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bwiese
12-27-2010, 03:19 PM
If there is a long walk in a course, where would you want it to be? Long walk to the first hole? Long walk sometime during the round, or a long walk from 18 back to the car? I know when designing a course you should find a way to eliminate this, but if there is no getting around it what do you prefer?

chickenonabun
12-27-2010, 03:21 PM
either long walk to the first hole or somewhere in between the round, like from the front 9 to the back 9 would be better than from 18 back to the parking lot.

Midnightbiker
12-27-2010, 03:21 PM
If there is a long walk in a course, where would you want it to be? Long walk to the first hole? Long walk sometime during the round, or a long walk from 18 back to the car? I know when designing a course you should find a way to eliminate this, but if there is no getting around it what do you prefer?

At the Spring Valley course in Spring, TX, if you play the 18 hole, Finess course, its about a 1/4 mile walk to the first tee, and about 1/8 of a mile from the #18 basket back to the parking lot.

prerube
12-27-2010, 03:23 PM
I think there is a thread for this, but I can not find it.
I don't mind before 1 or after 18 as long as there are signs to get you to where you need to go. There is a walk after 18 at the Sarge and I was afraid I was going to get lost in the woods.

I am the only voter so my opinion is the most important :)

Midnightbiker
12-27-2010, 03:23 PM
At the Windwood course in Houston, it used to be about 1/8 of a mile from the #18 basket to the parking lot, but they put in 3 more holes, so from hole 21 to the parking lot is now only about 350ft.

prerube
12-27-2010, 03:28 PM
Giles Run VA has the worst walk I have ever endured. in the middle of the game there is a half mile walk to the next basket, then you have to walk another 1/2 mile a few holes later.

Midnightbiker
12-27-2010, 03:30 PM
Giles Run VA has the worst walk I have ever endured. in the middle of the game there is a half mile walk to the next basket, then you have to walk another 1/2 mile a few holes later.

Why wouldn't they add some holes in those spaces?:confused:

bwiese
12-27-2010, 03:31 PM
is it bad form to vote on your own poll? I don't mind a walk in the middle of a round or beginning, but at the end I dont really want it.

bwiese
12-27-2010, 03:33 PM
rube, have you been to randolph in dublin va? They have a huge walk in the middle there too. The walk is the only way to get from the woods to the kind of open area of the park.

Is giles run in richmond?

prerube
12-27-2010, 03:36 PM
Lorton, Va.
No I have not made it there yet.

Terry C
12-27-2010, 03:36 PM
Long walks between baskets and the next Teepad is kind of annoying to me, It goes against course flow IMO. The course should flow smoothly and not confuse players as to where to go next. I definitely will knock a course rating down a notch if it doesn't flow smoothly.

prerube
12-27-2010, 03:38 PM
Why wouldn't they add some holes in those spaces?:confused:

I am sure there is a reason, it is one of Timber's courses and he usually has a good reason for all of his holes. Maybe the park would not let him put baskets by the bike paths.

optidiscic
12-27-2010, 03:39 PM
Why wouldn't they add some holes in those spaces?:confused:

because you are actually walking in between existing holes (straddling fairways and a dropoff if I remember correctly)...makes no sense...I'm sure the designer fell in love with some holes and compromised flow for a few huge shots

craigg
12-27-2010, 03:40 PM
Why wouldn't they add some holes in those spaces?:confused:

Because the original designer had constraints placed upon him by the park authority. Sometimes you just have to do the best you can with what you are GIVEN.

I had the same thing happen to me during the redesign at Seneca Creek. There is now about a short 1/4 mile walk between 14 and 15. In hindsight, the areas we had originally planned to use tend to get very swampy at certain times of year - so the walk was definitely a better alternative.

prerube
12-27-2010, 03:40 PM
you do walk down by the water, I would love to see the water in play.

optidiscic
12-27-2010, 03:43 PM
Whispering Falls in Greencastle has a huge hike after hole 12 that climbs uphill for what seems to be at least 1/2 a mile
Sedgley in Philly has a huge walk on the outback 9 that is also quite long

Walks are best in the woods where you can define the route....nohing worse than a long walk in the open...."where the hell am I going?"

mashnut
12-27-2010, 03:45 PM
The one long walk I don't like is at the end of the course. I would very much prefer to walk to the first tee or walk at some point in the course than walk after the last hole back to the parking lot.

