New, addicted, and eager to learn

[svenlock09]

Hey guys, this is my first post on DGCR but it is definitely not my first time on this sight. I have been reading this forum for about a month know and have really learned a lot from you all! As far as my game is concerned, I started playing back in April and have become addicted to DG very quickly. I play about twice a week and am seeing improvements almost every game. My main question at the current moment is, does my bag work well for my skills at this point? I throw RHBH with a 4 finger power grip on my drives and a fan grip for more control on my approach shots. I also throw forehand quite well and they usually fly farther than the backhand throws, but I do not really like any of my discs for that shot at the current moment (I think my FH d comes from a lot of ultimate in my background).
Anyway, here are my discs and approx distances:

167 Groove ~300 i dont really like it, bought it before i knew anything :wall: my current FH. can throw it 320ish FH disc

172 Elite-Z Avenger ~300 i usually use this disc for hyzers and wide open holes. Fades hard

175 Champ Beast~ 280 i found this disc and dont like it that well, i have trouble controlling this disc. Might b a snap or weight issue

174 DX Eagle~250 i like this disc pretty well, but i have trouble deciding when to use this disc

173 ESP Buzzz~ 250 this disc is a fun one. I can throw it fairly straight and am comfortable with it

172 DX Shark~ 150-200 on a good day. This was my first disc and i go to it when im really struggling

172 Ion (soft) i love the feel of this putter in my hand. I'm still trying to get used to putting straight instead of a hyzer into the basket, but think i made a good choice on this one

I turn my friends archangel over on a consistent basis but feel i should get an understable driver or fairway. Im currently looking into a river to fill that slot.

I know I have way too many discs for a new player, but I got caught up in the rush before i found this site. Any suggestions would be great and I'm more than happy to answer any questions.

Thanks for the help and sorry for the long post

[roadtripstuff]

First off, welcome to the site and the addiction that is disc golf.

Sounds like you have a pretty good base there, and you know enough to know the Groove sucks, kind of kidding. For the understable driver you might do well with an avenger ss, since you already seem to get good distance out of the regular avenger. Some other great understable and fairway drivers are Leopards, sidewinders, and of course the best disc ever the Valkyrie.

As for turning over the archangel, that could be your form, hard to say without seeing you throw, but there could be some OAT going on there.

[BrotherDave]

167 Groove ~300 i dont really like it, bought it before i knew anything :wall: my current FH. can throw it 320ish FH disc

172 Elite-Z Avenger ~300 i usually use this disc for hyzers and wide open holes. Fades hard Might be a bit much for you right now.

175 Champ Beast~ 280 i found this disc and dont like it that well, i have trouble controlling this disc. Might b a snap or weight issue

174 DX Eagle~250 i like this disc pretty well, but i have trouble deciding when to use this disc

173 ESP Buzzz~ 250 this disc is a fun one. I can throw it fairly straight and am comfortable with it

172 DX Shark~ 150-200 on a good day. This was my first disc and i go to it when im really struggling Maybe keep worthy if you don't feel like the Buzzz is better.

172 Ion (soft) i love the feel of this putter in my hand. I'm still trying to get used to putting straight instead of a hyzer into the basket, but think i made a good choice on this one


What Roadtripstuff said is solid. The Avenger sounds like a meathook for you, that's fine b/c every one could use a meathook. Let's keep it as your overstable/headwind driver. You like the DX Eagle? Perfect, keep that sucker and beat it flippy for understable and either get a new DX Eagle-X or a Star (or Champ) Eagle-X for the vast majority of your driving duties. An Eagle-X will also teach you good form for FH as well. If you want a harder fading mid, just get a Buzzz in Z or glow Z for right now. I also recommend an understable mid for some good form encouragement like a Comet, Fuse, Qms, etc.

If you want a disc to bomb FH with, try an OLF, a Starfire, or a S-PD for example, a driver a that is fairly overstable but not super much and isn't super fast either.

Also, try approaching with that Ion, a lot. They are great for approaches and short drives.
Welcome to your addiction. :thmbup:

[wolito]

^^ Pretty much what BrotherDave said is right on. Those faster drivers are probably way too much for you to handle. Stick with the basics and work your way up to the faster stuff. It took me nearly 3 years to get up to a beast, but worth the practice you put in to get there. Why not just stick with the Eagle, Buzzz and Ion for now. Learn those three well.

[jdggna]

Bro D. nailed it. When an Eagle is going 350 you'll see much better results from the faster discs. The Buzzz and Ion are great. Approaches with the Ion are amazing, so definitely try it for more than just putting. Its wonderful for shorter tees. The Avenger should work well for you for hyzers and headwinds for the time being.

