Total noob asks a question

[zensuit]

I'm 49. I used to play Ball Golf and was a legit 1-3 handicap, not bad but compared to the really good guys I sucked.

I found Disc Golf this year and play mostly on a really tight, wooded, technical course.

I'm playing mostly with a couple of Buzzz and a couple of putters and scoring in the mid to low 60's. I'm still developing my drive so I'm relatively short but I can throw it far enough to handle most courses that aren't super long. I had some Ultimate experience so I can throw a disc backhand and sidearm and throw Hyzers and Anhyzers.

I watch group after group of expert level players throw as hard as they can off of every tee. Then I hear them at the putting area discuss their poor scores.

So here's the question:

Do you need to throw with power always to develop enough confidence to eventually bust out some low scores?

Or is this like Ball Golf where everybody tries to hit it long and very few people can?

Just curious,

Z

[RustyP]

My $.02...I believe the phrase "drive for show, putt for dough" applies to both ball golf and disc golf. Getting big distance is a plus, but I've always felt that accuracy, consistency, and a good short game will help you more when it comes to lowering your score. I don't have a big arm like a lot of other open players, but I feel that my short game is pretty solid and I've never had much of a problem being consistent out on the course...which is what allows me to be at least somewhat competitive with my peers. It also helps to be well-rounded and be comfortable throwing many different types of throws (including those trick shots that a lot of people think you'll never actually use in a round).

[Midnightbiker]

I can't drive more than 300ft so I have really worked on my short and approach game to make up for it. Just make sure you have a good putter and work on you second shots and your putts. A big arm does not always get a big score.

[Fore]

I agree with Rusty 100% on this.

[REDARMY]

i dont have a big arm either, so i just play short courses.

easy solution to the problem :)

[zensuit]

300 feet is a surprisingly long way. I suspect few people actually throw that far consistently. I appreciate the replies. I'm loving this but it's just like ball golf in that when you have a truly bad putting day you might as well pack it in!

Z

[sidewinding]

The 1000' holes are what seperate the men from the boys. Even if you throw 300' it will take 4 good throws before you can start putting.

[mike_riewer]

I believe accuracy is the deciding factor in disc golf. (the second shot).

[kpc2004]

I'm playing mostly with a couple of Buzzz and a couple of putters
Z

you may consider investing in a long distance driver because if you can learn to throw that consistant you will get more distance than with your Buzzz

[solomon.trenton]

a long drive is huge, but if you cant putt then youre screwed. so accuracy is better to have.

[borndasaur]

Accuracy will keep you out of the shule and keep your scores lower. Length comes with practice. Watch some of the recommended clinic videos and then find an empty field to practice "driving for show." You'll be surprised at the results. You must have pretty good timing to be a 1-3 hndcp ball golfer and that will eventually translate to good timing in DG which is a large part of long driving. Try some of the beginner drivers and see what works for you.

[ERicJ]

300 feet is a surprisingly long way. I suspect few people actually throw that far consistently.
Not really. A lot of DGer's can throw 300'.

400' is more of the "magic" number distance. Throwing that distance consistently is much more rare.

ERic

[nygfaninva]

I have never accurately measured my drive, but I doubt I consistently get past 300'....250+ with consistency is more like it, but I do find when playing with guys that can outdrive me I still compare fairly at the end of the round. Accuracy and consistancy, I believe, win out over long drives.....BUT both would be nice!

[magictenor1]

If you are long and accurate you have a leg up but if you don't know where your drive is going you will have some trouble scoring. If you can consistently put your approach shot close you will score well.

[bazkitcase5]

I agree with what others are saying, but I will add that once you gain a decent amount of accuracy and distance, it is better to throw the slowest speed disc that you can reach the pin with, especially when trying to hit gaps - comparable to using different clubs in golf so that you can use the same power swing every time

you never want to use "max" power, but throwing everything 90% or so allows for a more consistent release - if I can throw a mid range 300 and a driver 400, but the hole is only 290 ft., then I will use a mid range to make the shot (especially technical shots - wide open hole and I can play an easy hyzer with a driver instead)

[Geoffro]

I'm 49.

Whatever age you are, if you're new to the sport, you have nowhere to go but up in terms of your drive distance. I wouldn't write this off yet, no matter how old you are. As you drive more, you're technique will improve and more spin with result in more distance. Lesson learned: when you get out-thrown by either a little girl or a senior citizen (I have been by both), you need to work on technique, not strength.