RussMB
12-27-2010, 03:45 PM
I don't really mind long walks, I enjoy being in the woods. I don't mind walking a long ways to the tee. (ala The Sarge (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2498)), and I don't mind them in the middle of the course. I really only mind if, when I'm finished, I'm tired and it's a long walk back to the car. The long walk at the end of the Sarge really didn't bother me, because I could sit for a bit and rest. I enjoyed the boardwalk that runs through the woods and along the pond. For some reason, The long walk from 18 to the car at the Loris (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3763) course is just long and irritating.

biscoe
12-27-2010, 03:46 PM
Why wouldn't they add some holes in those spaces?:confused:

giles run is in one of the most difficult to deal with municipalities in the country. they kept changing the rules on the designer in midstream- lucky the course ever made it into the ground at all. for what it's worth it is far and away the best course in that area.

Sadjo
12-27-2010, 03:51 PM
When we designed Chattooga Belle Farm in Long Creek, SC, we were given several parameters to follow. They were as follows...

We can cut no trees

We have to keep all basket placements 20 feet from nearest tree(s)

We were given the specifics of the course starts HERE and will end HERE.

With the 70-80 acres of land, specific starting and ending points and not being allowed to cut trees limited what we could do...so we ended up with a transition from hole 8 basket to hole 9 tee of about 2,000'. It's a pretty walk through the woods...that we were not allowed to use. After playing hole 9 there is another 1,000' transition.

A few complaints but not many. Now that the course has been in the ground for 6 months, the owner is more open to some changes...so hopefully the transitions will be much shorter and some tighter holes will begin to be worked into the design.

optidiscic
12-27-2010, 03:53 PM
regarding Giles.....I think it gets mentions so often as a confusing long walk because you are often out in the open and have no bearings where to go your first time there.....this after numerous times of woandering looking for the next tee....I remember it being well marked but in an open setting like Giles long walks are particularly troublesome

Giles must have some awful personalities in charge if they kept screwing with the design and will not let the locals cut out thorns around the fairways.....it actually pisses me off because they would never allow all those thorns on the municipial ball golf course on the SAME property.

medicinalfunk
12-27-2010, 03:55 PM
if the golf is good, i'll walk as far as i need to

disc gopher
12-27-2010, 04:03 PM
from the front 9 to the back 9. with a picnic table, benches, a cool hang out spot, etc. within the walk. 'Cause that makes the walk seem shorter and those things are always welcome to most golfers.

weeman
12-27-2010, 04:16 PM
I've played multiple courses all designed by the same person where instead of a long walk between holes, they just make an overly long hole that does nothing for the course to connect it back to the rest of the holes. I wouldn't mind a long walk at the turn of the front to the back nine if the course makes a loop back towards the parking lot. That way I can get stuff out of my car if I need to or take a quick break before starting the back nine.

gcr_russell
12-27-2010, 04:23 PM
My preferred place for a longish walk would be after the 9th hole on a course where both 9s have accessible starting points to the parking area. However, occasionally a longer walk is inevitable in trying to include the best possible holes in a courses' design.

bcr123psu
12-27-2010, 05:04 PM
Windlestrae Park (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=2747&mode=rev) in PA is strewn with long walks, many undirected. A quarter mile here, a quarter mile there, a long walk through the woods to the wrong tee or somebody's back yard. Horrible.

The Little Lehigh Parkway (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=19&mode=rev&page=2&sort=&tronly=&exp_min=&exp_max=&exp_played=&exp_reviewed=), also in PA (and one of the 2005 worlds courses) has two long walks between hole 4 and 5 and again between 13 and 14. Because it's solid course, you have a tendency to forgive it a bit more, but it does kind of jolt your DG vibe when you have a 5-10 minute walk to your next tee.

If I had my druthers, I'd like the long walk to be on the way to hole #1. That way it doesn't shake up your play as you get it out of the way before you start.

kingjames1014
12-27-2010, 05:15 PM
I'd like my walk to be from the practice basket to hole 1. That way i can warm up the legs and get the blood pumping.

thrembo
12-28-2010, 07:01 AM
No long walks please. If the course is designed well a few shorter walks should be all thats needed.

kinger
12-28-2010, 08:18 AM
Arboretum-Spiker in Canton (my home course) has a nice walk between both parks which falls between holes No. 5 & 6. Holes 1-5 and 15-19 form a 10 hole loop in Arboretum Park, 20-24 are in the same park located across the parking lot, and 6-14 form a long 9 hole loop in Spiker Park.
It actually seems to work well since the entire 24 hole course can be split up into different layouts depending on how many holes you want to play and the walk between parks really allows busy play to be broken up.

scarpfish
12-28-2010, 08:31 AM
I say if its absolutely unavoidable, put the long walk where you need to accommodate the best possible series of holes you can while maintaining a reasonable flow. If that ends up between 7 & 8, 11 & 12, 15 & 16, so be it. Use signage or make a trail to keep the players on track. I'd much rather deal with one super long walk, than multiple long walks.

