Help with Layout

[Chrisgeoguy]

I am in the process of maybe getting a course added in my area. Don't have any experience with designing a course, but need to get something together for an upcoming meeting with the powers that be. The following area is wooded, and is relatively flat. There are three pavilions, they are the blue symbol, the green trails are smaller trails, and the purple trail is the main trail that surrounds the park. Any layout you could provide would be greatly appericated. I understand that it not the easiest thing to do with out seeing the site, but just trying to get some ideas. I am going to take a disc out there and try and throw a few holes, and get some ideas and will report back. I will also post some photos of the area as well to give you some ideas of what I am thinking of to get feedback. The area is about 30 acres and would like to get 18 holes with two different tees for each hole. Thanks in Advance.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5289/5277503731_e7cda848ed_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29714645@N03/5277503731/)
DGSite (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29714645@N03/5277503731/) by CJ's Camera (http://www.flickr.com/people/29714645@N03/), on Flickr

[Chrisgeoguy]

Forgot to mention that the land south west of the main trail is also available.

[Steve West]

I think it's better not to give them a layout. Whatever you come up with in a short time will have some flaws, and someone will point out these flaws as an excuse to prevent the course from going in.

Better to tell them that you will use an experience designer to lay out the course. So, you can't present a design until the designer spends dozens of hours looking at the land, and interviewing everyone to determine what kind of course is best.

http://www.discgolfcoursedesigners.org/discgolfwiki/index.php5?title=Main_Page

Better to describe what kinds of things the designer will take into account. For example, no disc golf will intersect with any trails, unless they decide to close the trails to walkers.

Since disc golf uses trees as obstacles, there won't be any widespread clearing of the woods. Usually the trees that need to be taken out for the purpose of good forest management (invasive species, dead or dying trees) are enough to make the area good for disc golf.

Everything on here: http://www.pdga.com/course-development will be much more effective than coming up with a layout.

[grodney]

Don't have any experience with designing a course, but need to get something together for an upcoming meeting with the powers that be.

Honestly, the best thing you can do is suggest to the "powers that be" that they hire a qualified and quality designer.

One suggestion:
http://www.houckdesign.com/


Edit: Yeah, what Steve said.

[Cgkdisc]

Give John Ritger in Atlanta a shout. He's been doing course design in that area, most recently with Perkerson Park. jritger at gmail.com

[Chrisgeoguy]

I think it's better not to give them a layout. Whatever you come up with in a short time will have some flaws, and someone will point out these flaws as an excuse to prevent the course from going in.

Better to tell them that you will use an experience designer to lay out the course. So, you can't present a design until the designer spends dozens of hours looking at the land, and interviewing everyone to determine what kind of course is best.

http://www.discgolfcoursedesigners.org/discgolfwiki/index.php5?title=Main_Page

Better to describe what kinds of things the designer will take into account. For example, no disc golf will intersect with any trails, unless they decide to close the trails to walkers.

Since disc golf uses trees as obstacles, there won't be any widespread clearing of the woods. Usually the trees that need to be taken out for the purpose of good forest management (invasive species, dead or dying trees) are enough to make the area good for disc golf.

Everything on here: http://www.pdga.com/course-development will be much more effective than coming up with a layout.

With this in mind, when they want to meet at the area what is best way to describe the potential and that there is a course within this area. I know that this seems last minute, but I have been working on this for about 4 months, and get the call that they want to meet up this week or next, and really have not gotten an idea of what it is "THEY" want to do. But they are interested.

- I have pitched the idea, that this area in underutilized. (Which the city would like to address)
- Disc Golf would fit perfectly into the passive park idea, that has been set for this park.
- It wouldn't break the bank in comparison to the money spent in other areas. (In my proposal I gave an estimate of 20,000 dollars) - QUESTION - How much should be set aside for clearing fairways and making the course playable. I have seen prices for baskets, signs, and design but not sure about how much it would cost to actually clear the course.
- And would generate traffic in this park, which would also take traffic from a already over crowded course nearby.

I guess my biggest concern is that they have imagination and the vision to picture what the park could be. It is very raw, and really up in the air as to what could be done.

Just a thought.

Thanks.

[optidiscic]

I think clearing of fairways should be done by you and a crew of volunteers....often during clearing the disc golfers eye has to be there...imagine that one critical tree being taken out and your hole is ruined....imagine thorns just being trampled by a dozer and not cleared properly.....imagine debr being put directly next to the fairway and making searches problematic instead of taken to a location of non interference...often unique secret routes and interesting concepts are discovered during the fairway clearings and the holes will evolve.
Its actually fun and rewarding to clear and create the holes.....city crews are better used to remove specicfic large dead trees or sign and kiosk and to some degree leveling tees but even those are best left up to knowledgeable volunteer disc golfers......

You are leaving your course open to disaster if you don't at least consider this

[Chrisgeoguy]

Yeah I totally agree, and that is what we would do.

[esdubya]

We had concrete tees installed by a real concrete company here in MI. I was surprised by the final bill, came to about $25,000 just for the tees. This was for 36 tees, 18 @ 6x12 + 18 @ 5x10. Took them three working days to do the whole course and they are very nice, so I guess you pay for the speed and professionalism. The park (taxpayers) funded this one, not our club. AND this was the lowest quote out of three submitted.

[billnchristy]

Where is this?

Also, not sure if you are or not, but get in on the ADGO board. There are a lot of guys doing course work in the area and I bet you will be surprised by the turn out if things go off and you need help.

[Steve West]

With this in mind, when they want to meet at the area what is best way to describe the potential and that there is a course within this area.
...
I guess my biggest concern is that they have imagination and the vision to picture what the park could be. It is very raw, and really up in the air as to what could be done.

Just a thought.

Thanks.

A couple of ideas:

1. Bring John Ritger with you. Let him describe a vision.

2. Describe the potential from the park department's perspective (both positives and negatives). Talk about the dad bringing his daughter out to play in the park with happy-meal discs. Talk about the hundreds of people who will be using the park, which will discourage undesirable uses for the park. Inform them of the need for trash cans at every tee for the beverage containers. Describe how players plant and twist their feet, so concrete tees are needed to prevent a mud hole. Talk about how fairways won't cross and other ways to keep the course safe for payers and non-players.

3. Describe disc golf in basic, general terms. Tell them how long holes typically are, how much land they take, and that holes can go right through the woods.

4. If you see a couple of sweet places you'd like to put a hole, go ahead and tell them how you would play it, and why it would be fun. But, mention that it all depends on whether it would fit into an overall course design.

5. Get them to an existing course, if you have a good example nearby.

6. Don't worry too much about what you'll say. They'll ask good questions; answer them honestly as best you can. Even if you just bather incoherently for a half hour, your knowledge of disc golf will come out, and they will filter out what they need to know.

Finally, even if they can't envision what the park's potential is, they'll pick up on your enthusiasm. They trust the users' judgment when deciding on amenities.

[dodgeball]

My question would be how much are the trails used? There looks like quite a few in that one section and that could present some problems. Even if that section would offer limited use for DG holes, the other sections looks good. And maybe don't set your heart on getting 18 holes, that's just a number after all. Good luck!

[Chrisgeoguy]

Well, have a date set for the meeting next week.

Steve - Thanks for the graphic. And the ideas. I do plan on taking them to a near by course to show how crowded it is and show how badly needed a new course is. I also totally agree on being honest, just as you said all I can do is answer the questions and try and give the vision of what it could be.

As far as trail use, this park is very seldomly used, the course and a dog park would be the only thing in the area.

I will keep updating this thread as progress is made. And the feedback is greatly appreciated!

Merry Christmas!