Best Disc to learn Form

[Ryan P.]

For all of you guys who have spent years playing and have nearly perfected your form, what would you say is the best disc with which to learn proper form? I would imagine some driver would be, because they are the hardest discs to throw. but then again, discraft's Putt'r X might also be, because if you throw it with any OAT whatsoever, then it will turn over in no time.

[t i m]

X-Comet, Ontario Roc, Beat DX-Teebird or DX-Leopard

[Greg Layton]

I'd say the most important disc is a DX Roc. Your drives will naturally get better with practice, but I think the second shot is the hardest/most important shot for a newer player. It's always the difference between a 3 and a 5 for me. If you can wear in a new Roc and learn how to make it do what you want it to do you become a much better player because of it.

[Neophyte]

I agree with Tim. I learned with a DX Leopard and think that really helped me develop.

[Ryan P.]

Maybe I phrased my question wrong. I'm not looking for pointers necessarily, but i would like suggestions for a disc that wouldn't fly right unless it was thrown with proper form. I want to find the flaws in my form and then correct them. (If it helps any, I throw most of my drivers about 350' and land them within the 25' radius i'm aiming for (usually around the basket).)

For instance, if i threw it with any OAT, it would flip over. Or, if i didn't put enough snap into it, it would just fade out almost immediately.

t i m, if those suggestions were an answer to the question i meant to ask, how would each of them show me where my form isn't the best?

Thanks guys,.

[taxman]

i don't think one disc is going to teach you perfect form. i like the disc progression that has been covered in some of the other threads. if you follow something like that you should end up developing decent form.

there has been a lot of talk about off axis torque (OAT) lately. i think it's being accredited for problems it is not responsible for. if you notice any wobble in your disc right after release that is OAT. sort of like a bad football toss.

a disc fliping or turning over is going to be a combination of angle of release, the amount of spin/snap put on the disc compared to the speed of the disc. if your consistantly turning over a disc you feel shouldn't have that much turn. move to a faster disc in that same line. that valk turning over more than it used to? try a wraith out.

if you really want one disc to practice with for perfect form, get out your putter and drive with that.


just my thoughts

[sidewinding]

To learn distance driving start with a Champion Beast. Once you develop your form enough to where you can throw it 300' in a perfectly straight line you will start overpowering it and it will start tuning over on you. At this point you will be ready to move on up so something like a Boss

This post will probably be followed by many from bitter old schoolers who don't like to see noobs outthrowing them with "Destroyers and such". They will say "DO NOT LEARN WITH FAST DISCS". I say embrace the technology.

[garublador]

For instance, if i threw it with any OAT, it would flip over. Or, if i didn't put enough snap into it, it would just fade out almost immediately. That actually sounds like a really difficult disc with which to learn. That being said, a beat up DX Teebird is probably the closest thing to what you're describing. The hard thing about finding a disc like that is most stuff that's flippy enough to show OAT will also flip with clean power and might not show nose angle problems as readily, either.

I find the best way to see if you're doing things right is a combination of discs. A beat, big beaded putter can handle all the snap you can muster, will be very intolerant of OAT but will not show nose angle problems as well. A really fast or overstable driver will show nose angle issues well, but will mask OAT. A workable fairway driver will show nose angle issues, will respond well to OAT (it will show it, but not tolerate too much) and will show nose angle issues without amplifying them. They also generally turn some with extra speed. A beat, true stable mid will be, well, in the middle. It won't mask much OAT and requires some nose down, but doesn't require as much nose down as a driver and masks OAT better than a putter but can take all the snap you can produce.

So, really, for learning I like a beaded putter, a stable mid and a workable fairway driver. If you can get all those to fly well, and far then you're doing well. The putter will show OAT the best without flipping because of speed, the mid will show OAT and some nose angle issues without flipping because of speed and the fairway driver will give good feedback about small amounts of OAT, show nose angle issues better and will flip more with extra speed (yes, those last two can make it confusing, but with the putter and mid it normally isn't an issue).

For checking to see how you're doing, a beat DX Teebird is a good barometer because of how they like to be thrown just right. I don't find them good for learning because they don't give a lot of feedback as to what or how bad your issue really is.

