Laying Up?

[Geoffro]

I was playing with my daughter last weekend, and she threw a 100' up-shot straight into the chains for a birdie. I mean it was STRAIGHT IN! We both cheered aloud, and jumped up and down like it was an ace. However, if she would have missed the basket, she would have overshot 25' at least - potentially boogieing the hole as a result. But she didn't, and the "100' putt" was beautiful for the bird.

My daughter is not a really serious DG player, but I offer this experience as a question: We've all had the accidental up-shot birdie (or Eagle). We all know we should lay-up off a good up-shot for an easy par, rather than chance a 100' Putt that will go who-knows-where. I often feel like I'm letting myself down when I lay-up and take the easy par that results.

Is there an argument for recreational play (or professional play) that says "go for the birdie and take the loss(es)?" For me disc golf is about that feeling of the chains ringing rather than some accumulation of pars, birdies, and overall scores. Yet I still find myself laying-up, because its the "right" thing to do for my overall scores.

What do you think? Your thoughts will be appreciated...

[BrotherDave]

Yeah, I don't know about the "pros" and by that I mean people better than me (and suck for it) but around 100 ft or so I hyzer in an aero, warlock, or roc, whatever I got with me and that way you kind of lay up and go for it at the same time. Or jump putt.

[EclipticOne]

im pretty bad about putting so 100' isnt even considered putting for me. i just toss an approach so i can try to get inside 20'

[3456789]

I usually go for it unless there is a water hazzard or drop off behind the basket

[Adam Schneider]

I usually take BrotherDave's approach on 50- to 100-footers: I try a shot that MIGHT go in, but won't get too far away when it doesn't. Dave said he tries a hyzer with a midrange; I usually use my putter, but throw it high enough that it stalls out and drops almost vertically toward the basket.

[zensuit]

I carry a Blowfly just for the 100 foot approach. Throw it with hyzer and if it goes in fine, if it doesn't it just flops to the ground. They can be a little tricky to learn to throw but once you get the hang of one you can find multiple uses for the floppy suckers. Outside of 100 feet I throw a Rattler (which you can just float up to the basket) or a comet with a low skip.

I'm playing par or better disc golf just by taking the approach that any par is a good par and I create birdies from the tee not by taking chances with the approach. It's an old ball golf strategy used by, among others, guys like that hack Tiger Woods.

A big part of scoring well is knowing how to cut one or two strokes per round. This whole philosophy includes knowing when to throw back to the fairway from the shule, when to throw a mid-range down the middle and play for par, or even bogey, when conditions are horrible and/or the wind is too strong or unpredictable to play your usual game.

Sorry for the long post, and great question! A big part of becoming better than just a rec player is really learning the decision making process for scoring well.

Z

[gvan]

I usually make a modicum of effort toward making the shot, but use something that won't leave me too far out if I miss. Unfortunately, I have a psychological fear of going past the basket. I really need to get over that. If I land 10' in front of the target, it never had a chance to go in. If I land 10' past it, at least there was a possibility.

G

[80playedin10states]

personally i go for it having the confidence to make the "comebacker" should i miss..im usually putting from 100' and if i'm short it never had a chance to go in, so i would rather be long 20' than short..gavn hit the nail on the head...same thing goes off the tee for me, on "shorter" holes i'm gunning for the basket(unless there's a hazard of doing so)..you will never get an ace landing short on drives..

[solomon.trenton]

dont be a bitch. GO FOR IT!!!

[andyman]

For me it all depends on who I am playing with. If I am playing with some competitive people, I will lay up and take the easy putt, but if I am just playing a casual round I will go for it.

[taxman]

it's all situational.

if i'm playing a round of golf and there is something at stake (tourney or money) and i'm on the back nine and down by a stroke. i'm going to go for it. thats the only way you catch up.

if i'm in that same situation but i'm up a stroke then i'm going to lay up, take the safe score and hope the other guy messes up.

the trick is to know what your range is. i personally am not very confident in my putting. so my "go for it" range is going to be smaller than somebody who is a stronger putter.

