the silver baskets from the tee. The golds are only visible when your 1/2 to 3/4's of the way to the basket.

I can't tell you how many times I wanted to just take the birdie shot and play the shorts. This is also a long all woods course with no open field shots. So when you finish a round with a +15 score it irritates you. I'm happy anytime I finish with less than 10 strokes. Than you have to be honest and log that crappy arse score on the scoreboard. You see what everyone else logged and yours..........the shame. :o

[sidewinder22]

Patapsco has the long baskets power coated green(ie the green monster aka C pins) so its easy to identify(although somewhat camouflaged in the summer), but some of the short baskets in the A or B pins can get in the way of the natural fairway to the longs depending on the placement shot although most the longs are pro par 4s. I really love being able to play long when ever, but in tourneys the short baskets in place can be annoying and I've played with a number of pros that have complained about it. I'll still prefer multiple baskets.