[JTacoma03]

Since you don't like the Groove or Beast - just drop them. There's no sense in carrying discs you don't (or can't) trust to do what you want.

I'd keep the Avenger in the bag for now, but only go to it if you encounter a windy situation.

I agree with what's been said already, use fairway drivers to work on form/increase distance. A Leopard, Stalker, TL, or Eagle are good places to start.

[kcplease]

use said eagle for distance drives. use the buzzz for everything else. keep shark for falling back onto. And keep the ion for putts. as well, I say keep avenger for wind. Much of the selection depend on the courses you play, especially for me.

[svenlock09]

I also recommend an understable mid for some good form encouragement like a Comet, Fuse, Qms, etc.

If you want a disc to bomb FH with, try an OLF, a Starfire, or a S-PD for example, a driver a that is fairly overstable but not super much and isn't super fast either.

Also, try approaching with that Ion, a lot. They are great for approaches and short drives.

I was looking into the understable mids to try to help me improve my game but thought that maybe a new slower understable driver would be more beneficial. I was thinking maybe a river? But it seems the group ideology is that i should work with the mids to get my form down. I have read a lot about lat64 lately and was thinking the fuse sounded about right for my game. (also the reason I was thinking river over leopard. bad idea?)

The FH disc is definately one I think needs to be added to my bag. I was looking into the Starfire and would like to know your thoughts on the disc as well as plastic type and approx weight for me. I know that many of my discs may be too heavy for me RHBH and honestly dont know how similar weights of BH and FH discs should be.

I tend to make most of my approach shots with my shark, but after the many posts I will have to start throwing the Ion on those shots.

Thanks for all the great info guys!

[svenlock09]

Sounds like you have a pretty good base there, and you know enough to know the Groove sucks, kind of kidding. For the understable driver you might do well with an avenger ss, since you already seem to get good distance out of the regular avenger. Some other great understable and fairway drivers are Leopards, sidewinders, and of course the best disc ever the Valkyrie.

As for turning over the archangel, that could be your form, hard to say without seeing you throw, but there could be some OAT going on there.

Glad to know that I'm not the only one that isnt a fan of the groove. It fades a little hard and just doesnt have a glide 6. No way at all.

I was thinking about the avenger ss for use as an understable driver. It seems to me that it would fit nicely with my current skill set and the discs in my bag. However, should I start out learning a slower understable disc before i move up to the faster disc? I have never had doubts before that I could throw the faster discs, but outdriving your friends doesnt really mean you are ready for them yet.

Also what are some good ways to work on fixing OAT?
Once again thanks for all the feedback and help. I appreciate it.

[jdggna]

Faster understable discs have a good chance of not having as much turn as you'd expect right now. I'd go with a DX or Pro Leopard for an understable disc. The River looks good stat wise, but I've never thrown one, so I'm not sure if it flies comparatively.

[Thumber]

IMO everyone need a Teebird in their bag lol

[Monocacy]

The FH disc is definately one I think needs to be added to my bag. I was looking into the Starfire and would like to know your thoughts on the disc as well as plastic type and approx weight for me.

Starfire is speed 5 on Joe’s Flight Chart (minimum distance 325 – 375’). With a reasonably clean throw, the Eagle and Buzzz should be excellent forehand discs. Work towards being able to throw everything in your bag forehand as well as backhand.

Slower drivers are your friends. Trying to throw faster drivers may cause you to mess up your form. Ask me how I know this.:rolleyes:

I know that many of my discs may be too heavy for me RHBH and honestly dont know how similar weights of BH and FH discs should be.

You may wish to try some lighter drivers, maybe mid-high 160s. Lighter discs should fly farther than their heavier brethren while sharing similar flight characteristics. As an experiment, try throwing the same disc in different weights to see what works best for you.

[Monocacy]

Also what are some good ways to work on fixing OAT?

The best way to fix OAT is to practice driving with putters and midranges. They will fly much farther than you think, but they will turn and burn if your throw isn’t clean. Try to keep all of your throwing motion on the same plane, and avoid rolling over your wrist at the end of your throw.

A great way to learn is to find a local league or course where you can watch and talk to more experienced players.

Good luck!

[BrotherDave]

Yeah, what Monocacy and jdggna said is how I feel.

If you really want to be FH savvy, then a slower driver like an Eagle will better suit you to reinforce good habits, but if you're only going to FH occasionally when the shot calls for it like I do, I think a Starfire works well b/c it's not too fast and overstable that you can throw it like a complete torque monkey but it is fast and stable enough that if you accidentally turn it over it'll still fade back. Generally, the flatter the more overstable I've noticed for Starfires. I like them in Star, never thrown Champ, I just like Star's grip a little better.

