So I hear all this stuff about discing down.

[Speedly]

Which I've done recently, and my last couple rounds have been played with great success!

I read all the time about people unhappy with new players having warp-speed discs and the like, and after switching my bag around recently, I've jumped on that bandwagon too.

So! My question.

I have nothing in my bag that I play that's higher than speed 9. How will I know when it's time to pick up the higher speed stuff again and play?

[Dthunderchicken]

The best answer I can muster is probably not what you looking for but here goes. When you feel that you're getting everything you can out of what you are throwing, then try something faster.

When I injured myself some years back, I took all my drivers out of my bag. When I figured that I was getting my max distance with good control is when I started using drivers again.

I wish I had done that when I first started playing.

[medicinalfunk]

When I injured myself some years back, I took all my drivers out of my bag. When I figured that I was getting my max distance with good control is when I started using drivers again.


do this

[hewittdallas]

What they have said is definitely right. However, this will often be evidenced by your ability to park +300' throws with a mid. That's not the only sign, but that means you are well on the right track. :)

[chain-addicted]

When you can start throwing farther than 200 feet: It's time for a Groove.:thmbup::D

[Lewis]

What they have said is definitely right. However, this will often be evidenced by your ability to park +300' throws with a mid. That's not the only sign, but that means you are well on the right track. :)

If you can do this you may never have any need for anything faster than a Teebird anyway. :p

[JTacoma03]

I have nothing in my bag that I play that's higher than speed 9. How will I know when it's time to pick up the higher speed stuff again and play?

First, welcome to the discing down club.

Your question prompts another question - how good do you want to be? If you're just a recreational player, then discing down is really just to learn more control with shots. As soon as you feel more comfortable and accurate start building it back up. If you want to be competitive on the other hand, then I'd do as suggested and get to a point where you can throw midranges over 300' accurately.

Personally I'm the latter, and before these last couple weeks where work has swamped me I was just getting to that point of throwing buzzzes to 300' on a straight line (very little or no S)...and I'll tell you it takes practicing in a field at least 1-2 times a week for 30-45min. (longer just wears out your arm) to start seeing results.

[Technohic]

The question of how good you want to be is a good one. Its pretty much up to you to set the goals for yourself.

The thing is, the guys like Avery with big arms, can throw their mids and fairways so far, I wonder how often they really need to reach for their Destroyers or whatever.

[cfair]

The question of how good you want to be is a good one. Its pretty much up to you to set the goals for yourself.

The thing is, the guys like Avery with big arms, can throw their mids and fairways so far, I wonder how often they really need to reach for their Destroyers or whatever.

often because when they play tourneys their tees are usually set back so they have 600' and 800' holes. They do have holes that are shorter but many of them require at least a teebird or faster to complete. Its why so many of them carry molds for every gap.

I think that setting reasonable goals is a good idea because if you just wait till your comfortable you don't push any farther. I use to think that 280' was a good distance for my mids. Now I use my putter and my mids are breaking 320'-330'. I'd like to be able to cleanly and confidently put my comets out to 360'-380'. 400' would be awesome...

So what discs are you using and what would you like to put each discs at.
Putter - 280'
Mids - 350ish?
fairways - 400'-420'ish?

that give you an idea of something to shoot for? check out The Process thread for some ideas.

[Speedly]

First, welcome to the discing down club.

Your question prompts another question - how good do you want to be? If you're just a recreational player, then discing down is really just to learn more control with shots. As soon as you feel more comfortable and accurate start building it back up. If you want to be competitive on the other hand, then I'd do as suggested and get to a point where you can throw midranges over 300' accurately.
Thanks for all the responses!

An answer to Tacoma's question: I always will want to be better and improve, whether that means crazy D or super-accurate shots. I shot a record-best-tying round at my home course (+8 at Shady Oaks in CA, not great, but great for me) this last weekend, but I'm already looking ahead as to what I can improve on. So, to summarize, I will always want to be better and better, no matter where I'm at.

I hear your point about midrange throwing - maybe I'll give that a run. Thanks!

