Why does everybody hate the Archangel?

[zensuit]

I'm throwing an archangel 168 off of most tee pads that require driver on a tight, woody, very technical course. Every time I pull the thing out somebody makes a puking motion or suggests I change drivers. Since it does the same thing every time I throw it (throw it with a little more than slight anhyzer and it curves very nicely right and returns almost the exact same amount left) and I spend almost no time in deep shule so why does everybody seem convinced that this is the disc from hell?

I have a bad shoulder so I can only throw about 75% but I get plenty of distance for an old man.

I bought a second one and am afraid I will be run off the course.

Why does this disc get NO love?

Z

[DWill]

It's in the top sellers list on DiscGolfCenter (http://www.discgolfcenter.com), so it can't be all that bad. http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/noidea.gif

[BENFTS]

when i tore my shoulder i used a Dx archangel while changing over from RHBH to LHBH. it worked great for me too, it has great potential when thrown at less than full strength. now due to lots of practice and great flight of the archangel i am better LHBH than i ever was RHBH. i don't use this disc now because i have developed too much snap for it but it was almost a "go to driver" for me for two months.

[DirtyMittenDG]

I use my Archangel as a "risk a disc", lol. (I might like it better though if it wasnt a 144)

[AdamH]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the disc, but I'm not a fan since it's only available in DX plastic.

[kpc2004]

I have two archangels and neither of them have had much use until recently. an AA is one of the only 2 disc types i can get a nice right curve on the make a good drive on a a hole that doglegs right (the other being a roadrunner thrown at full speed that thing always takes off right lol)

[solomon.trenton]

when i tore my shoulder i used a Dx archangel while changing over from RHBH to LHBH. it worked great for me too, it has great potential when thrown at less than full strength. now due to lots of practice and great flight of the archangel i am better LHBH than i ever was RHBH. i don't use this disc now because i have developed too much snap for it but it was almost a "go to driver" for me for two months.

the archangel is more for those who cant throw at 100%. thats why most of us dont like them when we are healthy.

[discgolforegon]

well... you could solve the DX problem by getting either a CE Archangel, or a CFR one.

I only use Champion plastic.

[nygfaninva]

Archangel was the most consistent driver I threw. I could count on it to fly the same and go about the same distance each time, so it was my favorite until a friend introduced me to the Roadrunner. Now I keep the AA as a back up and throw RR's which is just as consistent. I'm still a fan and didn't know of any bias against AA.

[DiscChainBasket18]

A red DX AA was one of my first discs. Haven't thrown one lately but I'm guessing it'd be a flippy sister

[kpc2004]

if anyone is lookin for a DX AA or two in great shape for a DX driver, one or two small dings, i will let them go CHEAP!!!! i have a bright red/pink one and a white one...PM me if interested.

[Geoffro]

...why does everybody seem convinced that this is the disc from hell?

Z

Given the name, it seems unlikely you could make a case that it's from hell. Maybe occasionally delivering the wrath of God, but not from hell.

[zensuit]

I expected some serious flamage...thanks for replying with a modicum of respect!

Z

[Omega SuperSloth]

i dont i hate dx you cant ever tell if its you or the disc

[Texconsinite]

Waited for Jungle Tim to chime in on this, but guess I'll do it. Tim's good buddy Ninja Tom (almost like his doppleganger, really) Throws about 310, and has an Archangel in his bag. I don't know how he does it, but even though its beat in a bit, he still controls it just fine. Its not his favorite disc by any means, but he likes it well enough to keep it in his bag.

So, perhaps its not just for old guys and gimps afterall.

And dont hate on DX, DX is awesome!!

[Omega SuperSloth]

if people quit buying dx then they would quit making it lowering the price of their next cheapest plastic which is pro and does anyone think dx is better than pro. dx is also bad for the evironment since it dosnt take very long to become almost worthless ive gone through ten dx discs sicnce i bought my oldest champ disc and i throw that disc on almost every hole and its never changed, unless i lose it ill probally never need to replace it

[Jimb]

I expected some serious flamage...thanks for replying with a modicum of respect!

Z

You're just beggin' for someone to cut loose, aren't you? ;)

I didn't like my DX AA at all at first when I was starting out (hated it actually). This seems really weird because most of what I've heard here and on the Innova site is that it's a good beginner disc. For some reason, I just took an immediate liking to the Valkyrie and my AA just sat. I've thrown it a little more recently and I don't hate it any more. I just think that it took me a while to grasp my technique better and understand how even different drivers fly totally differently.