I think a River and definitely a Fuse will benefit you. Mids and putters are better for working on form basically b/c they're slower and require more snap and spin to fly true, drivers can be strong-armed easier which is a no-no. A slow, understable driver like a River or Leo is definitely worth tossing in the field though b/c you can work on annys, turnovers, and hyzer flip lines and learn to control nose angle b/c mids and putters don't mind being thrown nose up as drivers do.

An Avenger SS would overlap with a River or Leo for you right now.

[SpyderPride]

The best way to fix OAT is to practice driving with putters and midranges. They will fly much farther than you think, but they will turn and burn if your throw isn’t clean. Try to keep all of your throwing motion on the same plane, and avoid rolling over your wrist at the end of your throw.
I have a quick question whose answer may help me and the OP.

I have a 168g DX Shark that is starting to get a little wear and a 175g S Wizard that is pretty nicked up but still flies fine. A full throw with the Shark will carve out an extremely small s-curve (mostly straight) out to about 270' or so if I get the height right. The Wizard under the same conditions (but a little higher) will make it out to about 250' or so with the smallest s-curve imaginable, almost undetectable. Is this any indicator of the amount of OAT generated by my form? I haven't got the Summit in the mail yet, so that will possibly be more telling.

[BrotherDave]

OAT is seen by your disc fluttering or wobbling initially in flight or by a disc turning too hard too soon into the ground. Spyderpride, it sounds like your form is relatively OAT free, you might just not be getting enough height on those discs.

[rbsold]

I agree with all these guys, I've been play for over 4 years, and I still am not consistent with anything faster or more extreme then a beast. As you get better with your eagle and can rope it 300-325, throw the avenger or beast back in there. but stick with a fairway driver like your eagle early on, or if you dont like it, a teebird or cyclone. Shark was my first midrange, and I still use it today, though the roc is my mine disc now. buzz is solid. I just started using ions and you cant go wrong, welcome to the sport!

[svenlock09]

Slower drivers are your friends. Trying to throw faster drivers may cause you to mess up your form. Ask me how I know this.:rolleyes:


well i guess i have to ask :popcorn:

[SpyderPride]

well i guess i have to ask :popcorn:
I know it too. You body instinctually "learns" how to keep them straighter with OAT. Then once you throw slower discs, you turn-and-burn. Then you spend several excruciating weeks or months relearning how to throw without OAT.

[svenlock09]

Generally, the flatter the more overstable I've noticed for Starfires. I like them in Star, never thrown Champ, I just like Star's grip a little better.

An Avenger SS would overlap with a River or Leo for you right now.

I'm looking mainly for a driver to FH just when the situation calls for the shot at this point. I have had fairly good success with the shot and feel like my BH needs more work right now.

I was thinking the SS would overlap with the River at this point, thanks for the confirmation.

A friend owes me some money from the last time we went to the local disc golf store so I'll be picking up some new discs tomorrow: the fuse, river, starfire. I will update on how they work for me and will be sure to, as always, thank you all for all the help.

[svenlock09]

Sounds like I picked a good time to ask my questions then. I'd rather learn with the slower discs first instead of spends a long time trying to correct bad form.

[SpyderPride]

Sounds like I picked a good time to ask my questions then. I'd rather learn with the slower discs first instead of spends a long time trying to correct bad form.
Yep. I'd hold onto the Avenger and only use it when you need a long hyzer or something to drive straight into a strong headwind. The Eagle should be a good general driver for you, making a nice s-curve when you throw it correctly, but you should also consider the other recommendations in the thread. I'd keep both the Buzzz and the Shark if they give you different lines, but if not then pick one. Shelf the Groove and Beast until you can toss the Eagle like 350'+ on a consistent basis, but even then you may not want or need either of them at that point. Also, straight and hyzer putting are both acceptable methods, use whichever yields the best results.

[svenlock09]

Also, straight and hyzer putting are both acceptable methods, use whichever yields the best results.

I am still not set on a putting style. I seem to have trouble deciding which I like. Putting style and grip are still very much up in the air. Being a new player comes with a major drawback: inconsistency. My putts only do what I'm actually trying to do about 75% of the time. My drives are even more unpredictable. The distances given at the beginning of this thread are distances on my good throws. The average throw usually comes up short of those numbers, but I feel with practice they could be achieved consistently. I know I have the ability to get the discs out there, but I am not really there yet.

[prerube]

I am still not set on a putting style. I seem to have trouble deciding which I like. Putting style and grip are still very much up in the air. Being a new player comes with a major drawback: inconsistency. My putts only do what I'm actually trying to do about 75% of the time. My drives are even more unpredictable. The distances given at the beginning of this thread are distances on my good throws. The average throw usually comes up short of those numbers, but I feel with practice they could be achieved consistently. I know I have the ability to get the discs out there, but I am not really there yet.

you will change a lot. The discs you love now will be the ones you will start flipping over. practice often in an open field with light discs and you will learn quickly. I started out with all heavy discs and developed a lot of bad habits, but you are seeking help early and seem eager to take it all in, I bet you'll be dropping 5 strokes off your average game by the end of summer :thmbup:

[Mike C]

174 DX Eagle~250 i like this disc pretty well, but i have trouble deciding when to use this disc

173 ESP Buzzz~ 250 this disc is a fun one. I can throw it fairly straight and am comfortable with it

172 Ion (soft) i love the feel of this putter in my hand. I'm still trying to get used to putting straight instead of a hyzer into the basket, but think i made a good choice on this one

Take out the Groove.

Take out the Shark or Buzz, they do the same thing, pick whichever you're more comfortable with.

Take out the Avenger and Beast.

The Eagle isn't a bad driver for you to use at the moment. How worn is it? Once it's broken is some it will work well for you at the distance you're throwing. Sounds like a Leopard / Gazelle / Cyclone / Cheetah would make a good distance driver for you.

Just simplify things and stick to slow discs for now. If you look at the manufacturers flight path charts for example you'll see the Eagle is recommended for further distances than you're throwing...not to mention Avengers and Grooves. Try a slower fairway driver like the ones I listed.

The Ion and Buzz are a great combo and should make up the majority of your throws. The former can be used for straight shots at the basket or hyzer putts, just use whichever style you're most comfortable with. They both work.

[svenlock09]

you will change a lot. The discs you love now will be the ones you will start flipping over. practice often in an open field with light discs and you will learn quickly. I started out with all heavy discs and developed a lot of bad habits, but you are seeking help early and seem eager to take it all in, I bet you'll be dropping 5 strokes off your average game by the end of summer :thmbup:

I am definately very open to all ideas and any advice you all can give me. I am much more addicted to DG than my friends so I have no one to really talk about all this stuff with (hence all the questions and long posts).

[roadtripstuff]

I am definately very open to all ideas and any advice you all can give me. I am much more addicted to DG than my friends so I have no one to really talk about all this stuff with (hence all the questions and long posts).

Have you watched any instructional videos yet? There are quite a few good ones out there.

[svenlock09]

Take out the Groove. You dont have to tell me twice, I really dont like this disc. I'll gladly take it out! :)

The Eagle isn't a bad driver for you to use at the moment. How worn is it? Once it's broken is some it will work well for you at the distance you're throwing.

My Eagle has some big nicks in it, but isnt really broken in. Just a lot of bad glances off trees. I have heard they are better broken in and cant wait to see what I can do with it when that happens.

[svenlock09]

Have you watched any instructional videos yet? There are quite a few good ones out there.

I've watched a few of the discraft videos on youtube and they have been helpful. I need to watch some more though. I think they could really help improve my form

[roadtripstuff]

I've watched a few of the discraft videos on youtube and they have been helpful. I need to watch some more though. I think they could really help improve my form

Yeah the discraft videos are all very good, as well as the Dan Beato videos. Just search his name on youtube, or hell in this forum for that matter, and you will see it. Its one of the best out there.

[SpyderPride]

I am still not set on a putting style. I seem to have trouble deciding which I like. Putting style and grip are still very much up in the air. Being a new player comes with a major drawback: inconsistency. My putts only do what I'm actually trying to do about 75% of the time. My drives are even more unpredictable. The distances given at the beginning of this thread are distances on my good throws. The average throw usually comes up short of those numbers, but I feel with practice they could be achieved consistently. I know I have the ability to get the discs out there, but I am not really there yet.

I am definately very open to all ideas and any advice you all can give me. I am much more addicted to DG than my friends so I have no one to really talk about all this stuff with (hence all the questions and long posts).
You are in the same boat as me, except I have gotten pretty consistent with the driving. My approaching and putting are garbage though. The touch/feel stuff is the same as any other sport, get yourself a good fundamentally sound technique then practice your brains out. Watch videos of yourself and others, mimic and copy, get out there and throw as much as you can. If you can go to the park and putt at trees, that is helpful. Playing catch with someone is even better.

