underbrush?

[ClearwaterDGC]

This is hole number 8 on our course, and I am wondering if the small underbrush should be removed or is it plenty clear to the basket? Left of the fence line is a sharp downhill slope which is a really bad spot to be...but, playable...should the fence line be OB? It is on the property, and just an old fence..

The shot is 210 feet.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg174/bcboy72/misc003a.jpg

[DavidSauls]

Certainly desirable to clear the underbrush. How necessary it is depends on the chance of a bad shot landing in it, and also how tall it's likely to grow if you don't tend to it.

The fence as O.B. depends in large part on how challenging you want to make it. But also consider the shot that lands right at the foot of the fence. If it's not OB, the thrower may have a tough stance, especially if it's barbered wire. If the fence is OB and the disc lands inbounds, they'll get a meter relief towards the basket; does that put them too close? Also think about whether discs going OB near the basket will be easy-circle-3s, as opposed to where the lie might be if the fence is just a casual hazard.

[Karl]

If the course designer's idea is to have that brush act as an impediment to hinder the efficiency of a certain type of throw, it should be left "as is". If this isn't a consideration, then eliminating it will improve on disc finding, asthetics, etc.

Karl

[ClearwaterDGC]

Certainly desirable to clear the underbrush. How necessary it is depends on the chance of a bad shot landing in it, and also how tall it's likely to grow if you don't tend to it.

The fence as O.B. depends in large part on how challenging you want to make it. But also consider the shot that lands right at the foot of the fence. If it's not OB, the thrower may have a tough stance, especially if it's barbered wire. If the fence is OB and the disc lands inbounds, they'll get a meter relief towards the basket; does that put them too close? Also think about whether discs going OB near the basket will be easy-circle-3s, as opposed to where the lie might be if the fence is just a casual hazard.

Ok, then I like the idea of it not being OB...as yeah, that 1m rule could allow for some easy 2nd (3rd) shots...but it would mean an extra stroke regardless...so which is better...a poor lie, or a penalty stroke with a good shot?

If the course designer's idea is to have that brush act as an impediment to hinder the efficiency of a certain type of throw, it should be left "as is". If this isn't a consideration, then eliminating it will improve on disc finding, asthetics, etc.

Karl

We didn't have the luxury of a "designer" per se...just myself and my girlfriend...so, we weren't sure if it/they should be left or not.. So far it really hasn't impeded any of our throws..but someone that throws a lot more level and low it might? Maybe this is a good thing?

[ClearwaterDGC]

I should add, looking at it now...that the distance is deceiving..the brush in question is only about 50-60' ahead of the tee pad, and the basket is another 150ish feet past that..a straight disc that finishes right (rhsarm?...or possibly and archangel?), or a light anhyzer toss work very well..as there is a straight shot at the basket if you can finish to the right..otherwise there are trees..

[solomon.trenton]

it depends on how tall and thick it is. if its only like 1-2` it shouldnt be that big of a deal. any taller or super think i would say clear it

[DavidSauls]

That is deceiving in the photo.

What type of plants constitute the underbrush? It looks like if they grow 3' taller, you'll be left with an overhand shot, or at least a greatly changed hole. And if someone throws low and hits them, what kind of mess will he be in?

I have a private course with O.B. near baskets, but you have to be careful with it. If a shot goes over the fence and the lie, with relief, is 15' from the basket, you get a penalty stroke but a boring short putt for a "3". If the lie is 30-35' away, well, you've got a chance for a 3 or a 4, more interesting.

If it's not OB and you go left of fence, you've got a chance for a long putt for a 2....or a long putt missed for a 3.....can you also get in trouble where a 4 is likely? At any rate, it's probably more interesting shots, and the outcome dependent on both the drive and second shot, not just the drive and OB line.

[Karl]

Pic IS deceiving - but you've straightened out our perception!

Any stuff like that DOES take away roller considerations (viable for some, a non-issue for those who don't have that shot).

Line of sight (as to where the disc kinda ends up) IS a major consideration IF there IS some sort of OB, could lose a disc in it crap SOMEWHERE down by the basket...as if you don't have a clue where you might have ended up, you'll have trouble finding the disc.

Besides that, maybe have it like US Open rough - grow it taller come tournament time ;) !!

Karl

Ps: David said OVERHANDS (yeah :thmbup::p )

[optidiscic]

Underbrush is bad. Trees are good.

[DavidSauls]

Ps: David said OVERHANDS (yeah :thmbup::p )

I feel so ashamed.

[ClearwaterDGC]

That is deceiving in the photo.

What type of plants constitute the underbrush? It looks like if they grow 3' taller, you'll be left with an overhand shot, or at least a greatly changed hole. And if someone throws low and hits them, what kind of mess will he be in?

The brush will eventually get taller...and the prohibiting of shot is what I was concerned about..especially someone that throws fairly flat..(and is short like me..lol)

I have a private course with O.B. near baskets, but you have to be careful with it. If a shot goes over the fence and the lie, with relief, is 15' from the basket, you get a penalty stroke but a boring short putt for a "3". If the lie is 30-35' away, well, you've got a chance for a 3 or a 4, more interesting.

