disk golf on ball golf courses' does it work?

[Rex in Or.]

ok here it is, are there any combo courses that work... what makes them work and what makes others fail? would like to get a list of combo courses and talk to the people running them. welcome any feedback thanks

[prerube]

Tupelo Bay SC (a small pay to play near Myrtle Beach)

They have to be relatively short golf courses. Usually Golf courses are there to make money, so adding a big metal basket to their pristine grass with out promise of brining in extra profits is not a popular idea.

[thedrew300]

Old English Golf course in English, IN. The dgers love it. Not sure who runs it though.

[hedfan1]

There is a Ball Golf course that has closed in Brainerd, MN and from what I see, it could become a possibly sweet DG course. But it would need to survive on just DG revinue.

[mashnut]

Edgebrook Golf Course in Chicago is an ok combo course, it makes for a long and open dgc but I've never had issues playing with the golfers there. Indian Springs in Trafalgar IN is a fun course with some elevation and water, and they did a nice job of putting 18 tees and pads on a 9 hole ball golf course to make 36 possible holes (L and R tees and baskets along each ball golf hole), I liked this one a lot. The ball golf course next to Hobson Grove in Bowling Green KY has a 9 hole dgc, it's another long and wide open one though. Little Bighorn Golf Club in Princeton IN is a very different set up. It utilizes the space between ball golf holes and next to the course, so it's got a lot of nice wooded holes mixed in with the long open holes, probably my favorite combo course that I've played. All of these seem to work just fine with ball and disc players sharing the space, I've never had an issue with it at all. Those are just the ones I've played, there are a bunch out there.

Edit: Forgot about Sun Valley in La Mesa CA, a little 9 hole golf course with some nice elevation and creative use of the trees and bushes to make some trouble around dg greens.

[harr0140]

ok here it is, are there any combo courses that work... what makes them work and what makes others fail? would like to get a list of combo courses and talk to the people running them. welcome any feedback thanks

Are you a PDGA member because there is a thread over there about this very topic right now.

[scarpfish]

In most cases, I think disc golf on ball golf courses works about as well as multipurpose football/baseball stadiums did.

[Rex in Or.]

not a PDGA member at this point, and in fact just joined the local club last month but I have been going to the meeting for about a year now. I don't play the tournie's,it's hard to get weekends off more of a rec player. I am a converted ball golfer, I love the sport both of them.

the local club had a course at our municipal golf course for about 6 monthes a couple of years ago but management had them pull the baskets. just want to know if it can work and how.

[mashnut]

One more extinct shared course: Emerald Isle in Oceanside CA, I never got to play it but I hear it was a great course with some fun elevation and water hazards. From what I hear there were no problems, but for whatever reason the HOA for the community the golf course was a part of decided to pull the disc golf course last year.

[roadtripstuff]

There use to be a pretty nice one in Oceanside, CA. The course was great and worked well for a long time. Rumors are the reason the DG course is no longer there is because the HOA didn't like the DG crowd and required the management company remove the baskets if they wanted to renew their contract with the course.

"^ yeah what he said"

[harr0140]

not a PDGA member at this point, and in fact just joined the local club last month but I have been going to the meeting for about a year now. I don't play the tournie's,it's hard to get weekends off more of a rec player. I am a converted ball golfer, I love the sport both of them.

the local club had a course at our municipal golf course for about 6 monthes a couple of years ago but management had them pull the baskets. just want to know if it can work and how.

I am still a golfer and picked up disc golf just 2 years as something to do while roadtripping to FLorida every winter. Hooked!!!! I am still a way better golfer than disc golfer but I am still improving.

I am actually proposing a course to the owner of the golf course I belong to. A local pro is going to supply the baskets and mats for the course for the winter only so we do not have to contend with golfers, but at least it will give us another winter course to play. The course is way too busy in season to allow it to run in conjunction with golf and disc golf.

[Sadjo]

There's a company out of California called FLY18 that works are installing Disc Golf on tradional golf courses. Just installed one in Union, SC in November. Played on the grand opening and will be back Christmas weekend to play.