Timber
12-28-2010, 09:50 AM
Because the original designer had constraints placed upon him by the park authority. Sometimes you just have to do the best you can with what you are GIVEN...

The long walks at Giles Run (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2473) were required to avoid impact on the Riparian Protection Area (RPA). Riparian zones or areas have been defined in several ways, but they are essentially the narrow strips of land that border creeks, rivers or other bodies of water. Because of their proximity to water, plant species and topography of riparian zones differ considerably from those of adjacent uplands. Although riparian areas may occupy only a small percentage of the area of a watershed, they represent an extremely important component of the overall landscape.

Those of you familiar with the disc golf course can see some of the constraints in this county document. Hole 4 was almost a deal breaker because of the slope.http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/parks/laurelhill/PDF/details-H.pdf

I attempted to create two nine hole loops back to the parking lot but that would have required four half mile walks rather than two. I finally settled on a short northern and long southern nine layout requiring a 3/8 mile and 1/2 mile walk during the round.

Four years of jumping through hoops to get this course installed made my hair turn grey! It wasn't until the final year that I realized they had me playing three card monty while the bike trail crew completed their land grab.

prerube
12-28-2010, 09:56 AM
I am sure there is a reason, it is one of Timber's courses and he usually has a good reason for all of his holes. Maybe the park would not let him put baskets by the bike paths.

I knew it wasn't arbitrary. I am sure there are times where you regret getting into this project with all of the restrictions and the way disc golf is their smallest priority.

optidiscic
12-28-2010, 10:04 AM
No long walks please. If the course is designed well a few shorter walks should be all thats needed.

nothing personal but often a design suddenly gets compromised due to some unforeseen issue or unpredictable unavoidable circumstance and your stuck making a decision between a rotten fish and a roadside carcass.

thrembo
12-28-2010, 10:07 AM
nothing personal but often a design suddenly gets compromised due to some unforeseen issue or unpredictable unavoidable circumstance and your stuck making a decision between a rotten fish and a roadside carcass.

I wouldn't fault a course if it had a long walk. I know that sometimes its unavoidable. I guess I should have said ideally there would be no long walks.

optidiscic
12-28-2010, 10:10 AM
The long walks at Giles Run (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2473) were required to avoid impact on the Riparian Protection Area (RPA). Riparian zones or areas have been defined in several ways, but they are essentially the narrow strips of land that border creeks, rivers or other bodies of water. Because of their proximity to water, plant species and topography of riparian zones differ considerably from those of adjacent uplands. Although riparian areas may occupy only a small percentage of the area of a watershed, they represent an extremely important component of the overall landscape.

Those of you familiar with the disc golf course can see some of the constraints in this county document. Hole 4 was almost a deal breaker because of the slope.http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/parks/laurelhill/PDF/details-H.pdf

I attempted to create two nine hole loops back to the parking lot but that would have required four half mile walks rather than two. I finally settled on a short northern and long southern nine layout requiring a 3/8 mile and 1/2 mile walk during the round.

Four years of jumping through hoops to get this course installed made my hair turn grey! It wasn't until the final year that I realized they had me playing three card monty while the bike trail crew completed their land grab.

Ask the county of fairfax how many out of towners like me (pennsylvania) travel all the way down there and stay in some I-95 hotel up the street to specifically spend time and money in their county to use their stupid bike path!!!!