[sloppydisc]

Here is a simple, fun goal for you. Get good enough with your putters and mids that you can use them and beat someone better than you on their home course. To do that you will need to not only gain some of the distance cfair was talking about, but you will need to be able to accurately shape many lines. Pure distance is nice, but mixing it with some shot control and touch will help you get better on the course too. Learn to play better before all that distance comes, and then you'll be so much better when you start throwing farther. Good luck.

[NateDiscFlip]

People that carry a lot of discs don't always live up to the size of the bag. Intimidation is the guy who shows up with a putter, buzzz, and teebird. There's a 50% chance the guy is a noob or a baller. Less is more in this game on many levels.

[lokirising]

Yeah, al lot of people buy a ton of discs and only actually use a few of them.

[BrotherDave]

Not to repeat too much b/c it's all been good stuff (except for Chain Addicted), but it really depends on you. Arm speed, form, hand size all that good stuff plays a factor.

Deciding when to move up really boils down to this: 1. Is this comfortable? 2. Am I getting decidedly more D with disc B over previously used disc A? 3. Is this gain in D coming without a significant loss in accuracy?

If you answer yes to all or most of these ??? then chances are discing up is for you. I'd just move gradually up the speed scale to see if speed 10 really outshines speed 9 rather jumping right into Nuke/Boss territory.

[djjeremiahj]

Discing down is a throwing level as much as it's a methodology.
as far as a throwing level here is a basic bellweather -

As a throwing level:
Putter:200-250
Roc/Buzzz: 250-300
Teebird / Eagle / TL : 300-350
*Always closer to the upper number.

As a methodology:
when you can push these discs to this range, the game really opens up and the precision aspect really becomes pronounced. Your game score usually drops when you hit this level as any shot within 350' becomes a "point and shoot" shot. You look at the marker and think - "325' to the pin? if i got a clean line i can park this no problem." Also, the precision placement of these discs help shorten the next shot (or atleast clean it up and make it automatic).


How this affects upper speed discs....
When you can reach these levels, you understand that a faster disc is just a utility extension of the Teebird. A Sidewinder is used IF you need the "S" side-to-side movement; an SL is a very straight long disc, a wraith goes far but hooks, a katana is just a "kinda precise, super max distance" disc, etc. Once you realize this, and you have the requisite range, you stop relying on the faster discs for distance but for their purpose; sometimes their purpose is max distance and sometimes it is not.

[HCD Studios]

Look up golf. Then read about club choice. That will help you understand. Also Ken Climo said it well when he said that he takes full swings and uses the disc that matches the distance that he is throwing.

Also no matter what discs you are throwing have 2 or 3 of them to practice with. When you have 3 of the same weight, mold, and plastic it is easy to tell that you are throwing consistently because its you and not the disc. An added benefit comes when you loose one and have a replacement sitting at home that is worn in the same from practice.

[agent_peebody]

discing down = win

[garublador]

If you look at Joe's Flight Chart it will list about how much power is needed to throw any given disc at it's cruise speed. IMO, it doesn't make sense throwing most discs (overstable ones might be an exception) until you can hit those distances.

However, just being able to throw those distances doesn't guarantee that those discs will really add anything. You may find you don't really get much more distance but do lose a lot of control from the faster discs so they really aren't needed. Part of that has to do with hand size and grip strength. Ideally you'll have the technique and skills to get more out of the faster discs, but IMO, it's fairly low on the list of important skills to have.

Now, when does it makes sense to work on those skills? IMO, that's when deciding how far you want to progress comes into play. There are three major plateaus most people hit once they have solid mechanics (distances are approximate).

First
Putter: 250'-280'
Mid: 300'-320'
Fairway driver: 350'-360'

Second
Putter: 300'-310'
Mid: 320'-350'
Fairway driver: 380'-400'

Final
Putter: 350'+
Mid: 380'+
Fairway driver: 420'+

You may have heard these described as "little snap," "half hitting" and "full hitting."

