Course Par

[MoPhunk]

I live in the Quad Cities (Davenport, IA for those who dont have any idea) We have 8 course with 2 more being completed right now. My friends and i always play every hole at any course as a Par 3 and i was wondering if anyone else did that or just played the course par.

[timg]

I ran into a couple of guys a while back that did that. I normally play the posted par as some holes would be impossible to par in 3 shots at a few of the courses here in Rochester.

[Olorin]

Good question, that even the PDGA hasn't totally decided on. The simple answer is that "No, every hole is not a par 3." There are too many long holes that are definitely not par 3s. Although DG historically started by making recreational courses that were all par 3 (in order to sell more frisbees and make more money, IMO) we've progressed beyond that now, so many courses have legitimate par 4 and par 5 holes. IMHO this is the direction that DG must continue to go in.

Please see the thread "What is Par?" for some of our previous discussions.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31

I've also placed some documents about Par in the Files section of "DG Resources". http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/DGResources/

Hope this helps.

[Olorin]

At Ellison in Rochester I'd be agog to hear someone say that hole 13 (600 ft) and 17 (590 ft) are par 3s. If they are then they're rarely parred and never birdied. The PDGA rules allow for 2 putts to complete the hole, so how many people are going to get to 540 ft on their drive to have a 50 ft putt on 17?

[magictenor1]

I always play the posted par and if I don't see one I assume a 3. I have seen more than once where something other than a 3 is posted but locals play it as a 3. I was once at a course in Texas and there seemed to be a running fight over what par was. Holes were marked as a 4 for example and someone would go behind them and write a 3 over it. It seems that better players are offended sometimes if all holes are not a 3 (at least around here). I have seen holes listed as 3 that were not for most players and holes listed as a 5 that were not that hard. Par is not always consistent.

[MoPhunk]

Thank you very much for the input. I recently started printing the scorecards off of our local Disc Golf Club's website and just putting my score in regardless of par and i just try to beat my last score. IF you are in the quad cities (Davenport, IA - Bettendorf, IA - Moline, IL - Rock Island, IL) our local clubs website is "qcdiscgolfclub.com" They have maps and scorecards for most of the courses around the area.

[Olorin]

I recently started printing the scorecards off of our local Disc Golf Club's website and just putting my score in regardless of par and i just try to beat my last score.

Given the current state of things in DG that's probably the best thing to do-- just track your scores and forget about par having any real meaning. :mad: It never ceases to amaze me that we play a game with "golf" in the name, but with no consistent universal standards for par. Two extremes have been named here that are both worthless: 1) play everything as par 3, or 2) lots of courses have a weird "Rec Par" system that is useless because the numbers were just plucked out of the air, are inflated to sooth the ego of new players so they mean nothing to most regular players, and par shouldn't be based on a "Rec" player's skill anyway. Oh well, some day par may really mean something in DG, but we're not there yet.

Have any of you had a chance to check out the "Close Range (CR) Par" system? If so, I'd be interested to hear your feedback.

[WillA]

The PDGA is definitely opposed to the notion that everything should be a three. And most PDGA tournaments are not par 54 for 18 holes.

Unfortunately some courses have par set too low. I think as more courses are designed using the new PDGA standards that will change. In the emantime we will have courses where it is easy to shoot par and others where it is very hard to shoot par and that's actually just fine with me. Variety is good. :-)

Here is PDGA guideline on par - http://www.pdga.com/documents/PublicPar.pdf

[gcrussell4]

If there is one thing that drives me crazy during tournaments it is when I have the scorecard and I ask someone their score and they tell me par. With par being so loosely defined and meaning different things to different people, you can't assume that saying "par" means a 3, 4, 5 or anything else. For me, I find it easiest to call everything a 3, and keep track of it that way, but it has made it a bit confusing using the scoretracker on here. I have one round that I recorded as having a triple bogey, 2 doubles, and some more bogeys and yet the round is rated as a -2 down. Oh well, to each their own.

[ERicJ]

Here is PDGA guideline on par - http://www.pdga.com/documents/PublicPar.pdf

[...]For me, I find it easiest to call everything a 3, and keep track of it that way, but it has made it a bit confusing using the scoretracker on here. I have one round that I recorded as having a triple bogey, 2 doubles, and some more bogeys and yet the round is rated as a -2 down. Oh well, to each their own.

I'm of the opinion that for the DGCR scorebook "Par" should be "Rec Par" and follow the PublicPar guidelines that Will posted above. The "Pro Par" could be "Everything 3". Using those conventions when you submit a score you can pick which "Par" you'd like to be compared against.

In reality "Pro Par" probably means something different, so maybe there should be three choices "Rec Par", "Par 3's", and "Pro Par". Of course it would help if someone could explain to me exactly what "Pro Par" should be... ;)

ERic

[timg]

I have one round that I recorded as having a triple bogey, 2 doubles, and some more bogeys and yet the round is rated as a -2 down. Oh well, to each their own.

It looks like you used the quick score entry so the -2 is based on the score you entered on the site and the par you played. It looks like the course you're talking about has a bunch of par 4/5's so if you play all par 3's you may have double bogies on your list but since par is different, that double bogey may actually be the hole par.

In reality "Pro Par" probably means something different, so maybe there should be three choices "Rec Par", "Par 3's", and "Pro Par". Of course it would help if someone could explain to me exactly what "Pro Par" should be... ;)

Usually Pro Par is associated with the Pro Tees on a course.. so if you're playing from the long ("Pro") tees, the par may be 4 from that position versus 3 from the Am. Tees. As far as I can tell, it's something that comes into play at courses with multiple tees.

[adlacro]

This is an unrefined issue. Generally speaking during tournaments that I've played they play every hole as three to keep it simple. They know not every hole is a par three but it makes it quicker to score. I would assume the 18th at Tinicum Park (an 800 ft. straight shot) would not really fall under that category. I thought at first it was course pros that could chuck a disc 350 feet with pinpoint accuracy and nail 100 foot putts like it was nothing but that's not always the case. I sometimes adjust the par myself so my score looks better than it really is! If you're first starting, I recommend not keeping score so you can just go out and enjoy the game. Go out with friends and beat them for bragging rights. I say just worry about your score and the heck with everyone else's. I find that when I worry about everyone else I choke putts or hit trees I know I miss every other time, so forget about par, go out and enjoy yourself. That's my 2 cents.

[WillA]

The interesting thing is while players in tournaments may count everything as a 3, that is not the way the scores are reported. I've asked guys how they did and been told one thing and then when I check the score online I find it listed differently because the official score was not based on everything being a 3.

Just taking a quick look at the PDGA website, most tourney results currently listed only show raw scores. But none of the ones I saw which reported a + or - had a par of 54. I really think we need to move beyond this notion of par 3 disc golf.

[timg]

I really think we need to move beyond this notion of par 3 disc golf.

I think the sport is slowly moving in that direction. Courses being designed/built today tend to be longer than the ones you would see say.. 10 years ago. Part of it must be due to the evolution of the discs themselves. People are throwing considerably farther thanks to the various new disc designs and all of a sudden each of those old par 3's consistently become birdie opportunities.

[Ben17]

I personally will just play what is posted as par, but if it is too easy then i will play some par 3