Par 4, 5 ???

[Legend KILLer]

I've had this question for a while now

How far does a hole need to be for it to be a par 4 or a par 5?

I've never seen one yet and I'm starting to think they don't exist in our sport.

MONDO

[borndasaur]

Come to Charlotte and play Renny Gold. #11 is 1042' and #13 is 974', both are listed as par 5's.

[optidiscic]

Nockamixon hole 6...precise 200 foot drive to landing area then a 600 foot drive down a narrow but fair fairway....This hole has never been Eagled, rarely birdied, 5 is an accomplishment. It used to be hole one...pretty funny seeing players walking to hole 2 already with 8,9, or 10 on their scorecard.

[shirfan]

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf

Check out hole one on this course...
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3037&mode=hi

Not only long, but it's a quite narrow fairway down a ski hill, with dense woods on either side. If I throw a 5 on it, I'm ecstatic.

[valkyriefb11]

Nockamixon hole 6...precise 200 foot drive to landing area then a 600 foot drive down a narrow but fair fairway....This hole has never been Eagled, rarely birdied, 5 is an accomplishment. It used to be hole one...pretty funny seeing players walking to hole 2 already with 8,9, or 10 on their scorecard.

That hole is one that makes you want to cry after playing it. I somehow managed a 6 the first time I played that hole and was so happy.

Tyler State Park holes 5 & 14 in the C-pin placement are over 700 ft through thick woods. Both of these are par 5's are you'll need every shot.

[scarpfish]

The PDGA makes distinctions on this based on hole foliage and skill level. For pro level players on an open hole for instance, par 4 starts at about 600 feet, Par 5 at 900 feet. On a wooded hole, Par 4 starts at 450, and Par 5 at 750.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf

The longest permanent holes I've played are over 800 feet, so yes, they do exist, but they aren't practical in a lot of DG parks.

[Adam Schneider]

Here's an interesting rule of thumb I read once for calculating par: take the MINIMUM number of strokes it would take a typical player to reach the pin with a perfect drive, then add 2. So, with a 300' hole, you could theoretically reach it in 1, so it's a par 3. A 500' hole can NOT be reached with one stroke (by 99.99% of players), so it's a par 4.

[optidiscic]

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3037&mode=hi
I have a new course on my wish list.....Tyler in the longs seems like it would amazingly nasty...Nockamixon has 14 holes temporarily and 8 are par 4s 1 par 5 and the 5 par 3s are real tough...These are not inflated pars either, I believe of all the PDGA world championships this course had the highest scores ever. Funny to watch the pros complain and marvel at the same time.

[valkyriefb11]

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3037&mode=hi
I have a new course on my wish list.....Tyler in the longs seems like it would amazingly nasty...Nockamixon has 14 holes temporarily and 8 are par 4s 1 par 5 and the 5 par 3s are real tough...These are not inflated pars either, I believe of all the PDGA world championships this course had the highest scores ever. Funny to watch the pros complain and marvel at the same time.

Optidisc,
Do you know if Knockamixon is ever going to be 18 holes again?
Just to show how hard Knocky your score there is often worse than the average score you'd get on 18 holes.

[optidiscic]

Nockadiscin is currently only 14 holes because of some herons who decided to roost above holes 15-18.....bastards...there was a meeting last night and the new Park manager is the old guy from Moraine in PA..a former top ten course..he is a fan of disc golf and the spirit of volunteerism the club has shown, the problem is the buerocrats who claim these birds are threatened...such a joke...Sometimes I wish we was in Texas those birds would be long gone haha...I also think that the Flip City and Idlewild zealots are somehow controlling the herons so that Nocky can t crack the top ten HAAHa! All in fun here!

[ERicJ]

It has been a while since the forum has seen a "What is Par?" type thread pop up...

Search through some of the old threads and you find literally hours of reading on what par should be set at including debates of distances for par 4's and 5's.

If you want courses, start off with The LINKS Largo (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2576&mode=hi), 10 par 4's and two par 5's.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_files/2576/4eb30cb8.jpg

[Olorin]

It looks like Eric beat me again in replying to a par thread. :(

[magictenor1]

I was about to say that Olorin has a pretty fair way to determine par called Cr or close range par. i should let him fill in the details. it has been discussed before of course. The par contest is over so you didn't actually lose this time Olorin.

