False Fairways

[optidiscic]

I have a design concept and am curious if anyone has any examples of it

I am envisioning a wooded course or even some other obstacle/structure that is difficult to penetrate.

The idea is a Y shaped fairway with the break/fork in the fairway occuring somewhere beyond 180-280 feet range where most players shots will begin to fade and the basket is up one of the fairways but if you should misfire you are not going to fall in the woods and pitch out....you will sail a good distance as it is a false fairway that will take you far off course....kind of like making a wrong turn

Ive played courses with dual basket positions and this can be the case but I am wondering if there is any intentionally designed evil holes like this

And what do you guys think?

[Jukeshoe]

DG is hard enough as is! I don't need to be taking "wrong turns!" :D

[mabraddock]

yes! i like this concept! throw a little too short and end up suffering a four (or too long?) i would make sure that you give a tight, but not obnoxious, line left to the basket so as to not be deemed "unfair" by the haters ... i can hear the whiners already...

[optidiscic]

DG is hard enough as is! I don't need to be taking "wrong turns!" :D

haha I would not want it to be blind but I think some severe lane that takes you somehwere else rather than just sitting alongside a fairway could be interesting although evil

[Dave242]

Here is one - a video of now extinct hole 9 at Kilborne.....a victim of a very nice but very seldom used softball field.

http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/kilborne/kilborne_9_old.mpg

As a lefty, and with the 2 early splitter/guardian trees I had to throw the perfect turn-over shot to get to the pin. If I faded too soon, I would head up that pathway that goes straight when the fairway bends left. From there is was dense sapplings to get to the pin - almost an impossible up and down.

I think this is exactly what you are talking about. I really really like the concept.

[DSmith]

Where are you putting the windmill?

[Jukeshoe]

Where are you putting the windmill?

lol :hfive:

[jhgonzo]

I have a design concept and am curious if anyone has any examples of it

I am envisioning a wooded course or even some other obstacle/structure that is difficult to penetrate.

The idea is a Y shaped fairway with the break/fork in the fairway occuring somewhere beyond 180-280 feet range where most players shots will begin to fade and the basket is up one of the fairways but if you should misfire you are not going to fall in the woods and pitch out....you will sail a good distance as it is a false fairway that will take you far off course....kind of like making a wrong turn

Ive played courses with dual basket positions and this can be the case but I am wondering if there is any intentionally designed evil holes like this

And what do you guys think?


You should put a sign at the fork that says "BASKET ---->" when actually it's <---- :D

[Noill Golf]

Or just don't put the basket anywhere and really confuse us.

[optidiscic]

Dave you are the man...thats exactly what I'm talking about

The monster at fighting creek in VA has some holes that run along pipeline grids that are somewhat like this but they are more like intersections than true DG lines. You had to either layup in the intersection or make hyzer turn....if you threw too straight you had to anhyzer back or layup again...it was an unintnetional but interesting play IMO...but it was more a circumstance of the grids than actual design.

[AJ_86]

You should put a sign at the fork that says "BASKET ---->" when actually it's <---- :D

Have it pointing straight down.

Or hanging with a rotating joint on it, so it can spin in the wind.

[Cgkdisc]

In a way, there are holes like this but the "bad" route isn't a deadend but just a longer or less desirable route. Houck has the triple route hole 6 on the Jackson at the IDGC. You might end up on a route that you weren't aiming for that's longer. Similar thing on the dual route hole 8. This can happen on doglegs like 12(?) at Hornet's Nest where you can fly by the opening for the dogleg to the right. I guess rather than a dead end, I think continuing the route so it's longer, tougher would be more appropriate.

[optidiscic]

I don't find it gimicky and it would be well marked..maybe even visible basket from the tee. I just think its an interesting way to demand hitting a specific line.
You could lay up to the gap or you could go for it...but it would be fun to watch your buddy flip the wrong way (great design idea) or ****ty if you flipped the wrong way (bad design) LOL

[optidiscic]

In a way, there are holes like this but the "bad" route isn't a deadend but just a longer or less desirable route. Houck has the triple route hole 6 on the Jackson at the IDGC. You might end up on a route that you weren't aiming for that's longer. Similar thing on the dual route hole 8. This can happen on doglegs like 12(?) at Hornet's Nest where you can fly by the opening for the dogleg to the right. I guess rather than a dead end, I think continuing the route so it's longer, tougher would be more appropriate.