Discing down is an important step to getting to that first plateau for most people. Eliminating uncontrolled OAT and not "strong arming" are two major things that keep people from getting there. Many are happy with getting little snap and you can be competitive at that plateau. The hammer pound drills make getting to that next plateau way easier than it was before. Few get to that last plateau. You'll probably find that working on snap to get past that first plateau is difficult with faster discs. You'll half or full hit much more often with speed 6-7 and slower discs than with faster discs.

[Raptor]

Do ball golfers ever play putter-only rounds?

[mashnut]

Garublador's got some great stuff there. I'm at the low end of that second plateau, and I got there by spending a ton of time discing down to just wizards and even just zephyrs to eliminate oat, and to slow down and work on my timing.

Oh, and our putters aren't really all that analogous to putters in golf, that's why a lot of them are called putt and approach discs, they're more like your putter and all your wedges, and I could see pros going out to a shorter course and working their wedges off the tee quite a bit.

[garublador]

Do ball golfers ever play putter-only rounds?The disc golf putter is analogous to a golf putter, wedge and 9 iron. I don't know enough about golf to know if people play round with just those clubs or not, but I'd guess it might be a helpful drill for a newer golfer.

[Technohic]

Do ball golfers ever play putter-only rounds?

I dont think you can compare apples to apples with this analogy.

Putters in ball golf are the only club meant to keep the ball on the ground. A disc golf putter still has to fly through the air the same as a driver does.

Really, equipment wise ball golf and disc golf have almost nothing to do with each other. The only similarities in the game is you use a tee, although in much different ways, and you try to get an object into a "hole" which happen to be 2 very different things as well; and in as few strokes as possible, setting up the term "par".

I might as well ask for those that try to throw a Boss for 250' holes if a golfer would use a 1 wood on a par 3 hole.

[BigDaveC]

No Ball golfers wouldn't play a whole round with a putter, or a putter, wedge and 9 iron for that matter. They might however (and should) go to the practice tee and work on just the wedge and 9 iron say or the putting green and work on the putter. Ball golfers would benefit too from "discing" down in that many of them should take say a 6 or 7 iron and go to the driving range to work on their technique. And in fact would probably score better using shorter clubs on the course initially.

When I was walking after my discs in a field this summer practicing I was thinking a disc golf driving range would be pretty cool. Like you could lay out a couple of dollars and get a big stack (50?) of the same mid range disc or same putter and work on form. Don't get me wrong I certainly need the walking, but even buying 2-3 of the same disc, you don't get the same kind of repitition you can get at the ball golf driving range.

[tom8658]

I might as well ask for those that try to throw a Boss for 250' holes if a golfer would use a 1 wood on a par 3 hole.

I might, but that's only because if I'm playing bolf:
a) I don't know the difference anyway, so I just reach in the bag
b) I've had multiple beers
c) I can throw the stupid ball further than I can hit it
d) For that matter, I can throw the club further than I can hit a ball.


When I was walking after my discs in a field this summer practicing I was thinking a disc golf driving range would be pretty cool. Like you could lay out a couple of dollars and get a big stack (50?) of the same mid range disc or same putter and work on form. Don't get me wrong I certainly need the walking, but even buying 2-3 of the same disc, you don't get the same kind of repitition you can get at the ball golf driving range.

I think there's at least one disc golf store with a driving range. That's also why I chose a couple molds, then traded away everything else for backups - having a dozen wizards and a dozen buzzzs makes field work way more efficient. What I really need is an *indoor* driving range... I hate doing field work in the cold and snow.

[NateDiscFlip]

discing down = win

I can't give up high speed discs that get the job done at a distance, but more and more, I am reaching for the eagleX and teebird. Distance is one thing, but having mastered these two discs has accounted for the majority of all the shots I may normally use a huge driver for. Big D usually means a big skip, and for shots that tighten up at the end, having shot placement is everything.

Less is more in so many ways

[Spatula Cornroll]

having a dozen wizards and a dozen buzzzs makes field work way more efficient.

There is no way that you have 12 wizards that are the same. I am a wizard fan, and have a hard enough time finding 4 that are the same. :)

[tom8658]

There is no way that you have 12 wizards that are the same. I am a wizard fan, and have a hard enough time finding 4 that are the same. :)

Heh. I don't think I even have two wizards that are the same.

