Time to Upgrade?

[Neophyte]

I started playing last spring and am really loving the game. I started throwing all my drives RHBH but quickly found that I could get more distance RHFH (still working on my RHBH drives for specific fairways). My go to driver was a 170g Star TeeRex that a buddy gave me. I recently transitioned to a 172g Star X-Caliber. I am currently averaging around 350 ft on my drives. My question is should I move on to a Destroyer or Boss even though I definitely have not maxed out the potential of my X-Cal? Thanks for the help.

[sapples]

I throw about 50/50 between bh and fh, and for forehand i use the same 2 drivers. If its not broke don't fix it. After using these two discs for so long I have found that I can rely on them for anything and have the utmost confidence with each throw. The destroyer in my case was flippy after being used to the XC and TeeRex. I have yet to throw a boss so I am unsure of it but still just as curious as you. Sounds like you are doing good with the XC but its always fun to get new discs.

[Neophyte]

If I am throwing RHBH then I use a 174 Avenger or 174 XL. I like how straight the XL flies. I watched some clinics online and have been working on my X-step but still can't consistently throw as far as I can with RHFH.

[ShaZaun]

I also found the Destroyer flippy especialy forehand..... my buddy who throws primarly backhand loved it......

[sidewinding]

You will probably get a little more distance out of a destroyer than the XCal but it will also be a little easier to overpower than the XCal. The Boss will definitely give you more D but will be even easier to overpower than the Destroyer. If you get a non DX Destroyer you will probably see a 20' distance impprovement.

Semper Fi

[buzzinb]

350 with the Xcal or T-rex is not bad. I'd say keep working with that. I have only thrown Pro Destroyers but found them less predictable compared to the Xcal. Never tried a BOSS. See if you can try someone else's before you invest. For me, it just doesn't get any better than the Xcal for controllable distance. Keep at it, I'd say you are on the right path my friend.

[Neophyte]

Thanks for the encouragement. I am surprised that several of you have found the Destroyer and Boss so unpredictable. I will try a Destroyer/Boss before buying one.

[t i m]

I started playing last spring and am really loving the game. I started throwing all my drives RHBH but quickly found that I could get more distance RHFH (still working on my RHBH drives for specific fairways). My go to driver was a 170g Star TeeRex that a buddy gave me. I recently transitioned to a 172g Star X-Caliber. I am currently averaging around 350 ft on my drives. My question is should I move on to a Destroyer or Boss even though I definitely have not maxed out the potential of my X-Cal? Thanks for the help.

Instead of stepping UP a disc, I'd advise stepping DOWN a disc or two. Get a Star TL or a DX Teebird and use it for 100% of your drives for a few rounds. It will go farther than you think and it will help you improve your form and understand better how discs fly through the air. (Or step down even further to a Gazelle or a Leopard... or even a Roc).

Most pros who throw Innova probably use a Teebird or TL off the box more often than any other driver because it goes where it is supposed to more often than any other driver. You'll only lose a few feet of distance (if any) with the teebird when thrown correctly, and you'll improve your game because you'll be on the fairway or under the basket.

One of the worst things you could do for your long term development as a player is to jump up to a Boss/Groove right now. That's not a upgrade. That's like handing a Formula One car to a high schooler... sure it looks fancy and goes fast, but it's hard to drive, hard to steer, bottoms-out over every speed bump and pothole, has no air conditioning, and no room to make out with your girlfriend... basically, you'd be much happier with the old Chevy in the garage (the old Honda for you suburbanites)...

At this stage of learning your best bet is to step down your discs to step up your game. Any of the experienced players on here will back me up on this.

[Texconsinite]

I completely agree. I've been playing a year. I started out throwing Wraiths and beasts. However, after returning from an injury-forced hiatus, I realized I couldnt throw them very well, and they were all flying very squirrelly
I took them all out of my bag, and stepped down in my FH drivers. Now I drive with Sidewinders/Cheetah/XLs for BH, and slower overstable discs like Reapers and Vipers for FH. I'm so much more accurate, and feel like I have so much more control now, and throw farther than I did with the wraiths. I'm not going back anytime soon.

I realized that the only ay I could get those faster discs to turnover or fly striaght was to fling them at max power, with lots of anhyzer and wrist rollover. However, often whe you do that, discs flip over and dont come back, so sometimes I got nice s-curves, but I seemed to just shank it left or right from too much wrist roll or not enough. Now, after discing down, I get a nice clean throw every time, and feel much more in control

[DWill]

Instead of stepping UP a disc, I'd advise stepping DOWN a disc or two. Get a Star TL or a DX Teebird and use it for 100% of your drives for a few rounds. It will go farther than you think and it will help you improve your form and understand better how discs fly through the air. (Or step down even further to a Gazelle or a Leopard... or even a Roc).