Many posters would agree, I think, in copying the ball golf ritual of the driving range. The nice thing about disc golf (one of the nice things:)) is that you don't need a driving range. Take some drivers out to an open field and throw, throw, throw. Nothing will improve your distance like this practice.

[cc0049]

I agree with what others are saying, but I will add that once you gain a decent amount of accuracy and distance, it is better to throw the slowest speed disc that you can reach the pin with, especially when trying to hit gaps - comparable to using different clubs in golf so that you can use the same power swing every time

you never want to use "max" power, but throwing everything 90% or so allows for a more consistent release - if I can throw a mid range 300 and a driver 400, but the hole is only 290 ft., then I will use a mid range to make the shot (especially technical shots - wide open hole and I can play an easy hyzer with a driver instead)

I think that the goal for any disc golfer is to be able to throw both long and accurately and that is certainly possible. I agree with what bazkitcase has to say about throwing at 90%. You do lose some accuracy when you throw all out as hard as you can. The goal is to continue to push that ceiling up, so that what is 90% for you is gradually turning into longer throws as you continue in the sport. I don't belive in "drive for show, putt for dough". That makes it sound like driving is not as important as putting. You have to be able to drive long (and accurately) to set yourself up for the putt. There are many courses out there that don't have very long holes and on those your putting is very important to having a low score. The more difficult and what I would consider higher caliber courses have holes that are much longer than the 250-300 foot holes found on a lot of courses. Stand down the barrell of a 600-1000ft+ hole and you won't be thinking that driving is just for show.

[cc0049]

Not really. A lot of DGer's can throw 300'.

400' is more of the "magic" number distance. Throwing that distance consistently is much more rare.

ERic

This is true. What you come to expect to be the norm is all determined by who you play with and what you see on a regular basis. I am a big beliver in playing with as many different throwers as you can and on as many different courses as you can. It will really make you better. Ask people questions about what they are doing and what they are throwing and pick up what you think will help you. I think that I have developed my game by doing this more than anything else. Play tournaments and minis as often as you can...and not at the same place every time with the same people every time.

[DannyM]

Rusty...couldn't have said it better!!!.....I am one of the "weeny-arm" guys compared to most in the tourneys I play...however....my short/technical game keeps me in the match. If you play wooded courses mostly, distance is good, but accuracy is vital. I've actually beaten much better players than myself simply by staying in the "fairway". They get in open holes and can throw 350-400', where I can throw 275-325'. BUT....on the 300' TIGHT holes, or doglegs, they can't do the finesse shots that I USUALLY can do well on. Also, having the variety of shots in your bag <thumber, roller, forehand putt> is very key.

[zensuit]

This has been fun to read. I did go out in a park near my house late yesterday and throw drivers (Archangel and Eagle) until I started to see a lot more glide. It really is timing and having a consistent release. It's almost as much fun to watch a high anhyzer from the Archangel as it was to hit a big draw in ball golf. I've been throwing the Buzzz as a driver on purpose because my arm speed hasn't been up to snuff. But if there are mythic 1000 foot holes out there...well...better get to work.

My arm is now rubber, my shoulder aches and my knees are sore. And the neighbors think I'm out of my mind.

It's fun being an old guy.

Thanks for all of the helpful replies.

Z

[cc0049]

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=541
Here's a course in Round Rock, TX that has two holes over 1,000 ft.

[SoCal-Wraith]

I am in the same boat. I just stared playing and my drive is pretty short (~250 ft). I have been working on control because every time i try and throw hard i mess up my drive. I read here that '....it's all about the second shot', and this has worked for me. Even if I totally mess up my drive I can land next to the basket on my second shot and par the hole.

[Lewis]

Random thoughts on the passing scene:

You won't birdie many 320' holes with a 250' drive, so driving is definitely for dough.

A good approach can be even more valuable than a good putt. One of the best feelings for me in DG is saving par after driving into unholy shule because of a brilliant approach shot.

[Disc Chainy]

It all depends on what course you play as well. For instance, I played this course the other day: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=739
with 5 holes at or around 500' , and 4 more over 400' , (all par 3), a long drive was crucial! having a short game is important, but if you shank your drive, its nearly impossible to lay up and save par. Unless your short game allows for accurate 400 foot approach shots. Mine sure doesn't. All in all, it was a pretty frustrating experience....