It can work. Big question is will it work long term?

[DavidSauls]

Big question is, How do you define "work"?

---Remain installed and available for, say, 5 years, even with limited play?
---Generate enough fees to pay for design and installation costs in a fixed period (say, 3 years)?
---Have enough disc golf play to be regarded as one of the better, more popular courses in the area?

South Carolina now has 4 shared courses, each quite different in situation and design.

[Brall]

ok here it is, are there any combo courses that work... what makes them work and what makes others fail? would like to get a list of combo courses and talk to the people running them. welcome any feedback thanks


never done one but i'd like to. i plan on doing mulligan springs (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1590&mode=ci)in kent ohio in the spring

judging from the reviews on that course and others that are mixed like this, it's all about timing and remembering that the paying customers have priority.

[blind pilot]

Pat(owner)has a nice piece of land there.What do you plan on doing there in the spring?
Pat has given a couple buddies,and I, the go ahead to redo the layout,in the past,but we never took him up on it. He let us run an event there,a couple years back,we just had to pay him what he estimated he would make that day.

Pat doesn't get alot of ball golf traffic,w/the growth of disc golf in this area,if Pat could put in 18 holes that utilize the land,he could prob. get more disc golfers than ball golfers.

With wingfoot being so close,hopefuly more people will go to mulligan springs.

Pat was never too concerned w/ improving the course or lay out,because he said he never saw enough people playing to warrant a change.If more people start going there,then there's a better chance for improvements.

[smook]

La Mesa, CA there is a ball and disc golf course called Sun Valley. About 50/50 ratio between ball golfers and disc golfers but the holes seem to short ball golfers and to long for disc golfers. This is because they put the disc basket way past the green, making a 470' hole a par 3.

[Peterb]

Spring Valley TX. (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1858) Really fun course that has 18 holes of wooded treasure, along with 9 on a ball golf course which are all about distance. They told me they get 75% of their revenue from DG (greens fees, snacks, pro shop).

[jsun3thousand]

isq9TkOrtzs

[Smigles]

There is one in the toscana in Italy.

The area is very nice, the grass is trimmed, the bushes are tidy, the fairways are HUGE. But so are the holes. None under 500 feet, quite a few over 600 feet. Bring your big arm if you want to play there ^^

[Rex in Or.]

First, much thanks to everyone, your posts have been and are very helpful.

Second, my definition of "works" is you put the baskets in, everyone has fun, the course is profitable and they stay in. Limited play is an option but not preferred and if it's going to be pulled in 2 or 3 years why put them in?

my personal interest in this, I love the sport and for our size of town and interest we do not have enough courses. The 2 disc golf courses we have are played year around and packed in the summers. Erosion on both courses is a serious concern. The cities park and rec dept. recognizes the need for more courses but at an acre per hole it's hard to find.

I play ball golf as well and the municipal course seems to struggle, what if it could double it's patrons and income over night?

Questions...

If you were to call an existing duel course to collect information, what questions would you ask?

If you were going to a golf course to propose adding disk baskets, what additional information would you want?

Again Thanks

[Rex in Or.]

hay harr0140 were is the thread on the pdga site? couldn't find it, I'm web challenged.

[harr0140]

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1444815#post1444815

[RussMB]

Big question is, How do you define "work"?

---Remain installed and available for, say, 5 years, even with limited play?
---Generate enough fees to pay for design and installation costs in a fixed period (say, 3 years)?
---Have enough disc golf play to be regarded as one of the better, more popular courses in the area?

South Carolina now has 4 shared courses, each quite different in situation and design.

Since Tupelo is in my backyard, and my "most played" course. I'll chime in on this. It works, yet it has it's drawbacks.

1. During the warm weather, it's God awfully crowded. You can find yourself waiting during a back up. You will play faster than the regular golfers. Which means you can Drive, approach, and hole out, and the golfers will still be on the next tee. Forget playing solo.

2. It's fairly basic. For Myrtle Beach, it's just another "Touristy" thing to do. akin to miniature golf.

It is lighted, and open till 11pm in the summer time. During this time of year, the course is virtually empty. Which is a bonus.