Most pros who throw Innova probably use a Teebird or TL off the box more often than any other driver because it goes where it is supposed to more often than any other driver. You'll only lose a few feet of distance (if any) with the teebird when thrown correctly, and you'll improve your game because you'll be on the fairway or under the basket.

One of the worst things you could do for your long term development as a player is to jump up to a Boss/Groove right now. That's not a upgrade. That's like handing a Formula One car to a high schooler... sure it looks fancy and goes fast, but it's hard to drive, hard to steer, bottoms-out over every speed bump and pothole, has no air conditioning, and no room to make out with your girlfriend... basically, you'd be much happier with the old Chevy in the garage (the old Honda for you suburbanites)...

At this stage of learning your best bet is to step down your discs to step up your game. Any of the experienced players on here will back me up on this.

I also agree with this. 10 - 15 years ago, the advice was for new players to learn on rocs (midranges), then move up to more advance discs like Stingrays and Cyclones, et al. Now you see new players starting with Destroyers, Beasts and other very fast advanced discs. I see a lot of new players struggle with these kinds of drivers. Perhaps they think the technology will compensate for their lack of form. Sometimes we need to learn to walk before we run.



__________________
Cool Disc Golf Apparel (http://www.cafepress.com/flyingdiscgoods/6373223)
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=146&pictureid=841 (http://www.cafepress.com/flyingdiscgoods/6373223)

[ZMan44]

I agree with t i m as well. I have some distance drivers that I pull out on a rare occasion. But most of the time I grab a teebird, valkyrie, leopard, etc. Most of the time these discs end up exactly where I intended. I have a Latitude Riot that I can get way out there. Easily my farthest drives. But if you can get 320' easily out of your teebird, there is no real reason to push it on most holes.

I say this not to discourage people from buying the long distance drivers. (teebirds were those drivers at one point) Most of the courses in my area are full of holes between 300' and 425'. There are exceptions, but this is a majority of the holes we have here. If the hole is open and about 400', then sure, I'll pull out the Riot and give it a rip. But I would wager that 80-85% of the time I step to the tee with a teebird, valk, leopard, or a midrange. Not because I am a long distance master...sheerly for strategic placement purposes.

[ZMan44]

Also, if you are looking for a good distance backhand disc that is not hard to throw, give a Helios a try. Made by Snap...mine is "money" and doesn't take a lot of umph to throw it a long way.

[sidewinding]

If you can sidearm an XCaliber 350' you will probably be able to get a destroyer to 375' and a Boss to 400' with no change in technique. You should also be able to sidearm a Teebird close to 400' but you would have even more potential to overpower it than the destroyer. The Teebird is great but I would not reccommend it for max power sidearms.

[Neophyte]

Good advice Tim. As a former pitcher I know how important form can be in generating power or in this case distance. I have never tried a TeeBird but have read that it is like the TeeRex's little brother. Picking one up and giving it a try couldn't hurt. Again thanks for the help.

[sidewinder22]

My DX Glow Teebird is so understable its only good as roller forehand. I love it backhand though. My Star TL is more stable and if i put a good hyzer on it forehand, it will go fairly straight. I still prefer the TL as a backhand disc. Maybe I should try 175g Star Teebird forehand. I've got a Star Xcal on the way. I've been using my Star Firebird and ESP Venom mostly recently for forehands. I rarely will use my Boss forehand unless its a 400+ wide open shot. It takes a lot room in its flight pattern. The Boss is very touchy and if the angle and release is not right your going way off into the rough or woods or water. When I do hit it right its a nice thing to watch the Boss fly. I thought I aced a 375' hole with it, but it sailed just behind the basket.

[Neophyte]

Any thoughts on a TeeBird versus a TL? Also has anyone else every thrown a Helios? I checked out its flight characteristics and it sounds good to me.

[cocopop]

With driver, especially Innova, the flight patterns will vary wildly for seemingly no reason. I have all 3 of these and find the Boss the most overstable, then the Xcal, and then the Destroyer. I do know people that think the Xcal is way too overstable for them but can flip their Boss over very easilly. Try a friends disc and see what you think.

[Lewis]

I've never thrown a Teebird but I recently bought a TL, and it never does anything for me except fly straight.

It's almost eerie how straight it is sometimes: straight out of the hand, no turnover, and no fade. If I get the nose up or roll my wrist, I can forece it to "fade" or "turn," but if the form is neutral, you can't miss. Got the same feeling from a Buzzz the first time I threw one.

[disc-o maniac]

thats good news... im planning on getting a TL but i wasn't sure of its characteristics

thanks

[DannyM]

The TL is exactly like the teebird, but slightly less stable, making it a longer, straighter disc. If you are wanting a disc for backhand, this would be a great choice. For forehand, since you are throwing an excaliber, this would be too understable. Tim said it just right....going with the "old school" discs, learing what they do, how they will fly, etc... is the way to go. Once you have proper form, then you move up to the "higher performance" discs <destroyer/boss/groove>.