Ahhh the long and winding road...Ive seen this before and it is interesting but I like the dead end as it would force a comeback or some creativity to recover...I'm more into the idea of an early short cut route that if missed leads to a potential sinister lane where no tree will knock it down and it will just keep sailing in all its wrong way glory

[Cgkdisc]

A cliff on one side of the fairway would achieve this effect. You don't make the bend and fly off into space...

[mabraddock]

i actually thought of houck's articles about design when i saw this thread, i think this concept works great because it spreads out the ok from the good and then the great shots... any givin saturday who knows who can hit the "proper" line...

[optidiscic]

A cliff on one side of the fairway would achieve this effect. You don't make the bend and fly off into space...

yeah I thought of that...sort of like the hole of the day today LOL.

There are numerous ways to punish an errant throw but I liked the idea of an actual lane where you had to throw back....why?
cause I like the idea of if a shot hyzering off as a mistake and then on the comeback an anhyzer/flick is required to make the turn coming back.....a built in test of skills to recover if you make a mistake.

[bettsjc]

Here is one - a video of now extinct hole 9 at Kilborne.....a victim of a very nice but very seldom used softball field.

Dave, where was this hole situated? I play Kilborne more than any other course. I've been playing a little over 1.5 years. The first time I played Kilborne was the last day old #2 existed, So I started playing when hole 10 already was running alongside the new softball field. Are there any remnants of the old #9? The "be the disc" in your link was the first time I've ever seen that hole, and the front part of it appears alot like what is now #8(which used to be hole #9).

[bettsjc]

In a way, there are holes like this but the "bad" route isn't a deadend but just a longer or less desirable route. Houck has the triple route hole 6 on the Jackson at the IDGC. You might end up on a route that you weren't aiming for that's longer. Similar thing on the dual route hole 8. This can happen on doglegs like 12(?) at Hornet's Nest where you can fly by the opening for the dogleg to the right. I guess rather than a dead end, I think continuing the route so it's longer, tougher would be more appropriate.

I'll tell you what, blowing by that gap on the Nest #12 can be a killer! Been there before...

[mashnut]

I like the idea as long as the signage is good enough that you know before you throw what happens if you miss your line. I would be annoyed playing a course the first time and throwing down what looked like a nice fairway only to find myself at a dead end. If it's well marked so going down the wrong path is due to thrower error, I think it could be a really fun way of adding challenge, especially if you make it to the correct fairway and get to watch your friends trying to recover.

[mabraddock]

yeah I thought of that...sort of like the hole of the day today LOL.

There are numerous ways to punish an errant throw but I liked the idea of an actual lane where you had to throw back....why?
cause I like the idea of if a shot hyzering off as a mistake and then on the comeback an anhyzer/flick is required to make the turn coming back.....a built in test of skills to recover if you make a mistake.


:hfive:
this is an awesome way of separating the big arms that punish the lackluster course design that you see today from the people who can actually make their disc move through the obstacles that are meant to make a course good... i think (and especially for a championship level) courses should incorporate hole that make you decide what line you REALLY want to take.... even if it is the more challenging shot...

[Dave242]

Dave, where was this hole situated? I play Kilborne more than any other course. I've been playing a little over 1.5 years. The first time I played Kilborne was the last day old #2 existed, So I started playing when hole 10 already was running alongside the new softball field. Are there any remnants of the old #9? The "be the disc" in your link was the first time I've ever seen that hole, and the front part of it appears alot like what is now #8(which used to be hole #9).


It is hole 9....edited - woops I forgot that they have recently reconfigured the course a little. Same tee pad, but the basket shown in the video is a little longer and a little to the right of where it is now. That "false fairway" was over what is now the edge of that retention pond (low spot).

If you look at the bottom of the history page (http://www.charlottedgc.com/history.asp) I made on cdgc.com, you can see the other holes that were altered by the renovation. Kilborne is still a pretty good course, but it is a bunch of notches lower than it used to be.

[bettsjc]

I always hear about how hole #10 used to be way better than its current state. Just watched the "be the disc" video for the whole Kilborne course, which must have been done sometime longer than 4 years ago. The course suffered a little with the latest adjustment about a year and a half ago. #1 is all messed up, it was way better before. The exclusion of (old) #2 and the addition of new #9 really hurt the course, IMO.