[Legend KILLer]

Thanks guys for the clarification and insight. I'm in San Luis Obispo, Ca and I'm a student so unfortunately I can't go to most of the parks you guys mentioned but I will definitely keep them in mind if I ever find myself in that area.

Now I have another question stemming from the Par Guidelines PDF Scrapfish and some other members put up.

Obviously, the Red tees are the shortest tees and the Gold are the farthest, but what is the rating given under each mean?

MONDO

[Lewis]

Those are player ratings given to PDGA members based on how well they've scored in competition. They serve the same function in disc golf as a handicap does in ball golf: they tell you how good somebody is. Only they're measured in some alien unit known only to the powers that be, and not in strokes. You can look up more info. on the PDGA website.

[elevated plastic]

I've played numerous par 4-5's. We always play them as par threes though. The saying in Tahoe is, they're always par 3's unless you have a va#in@.

[Olorin]

Here's a little reading to while away the dark winter nights...

What is Par? (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/What%20is%20Par?)

Then if you still want more check out the PDGA's

What is Par? (http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Ratings&Number=62882&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=02c9d0a6d6f519c6b802cdbde950157c)

[ERicJ]

First link is broken...

#include standard_5minute_edit_grumble.h

[Olorin]

I've had this question for a while now

How far does a hole need to be for it to be a par 4 or a par 5?

Gold Close Range Par

Par 2: <100 ft
Par 3: 100-500 ft
Par 4: 501- 820 ft.
Par 5: 821- 1140 ft
Par 5: >1140 ft.

*All lengths are "effective length".

[Olorin]

Trying again... What is Par? (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31)

[Tolbert]

Tyler in the longs seems like it would amazingly nasty

Keep your eye on Tyler's tournament schedule. Last summer a friend and i played the day after one of their PDGA sanctioned events and all the pins were in C position for the competition. Most difficult day of disc golf ever. (And one of the most enjoyable.)

[Olorin]

To make it easy to find I've posted a page with an explanation of Gold Close Range Par (http://sites.google.com/site/discgolfcoursedesign/par/gold-close-range-par). It includes the tables with hole lengths.

Please note that this replaces my other postings about CR Par. This now has par based only on the play of a Gold (1000 PR) player.

[valkyriefb11]

Keep your eye on Tyler's tournament schedule. Last summer a friend and i played the day after one of their PDGA sanctioned events and all the pins were in C position for the competition. Most difficult day of disc golf ever. (And one of the most enjoyable.)

If you play the Monday or Tuesday after the Eric C Yetter cup you will never forget Tyler State Park. The Yetter cup is a PDGA A tier event so they make the course hard (all in C). The Yetter Cup is Sept. 12-13 this year and you can check out other events HERE (http://www.bcdga.com/)

[zensuit]

I've played numerous par 4-5's. We always play them as par threes though. The saying in Tahoe is, they're always par 3's unless you have a va#in@.

So that means you are 12-13 over par every time when you could shoot around par if you had a vagina (it's not actually an obscene word)?

Z

[bazkitcase5]

see my post here for a discussion I started on the colored tees - I received my answers in that thread, but it does contain my attempt at a description of the different tee colors:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330

the PDGA is trying to standardize things, but it will take time for the players themselves to follow, so that every course will eventually be the same

in ball golf, even if you play a course you have never played before, you know what which color tees are for which level player, because it is the same for every course

[bazkitcase5]

the course par link is a good chart that seems fairly accurate as a general guideline for most holes

a well designed course containing par 4s and 5s will still be at a length/challenge in which the level of player those tees are designed for will shoot close to par - so if you design a gold level coures, then shooting par is close to shooting a 1000 rated round

the W.R. Jackson course at the IDGC is a close example, it is a par 69 course for gold level players and at the last big tournament, shooting a 66 was a 1000 rated round

the Red Hawk in Florida (now closed) was also a great example, as during the last round of the players cup, under calm conditions, I shot par for the course and it was rated 995