Anti-Noob courses?

[optidiscic]

So had an interesting convo the other day....half in jest half serious.......centered on the idea of obstacles that would ensure noobs don't like your course and wont come back.

Ideas ranged from zero signage to difficulty level but also to high grass for the first 250 ft of a fairway, keeping that nasty schule along the 0-200 foot edge of the left fairway to gobble up hyzers (Noob Boss eaters?) lots and lots of sinister ideas to punish early hyzers. Mostly light hearted and being a mid level player myself I'm on the fence regarding NOOB Hate (its ignorant and rude players I hate and most of them happen to be noobs but not always) So what concepts have u seen or even dreamt of.

Cali has secret courses

PA clubs seem to want to build tough courses

(this is supposed to be fun)

High Grass, Thorns , Lakes, any Ideas?

[medicinalfunk]

pay to play

[BucketBonanza]

punji pits


(you are a noob hater. don't lie. they are all sharpening their katanas and lying in wait for you)

[Danger]

Diamond X (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1189)

[ArcheType]

Well, you could gather a bunch of d-bag noob haters to stand around and pretend they were always good at the game and didn't start out throwing less than 350 and using drivers too high speed for them. You could then form them into a military regime and actively campaign against noobs like a hilter-esque germany.

OR, you could play your game, and let others play theirs. Have a nice day :)

(definitely anti- noob hate, myself)

[DavidSauls]

Go with a couple of long water crossings. Losing a couple of discs is a great deterrent to people who only carry a couple of discs.

*

Stoney Hill was not designed with the INTENT of excluding new players, but has most of the features you'd want to accomplish that.

---difficulty
---briar-filled rough
---Places where, if you can't throw 200' straight, you're in the briar-filled rough
---220' water carry

[RussMB]

I've got two words for ya
TROPHY LAKES (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=783&mode=ci)
lol

By the time anyone gets to #6, I think that is the make or break point for "Confidence".

Then add in the fact that it's pay to play. I'll pay to play there in a heartbeat! I love it, but it's not for those that can't handle water hazards.

[superberry]

I don't mind noobs, as long as they're not the worthless and useless morons who litter, vandalize, graffiti, etc.

Pay to play does take the wind out of some of their sails.

[RussMB]

I don't mind noobs, as long as they're not the worthless and useless morons who litter, vandalize, graffiti, etc.

Pay to play does take the wind out of some of their sails.

Well put!:thmbup:

[solomon.trenton]

tight holes
protected pins
long uphill shots (beast in DE)

[billnchristy]

Snipers. Get over a 5 on any easily par'd hole and you get a toe blown off.

[Karl]

No alcohol.







Oh wait, that'll get rid of most good players too :o .

Karl

Ps: Seriously, pay-to-play is probably the single-most effective method.

[iloqutiss1]

Bring Walter along with noobs on ANY course.
http://tikimexican.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/big_lebowski_walter_gun.jpg

[chrishysell]

water to the left

[scarpfish]

Some of you apparently only want to exclude the right-handed noobs.

[chrishysell]

chiggers and ticks. Is that better?

[superberry]

Not in a city park, so they can't walk to it and vandalize, then run out the other side of the park. Make them have to drive to the course, something they need to make a conscious effort to do, and then possibly appreciate it more.

No tees or baskets anywhere in sight from the parking lot!

[zenbot]

TSA agents at the first tee that confiscate Bosses.

[agent_peebody]

noobs are ok in my book. who else are you going to crush in skins to get that new disc you wanted :D

as long as they aren't littering everywhere. my brother actually fought a guy for empty his entire car's worth of trash in the disc golf parking lot...we proceeded to quickly leave after that

[Plankeye]

All you need is Stan McDaniels to come and design your course

[mabraddock]

wild packs of dogs... and flying squirrel

[Karl]

Chris wrote:

"chiggers and ticks."

A form of dyslexia set in and I read it "tiggers and chicks"...

...and I'm wondering how Tigers and babes are going to keep new players from wanting to play :confused: .
Duh :doh: !

[mabraddock]

^^^ hilarious ...