[bazkitcase5]

the reason the saying "drive for show, putt for dough" holds true, is that it doesn't matter how far you can drive if you can not make the putt

for instance, if you have a 500' hole and player A can throw '500 inaccurately (very few people can throw accurately), but player B can throw '250 accurately, then they will get the same score on the hole more times than not

and going along with that thought on a 500' hole where player A can throw 500', but can not putt very well, and player B can throw 250' and can putt really well - throwing a 500' shot and getting it within 40' of the pin is a pretty accurate shot, but if you can not make the putt, then once again, you will get the same score

when all is said and done, the guy who can throw farther may steal a few extra birdies here and there, but unless they are a pro level player, they will likely take a few extra bogeys as well, so the short game is far more important in the overall scheme of things - on most courses, if you can go bogey free and your not playing against pros, then chances are, your score is plenty good

[SimonCarr]

the reason the saying "drive for show, putt for dough" holds true, is that it doesn't matter how far you can drive if you can not make the putt

on most courses, if you can go bogey free and your not playing against pros, then chances are, your score is plenty good

I really agree with this. The longer I have played this sport, the more I realize that par is actually a good score on most courses. Minimizing the bad shots is more important than getting a couple extra birdies.

[PanicKJ]

I have been playing for 7 months now and in that time I have beat up my fair share of drivers! However by shanking so many drives that I tried to throw as hard as I could in the woods I have gotten pretty good at putting it next to the hole on my next shot. My friends usually have pretty good drives and land close to the hole. I however am usually in the woods! But I have learned to put my foot behind my disc, stretch out and find a hole and flick it next to the basket.

Most of the time they will miss their putt and we all end up with a par!

I will tell you what has helped my game though. Learn to throw a putter. Just recently I started driving with my putter. It takes more finesse as a hard shot will turn the putter over. Once I started getting 180 feet with my putter then I grab my driver and throw the exact same shot and amazingly enough I can now throw my Valkyrie 260-270 without any strain and more consistently than ever! Now I know that many throw further than that but to throw that with control and ease is a milestone for me.

[zensuit]

Update.

I watched a couple of Discraft long drive videos and realized that I was trying to muscle my drives instead of using timing and glide. Also had the lightb ulb go on in terms of turning over a disc. Got a couple barely out to over 300 today and could throw 275 at 90% with some control. The coolest thing was finding out that I could throw a disc like the Buzz a solid 225-250 and predict where it was going.

Now my arm is back to really rubbery...

fun stuff,

Z

[redsfan]

Distance by itself wont allow for a great round and neither will just a short game. My home course consists of holes from 250-725 ft with most holes in the 300-400 range. Im lucky to be blessed with a big arm from all the years of baseball I have played. However my first year of disc golf i was still throwing 300-400 ft consistently but was very inaccurate and would shoot anywhere from 50-60. This is my third year playing and im consistently throwing from 400-500 ft but my main trick is i can throw a shot 90% of full power and be 95% accurate. This has allowed me to shoot about 10 shots lower on average. So all in all distance is important and so is precision, but a balance of both will allow for the best score.

[bazkitcase5]

yea, I like to tell newer players that the idea of learning to throw farther isn't so you can throw that max distance, but so that you can throw the shorter distances easier

Blake T. on disc golf review uses the term "range" - a lot of people can throw 350' but very few can range 350' - range meaning, you can throw 350' hyzer, anhyzer, or straight, all the way, on command

like for me personally, I can get in an open field to practice my distance, and throw 410' - 450' fairly consistently by getting the full S curve, etc. but while on a disc golf course, it is rare that I would throw over 400' and expect to hit a fairway that was not wide open with any consistency and land within 30 feet of the pin... however, because I have learned to throw over 400', I can throw 350' at will, whether it is a straight shot, hyzer, or anhyzer all the way and hit most gaps in the process when playing reasonably well

so the idea is to go to an open field and practice throwing farther, but with better technique, so that when you go to the course, you only throw 90% power to increase accuracy and improve your scores

[DiscChainBasket18]

Not really. A lot of DGer's can throw 300'.

400' is more of the "magic" number distance. Throwing that distance consistently is much more rare.

ERic
Agreed!

[t i m]

It all depends on what division you are planning on playing. If you want to play pro, then you have to be able to nail putts and drives. If you are playing AM (or in the MGM pro division), you place well in most tournaments without ever driving more than 300'. When playing AM (really, anything <950), it comes down to who makes the fewest mistakes; not who makes the most great shots.