[garublador]

If possible, I try for a line that allows me to go for it but not leave a big comeback putt. Luckily, the best line for this (a hyzer) is also one of the most predictable shots in disc golf. If I can run at it with a fairly steep hyzer I will. If I make it, great, otherwise I have an easy tap-in.

[solomon.trenton]

it's all situational.

if i'm playing a round of golf and there is something at stake (tourney or money) and i'm on the back nine and down by a stroke. i'm going to go for it. thats the only way you catch up.

if i'm in that same situation but i'm up a stroke then i'm going to lay up, take the safe score and hope the other guy messes up.

the trick is to know what your range is. i personally am not very confident in my putting. so my "go for it" range is going to be smaller than somebody who is a stronger putter.

I AGREE WITH THE SITUATIONAL DIAGNOSES, BUT IT SEEMS THAT IM ALWAYS BEHIND SO I MIGHT AS WELL GO FOR IT.:(

[bayouace]

When you make a shot from far out it is exhilarating - like when I made a 3 on a 75 foot approach through the tree tunnel on #8 at Highland in Baton Rouge. Then I realized what a luckass shot it was, since I never did it before and I came back down to earth. But, hey, it keeps you going out hoping for the thrill of when you finally do one again. When I start a newbie out playing and they hit a really nice putt or approach, I tell 'em they're hooked now, and they are.

[DiscChainBasket18]

tourney: lay up
casual round: go for it!

[zensuit]

dont be a bitch. GO FOR IT!!!

I guess I should give back the thousands of dollars I won playing money Ball golf matches by being a "bitch". I loved playing guys with that "go for it" mentality. Now, that said, when you are just ON and nothing seems to be going wrong no matter what you do, you do need to say "F it" and run at everything.

[bjreagh]

Always lay up. Sometimes 2 or 3 times per hole just to be safe!

[zensuit]

Always lay up. Sometimes 2 or 3 times per hole just to be safe!

Middle TN? Do you play at Barfield?

[magictenor1]

I always play for my best score, so for me a layup would usually be best since I am not going to make very many from 100 or 80 feet. the situation comes into play of course. if you are throwing with an uphill terrainbehind the basket you might try it but if there is a big downhill past the basket ,no way. you have to know your own game. I try to do what will allow me to shoot my best score.

[sidewinding]

Wind is a huge factor. If it's windy you almost have to lay up and take your pars. If you don't you may be laying up for a double bogey a few shots later.

If it's not windy I will go for it but with some loft and a little anhyzer.

[solomon.trenton]

I guess I should give back the thousands of dollars I won playing money Ball golf matches by being a "bitch". I loved playing guys with that "go for it" mentality. Now, that said, when you are just ON and nothing seems to be going wrong no matter what you do, you do need to say "F it" and run at everything.

i was kidding. thats what i say to everyone else hoping they miss. when they sink it you look like an ass.

[zensuit]

i was kidding. thats what i say to everyone else hoping they miss. when they sink it you look like an ass.

Damn, I got played!

[Omega SuperSloth]

try taking a knee when you putt that way u can go for it and still lay it up i do it every time on long putts and approoach shots when i need to make sure i make it or miss and get a tap in,

[dangitboy]

If possible, I try for a line that allows me to go for it but not leave a big comeback putt. Luckily, the best line for this (a hyzer) is also one of the most predictable shots in disc golf. If I can run at it with a fairly steep hyzer I will. If I make it, great, otherwise I have an easy tap-in.

Agreed.

There are ways to give it a chance w/o going any more than 10-15ft past. if you have a hyzer then that is the most reliable/predictable.