[chrishysell]

wild packs of dogs... and flying squirrel

The flying squirrel that I saw out of the corner of my eye at Dorey reminded me of the flying monkeys from the wizard of oz. Yes, I was scared to go back for weeks.

[chrishysell]

Just open the park for tournaments only and make it one division. No one wants to play with or against me.

[Kwick]

well "chrishy", i don't want to play in a womens division. it is kind of embarrasing

[medicinalfunk]

Just open the park for tournaments only and make it one division. No one wants to play with or against me.

hey sweet post. NOT/ ~ Borat 2006

[SAxDrc]

put in land mines the first 200' or so.

nah, I really don't have a problem with noobs unless they litter, graffiti or are just plain rude.

[wolito]

I don't mind noobs, as long as they're not the worthless and useless morons who litter, vandalize, graffiti, etc.

Pay to play does take the wind out of some of their sails.

Definately agree with you!

[dodgeball]

So oldtimers and 'experts' if u hate noobies so much, design and build your own private courses and charge however much u want to play. After all, that is the American way and free enterprise, yada yada. Otherwise leave the public courses to the noobies and cheapskates (like myself).

[scarpfish]

So oldtimers and 'experts' if u hate noobies so much, design and build your own private courses and charge however much u want to play.
If the oldtimers and 'experts' paid for the course baskets and other infrastructure through club funds, can they take that stuff with them, and leave you noobies and cheapskates figuring out what to do?

[dodgeball]

If the oldtimers and 'experts' paid for the course baskets and other infrastructure through club funds, can they take that stuff with them, and leave you noobies and cheapskates figuring out what to do?

Most cities or counties can afford to pay for a few baskets and basic maintainence of the park. If you want add improvements, concrete tees or whatever, go right ahead. Personally, I didn't ask for it and don't need it. My only real objection is to courses in public parks, now wanting to charge. If we got by without the fees before, then why do they need em now?

[scarpfish]

Most cities or counties can afford to pay for a few baskets and basic maintainence of the park. If you want add improvements, concrete tees or whatever, go right ahead. Personally, I didn't ask for it and don't need it.
Probably the majority of people in any city with a publicly funded course didn't ask for it, and don't need it. In which case, why build one to satisfy a small niche sport?

My only real objection is to courses in public parks, now wanting to charge. If we got by without the fees before, then why do they need em now?
Because the game isn't the same as it was twenty, ten, even five years ago. More use of courses by more people means more impact to the land its on, and also increases the likelihood that some of those folks are going to vandalize and destroy what course infrastructure is there.

When you have no money coming in to pay for things to mitigate these eventualities, the condition of the course goes downhill very quickly. The fact is, with the recent economic downturn, parks departments all over the country have seen their budgets slashed. This means less care being put into their facilities, and facilities they're going to let go to rot first are the ones that they're receiving no income to maintain, like disc golf courses. I guarantee you two feet high grass will keep more noobs off a course and turn them off to the game than any user fee will.

That's the problem with something being free. Nobody respects it.

[dodgeball]

Probably the majority of people in any city with a publicly funded course didn't ask for it, and don't need it. In which case, why build one to satisfy a small niche sport?


Because the game isn't the same as it was twenty, ten, even five years ago. More use of courses by more people means more impact to the land its on, and also increases the likelihood that some of those folks are going to vandalize and destroy what course infrastructure is there.

When you have no money coming in to pay for things to mitigate these eventualities, the condition of the course goes downhill very quickly. The fact is, with the recent economic downturn, parks departments all over the country have seen their budgets slashed. This means less care being put into their facilities, and facilities they're going to let go to rot first are the ones that they're receiving no income to maintain, like disc golf courses. I guarantee you two feet high grass will keep more noobs off a course and turn them off to the game than any user fee will.

That's the problem with something being free. Nobody respects it.