For me, though, at the end of the day I still prefer my Champ Sidewinder for a really understable disc vs. the DX AA. But it's definitely nice to have as a backup disc.

[Texconsinite]

I like that dx is more understable than pro, and that it beats in faster. I play with allot of discs, so dotn use any single disc very often. Thus, I have DX discs that are in different stages of wear and do different things. If you used a pair of shoes as often and half as roughly as you threw a DX disc, your toes would be seeing sunshine much sooner than your DX discs would be "worthless", IMO.

Plus, on the flip side of the lifespan of the disc is how long, on average, do you throw a disc until it gets lost? I find, that in the time it takes me to "beat in" a DX disc, i usually lose it. And since it costs half the price of a Champ/Star disc, its easier to replace.

Ive gone through 6 Pro D XL's, and not one of them has ever gotten too beat in for me to use. I just eventually lose them, and buy a new one. But I know now how they will fly and how they will age, so I know how to use it and what to expect.

I understand your argument for premium plastic. In fact, I prefer many midranges, putters, and some drivers in premium, so their flight will stay the same over time. But DX will always have a place in my bag as well, and I see DX as a vital piece of the game, and I would personally miss it if it were ever to get discontinued.

[Omega SuperSloth]

they could at least step it up to JLS Plastic i mean after all they make that too . Would you rather be hit by a dx or a champion

[Three Putt]

Part of the problem with the AA the fact that stable to overstable discs beat into good turnover discs. Understable discs (DX or not) beat into...well, if you flip them over you can use them as a dog food bowl. Other than that they are crap. So for most people and understable disc in a dense plastic that takes longer to beat in is preferable, since the disc is going to be crap once it beats in. Unfortunately in the case of the AA, runs in premium plastic drastically altered the flight. A Champ AA is quite overstable and not at all like the DX AA. So, to get that flippy-out-of-the-box discs the AA is supposed to be, it has to be run in DX. The Roadrunner is faster and comes in Champ, so most people I know who probably would throw the AA if they did not have another option throw the Champ RR.

[Omega SuperSloth]

they made a champ AA

[kpc2004]

yeah my buddy has a CFR champ AA, i like it better than my DX ones, but thats probably cause i never use the DX ones or any other DX disc

[Omega SuperSloth]

maybe some innova spies will read this thread and realize people like that disc but better plastic please ;);):confused:

[kpc2004]

maybe some innova spies will read this thread and realize people like that disc but better plastic please ;);):confused:

we can always hope lol

[zensuit]

Part of the problem with the AA the fact that stable to overstable discs beat into good turnover discs. Understable discs (DX or not) beat into...well, if you flip them over you can use them as a dog food bowl. Other than that they are crap. So for most people and understable disc in a dense plastic that takes longer to beat in is preferable, since the disc is going to be crap once it beats in. Unfortunately in the case of the AA, runs in premium plastic drastically altered the flight. A Champ AA is quite overstable and not at all like the DX AA. So, to get that flippy-out-of-the-box discs the AA is supposed to be, it has to be run in DX. The Roadrunner is faster and comes in Champ, so most people I know who probably would throw the AA if they did not have another option throw the Champ RR.

Thanks! This makes sense.

[landon77]

I use to throw it, but my power increased and I needed and found better discs. It sounds like it is good for some though, if it works don't fix it.

[Three Putt]

they made a champ AAUh, yeah...I know. As I said, it is quite overstable. It flies quite a bit differently than the DX AA.

[Omega SuperSloth]

i guess after i read the part about champ AA i got exicted and didnt read the rest my bad :confused: that may still be a cool disc make it AA Long fade

[JR Stengele]

Where would you find a champ AA? I thought someone said there was a CE AA but that is not possible " I think" cause they stopped making CE before they made the AA...." I think".

[kpc2004]

its a CFR disc, check ebay

[kpc2004]

here is one...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Authentic-CE-ArchAngel-Champion-Edition-GOLF-DISC_W0QQitemZ360121625370QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDisc_ Golf?hash=item360121625370&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[kpc2004]

another...
http://discaroo.com/w/id/7604/Innova/CFR/Archangel/disc-detail.asp