With the move to Pro, no one is making many mistakes, so you have to make great shots to do well. It's a huge difference in style of play and in risk vs. reward. In AM, you can win by playing safe and taking threes; in Pro, you've got to hit those birdies or you'll never be competitive.

[Ryan P.]

overall, regardless of what division you are playing in, accuracy is much better than distance.

say for example, you have two guys playing. One can throw 300 but can't putt or approach or even throw that 300 footer accurately, while the other can throw up to 200 and put any throws on any line he wants. if they come up to a open 300 foot hole, most of the time player A gets a drive up there near the hole but two or even three putts, while player B has a 200 drive, a hundred foot approach, and probably a tap in for birdie. So here they are even.
On a 230' wooded hole, player A hits a tree at least once, has an approach, and they probably two putts. So there's a four, while player B has a beautiful drive with a 30-40 foot putt left, and gets a 2 or a 3.
One last example. you have an open 600 foot hole. Again, player A gets there in two, but two putts for a 4. Player B takes three to get there, but takes only one putt, and arrives at a 4 also. The only time where I can think that player A would be at an advantage would be on a hole longer than six-seven hundred feet, But how many of those do you run across? I've played one. Granted, I haven't played that many courses, but I think the point is clear, and the phrase is still true that we, "drive for show, putt for dough."

[Omega SuperSloth]

going for birdies will probaly win you more rounds but going for par will get some wins too when all your buddies are trying to ace every hole and tap in their birds or on windy days, plus sometimes its nice to never come in last. try to play against the course not the other players,like poker think of the best percentage shot on each throw and remember shooting a birdey then a bogey is just like shooting 2 pars, people might score more points than koby on any given night but if they cant make it when it matters whats the point

[RustyP]

The 1000' holes are what seperate the men from the boys. Even if you throw 300' it will take 4 good throws before you can start putting.
AMEN! This is one of the things I love about courses designed by John Houck (and others...just don't know 'em by name)...he incorporates a lot of par 4 and 5 holes, which can level the playing field a bit and show who has the most well-rounded game. THIS is why we need more courses with multiple-shot holes (meaning, it takes more than 1 really good driver to get to the pin).

[ERicJ]

...if they come up to a open 300 foot hole, [...] player B has a 200 drive, a hundred foot approach, and probably a tap in for birdie. ...
How many open 300' holes are par 4??

[sidewinding]

Disc golf is like a pair of scissors. One blade is accuracy and the other blade is distance. Both blades working together is obviously going to work much better than either blade by itself.

[solomon.trenton]

Disc golf is like a pair of scissors. One blade is accuracy and the other blade is distance. Both blades working together is obviously going to work much better than either blade by itself.

very unique but well said

[Midnightbiker]

Whatever age you are, if you're new to the sport, you have nowhere to go but up in terms of your drive distance. I wouldn't write this off yet, no matter how old you are. As you drive more, you're technique will improve and more spin with result in more distance. Lesson learned: when you get out-thrown by either a little girl or a senior citizen (I have been by both), you need to work on technique, not strength.

Many posters would agree, I think, in copying the ball golf ritual of the driving range. The nice thing about disc golf (one of the nice things:)) is that you don't need a driving range. Take some drivers out to an open field and throw, throw, throw. Nothing will improve your distance like this practice.

I agree. I had trouble throwing into the wind. I went to the practice field on a very windy day (15-20mph) and just started throwing into the wind. I learning real fast that my Valkyrie does not like being thrown into the wind, but my DX Viking cuts through the wind like butter. I was quite suprised. The practice paid off yesterday because I was quite windy yesterday, and my Viking did great.

[RustyP]

It all depends on what division you are planning on playing. If you want to play pro, then you have to be able to nail putts and drives. If you are playing AM (or in the MGM pro division), you place well in most tournaments without ever driving more than 300'. When playing AM (really, anything <950), it comes down to who makes the fewest mistakes; not who makes the most great shots.

With the move to Pro, no one is making many mistakes, so you have to make great shots to do well. It's a huge difference in style of play and in risk vs. reward. In AM, you can win by playing safe and taking threes; in Pro, you've got to hit those birdies or you'll never be competitive.

Blake T of DGR.com put it this way...kinda:

Am level skills + Am level consistency = Am scores
Pro level skills + Am level consistency = High Am / low Pro scores
Am level skills + Pro level consistency = High Am / low Pro scores
Pro level skills + Pro level consistency = Pro scores