Yeah, I think some parks depts have had their budget cut, but I don't think that's the issue. The real issue, which u alluded to, is that more people are playing DG and with that all those other issues. No doubt, p2p would raise additional funds, BUT the real reason supporters like it is that it would necessarily cut down the number of people of playing, more or less depending on the exact fee. If anyone doubts this is the real reson, just note the title of this thread ;) I say we need more public courses and for those who want all the ammenties of concrete pads, etc., then private courses are the answer. In short, anyone who wants to play, should be able too!

[cydisc]

If we got by without the fees before, then why do they need em now?

Because costs are up and revenues are down, pretty much all over the country. It's called a recession.

[cydisc]

In short, anyone who wants to play, should be able too!

I want to play polo. Please give me 20 acres of land and a horse.

[scarpfish]

No doubt, p2p would raise additional funds, BUT the real reason supporters like it is that it would necessarily cut down the number of people of playing, more or less depending on the exact fee.
I make no apologies for suggesting that one of the advantages that P2P offers is cutting down on the riff-raff element. In my opinion, many of the folks who might be run off by a nominal fee are precisely the kind of people who do stuff like this (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18753).

And yeah, that was a thread you started. IMO, those people aren't so much disc golfers as they are glorified loiterers. They come in all types, but in my experience, the overwhelming majority of them are the kind of people with one or two discs, packing in groups of eight or more on a hole.

If anyone doubts this is the real reson, just note the title of this thread ;)
This is the course design forum. The OP was making mention of design elements that tend to run noobs off...

So had an interesting convo the other day....half in jest half serious.......centered on the idea of obstacles that would ensure noobs don't like your course and wont come back.

It was entirely hypothetical and only half serious. He made no mention of actual courses, let alone public ones.

That being said, one design element that I can assure you runs off newbies, even when its unintentional, is tall grass, especially when its in areas that used to be mowed, and per proper course design probably ought to be. Keep insisting the public DG courses be free in these lean times and I assure you you're going to see more of it.

[dodgeball]

Because costs are up and revenues are down, pretty much all over the country. It's called a recession.

Ok, so then we should charge all users of public parks a general fee since we are in a recession? Makes sense to me.

[dodgeball]

I want to play polo. Please give me 20 acres of land and a horse.

Okay, but you'll need more than one horse and only if you let me play too ;)

[ejsandstrom]

I don't mind noobs, as long as they're not the worthless and useless morons who litter, vandalize, graffiti, etc.

Pay to play does take the wind out of some of their sails.

It has been my experience that its not noobs that do these things. Its the old dicks that look down on us noobs. I know that a huge bag of discs is no indication of ones time playing but a noob would not necessarily denote the amount you play. BUT, I have mostly seen guys with huge bags of disc leaving beer cans and bottles on the tees and holes. Maybe not always but certainly not relegated to noobs.

And by the way is it impossible for some people to go more than 1 hour with out the need to carry a 6 pack of beer with them?

[dodgeball]

I make no apologies for suggesting that one of the advantages that P2P offers is cutting down on the riff-raff element. In my opinion, many of the folks who might be run off by a nominal fee are precisely the kind of people who do stuff like .

So the fact that you automatically connect people who don't want to pay extra fees to people who litter proves my point. At least you will admit it. The only problem is that if you eliminate the 'riff-raff' from the golf course, that still leaves the rest of the park for them cause problems. Maybe we shouldn't have public parks at all! Or libraries, or public schools, oh I guess you get the point..

[scarpfish]

So the fact that you automatically connect people who don't want to pay extra fees to people who litter proves my point. At least you will admit it. The only problem is that if you eliminate the 'riff-raff' from the golf course, that still leaves the rest of the park for them cause problems.
Not if you put the gate at the park entrance. That way people do have to pay for use of non-DG amenities inside such as the swing sets, picnic tables, etc. In most state parks, campgrounds and many regional or county parks, this is already the reality.

Maybe we shouldn't have public parks at all! Or libraries, or public schools, oh I guess you get the point..
Not in the slightest. Libraries and schools have doors with locks on them, and usually plenty of people hired responsible to keep the peace when they're open.

[dodgeball]

Not if you put the gate at the park entrance. That way people do have to pay for use of non-DG amenities inside such as the swing sets, picnic tables, etc. In most state parks, campgrounds and many regional or county parks, this is already the reality.