[Sadjo]

Questions...

If you were to call an existing duel course to collect information, what questions would you ask?

If you were going to a golf course to propose adding disk baskets, what additional information would you want?

Again Thanks

I don't know if you would need to call other courses that do this for information and much as you need a plan of action to bring to the decision makers. You mention that there isn't enough available land. Is there the money to purchase 19 baskets (need a putting basket) and the money to install Disc Golf tees?

If there's the money to buy the hardware and it's already a city owner and maintained property, I'd go to the manager of the course first and then to the city council and go from there.

No matter what other courses that have done this say, it will be up to you to sell the vision.

[DavidSauls]

I'm generally skeptical of disc golf on ball golf courses. Tupelo is one of 4 courses in South Carolina, and seems to have the best chance. It's in a fairly populous area with few or no other options (none until recently, and as I understand it, still no "great" courses in the area).

Some of the hurdles disc golf on ball golf courses must overcome:

* Pay-to-play, and more than a nominal $3 or $5 as on other pay-to-play courses, especially in areas where there are good free courses nearby.
* Too much open space, making it harder to design a really good disc golf layout.
* Possible poor reception from ball golfers.
* Long rounds, 3 or 4 hours, if there are ball golfers playing the same area.
* If in a heavily-populated area, there are usually better courses around. If in a lightly-populated area, there are few disc golfers to support it, and it must rely on peple traveling long distances. There aren't enough of them.

Of course, there are advantages to the concept. It's just a question of whether the advantages (bar, restaurant, golf carts, groomed grounds, lights, etc., etc.) can overcome the hurdles to generate enough play to make it a success.

Which does bring us back to the definition of "success" of a disc golf course on a ball golf course.

Of the 4 in South Carolina, Tupelo is apparently working out, Crestwood and Lake Murray, to my knowledge, get very little play, and River Chase is new, built on the Fly18 model, so the jury's out.

[RussMB]

(none until recently, and as I understand it, still no "great" courses in the area).

* Pay-to-play, and more than a nominal $3 or $5 as on other pay-to-play courses, especially in areas where there are good free courses nearby.
* Too much open space, making it harder to design a really good disc golf layout.
* Possible poor reception from ball golfers.
* Long rounds, 3 or 4 hours, if there are ball golfers playing the same area.
* If in a heavily-populated area, there are usually better courses around. If in a lightly-populated area, there are few disc golfers to support it, and it must rely on peple traveling long distances. There aren't enough of them.

Of course, there are advantages to the concept. It's just a question of whether the advantages (bar, restaurant, golf carts, groomed grounds, lights, etc., etc.) can overcome the hurdles to generate enough play to make it a success.

Which does bring us back to the definition of "success" of a disc golf course on a ball golf course.

Of the 4 in South Carolina, Tupelo is apparently working out, Crestwood and Lake Murray, to my knowledge, get very little play, and River Chase is new, built on the Fly18 model, so the jury's out.

Hopefully the "no great courses" status won't be the case much longer. ...hopefully!

I think you hit the nail on the head. I've played Crestwood... Oh lord! It could definitely be more than it is. It's got decent potential to be a standard, nothing stellar, but not that bad, type course. But it had issues that made me actually say Screw the 6 bucks, and I walked off the course. (See review)

You said it about the Price tag of a Golf course, especially when an executive course is on the same property. They aren't going to be cheap! Hell, even offering a locals discount would be nice! 7$ for 1 round of 9 and 10$ for 2 is a bit obscene. IMO. They would attract some more Golfers. Don't get me wrong though, playing at night on the lighted course is pretty cool!

Now, they do have a VIP card at Tupelo. 25$ gets you 5 plays. So that might be something to consider if you are in town for a couple of days.

I probably should add that to the profile! lol

[Tylerr]

There is a ball golf course right next to Blythe park ( a new course in Seattle )

We sneak over there every now and again and hit the back 9. I love it. If you don't have the arm for it, you wont make par even remotely.

But if you do. it can be quite rewarding.