If it's not OB and you go left of fence, you've got a chance for a long putt for a 2....or a long putt missed for a 3.....can you also get in trouble where a 4 is likely? At any rate, it's probably more interesting shots, and the outcome dependent on both the drive and second shot, not just the drive and OB line.
going over the fence to the left isn't the end of the world, but it is a tough par...and it is more line of sight for the basket, as oppose to "trouble" I guess..as it is a steep treed bank..probably looking at a tomahawk to get it out and over the top again..

Pic IS deceiving - but you've straightened out our perception!

Any stuff like that DOES take away roller considerations (viable for some, a non-issue for those who don't have that shot).

Line of sight (as to where the disc kinda ends up) IS a major consideration IF there IS some sort of OB, could lose a disc in it crap SOMEWHERE down by the basket...as if you don't have a clue where you might have ended up, you'll have trouble finding the disc.

Besides that, maybe have it like US Open rough - grow it taller come tournament time ;) !!

Karl

Ps: David said OVERHANDS (yeah :thmbup::p )

I don't forsee any lost discs on this hole...you can certainly tell if it goes over the bank, and while there is underbrush down past and to the left of the hole..you would still find your disc. Going past the basket would be pretty tough unless you went straight down the fence line...and even then..


We still have a lot of brushing to do on this course as it is new, and I don't want new players (especially) spending hours looking for discs...but I also don't want to take too much of the challenge out of it..

So, should we be looking at removing all head level and lower branches off the trees in fairways as well?

I am heading to the course this morning with the brush mower to take care of a couple knapweed infested fairways...will try to snap a few more photos of the brushy holes..

I certainly appreciate the input!!!

[DavidSauls]

So, should we be looking at removing all head level and lower branches off the trees in fairways as well?



There's no certain answer---depends on the situation, and your designs. In general, less underbush is better. Looks neater and cleaner, and less searching for discs.

If the underbrush is trees you cut down, regrowing from their roots, they'll sprout very fast and you'll be in a constant battle with them. Some other types of plants max out at a certain height, so you can leave them if you want a barrier to clear.

If you limb up everything to waist height, people can find their discs but still have impeded shots. Which may be more challenging, or just frustrating. If you limb up to head level, you make it easy to walk through and throw out of.

[wolito]

Yeah trees are one thing but when that underbrush gets too high, then it can impede any direct throw. A loft putt to get over that would be required. Just think of it as a mando of such. As long as next to the basket there is some opening that allows a reasonable putt.

[optidiscic]

Frustration on a course should be limited to your score and never involve lost discs, disc searches, scratches, or standing in a bush and getting torn up. Do yourself a favor remove the underbrush as it will simply become a maintenance issue and a buzzkill for ALL levels of players...as a lover of wooded courses I can't stress enough the need to clear the underbrush from the entire fairways and the areas on either side.

Bottom Line

Trees influence the airways and do not impede fun or affect lost discs

Brush doesnt affect airways and can only cause disc retrieval problems

Disc Golf is about what your disc does in the air (trees play a great role in forming fairways and force line shaping) What happens when your disc is on the ground is limited to skips and rollers which brush also negatively affects......I think difficult over bush lobs etc....are best reserved for saving your azz when your way off the fairway

[ClearwaterDGC]

Frustration on a course should be limited to your score and never involve lost discs, disc searches, scratches, or standing in a bush and getting torn up. Do yourself a favor remove the underbrush as it will simply become a maintenance issue and a buzzkill for ALL levels of players...as a lover of wooded courses I can't stress enough the need to clear the underbrush from the entire fairways and the areas on either side.




This was kind of my thought...we are trying to get new people out, and the last thing we want is them having to search for borrowed discs for a long time..and the brush clearing along the fairways is under way...just need more volunteers!! Anyone heard that before? lol

As for the brush in question, and the fence line...we had a couple players out here that play a lot, and a lot of tournament play...and their take was the brush in question isn't a problem..there is one tree that should come out to provide a line to the basket...and the fence line should be OB, with a drop zone where a VERY well placed putt can get you in...but not an easy one..

Having some people on the course that know what they are doing certainly is a blessing..lol..and it turns out, they are pretty fond of the layout, which is an added bonus. We have lots of room for expansion to put in more technical holes for later/different tournament play..

Thanks again to all and I will post more trouble spots!

[mabraddock]

Trees influence the airways and do not impede fun or affect lost discs

Brush doesnt affect airways and can only cause disc retrieval problems


i am with opti on this one... no one wants to spend the day searching for ticks, mow a defined fair way and plant or encourage existing trees. your course will be fine in no time without coming across as a ragged hack with my disc as if it was a machete kinda course...

[BogeyNoMore]

Hard to tell from the photo in the OP, but it doesn't look like there's much room to land around that basket.

Trees influence the airways and do not impede fun or affect lost discs

Brush doesnt affect airways and can only cause disc retrieval problems

Disc Golf is about what your disc does in the air (trees play a great role in forming fairways and force line shaping) What happens when your disc is on the ground is limited to skips and rollers which brush also negatively affects......I think difficult over bush lobs etc....are best reserved for saving your azz when you're way off the fairway
Well said, think I'm on the same wavelength. I can live having to shape a line around an island of brush on a hole, or avoiding brush that intrudes into the fairway, as that too, can force a certain line, but I can't stand when you throw a drive that should set you up well for a birdie or par, only to have trouble finding my disc due to excessive vegetation.