I also pride myself on my ability to throw a touch shot with just enough speed to get there and then dying out at the perfect moment. You may only hit some of them but your misses are very good (close/not too far away)

Think about aces. How often have you hit one by "going for it"? Maybe you have, but the ones I have hit have been me just throwing a shot trying to park the hole and bang! If I try and "go for it" I usually end up throwing a different shot and often times a less accurate one. Just my $0.02

[myoung]

GO BIG OR GO HOME

[biscoe]

every individual and every situation is different. management is where it's at. a lot depends on how confident you are in your putting.

[scarpfish]

Depends on the situation, but usually when I'm 80 to 100 out, I'm laying up. Of course I want to make sure that lay up is a good lay up. If its windy, I want to aim for the side of the basket that will put the wind to my back on the comebacker.

[_.-Dut-._]

I usually take BrotherDave's approach on 50- to 100-footers: I try a shot that MIGHT go in, but won't get too far away when it doesn't. Dave said he tries a hyzer with a midrange; I usually use my putter, but throw it high enough that it stalls out and drops almost vertically toward the basket.

Here to, throw something with a nice slow lop that stalls out and falls toward the basket. If you miss your within 10' but had a chance at hitting it.

If missing from this distance could result in a bad roll or OB then I just choose to lay-up as I wouldnt be able to hit the 100'er with any consistence anyway.

[gcrussell4]

Don't know if you guys have watched the PDGA video with Nikko winning the Memorial, but his winning putt was a 50-60 footer that he made look like child's play. On the other hand, if you see me out on the golf course, I spend about twenty minutes sweating and resetting every time I am about to take an 18 foot putt. Maybe, possibly, hopefully, eventually one day I can putt like those big daddies which would encourage me to go for it time and again, but until then I am going to be throwing plenty of little weenie shots that are all meant to be layups...unless of course they go in.

[tamahawk]

every individual and every situation is different. management is where it's at. a lot depends on how confident you are in your putting.

the above quote just about sums it up for me! there is a wide variety of people and situations, the key is to do what works best for you. i like the term "management" for this situation.

[biscoe]

Don't know if you guys have watched the PDGA video with Nikko winning the Memorial, but his winning putt was a 50-60 footer that he made look like child's play. On the other hand, if you see me out on the golf course, I spend about twenty minutes sweating and resetting every time I am about to take an 18 foot putt. Maybe, possibly, hopefully, eventually one day I can putt like those big daddies which would encourage me to go for it time and again, but until then I am going to be throwing plenty of little weenie shots that are all meant to be layups...unless of course they go in.


wonder if that putt was with a (not approved) voodoo.

putting is easy to improve compared to other aspects of the game- just takes some (sensible) practice.

[Jimb]

I tend to be in the putting wimp category as my putting generally stinks. So if I go 25' long there's a good chance that I might miss the comebacker. I do tend to hit the basket or pole a good bit on my putts from about 25-50' out. So I guess that I need to: #1) Practice Putting and #2) Stop whining and go for it!

And 100' for me... yeah, that's an approach not a putt. Maybe some year!

[TalbotTrojan]

I feel like I have missed out on most of this thread. Good topic though.

When I first started playing everything was a layup. Slowly and slowly I started to go for it from further and further. And the more I play, the more I am making those long putts and the shorter my comeback putts are when I miss.

I tend to do this with more of a loft putt which can be tricky in the wind and most of the regulars tease me about this style, but I like it and it has helped me score better so take that. Like I have said in another thread on putting, it is really finding what you feel comfortable with.

Recently I have developed a jump putt for anything from about 35' to probably about 120'. This is of course depending on the wind and other conditions.

The biggest first step into improving your game is confidence within 20'. I read something from the PDGA about how their ratings translated over into play and one of the things they mention is putting and the ability to make putts from 20-25'. A pro is making 9 of 10 at the worst and a rec player is making 4 to 6 of 10 from that distance.

[solomon.trenton]

I tend to be in the putting wimp category as my putting generally stinks. So if I go 25' long there's a good chance that I might miss the comebacker. I do tend to hit the basket or pole a good bit on my putts from about 25-50' out. So I guess that I need to: #1) Practice Putting and #2) Stop whining and go for it!