I personally find ball golf courses to be a lot of fun, when you are feeling like you can give every hole 110% otherwise its just a lot of walking in open spaces. Kinda boring.

[sillybizz]

There is a ball golf course right next to Blythe park ( a new course in Seattle )

We sneak over there every now and again and hit the back 9. I love it. If you don't have the arm for it, you wont make par even remotely.

But if you do. it can be quite rewarding.

I personally find ball golf courses to be a lot of fun, when you are feeling like you can give every hole 110% otherwise its just a lot of walking in open spaces. Kinda boring.

Wayne Golf Course, yeah I didn't know you lived by Blythe! Cool I play out there sometimes, great course for Super Class! :)

[humchris85]

I played one in Paridise, CA, and it was fun. Good layout, and able to use areas of the property not useable for ball golfers.

[weeman]

Old English Golf course in English, IN. The dgers love it. Not sure who runs it though.

The golf course there runs it. The baskets were paid for and installed by Dave Greenwell. Management at Old English love having disc golf there. It brings in extra cash on some days where they're not expecting anything. I've gone out there with a big group with snow/ice on the ground and they welcomed us with open arms.

The ball golf course next to Hobson Grove in Bowling Green KY has a 9 hole dgc, it's another long and wide open one though.

Those baskets have been pulled. It was initially installed on a two year plan to gauge the interest of making it permanent and potentially installing baskets on other courses. From everyone I've talked to, the course wasn't very popular and was only used in one tournament. Personally, I didn't like the course. It was just bomb after bomb with no water, sandtraps, and minimal tree incorporation to make it worthwhile.

[Marv Vega]

Two in our area are extinct, Red Hawk http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1908 and Saint Andrews Links http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1506. Red Hawk was excellent and Saint Andrews was a fun course to air it out in, it was nice to be able to rent a cart in the summer. We still have Lutz left http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1506, which is kind of a funky little course.

[discinboogs]

I have the same interest. In Michigan there are so many golfers it would be nice to go somewhere where I can play seriously without unnecessary interference. I definitely would not mind paying greens fees to play a well designed dgc on a bgc.

[j0atz]

It's just not a good idea heh...it would be boring to play DG on a typical ball golf course. Also...2 totally different crowds heh..doesn't mix. I don't wanna be around ball golfers anyway!

[RussMB]

It's just not a good idea heh...it would be boring to play DG on a typical ball golf course. Also...2 totally different crowds heh..doesn't mix. I don't wanna be around ball golfers anyway!

There is that!! Although, I haven't had to many issues, the couple that I've had have been caused unnecessary use of my stomach acid!

[VenV]

Definitely talk to Reese of Fly18. I have. I will definitely try and find a way to fit his model into my area. He has lots of good ideas about what has worked and what hasn't on the courses he has installed. As an avid ball and disc golfer, I think most ball golf courses do not have a great disc golf course layout available. It takes a special course. Ball golf is about hitting from fairways onto the greens. Disc golf is about finding lines through the airways. They just aren't the same. If the type of people that use the ball golf course are the same type of people that will play the disc golf course that's a good sign.

[DavidSauls]

Reese is definitely a leading evangelist of blending disc golf with ball golf. It's less clear whether his concepts are the best way to accomplish this, or how successful they've been beyond the initial installation.

[Sadjo]

A dozen or so played Disc Golf at River Chase (ball) Golf Course in Union, SC yesterday afternoon. That course was installed back in November. The course has been tweaked since it first went in the ground and we played with their regular clientele on the course.

It's also best to keep in mind that the ball golf courses that are adding Disc Golf tend to be more blue collar courses.

The two guys that own the course have begun playing Disc Golf and said yesterday that some of their regular players have tried their hand at Disc Golf.

[DavidSauls]

That's great to hear. I was at the Opening Day and, though I doubt I'll play it very often, I wish River Chase much success. It does have the benefit of being a great piece of property.

[Sadjo]

That's great to hear. I was at the Opening Day and, though I doubt I'll play it very often, I wish River Chase much success. It does have the benefit of being a great piece of property.