Another thing that I've been noticing about Kilborne before I played, they have some pin placements that are no longer utilized. The ones on the back remain, 15(y-position), 16, and 17, but the alts on new2/old3, and new3/old4 don't exist anymore. the "skillborne" layout, I'm afraid to say, doesn't look like it will make it

[Coasterbrad]

or even some other obstacle/structure that is difficult to penetrate.

The idea is a Y shaped...

Nobody has made the joke yet? Come on people!

[sgamerp]

I really like this idea. it could be really fun/ hard shot.

[GoodDriveBadPutt]

I like this idea, but I am seeing it completely different that you are, optidiscic.

I see it as taking some really nasty rough, and making it more forgiving to an errant shot. Like, instead of the disc being 50' in the deep woods, it is now 50' in a clear area. Or, are you thinking, this way the bad shot is guaranteed to be 50' in the woods, instead of possibly hitting a tree before that point.

In other words, it makes the hole easier if you were going to miss a tree and end up there anyway, or it makes the hole tougher if you were going to hit a tree and stay close to the "real" fairway.

--------------------

To your original question, I know I have not seen anything like that. The closest I can think of is an closed-open-closed hole layout: from the forest, into a field, into the forest. Kind of similar if you overshoot the second entrance, and have to come back/get lucky to get a look at the entrance.

[zenbot]

Ye has come across a BLUE TREASURE CHEST. What will ye do?

-Open
-Disarm
-Continue

Ye opened the BLUE TREASURE CHEST. It was TRAPPED!

-45 HP

Thou hath fainted.

:(

[optidiscic]

I'm thinking an errant shot is guaranteed to follow some cleared out fairway\clearing where recovery requires bush whacking or a reversal shot back up the false fairway which would be an anny whereas you accidently hyzered into that false fairway to begin with.
So if you can't flick flip or anny to hit the optimal lane and you hyzer into the false lane you have probable 2 extra shots

[superberry]

I like it. If you can't keep turning at hight speed, or don't fade back enough at low speed, the design of the hole will punish you even more for player inability. NICE!!!!!!!!!!

[superberry]

Add yet another element...
Say the flase fairway could be penetrated 50-100'. Continue with that false fairway on a route far around maybe to the backside of the green, so that the second shot is a decision to continue on this false path (that still requires skill) for 2-3 more shots, or just kicking back to the 'real' fairway.

[superberry]

I guess that's not really a false fairway then, but a split fairway with one being much more difficult, even 1-2 more throws longer.

[tallpaul]

A hole on the original Picnic Hill course in Wisconsin was designed somewhat similar to this. That portion of the course got eliminated and it's now only nine. Anyway, I helped cut a hole that was long and was called the diamond; because it had a big diamond shaped rough area in the middle of the hole. You had to go around one side or the other of the rough; and depending on which side you ended up on, would require you to throw and anny or a heizer as your next shot. I think Superberry may have helped cut of the original back nine of this course as well.

[vslaugh]

I think Deer Lakes #14 might be a relevant example. Both the left and right
"fairways" look equally appealing (or unappealing) off the tee. However, the left lane has a high-percentage shot to get over the second ravine and in a good position for your third shot while the right lane has a much tighter gap with lots of knockdown trees before and over the ravine. That's how I've found it, anyway.

[superberry]

A hole on the original Picnic Hill course in Wisconsin was designed somewhat similar to this. That portion of the course got eliminated and it's now only nine. Anyway, I helped cut a hole that was long and was called the diamond; because it had a big diamond shaped rough area in the middle of the hole. You had to go around one side or the other of the rough; and depending on which side you ended up on, would require you to throw and anny or a heizer as your next shot. I think Superberry may have helped cut of the original back nine of this course as well.

I cut a TON of dogwoods on many of the Picnic Hill meadow holes! That diamond hole wasn't what it was cracked up to be, you could just spike hyzer or tomahawk over the middle because the pin was only 320' away. A true 'choose your fate' fairway would lead you on a path with no return and no chance of crossing over or out of it. That's difficult to acheive based on terrain that is typically alotted to disc courses. Private courses probably have a few of these holes.