Not in the slightest. Libraries and schools have doors with locks on them, and usually plenty of people hired responsible to keep the peace when they're open.

Ok scarpfish (is that a real fish btw?), we both made our points, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Maybe we can find some common ground on other topics. See u around the board :)

[Guurn]

Have 2 courses on the site. One Advanced or Pro level and one Intermediate. The beginners will try the hard one every now and then but will have more fun one the intermediate.

[bazillion]

Have 2 courses on the site. One Advanced or Pro level and one Intermediate. The beginners will try the hard one every now and then but will have more fun one the intermediate.

This ^^ is sensible. I mean geez, guys, weren't we all noobs at one time? C'mon now, did your very first drive go > 350? Did you start out making 7/10 from 30 feet out? Give the noobs a place to play, wait until they get good, and THEN kick their butts at skins :D

[Sadjo]

Have 2 courses on the site. One Advanced or Pro level and one Intermediate. The beginners will try the hard one every now and then but will have more fun one the intermediate.

We're building a 2nd course in Seneca, SC and the second course is a planned 7,000 monster with tight fairways and heavy underbrush. It will be for experienced players. The current course will be for new players and those not wanting a long, challenging course all the time.

It is suppose to be ready by spring.

[Essington]

Wow, when did the definition of noob change? In my little world, litter, vandalization, and grafitti are more like criminal behavior than that of some who is new to and excited about a sport but just doesn't know anything.

A month ago, I hadn't even heard of disc golf. After being introduced to it on a camping trip (and never having even seen or played on an actual course), my friends and I (all noobs by my definition of the term) managed to collect donations and land to build our own course. This is such a fun sport that we wanted to get as many people in the community playing as we could, and we found enough like minded people (most who never heard of disc golf) to donate enough money in a week to get a basic natural course built. This sure doesn't sound like the definition of "noob" used here.

So speaking as a newbie, the only discouraging feature for me would be having the course stocked with a bunch of inconsiderate douche bags (no matter what their skill level). This is an incredibly fun sport for everyone. Share your knowledge and spread the fun.

[lokirising]

Hey look, someone new to DG. Let's treat them like crap.It's getting a little old.

[Mr. America]

Sadly the only place I've ever experienced any snobbery is the internet. People I've encountered at the courses have always been really nice so far. Hopefully I'll be joining the local Disc Golf club at their weekly thursday outing this week, I hope my experiences don't change.

[discpicable]

Maybe we shouldn't have public parks at all! Or libraries, or public schools, oh I guess you get the point..

We shouldn't.

[humchris85]

Cali has secret courses



Well there was my sugestion. Funny on how you nailed that that was Calli's way.:hfive:

[REDARMY]

This ^^ is sensible. I mean geez, guys, weren't we all noobs at one time? C'mon now, did your very first drive go > 350? Did you start out making 7/10 from 30 feet out? Give the noobs a place to play, wait until they get good, and THEN kick their butts at skins :D

there's a difference between being a noob and being a TDD. i think what is trying to be said above is that the noobs who actually want to improve their game already start out with a sense of common courtesy for other people in the park and such.

the 'riff-raff' to be kept out is the TDD's who do all the littering/removing built-in obstructions/willfully snuff pleasant requests to abide by the rules of the game, etc.

it may be a hard distinction to make at first, but it can be done.

and for my part, i wholly agree that p2p needs to EXPLODE.

people actually interested in the game will not mind coughing up a buck or few to play, ESPECIALLY if they know the beer-swilling stoner retards with sticky fingers won't be there.

[newhuck]

All you need is Stan McDaniels to come and design your course

I resemble this remark. I have been out here in NC playing for the last week and have hit quite a few of Stan's designs and can say that they are kicking my butt. I mostly get bogeys from the short holes and feel like I got a birdie when I end up with a par hole. As frustrating as it is, I must say I love the challenge and these courses. So unfortunately, having Stan design your course will get idiots like me playing Elon Long and Renny in the same day in 94 degree weather with 95-100% humidity and ending with a smile on my face.:D