[disc-o maniac]

The TL is exactly like the teebird, but slightly less stable, making it a longer, straighter disc. If you are wanting a disc for backhand, this would be a great choice. For forehand, since you are throwing an excaliber, this would be too understable. Tim said it just right....going with the "old school" discs, learing what they do, how they will fly, etc... is the way to go. Once you have proper form, then you move up to the "higher performance" discs <destroyer/boss/groove>.

thanks for the advice i guess i'll pass on the TL

[solomon.trenton]

i have a buddy who dominates with a 170 beast forearm.

[garublador]

The TL is exactly like the teebird, but slightly less stable, making it a longer, straighter disc.I find that the TL is actually less straight than the Teebird. It doesn't resist turn nearly as well and the fade doesn't beat out of it as fast.

The longer part is probably debatable and line dependent. On a straight line the Teebird is definitely longer (the TL needs more lateral movement to get the same D) but it's easier to get a distance line out of a TL.

[Neophyte]

Thanks for all the good info. I have a TeeBird coming this week and look forward to trying it out. Additionally, any good milestones/indications when a new player should start switching to faster, more advanced discs?

[gcrussell4]

Distance is the most overrated (by far) part of DG. I have a pretty big arm and I love really airing it out there, but without fail I lose to players who throw significantly shorter then I do if they can throw accurate upshots and hit their putts from inside the circle. If you really want to advance your game, find a way (teebird is a good way) to get your drives to go just where you want them to around the 300 foot mark. Then make sure that every time that you get within 200 feet of the basket you will be able to make it within your next two shots. Once you gain complete confidence in your upshots and putting, I would say that would be the time to start thinking about adding big "D" to your drives.

[t i m]

Thanks for all the good info. I have a TeeBird coming this week and look forward to trying it out. Additionally, any good milestones/indications when a new player should start switching to faster, more advanced discs?

Don't even think about moving up until you can put a teebird WHERE YOU WANT IT (golf distance) at somewhere over 300' (meaning, you can stand on a football/soccer field, and put a teebird 300'+ and land it in the exact center of the field. You should be able to do this on flat, anhyzer, hyzer and S-curve lines. Raw distance not worried about landing you should be able to get a teebird 350'+. After those two things, it's time to start trying faster plastic. But the Teebird will stay in your bag. The teebird will probably always stay in your bag.

One of my good friends I play with often has sick, sick D -- over 500' with Destroyers and Augusta Wraiths in a field -- and he's taken all the fast plastic out of his bag because it kept hurting his score. Fastest thing he is throwing now is a Teebird, because it goes where it's suppose to. Every time. And consistency is worth more than the extra distance with the uber-fast drivers.

Some of my best scores on courses have been shot with a single Champion Teebird and a putter. It's amazing what those two discs can do.

[bjreagh]

According to Innova, part of Ken Climo's bag consists of:

3 TeeBirds
5 Rocs
3 Aviars

He now throws a Wraith (carries 3) for his longest drives, but the consistency of the TeeBird, Roc, and Aviar have been proven over and over again (despite the flooding of the market of all these new "superdiscs")

reference:
http://www.innovadiscs.com/team/ken.html

[_.-Dut-._]

the consistency of the TeeBird, Roc, and Aviar have been proven over and over again

QFT^^

[DannyM]

Distance is the most overrated (by far) part of DG. I have a pretty big arm and I love really airing it out there, but without fail I lose to players who throw significantly shorter then I do if they can throw accurate upshots and hit their putts from inside the circle. If you really want to advance your game, find a way (teebird is a good way) to get your drives to go just where you want them to around the 300 foot mark. Then make sure that every time that you get within 200 feet of the basket you will be able to make it within your next two shots. Once you gain complete confidence in your upshots and putting, I would say that would be the time to start thinking about adding big "D" to your drives.

^^^^ exactly...and if you play a lot of diverse courses, this really shows up. If I play against others in my division, and the course is WIDE open, I tend to not do as well because I don't have the big-arm distance, but can put it where I want it and still be competitive. If we play in a tight/wooded course where accuracy is important, and distance is not, I tend to usually be on the top card.I'd say that my upshot/approach game is my strongest asset. Even if my drive is slightly off, I have enough variety of shots that I can get close enough to save par, and in wooded courses, par is very good. Make that, and finish out at just a few over par, or close to even, and chances are you will be at the top in tourneys.

[Neophyte]

My TeeBird came yesterday and I ended up trying it out yesterday afternoon. I am turning it over like crazy. If I throw it (RHFH) as I normally would my TeeRex or X-Cal it turns over on me about 50ft out and heads directly for the deck. I continued working with it after my round and found that the only way I could get it to stay flat was to throw it much softer (less snap). I learned FH with a TeeRex so I am wondering if I learned some bad habits that are causing this. Any ideas as to what am I doing wrong?