I will bet your course generates more revenue than that bike course ever will

scarpfish
12-28-2010, 10:13 AM
Here's another example I often see that involves a long walk (or two actually), albeit not as bad as some examples cited. Its when you have two parcels of land that combined make a good course, but you have to use a long walk to connect them because the land in between them is used for other activities such as athletic fields. Notice the walk from 11 to 12, and especially from 16 to 17 here.

http://www.kcfdc.org//docs/Course_Maps/pcparkoverhead.pdf

Note to add here, while its not detailed on that map, that empty area holes 12-16 surround happens to be soccer fields.

bikinjack
12-28-2010, 10:16 AM
I'd rather not have super long walks between holes, but if a long walk means no filler holes, and better holes to play, then I'm all for them.

wolito
12-28-2010, 10:56 AM
Beaver Ranch/Confier has a super long walk from the lot to the first tee. It has to be over half a mile long and many reviewers cite that in their con section. Personally I like it as it warms me up a little, physically and psychologically as you walk towards the impending doom of the first 3 holes that go straight up a mountainside. So I voted for before the course but could also see one at the end, just not in the middle please, unless absolutely unavoidable.

superberry
12-28-2010, 11:30 AM
MULTIPLE long walks. Wherever they are needed to get from one good hole to another, or back and forth to your car. I prefer adventure golf on amazing terrain, over cookie cutter parks.

snappyfingers
12-28-2010, 11:31 AM
Somewhere in the middle... like the front 9 to the back 9. Just install a pro/snack shop in the middle of the "long" walk and you'll be golden. :thmbup:

prerube
12-28-2010, 12:00 PM
I wouldn't fault a course if it had a long walk. I know that sometimes its unavoidable. I guess I should have said ideally there would be no long walks.

I would. Timber is amazing at what he does, but I docked Giles for the long walk because it kills the flow and navigation. He made the very best course he could with limitations, but limitations cost that course. It is not the designers fault, that he can not control the thorns or use the water, but I can not give the course a 5 disc rating because the conditions are out of his hands, the fact is there is a 1/2 mile walk in the middle of the game and monster thorns that eat discs and tear clothes.

Timber
12-28-2010, 01:45 PM
Considering the extraordinarily long walks and the blackberry shule, I'm surprised that Giles Run has been hovering near a 4.0 rating. It's possible that reviewers haven't crucified it because they recognize the potential of the land.

Future installation of next tee signs, benches and deciduous shade trees near tees will make the long walks more bearable.

thrembo
12-28-2010, 02:09 PM
I would. Timber is amazing at what he does, but I docked Giles for the long walk because it kills the flow and navigation. He made the very best course he could with limitations, but limitations cost that course. It is not the designers fault, that he can not control the thorns or use the water, but I can not give the course a 5 disc rating because the conditions are out of his hands, the fact is there is a 1/2 mile walk in the middle of the game and monster thorns that eat discs and tear clothes.

A half mile walk is a little extreme and pushes the bounries of acceptability. They couldn't use that space for more holes?

prerube
12-28-2010, 02:13 PM
nope, they are not allowed to use any of that land, the parks department severly limits NOVA on what they can and can't do at that course.

prerube
12-28-2010, 02:19 PM
Considering the extraordinarily long walks and the blackberry shule, I'm surprised that Giles Run has been hovering near a 4.0 rating. It's possible that reviewers haven't crucified it because they recognize the potential of the land.

Future installation of next tee signs, benches and deciduous shade trees near tees will make the long walks more bearable.

I gave it a 3, but I played it in 2008 before the first tourney was played there, thorns were probably at their worst and did not go back until 2010. In 2010 I could see improvements, but construction was messing up the course. This course is better than most of the course I have rated a 3, but I never play when it is in it's best shape. 4 is probably fair

thrembo
12-28-2010, 02:21 PM
Stupid parks department. We need more private courses! I know some people are against pay-for-play courses, but these are usualy better maintained! And less likely to have 1/2 mile long walks!

Radarx
12-28-2010, 03:03 PM
[QUOTE=Timber;631342]I attempted to create two nine hole loops back to the parking lot but that would have required four half mile walks rather than two. I finally settled on a short northern and long southern nine layout requiring a 3/8 mile and 1/2 mile walk during the round.
QUOTE]

Actually I did not mind the 1/2 mile Walk at Giles. Its a nice scenic path that crosses the river. I don't think it takes anything away from the course.

As long as the Path is CLEARLY Marked to get you up and back, then I have no complaints. longer walks just add to the difficulty of the course. Its Disc Golf, not Mini Golf! and its FREE.

The man-eating-disc eating Thorns at Giles are another issue! They either challenge or discourage you to play there.

To me its a still 4-star course. I don't think I will travel back to it from my location. If I was in the area, However, I would not miss it.

bazillion
12-28-2010, 04:56 PM
Well if you have the choice, why not put it where the scenery is best?