Being a part of the course being installed there and it being my wife's hometown, I will probably play there an average of once a month.

Now that I've played it a couple of times, I begin to notice some different options that might make the course more challenging and take better advantage of the terrain. I'm hoping that some more tweaks could be made to the course.

[simpletwist]

I play and love both. But a shared course doesn't sound like a good time to me. Typically a ball golf course is 2 or 3 times longer than an average disc golf course. And any quality ball golf course would be to wide open to challenge your technical disc golf skills.

imho

[DavidSauls]

True, but there may be ways to make the disc golf more technical---at least on some ball golf courses.

Holes may run on the opposite side of the cart path from the fairway, with the path marking OB, creating a less-open fairway, perhaps with trees.

Holes could be created in the fringe areas, in whole or in part. Some ball golf courses have land that's not being used, or barely being used, that is very suitable for disc golf.

You could create 2 disc golf holes per ball golf hole, with the tees/baskets at the midpoint far enough out of the way to not impair the ball golfers. You could even create two stellar 18-hole disc golf courses on a single ball-golf course.

Other than the fringe areas, these concepts might still allow use of golf carts, and keep the disc golfers in the general flow of the ball golfers.

On the other hand, Reese's concept is one disc golf hole per ball golf hole. This enables disc golfers and ball golfers to play together, even share a cart, while playing their different-style games. But it does impose design limitions.

(Reese designed the River Chase course. In its original configuration, it wasn't very technical, but was very long---13,000 feet. Allows big arms to bomb some shots, especially off some very big hills, which is always fun. And of course if you to throw rollers, it's terrific.)

[Danger]

^Another thing I noticed about discing on a ball course is that we play our holes MUCH faster than ball golfers. Since we had a golf cart, another plus, we would just go back and play the hole again from a different tee (they had the red white and blue tees on each hole).

[Sadjo]

Reese designed the River Chase course. In its original configuration, it wasn't very technical, but was very long---13,000 feet. Allows big arms to bomb some shots, especially off some very big hills, which is always fun. And of course if you to throw rollers, it's terrific.

If you've always wanted a roller in your bag, a course of this nature is perfect for working a roller. I think when I played Sunday I threw more rollers off of the the tee than standard air shots. I had four birdie opportunities and three of those were because I was able to throw rollers off of the tee and in two cases my second shot was also a roller. Worse thing was the only birdie I was able to card was on the par 4 hole 12. I put it under the basket from about 280' out on a 600'+ hole.

[jcf5083]

disk golf :gross:

[DavidSauls]

disk golf :gross:

You've never wanted to take a golf club to your computer's hard drive?

[BennettUA]

I saw Sadjo get a sweet roller down off the #4 tee:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/4291/031dc0f8_t.jpg

[BennettUA]

Let's try this again...
I saw Sadjo get a sweet roller down off the #4 tee:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/4291/031dc0f8.jpg

The pin is some 600' away near the big green tree above the orange flag. You can't see it from the first shot, but the pin is protected on the right and front by another pond. So your drive must stay right of the first pond and land between the two water hazards.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/4291/02fea59d.jpg
This second pic shows the approach shot, and the second pond is now in view.
Sadjo's roller went past the front of this pond on the right side and turned and stopped high and dry.
I saw all of this from the hole 5 tee, so it was coming towards us for much of the run. Marvelous throw!

And River Chase is a great place for rollers. Even if you don't have the throw in your game yet, it's the best place to practice -- lots of open space, and the true golf fairways are uniformly smooth and cut, so you can really see what the disc wants to do based on angle of release, snap, angle of ground contact, turn, etc.
Sadjo's roller went

[360DiscGolfer]

I just wanted to cry about Skyline (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2791) being closed. It was an awesome ball/disc combo course. Nothing like crusin around in Golf Carts and chuckin plastic. Sadly they sold it and the new owners decided to yank the DG side of it.

:(

Here is a video showing the course off, part 2 can be found on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6cc9Jq3HCA

(not sure why but i cant get the embed feature to work)

[himynameismatt]

I just wanted to cry about Skyline (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2791) being closed. It was an awesome ball/disc combo course. Nothing like crusin around in Golf Carts and chuckin plastic. Sadly they sold it and the new owners decided to yank the DG side of it.