[Spatula Cornroll]

Heh. I don't think I even have two wizards that are the same.

Every putter is custom made for individual people. It's just that you're putter may be in another state, under a different name.

Edit: I played a lot of ball golf in high school and college. I would play rounds with a 5i, PW, Putter. I knew I may not crush the ball off the tee, but I knew I could have total control with those 3 clubs. I would think that the same would translate to disc golf. You can easily control a couple of discs, your score may be a stroke or two different, but you are more controlled in your shots.

[tistoude]

I usually try to keep up with the Discing Down threads and I wanted to ask in a very inoffensive way if any of you guys that are doing the discing down system are competetive? Do you play Open with all the distance and control gained? Are you mostly Rec level players just trying to get better? I think discing down is a very real theory and I am slowly trying to back off and push my lower discs farther. The reason I would like to know this stuff is I am a fairly decent tournament player and my distances are not near what is claimed in some of these threads. For accurate/controlled distance I go:

Putter 230'
Mid 275'
Driver 330' BH 400' FH

[garublador]

There is no way that you have 12 wizards that are the same. I am a wizard fan, and have a hard enough time finding 4 that are the same. :)I've had at least a dozen Wizards over the years and all of the softs and mediums I've had have been pretty much interchangeable as far as flight goes.
I usually try to keep up with the Discing Down threads and I wanted to ask in a very inoffensive way if any of you guys that are doing the discing down system are competetive? Do you play Open with all the distance and control gained?It's mostly geared towards intermediate/rec players looking to gain the skills needed to either break through a scoring plateau or learn to play better on courses they aren't really familiar with. Some people are advanced level who have hit a plateau and want to be more competitive. If you're already competitive in pro you probably already have the skills that most learn through discing down.

It will only help with distance is that's what you work on. Granted it will make working on distance a lot easier if you disc down, but there's no guarantee that extra distance will magically happen, but it's not impossible, either. Chances are if you do get distance just by discing down it will mostly be with your slower discs. Your max D might not really change at all.

[sloppydisc]

My guess would be that there is field distance, and go in the woods and shape a line distance. Maybe it's just me,but I get more distance out of every disc in the field than I do during a round. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, who knows?? But your distances would make you competitive on almost every course if you have good control and good putting ability.

[Spatula Cornroll]

I wasn't referring to the flight of any particular wizard, since most are dead on the same. I was referring to the makeup of the disc itself.

[DiscJunkie]

There is no way that you have 12 wizards that are the same. I am a wizard fan, and have a hard enough time finding 4 that are the same. :)

If you are serious abut getting 10 or so discs that are the same, go to Marshall Street (http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com) or GottaGoGottaThrow (http://www.gottagogottathrow.com) and check out their X-out sections. You may have to be patient and talk to the people on the phone, but they can match up your discs for a practice stack. On some discs, you can match up weights and colors. You may not get your preferred disc, but you can usually get 10 of a driver or mid-range or putter.

[SirRaph]

I certainly think that learning to throw controllably at full power is great.

I will say though, I played with a pro/open player a couple months ago. I threw Buzzz on a <300' hole with very tight double mandos straight up the gut. Good release, but turned my body just a hair too soon and nicked the mando tree on the right, shooting it OB.
He threw a beat up champ Teebird, 70%-80% power, straight down the middle, and made a run at the basket.

Since that round, I've thrown a River or TL the same way, and have had a lot of success.

Again, discing down and powering up is great for practice. But knowing how to disc up and power down to a more controllable pull during rounds when it really counts (tourneys) has helped win me the last two tournaments I've entered. Both on wooded courses.

[garublador]

I wasn't referring to the flight of any particular wizard, since most are dead on the same. I was referring to the makeup of the disc itself.Silly me, evaluating discs based on how they fly. ;)

IMO, no good comes from worrying about how a disc feels. Just getting over it will make one less thing that can cost you strokes and it makes buying discs a lot easier.