You know, that special spot where there's a gap in the trees and you can look down at the nudist colony at the bottom of the hill? :D

REDARMY
12-28-2010, 06:43 PM
if the golf is good, i'll walk as far as i need to

this, folks, is the correct answer.

bwiese
12-28-2010, 06:49 PM
I love the feedback, I am hoping there will be a new course in the future, I like getting all the different sides people have experienced.

optidiscic
12-28-2010, 07:32 PM
there are bitches who will complain about the long walks...these are typically the same guys who will complain about filler holes

You cant win with bitches ...so ignore them and make the best 18 holes you can and forget about the bitches

sloppydisc
12-28-2010, 07:37 PM
The long walk should be along the waterfront where the pretty women are all out tanning on the beach.

Steve West
12-28-2010, 07:51 PM
My vote: anywhere but "to the bathroom".

(For the sake of the neighbors, of course.)

bwiese
12-28-2010, 09:27 PM
A little bit of a tangent, Do you mind a longer uphill walk between holes if it means you get to throw a sweet down hill throw?

optidiscic
12-28-2010, 09:38 PM
Hocking College has a very long walk from the campus setting holes up to a secluded wooded ridge and then a long downhill walk back down....the 6 campus holes below are rather bland and dangerous I wouldve rather had 2 holes up the hill and 1 bomb down and kept the campus holes to a minimum

I think uphill holes are fun and require less space to make challenging....I'd rather always be playing than hiking

bikinjack
12-28-2010, 10:04 PM
A little bit of a tangent, Do you mind a longer uphill walk between holes if it means you get to throw a sweet down hill throw?

If you're gonna make me climb a cliff, you had better give me a reward for doing so, not necessarily the next hole, but soon.

Sadjo
12-29-2010, 12:05 AM
The long walk should be along the waterfront where the pretty women are all out tanning on the beach.

This reminds me of River Chase...the ball golf course that just added Disc Golf in November. Years ago when I was playing ball golf on a somewhat regular basis I would try and draw my shot on hole 7 because there was a house with a large pool that always had plenty of pretty ladies in bikinis by the pool.

If that is still the case all these years later, I might find my self dropping the $12 fee to play that course much more often...

Steve West
12-30-2010, 12:13 PM
Another consideration is parking. If there is a long walk to 1, people will search for another place to park to get closer to the first tee. This could result in a lot of cars parked along a quiet street, or in a business's parking lot, or somewhere else the neighbors don't want cars. It could also tempt players to take shortcuts across places they shouldn't.

I think a long walk from 18 to parking would cause the same problem, but to a lesser extent because only disc golfers with the ability to plan for the future will park near the 18th hole instead of the first tee.

mashnut
12-30-2010, 12:20 PM
A little bit of a tangent, Do you mind a longer uphill walk between holes if it means you get to throw a sweet down hill throw?

I don't mind that at all, I do mind throwing uphill, then walking downhill to throw uphill again.

wolito
12-30-2010, 03:00 PM
Another consideration is parking. If there is a long walk to 1, people will search for another place to park to get closer to the first tee. This could result in a lot of cars parked along a quiet street, or in a business's parking lot, or somewhere else the neighbors don't want cars. It could also tempt players to take shortcuts across places they shouldn't.

I think a long walk from 18 to parking would cause the same problem, but to a lesser extent because only disc golfers with the ability to plan for the future will park near the 18th hole instead of the first tee.

Exactly the situation at Beaver Ranch/Conifer. Nobody likes the long walk to the first tee and start to park where they shouldn't, causing problems to where they want to close or relocate things.

Raptor
12-30-2010, 06:50 PM
I'd take the middle.

When it's between a couple holes, it doesn't seem so bad because your mind is still in the game. You're thinking about the next holes and not the walk.

At the end or beginning, you're only thinking about the destination and the pain-in-the-ass haul you have to take to get there.

jtencer
01-01-2011, 10:05 AM
Something to consider: If the walk is at the end, no one will have trouble with navigation.

Danger
01-03-2011, 05:41 AM
I am ok with a long uphill walk for a really cool downhill, but make the walk worth it :)
Honestly though, I don't mind long walks as long as they are pretty.

basketcase15
01-03-2011, 07:10 AM
http://i47.tinypic.com/2r7vlhi.jpgGive me a couple, I need to lose weight i see whats going on around here....