And 100' for me... yeah, that's an approach not a putt. Maybe some year!

i agree with the 100'. same bucket. although my putting is a lot more accurate and more consistent now i still low putt way too much and the longer putts (40'+) i tend to send straight over the chastity belt.:mad:

[80playedin10states]

after reading this again, everyone has some fine points and a great thread...trojan nails it most recently with the word "confidence"...for me, putting is mostly mental after years of muscle memory..i liken it to darts, bowling, and even billiards..you have to instill in your mind that you will make those 20-30' putts..and from 100', you need the confidence to tell yourself i can make some of these and i know i will get up and down from this distance. of course conditions vary greatly, but in general i'm running at that 100 footer!!

[swellerdiscgolf]

I've been working on my putting, and now that I am pretty confident from about 25' out, I have found myself going for those longer putts, because I know if I miss, I can make the comeback. As far as going past the hole, my buddy and I were discussing this the other day. If you come up short 10' from the basket, that is the same as going 10' past it, so you might as well go for it. Unless the terrain says differently.

[swellerdiscgolf]

I've had this thought when I was bowling. I bowled duckpin for 20+ years (you get three balls per frame, with the third one counting ten if you knock them all down) and I always went for the spare on my second shot no matter what the circumstances. I knew that if I missed one of the pins on my second shot I would clean it up the best I could on my third. If I make the spare I can add the next frame in, if I settle for a 10 I get 10. If I miss the spare and take 8 or 9, and my competitor takes a 10, I am only down 1 or 2, but when I make that 7-10 for a spare, it just kills the opponent. i was told by an old coach of mine to not do anything differently from game time to practice and back, so if I am playing a competitive round, and I usually go for it in practice, I am going for it now.

I hope my ramblings make some sence to someone, if not oh well.

[willstradamus]

in rec play, I go for it if I can make myself believe that I have a prayer of hitting it no matter the distance.

in any competative play I play much much safer. This prabably is the reason my scores go down in tournament settings

[80playedin10states]

makes alot of sense sweller(i learned how to play in va. beach by the way)

[Lewis]

I play with guys in doubles rounds that will go for it no matter what. They're probably better putters than I am, but I was paired with a guy last week who threw a putt in the creek that was right behind the basket, and when I threw a pissant little no-chance layup, he said something like "no problem, if you'd putted first and missed, we'd both be in the creek because I'll always go for it." I've also played a doubles round on a different course where I laid up for a bogey after my partner threw his par run into the creek (similar situation, but a longer putt with trees involved). He breathed a sigh of relief and thanked me for keeping us out of a double bogey situation.

This is how the dynamic has worked for me in doubles play.

In general, since I'm not a very confident putter outside about 15 feet, or whenever there's danger past the basket, I'm all about playing it safe. I'm still working on developing a safe shot that will die in the basket or near it (any advice)? When I'm outside putting range, I never go for it, because missing is likely to leave me a long, low-percentage comebacker. I'd rather save par than take a birdie/bogey gamble. As someone else said, I'd rather create birdies from the tee than from my approach. If I become a better putter my philosophy might change.

[magictenor1]

Lewis. I think that is a perfect way to play doubles. You will score much more consistently as a team. I always let the layup player throw 1st and once that is safely done the 2nd player can let fly with full confidence. Single is more about your personal preference but in a team format that is just good strategy.

[EclipticOne]

Magic said it perfectly. i and with you lewis. my putting leaves much to be desired :( if i ever played in a doubles tourney i would be the approach for a par guy and would hope to be paired with a strong putter.

[EclipticOne]

i am with you*

[Omega SuperSloth]

i went for a couple midrange shots today for par when i knew i should of just layed it up beacuse of the wind and taken the bogie and they bit me directly in my a$$ sometimes you just gotta take your losses and move on thats the great thing about discgolf you can start over fresh on each hole, theres alot less stress trying to make up one stroke than 2 when your +1 u feel like aright i can do this just stay focused and when your +2 you start looking around to see if you can still beat a couple people and maybe place, btw if i was playin for real i would have layed up for bogey i mean its stupid to try to throw mid pin from 100 ft out of course if you miss it its probally gonna be bad but if your lay-up goes long u might make it .