[cfair]

or you can just stop throwing gateway... :\

and yes learning when to use what disc is very important, but it comes with the territory of being a pro... I would say discing down as a process is more for rec intermediate players. But I have heard top level pro's doing practice with certain discs they don't use in a tournament in order to keep their form clean and to work on certain skills (like using nose up to stall around corners and such).

[tom8658]

I wasn't referring to the flight of any particular wizard, since most are dead on the same. I was referring to the makeup of the disc itself.

I understood exactly what you meant. The only wizards that fly significantly differently for me are the floppy SSS wizards. When putting, they're all pretty much the same, some just feel better, which is really important in a putter - for me at least.

If you are serious abut getting 10 or so discs that are the same, go to Marshall Street (http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com) or GottaGoGottaThrow (http://www.gottagogottathrow.com) and check out their X-out sections. You may have to be patient and talk to the people on the phone, but they can match up your discs for a practice stack. On some discs, you can match up weights and colors. You may not get your preferred disc, but you can usually get 10 of a driver or mid-range or putter.

I got most of my wizards this way - whenever I order anything from MSt, I get 2-3 x-out wizards. Really, I'm not a good enough player that small differences in the discs have an effect on my game - as long as they are all about the same stiffness I don't notice except for putting.

[chrishysell]

my player rating started going up when I went to throwing only Nukes off of the tee and approaches with a Zone. Is that discing down?

[Technohic]

No...

[Beable]

I usually try to keep up with the Discing Down threads and I wanted to ask in a very inoffensive way if any of you guys that are doing the discing down system are competetive? Do you play Open with all the distance and control gained? Are you mostly Rec level players just trying to get better? I think discing down is a very real theory and I am slowly trying to back off and push my lower discs farther. The reason I would like to know this stuff is I am a fairly decent tournament player and my distances are not near what is claimed in some of these threads. For accurate/controlled distance I go:

Putter 230'
Mid 275'
Driver 330' BH 400' FH

Tim, you're a great player. I wouldn't worry about measuring up against message board distances. If you can use this concept to add to your toolbox, that's awesome. But when people generally talk about their "max" range on these threads, I don't think they're talking about controlled golf D.

If you want to see it in person, you should PM Mike C (might have to do it on DGR, he left this site). He lives in Ohio, not far from us, I think and is one of the guys who loves to throw Wizards over 300 feet. Maybe he'd meet you at Moraine or something. But he is not a tournament player, so maybe it wouldn't matter.

The guy who won the Deer Lakes Course Championship was a pretty inexperienced guy from the Carolinas who is a DGR reader...he was very big on the PD when I talked to him. Of course the field wasn't that big that day, and Jerry had helped pour concrete the day before...but it's a data point anyway.

Signed,
A Rec Level Player Trying to Get Better
(who has been housed by tistoude)

[tistoude]

Thanks for the advice and kind words Garublador and Beable. I'm always looking to improve my game and maybe I'll keep working on the discing down where possible. Matt, we'll go another round this spring!

[Beable]

Have you met bcsst26? He is often at Deer Lakes and is into the mechanical stuff they discuss at DGR. Not an amazing golfer, he's intermediate and doesn't play much with the club, but was talking this year about how he can throw his Roc about 350 now. Might be worth hooking up with him also.

[Technohic]

LOL Yeah, Mike C can throw a Wizard over 350'. I havent seen it in person but I've seen the videos at a course where he is parking holes with it from longs where I cant reach with my drivers from the shorts. He's out of Canton, OH; which has a course that is definately open enough for him to use that ability, and if not, Deis Hill isnt far from there and it definately does., and Im not sure how far that is from Pit.

He might come answer a PM here but DGR is probably your best bet since I havent tried PMing him since he left.

[Jabanger]

When you can start throwing farther than 200 feet: It's time for a Groove.:thmbup::D

You are an evil evil person! :hfive:

[BrotherDave]

my player rating started going up when I went to throwing only Nukes off of the tee and approaches with a Zone. Is that discing down?

I think so, for what's it's worth. You're a DC sponsored pro so I'm guessing you have the arm for a Nuke ;).