[CwAlbino]

Drop the beast and groove, keep everything else. Shark and buzzz are good compliments of understable and stable/overstable. Ion for approaches and putting. Eagle will be your distance driver, but the buzzz should be right up there with it. Avenger for windy conditions and hyzers, if your eagle was a different plastic, I'd take the avenger out too. The eagle will beat in pretty quickly though.

[BrotherDave]

Yeah the discraft videos are all very good, as well as the Dan Beato videos. Just search his name on youtube, or hell in this forum for that matter, and you will see it. Its one of the best out there.

Hell, I'll do it for him, that's how much of a cool guy I am. These vids have been very instrumental for my improvement.

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This one (it's a 2 parter) is great for understanding "snap."

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[svenlock09]

Hell, I'll do it for him, that's how much of a cool guy I am. These vids have been very instrumental for my improvement.

This one (it's a 2 parter) is great for understanding "snap."

thanks! i can def use the help. snap is my biggest weakness at times so these help a lot! :)

[svenlock09]

So I went to the disc golf store and got a GL Fuse. I love that thing! Thanks for the advice. They dodnt have Rivers in stock yet :( but I'll be sure to get one to work on my slower disc form. Thanks again!

[svenlock09]

So I got my new discs and have been playing a lot with them. The slower discs have really been helping me work and form and getting more consistent distance. I absolutely love my pink Opto River and really like the GL Fuse. I really am a fan of these Lat64 discs! My dx eagle has gotten pretty beat up and really needs to be replaced. (have been playing some new courses in windy conditions, dx plus wind plus roads equals BAD). Also have played a bit with a friends teebird. Since I want to replace the eagle and I like the teebird and I'm in love with Lat64, I was thinking about picking up an Opto Striker. Does this sound like a good idea?

Thanks for any feedback!

[Jax11]

Though many have compared Opto Strikers to Teebirds, I personally feel Strikers are much faster then Teebirds. Its not a bad choice especially if you like the Lat 64 discs. There is still the possibility of it being too much disc for you, but you can easily work up to it.

If you like the Lat 64 stuff you have to check out a Gold Line Core. It is a stable flying mid-range, much like a Buzz. It has revolutionized my mid-range game.

Good luck on your discing down adventures.

[svenlock09]

Though many have compared Opto Strikers to Teebirds, I personally feel Strikers are much faster then Teebirds. Its not a bad choice especially if you like the Lat 64 discs. There is still the possibility of it being too much disc for you, but you can easily work up to it.

If you like the Lat 64 stuff you have to check out a Gold Line Core. It is a stable flying mid-range, much like a Buzz. It has revolutionized my mid-range game.

Good luck on your discing down adventures.

A friend of mine recently bought a core. I cant wait to try it out!

[svenlock09]

Though many have compared Opto Strikers to Teebirds, I personally feel Strikers are much faster then Teebirds. Its not a bad choice especially if you like the Lat 64 discs. There is still the possibility of it being too much disc for you, but you can easily work up to it.

If you like the Lat 64 stuff you have to check out a Gold Line Core. It is a stable flying mid-range, much like a Buzz. It has revolutionized my mid-range game.

Good luck on your discing down adventures.

How would my dx eagle compare to the striker? I do feel I need a disc such as the eagle or teebird in my bad but my dx eagle is getting too beat to use at all. One reason I was thinking striker is because lat64's opto plastic is indestructible and I wouldnt have to worry about it having the same fate as my eagle.

[BrotherDave]

A DX Eagle is easier to flip IMO than an Opto Striker. I agree w/ Jax's assessment of Strikers being a bit faster than Teebirds. A Striker won't fight back to fade as hard as an Eagle would, even a new DX Eagle won't turn and burn as severely.

I suggest trying some hyzer flips with the Eagle before you get a Striker, hyzer flipping discs have more than extended the bag life of my flippy discs and beat Eagles can do some crazy hyzer flips. The Striker is a cool disc though, combined with a River it's probably a pretty sound driver tandem.

[svenlock09]

A DX Eagle is easier to flip IMO than an Opto Striker. I agree w/ Jax's assessment of Strikers being a bit faster than Teebirds. A Striker won't fight back to fade as hard as an Eagle would, even a new DX Eagle won't turn and burn as severely.

I suggest trying some hyzer flips with the Eagle before you get a Striker, hyzer flipping discs have more than extended the bag life of my flippy discs and beat Eagles can do some crazy hyzer flips. The Striker is a cool disc though, combined with a River it's probably a pretty sound driver tandem.

Thanks guys! I think my bag is finally set now. Thanks again for all the help!