[zensuit]

i went for a couple midrange shots today for par when i knew i should of just layed it up beacuse of the wind and taken the bogie and they bit me directly in my a$$ .

In my opinion serious wind adds between 5 and 10 strokes to a round and there is no way around it. I've already been in a tournament where the best second round score for the top ams was 5 over on a pretty simple course just because of gusting winds. I even managed to 4 putt and have one ill-advised hyzer putt sail and end up OB!

So, circumstances really do dictate how aggressively you play.

[Lewis]

So true. I once played a round in high wind mixed with drizzling rain. It got so out of control I couldn't help but be amused, so I kept score. I finished around +25 on a course where I'm normally around even par. I wasn't taking it all that seriously because if I had been, the score would have been similar, and I'd have been cussing myself the whole way 'round the course.

Wind simply adds strokes.

[jace]

Laying up has taken 6-8 strokes off my average last year. I tend to spend more time focusing on getting within 10 feet for a gimme putt rather than going for it. Once inside 50' I have started making it a habit to putt regardless - works on my weakest part of the game. I actually practice 100' hyzers and anhyzers with trees as targets in my yard trying to lay the disc at the base of the tree.

I guess I've started adopting a golf mentality of knowing one iron (midrange) like the back of your hand. Every shot on the course should be playable with one disc between 50 and 200'. Master this disc and we should be hitting par every time.:cool:

[ERicJ]

Like many have said, it's situational. But 100' out is gonna be a layup attempt most of the time for me.

ERic

[Omega SuperSloth]

if you can become automatic inside the circle then laying up becomes less important because your not really worried about going passed it 20-30ft i think thats what seperates the ams from the pros and thats where the better players pick up alot of strokes on the rest of us. so until my putting gets there im still going to try to make it die out in the basket outside of 60ft cause theres nothing i hate more then shootin for bird and writing down bogeys

[Donovan]

Keeping with this situational theme: I take the risk reward approach.

If the ground is uphill behind the basket and I can't get to far away form the basket why not fire away. However if it is downhill and a miss could get out of hand, the layup looks much more inviting.

I feel you go for the putts or even the long approaches that the course gives you. It really shouldn't matter if it is for birdie or bogey. I feel you should play the odds. If you miss this shot, what are the percentages you will be in the chains on the next throw? If it is like 60% I say go for it. if it is like 40% then I would layup. I am not saying 50% is the cut off, because you should go with what "feels" realistic too.

If you are true to yourself and know your limits, use that to make great decisions. But if you are someone who thinks they can make everything just to keep firing for birdies all the time, it may be time to decide if it is birdies your are counting or total strokes. Work on knowing your limits and these kinds of decisions will get easier.

We all know we live for the big shot! :cool: However, those just don't come often enough to go for it every time.

[ShaZaun]

I also upshot that, along with a prayer, stands a chance to go in....sometimes it does sometimes not....but I don't want to overshoot.....

[zenbot]

In my opinion serious wind adds between 5 and 10 strokes to a round and there is no way around it. I've already been in a tournament where the best second round score for the top ams was 5 over on a pretty simple course just because of gusting winds. I even managed to 4 putt and have one ill-advised hyzer putt sail and end up OB!

So, circumstances really do dictate how aggressively you play.
Scott Stokely had the best advice for playing in the wind. Play it safe and let everyone else fall apart.

[Bigdawg313]

The best thing i can say is if you can put well go for it on non windy days, but if its windy out there is almost no reason to try for it.

Just My Thought,
Bigdawg~

[jroll]

I go for it everytime. In my defense I have a floater type putting style so it usually stays within my 15' easy put range when i don't hit the chains