[giles]

A light aviar. Or any putter that isn't crazy overstable. (I've put a Z challenger out further than my Buzzz)

[Greg Layton]

To learn distance driving start with a Champion Beast. Once you develop your form enough to where you can throw it 300' in a perfectly straight line you will start overpowering it and it will start tuning over on you. At this point you will be ready to move on up so something like a Boss

This post will probably be followed by many from bitter old schoolers who don't like to see noobs outthrowing them with "Destroyers and such". They will say "DO NOT LEARN WITH FAST DISCS". I say embrace the technology.

If I were to try out a champ beast, what kind of weight should I use? My favorite driver right now is a 174g Champion TL. I don't know how far I'm throwing it (I've never measured) but it seems to go where I want it to go 95% of the time.

[jace]

[QUOTE=Ryan P.;40514] (If it helps any, I throw most of my drivers about 350' and land them within the 25' radius i'm aiming for (usually around the basket).) [QUOTE]

And you're worried about form? I'd say practice your putting :cool:

[sidewinding]

If I were to try out a champ beast, what kind of weight should I use? My favorite driver right now is a 174g Champion TL. I don't know how far I'm throwing it (I've never measured) but it seems to go where I want it to go 95% of the time.



Max weight (175ish) will be the most stable and the lighter you go the less stable they become.

[t i m]

see garublador's answer -- I think he and I would agree that you need several discs to show different parts of form problems -- he just fleshed out the answers a lot more.

An X-Comet is about as neutral as they come -- it will show OAT but will mask flutter and nose-angle problems.

An Ontario Roc is the trickiest Roc to throw, but will go the farthest and carve some amazing shots if you can learn a clean release on it across all kinds of angles -- it's also more nose angle sensitive than a Comet and will die hard or flip or hyzer, depending on what you've done wrong. (A Classic Roc will also work for this, or an XD, or a REALLY beat up DX Rancho/SanMarino Roc.)

The beat DX Teebird shows off all sorts of problems, and can be the greatest disc you've got or a squirrelly nightmare if your form isn't good -- see garublador's comments.

A DX Leopard is good for learning control and a very clean release. It's similar to a longer Ontario Roc/Classic Roc -- similar, but farther so it will exaggerate flaws and strengths a little more than the OR/CR.

Does that help?

I'm sure there are comparable discs with other manufacturers, but I'm not as familiar with some of the other lines. A beat in XL or Cyclone would probably work instead of the Teebird/Leopard. Or if you throw Gateway, a Sabre/G1i would be the best parallel there. A beat LS if you throw Millienium as well as a well-seasoned Aurora MS (or MF if you can find one) to take the place of the Roc/Comet. If you throw anything else, I can't offer suggestions.

Maybe I phrased my question wrong. I'm not looking for pointers necessarily, but i would like suggestions for a disc that wouldn't fly right unless it was thrown with proper form. I want to find the flaws in my form and then correct them. (If it helps any, I throw most of my drivers about 350' and land them within the 25' radius i'm aiming for (usually around the basket).)

For instance, if i threw it with any OAT, it would flip over. Or, if i didn't put enough snap into it, it would just fade out almost immediately.

t i m, if those suggestions were an answer to the question i meant to ask, how would each of them show me where my form isn't the best?

Thanks guys,.

[Ryan P.]

Thanks T i m and garublador. I think you answered my question dead on. i've got a beaded aviar (i think it's a big bead), and two Teebirds, one of which is beat almost beyond use. i'm not sure how to tell if a Roc is an Ontario Roc, but i'm sure i could find that in one of the 7,000 Roc threads already posted.

you did bring up one more question though. how can i tell if i'm throwing the Teebird nose up? obviously i could videotape my throw, but what would the disc do during it's flight to show that i threw it nose up?

[garublador]

Thanks T i m and garublador. I think you answered my question dead on. i've got a beaded aviar (i think it's a big bead), and two Teebirds, one of which is beat almost beyond use. i'm not sure how to tell if a Roc is an Ontario Roc, but i'm sure i could find that in one of the 7,000 Roc threads already posted.It will say "Ontario" somewhere in the etching on the bottom of the flight plate. If it's a normal DX or KC Pro Roc bought this decade it's probably a Rancho. Anymore, Ontario and San Marino are all speical runs. I'd just throw the Rancho, IMO it's the best one anyway.

you did bring up one more question though. how can i tell if i'm throwing the Teebird nose up? obviously i could videotape my throw, but what would the disc do during it's flight to show that i threw it nose up?It will fly more overstable, higher and shorter than a nose down throw. You'll get a noticable "stall out" (the disc will rise up, slow down a lot and then fade hard) at the end of the flight and you'll be able to see the top of the disc.

A nose down flight will act more understable and be a lot longer. If it's a beat Teebird you won't get very much fade and most of it will be in the forward direction.

[DiscChainBasket18]

For me it was a 150 class Sidewinder. This disc would fly great & I didn't have to put a lot of effort into it (to make it fly well).

[BELLYRUBS]

For me it was a 150 class Sidewinder. This disc would fly great & I didn't have to put a lot of effort into it (to make it fly well).

i also have a 150g sidewinder, great for learning how to drive straight or even for a bit of a right dogleg once your comfortable.

i think the best discs to begin driving with would be a lighter weight leopard or tee bird, these discs have definitely improved my form and the result is improved accuracy and distance with these discs, as well as when i throw a distance drivers such as a beast (i prefer lighter weights 160-165g).

i have smaller hands so its hard for me to throw those new wide rimmed drivers such as the boss and the groove(tho i have them in my bag), plus those discs need much arm speed and snap to get them to fly properly, both of which new players like me lack.

[Ryan P.]

thanks garublador.

[Midnightbiker]

A light aviar. Or any putter that isn't crazy overstable. (I've put a Z challenger out further than my Buzzz)

I have been practicing throwing my Magnet farther and farther with out turning it over. Since then , I have noticed my driver distances getting better.

[bjreagh]

For me, and when I am introducing others, I feel the JLS is great for at least developing a controlled, straight, level throw. I have a bag of a couple dozen and I go to a baseball practice field and throw them into the backstop from 50-150'. I don't just aim for the backstop, but instead, the spot in the middle where the two main poles crossed.

I concentrate on footwork, release, disc angle, etc. This has worked pretty good for me anyways.

[80playedin10states]

start off with midranges and putters?...roc and aviar...you learn to throw these two well, you are waaaaay ahead of most beginners

[thcdisc]

try a dx archangel

[Ryan P.]

thanks 80.

thcdisc, why should i try a dx archangel? what would it show me about my form?

[_.-Dut-._]

Pick the midrange of your choice.

[willstradamus]

I say a Buzzz because it seems to hold every line well.

[willstradamus]

On 2nd thought, Maybe a Firebird.

once you can get it to hold an Anhyzer then you know you are getting enough pop at the end of your throw :D

[Three Putt]

try a dx archangel

On 2nd thought, Maybe a Firebird.

once you can get it to hold an Anhyzer then you know you are getting enough pop at the end of your throw :DThis is probably in the thread somewhere, but I'm not in the mood to read it all.

The concept is really simple. If you are concentrating on form, you want to avoid really overstable discs, really understable discs and really fast discs. You are depending on the result of your throw to tell you something about what YOU did. If you throw a really overstable disc and it hyzers, did you throw it correctly or did the overstable characteristics of the disc mask whatever you did? It's hard to tell. If you flip a Firebird, is it because you have a lot of power OR are you torquing the living crap out of it? If you throw a really fast disc that is supposed to be understable but it doesn't flip and fades at the end, what does that mean? Did you get the nose up? Did you drop your shoulder? Or, do you just not have enough power to get that disc up to speed? Adding speed and very much overstability or understability just makes it more complicated to figure out what is going on.

So, if you want to concentrate on your form you want slower, neutral-stable discs to work with. They respond more to what YOU do and don't give you such complicated results to consider.

[mzuleger]

I'll throw in another vote for a comet but if you want to work on nose angle these won't help you much. Once you're ready to give nose angle a little attention you'll probably want to grab a driver (anything will work but the wider the rim the more sensetive it will be).

[gwillim]

Comet

[80playedin10states]

i have a glide that is similar to a comet...great disc for 300' or less..i still believe mastering a putter and maybe a mid will get you light years ahead of people trying to learn with drivers