:(

Here is a video showing the course off, part 2 can be found on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6cc9Jq3HCA

(not sure why but i cant get the embed feature to work)

Since you're in the NW you might like to know the "By the Bottle Slosh" is coming up it's a small tourney that's being played at Lakeview Par 3 golf course in Vancouver,WA

Only comes out to a 10 hole course I guess but should be a fun event.

[360DiscGolfer]

Sweet, I will keep my eyes open for that.


Oh and this is what I meant to do before...

N6cc9Jq3HCA

[chickenonabun]

I just played a newish for this season i think course called Irish Waters which is on the Irish Waters golf club. It is a winter only course, and even on the best day to play probably all winter (high 20's, little snow, frozen ground so minimal mud) there was nobody there. It was an OK course, with no underbrush but enough trees to make it not just throwing accross an open feild a bunch of times. The path of the course was different than the ball golf course, and had some decent distance shots but little elevation and no tee signs or signs on the temporary baskets. without a map, navaigation was VERY hard.

[harr0140]

I just played a newish for this season i think course called Irish Waters which is on the Irish Waters golf club. It is a winter only course, and even on the best day to play probably all winter (high 20's, little snow, frozen ground so minimal mud) there was nobody there. It was an OK course, with no underbrush but enough trees to make it not just throwing accross an open feild a bunch of times. The path of the course was different than the ball golf course, and had some decent distance shots but little elevation and no tee signs or signs on the temporary baskets. without a map, navaigation was VERY hard.

Did you find a blue star beast with barry schultz signature on the top? I am surprised it hasn't been found yet and if it is, I hope whoever kept it enjoys the personally signed disc because I sure would like to have it back!

[Dana]

I'm running a tournament at a golf course at the end of March. Went out last night to work on design. Its looking like it will be around par 65, including a par 6. Much of the course is on the fringe/edge of the golf course, which is actually some pretty solid disc golf land. Then of course we hop into some of the golf fairways to air out a few long ones. I'll post pictures/updates.

Hoping to eventually get permission for a permenent layout. Will probably run some glow events this year, since closing the course for a tournament is quite costly.

[thrembo]

I know that I posted before about one of these being in Sarasota Florida, but it no longer exists, so I guess it didn't work down here. I think the biggest problem was the extreme length of the holes. Golf cart or no, I would not play a course where every hole is 900'-1500'!

[Sadjo]

I know that I posted before about one of these being in Sarasota Florida, but it no longer exists, so I guess it didn't work down here. I think the biggest problem was the extreme length of the holes. Golf cart or no, I would not play a course where every hole is 900'-1500'!

The course in Union, SC is 12,000+ from the long, 9,000+ from the medium and 7,000 from the short tees.

On the long course, the par 3 holes are 300-400' and the par 5 holes are 900-1,200'. I think it plays well...but no two rounds in a day...that can be a bit much.

[jhgonzo]

I just played a newish for this season i think course called Irish Waters which is on the Irish Waters golf club. It is a winter only course, and even on the best day to play probably all winter (high 20's, little snow, frozen ground so minimal mud) there was nobody there. It was an OK course, with no underbrush but enough trees to make it not just throwing accross an open feild a bunch of times. The path of the course was different than the ball golf course, and had some decent distance shots but little elevation and no tee signs or signs on the temporary baskets. without a map, navaigation was VERY hard.

It was a pretty decent course, more than what I expected for DG on a golf course (especially based on what I've read on reviews of those types of courses), and more than I expected for a winter-only course. I think the design could be tweaked just a little bit, which I'm sure will be done since it's a new course, and the tees definitely need to be maintained with the emphasis on a good solid tee shot based on most hole lengths. I really hope they go pay-to-play so there's guaranteed sure footing on tee shots, and I politely yet strongly recommended that to the staff.

One cool rumor I heard from Irish Waters is that they MIGHT consider doing on-season night DG events using this layout! :thmbup: