Do top rated courses produce the best players?

[discgolfer99]

Do top rated courses produce the best players? Do the best "disc golf mecca's" produce the best players? It appears that North Carolina has a ton of so called 1000 rated" players, is this because the courses are superior? How come Iowa doesn't have more top notch NT winning players if their courses are so great? Same for Michigan? If the courses are so great up on the northwest side of Michigan, why no top players? Texas probably takes the cake for lack of top players, how could this be with the best course designer of all time Mr. Houck responsible for many of the top courses?

I am a fan of the sport and play rec golf all over the Twin Cities which has some high regarded courses, how come more top notch talent hasn't come from here? I do go watch the final 9 at the Majestic and each year I'm blown away with how talented the players are. The same local guy makes it in there each year, where are the other locals?

If you look at the top players in world, they come from all over the planet, not just one area or region. When will we have a world champ from Highbridge WI?

[gcr_russell]

Great question. I've always wondered if I had championship caliber local courses whether I'd be a better player. I think a lot has to do with the talent people get to play with. For example; socal has some good courses but not the best in the world, but the players coming out of there are incredible. I think it's partially because they get to learn from some incredible players, upping their potential.

[biscoe]

having top notch players to begin with perpetuates having more top notch players...raleigh is the best example of this- their courses are decent but not great but they have had an arseload of high end players over the years.

[Monocacy]

Do top rated courses produce the best players? Do the best "disc golf mecca's" produce the best players? It appears that North Carolina has a ton of so called 1000 rated" players, is this because the courses are superior?

Probably several factors:

A larger population and larger total number of players makes it more likely that highly-skilled players will emerge.

A core group of skilled players motivates other players to raise the level of their game, and shows them how to do it.

Challenging courses force players to improve their skills and develop a well-rounded game.

How come Iowa doesn't have more top notch NT winning players if their courses are so great? Same for Michigan? . . .

. . . the Twin Cities . . . has some high regarded courses, how come more top notch talent hasn't come from here?

Moderate year-round weather provides more opportunity for people to play and improve. This probably hurts places like Minnesota, Michigan, and Iowa. Dedicated players may continue to play year-round, but most casual players will take a break. Also, disc golf is a different game when it is -10F with 2’ of snow on the ground.

[thatdirtykid]

The more challenging (and diverse) courses make better players.
But better players make better players. Competition is the biggest drive. A lot of people don't know whats possible until they see someone else do it.

[Sadjo]

When a course opened up last summer in my area, a few players commented on how much longer it was than all the others courses in our area and how it was going to challenge them to throw longer which in turn help them be more competitive on longer courses when they travel to play tournaments.

I think several things make great players.

In the upstate of SC, I have heard for years that our area needs a 'World Class Course' But it seems that when a more challenging course gets put in the ground they all complain that it's too difficult or too long.

You've got to challenge yourself no matter where you live, what your competition is or the quality of your courses.

[BarkBuster]

I would imagine it would be based more on the fact that if they live around great courses, there are a lot more events held there to keep their interest and make them strive to win the events.

[jhgonzo]

Go to Sheboygan, WI, and hang out at Vollrath this summer...this is where Barry Schultz learned the game and worked on his skills, and DG is HUGE with the local kids there. They'd probably be pumping out plenty of 1000+ rated players, but the thing is that the kids eventually go into high school and join more competitive sports like basketball. In fact, there was one kid named Johnny Vue who looked to be on his way to be the next Barry or better, my wife and I used to play with him and his little brother all the time; he was the top-rated junior in the state, and I was with him when at the age of 14 he tied Barry's record at Vollrath, deucing every hole. Impressive. That kid always stomped me when we played together (except once, when I beat him by 1 stroke and rubbed that in his face for a while!). Anyway, my point is that Vollrath is considered a pitch-n-putt (though somewhat technical) with only 2 holes of any real length requiring a driver, and the kids just hang out there and play, and play, and play...so you don't need a championship-calibre course per se, just a lot of bored kids in a metropolitan area.

Oh, and that Johnny Vue kid I mentioned? Doesn't play anymore. He's one of the ones lured away by basketball. To each his own, but I have no doubts that you would've seen him everywhere if he'd stuck with it.

[Johnson]

Being a central MN boy I find that each winter I lose a lot of my skill and play catch up the first half of the summer. I've been trying to do more putting practice indoors as the weather has got brutal and by the time I get off work it's pitch black outside. Screw MN winters.

[optidiscic]

My home course is so hard I don't wanna play it every day....I would love to have a simpler funner pitch n putt nearby that I could play every day. I think if I was playing everyday I would become a better player over having an obnoxious beast that just humiliates me and actually hinders my game. I have never learned to really putt well as my focus has always been on drives and fairway lane golf and putting is an afterthought. On a simple open course putting is more important.
I'm not saying having a beast nearby to play regularly hurts but I think playing everyday on a course that emphasizes your short game is really underrated.
If I played on an open course with 250 foot open holes I guarantee I would have learned to putt better as every round is basicaly a putting contest. If you can putt your potentially in every round at every course.
I think playing every day and putting is the key.....this is why I'm trying to get a short fun course put in my hometown.

[BrotherDave]

Variety of courses is definitely the spice of DG life. Any area that can boast challenging, tight wooded courses as well as long open ones go far in making good golfers. I started playing at Castle Hayne in Wilmington, NC which is a very placement oriented course. The locals there really only have that course as an option so they're very specialized in terms of their game. It's funny that a lot of them consider me a bomber b/c when I moved to the Piedmont I started playing a lot of more open courses like Cedarock which enabled me to loosen up and work on snap more.

[scarpfish]

For what its worth...

Location of PDGA 1000 rated players

Alabama - 2
Arizona - 2
California - 31
Colorado - 4
Connecticut - 2
Delaware - 1
Florida - 6
Georgia - 5
Iowa - 2
Illinois - 3
Indiana - 2
Kansas - 2
Kentucky - 4
Louisiana - 1
Maryland - 2
Michigan - 7
Minnesota - 4
Missouri - 3
Montana - 1
North Carolina - 12
North Dakota - 1
New Jersey - 2
Nevada - 1
Ohio - 7
Oklahoma - 5
Oregon - 8
Pennsylvania - 4
Tennessee - 4
Texas - 14
Virginia - 2
Washington - 4
Wisconsin - 6

Australia - 1
Canada - 2
Denmark - 1
Finland - 7
France - 1
Germany - 2
Japan - 2
Sweden - 13
Switzerland - 1

It also should bear mentioning that a player's current location doesn't necessarily note where they cut their teeth. The last three World champions all have Midwestern roots (Feldberg - MI, Jenkins - OH, McCabe - KS), but moved someplace else (Feldberg - OR, Jenkins - OR and then CA, McCabe - TX).

[chrishysell]

As BrotherDave stated it's the variety. There are so many courses to play in NC and so many events going and also many players. They have a points series that plays courses all across NC. To win a points series there you need to be good at all types of shots and courses.

[thatdirtykid]

My home course is so hard I don't wanna play it every day....I would love to have a simpler funner pitch n putt nearby that I could play every day.

Spend time in the field and don't play a course every day. You get better faster, and don't have to play that tough course every day. :doh:


looking at the numbers it looks like big warm populated states have more 1000 rated players.

[medicinalfunk]

Do top rated courses produce the best players? Do the best "disc golf mecca's" produce the best players? It appears that North Carolina has a ton of so called 1000 rated" players, is this because the courses are superior? How come Iowa doesn't have more top notch NT winning players if their courses are so great?

because we party too much. we've got AO (http://discraft.com/team_olsen.html) though!

[hognosesucker]

look at vollroth in sheboygan...not a tough course by any means yet produced shultz and another dude that tallpaul could chime in about. I think it's all the competition base.

Also IA produced sprague, who can still throw with the best of players and Yeti and Des and JK. And IA produces some circus freaks who can chuck plastic...MDR and Callaway

[chrishysell]

look at vollroth in sheboygan...not a tough course by any means yet produced shultz and another dude that tallpaul could chime in about. I think it's all the competition base.

Also IA produced sprague, who can still throw with the best of players and Yeti and Des and JK. And IA produces some circus freaks who can chuck plastic...MDR and Callaway

I think Yeti got better because of the grind. When he first went on tour with Des he would be at tournaments I played in and he really wasn't that good. Eventually he would give me a run for the money and from then he just kept getting better.

[medicinalfunk]

look at vollroth in sheboygan...not a tough course by any means yet produced shultz and another dude that tallpaul could chime in about. I think it's all the competition base.

Also IA produced sprague, who can still throw with the best of players and Yeti and Des and JK. And IA produces some circus freaks who can chuck plastic...MDR and Callaway

sprague knows more about the dynamics of how discs fly and mechanics than anyone around, pretty sure. the guy can throw backhand and forehard with both hands. i've seen him throw some unbelievable shots. MDR is like six foot four and has a cannon, i watched him win one at west lake and he was throwing the **** out of his plastic

[jhgonzo]

look at vollroth in sheboygan...not a tough course by any means yet produced shultz and another dude that tallpaul could chime in about. I think it's all the competition base.

Fine, just ignore my post (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=648938&postcount=8)... :p

[hognosesucker]

I think Yeti got better because of the grind. When he first went on tour with Des he would be at tournaments I played in and he really wasn't that good. Eventually he would give me a run for the money and from then he just kept getting better.

true, he definitely got better after he and des went to tx and started touring

[hognosesucker]

Fine, just ignore my post (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=648938&postcount=8)... :p

sorry gonzo, i just scrolled through most of the thread.

look at vollroth in sheboygan...not a tough course by any means yet produced shultz and another dude that jhgonzo chimed in about. I think it's all the competition base.

fixed:thmbup:

[heelboycraig]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Great players want to play great courses, which lead to more great courses built. Once those courses are built, THEN you will have new players playing these great courses, some of which will become great.

[optidiscic]

Spend time in the field and don't play a course every day. You get better faster, and don't have to play that tough course every day. :doh:


looking at the numbers it looks like big warm populated states have more 1000 rated players.

I don't think u got my point. A simple course places more premium on putting and is easier to play every day. Chucking plastic in a field is not something I would do every day. I've tried it. It's pretty boring and how does it help your putting or short game. I would like a fun short course that allows me to want to play it every day.

[Labelkills]

Brakewell steel. Warwick NY was my home course for my first 3 years of disc. And I'm pretty darn good. *wink* so yea I think so.

[CwAlbino]

I've played with a lot of high end players from Iowa and Mn, and I think it mostly comes down to events attended, and the fact that there is no money in dg for the players right now. I shot a 996 rated round at collegiate nationals last year, I also haven't registered for pdga in 2 years, so my current rating is 864. There's a lot of rec players in my area that would rather play leagues and just go have fun playing disc golf than paying money to get funny money back. As a college student, I don't care to pay pdga fees and enter tournaments when I'm not going to get anything out of it. I have the plastic I want, and an opportunity to win some plastic will just be $40 down the drain, and new plastic thrown in a crate that I'll probably give away later to some noob.

[jdggna]

I've played with a lot of high end players from Iowa and Mn, and I think it mostly comes down to events attended

/snip

I'm convinced playing lots of BIG events drives players' ratings up...A-tiers and such grab more high rated players, giving you the chance to score better (comparatively). Smaller tourneys (C-tiers) pull mostly locals and not as many highly rated players. Shooting the same score will likely produce lower ratings. Not explained the best, but you can get the picture. Obviously being a good/consistent player is important, but the final number comes down to who you're playing against.

[DSCJNKY]

For what its worth...
Location of PDGA 1000 rated players

California - 31
vs.
Georgia - 5
Maryland - 2
North Carolina - 12
Virginia - 2


Yeah... but, if you look at a map of the US, Cali takes up as much room as GA, SC, NC, VA, WV, MD, & DC combined. But, then again, they still have 10 more 1000 rated players that those states combined too.

DSCJNKY

[sloppydisc]

I'd say no. I have played a lot great courses and look at me. Come on, I play Buckhorn and UNC all the time. They are both pretty decent courses. I am still no pro. Someone said something to the effect once, that playing/practicing at a course makes you good at that course. Playing and practicing in a field just makes you good. I think there is a certain amount of truth to that. My guess is that the really good players play more and practice more whether their home turf has a bunch of great courses or not. Thus, they are better than the rest of us.

[Jay Dub]

Greater Cincinnati area has a lot of great courses and a wide variety of them, Idlewild is one of them. Never has a top rated player come from this area. It's been a point of discussion with me and some of my friends. We have a few that can compete now and then, but with all the courses here, Dayton and their courses close by, one would think there'd be a higher percentage of top rated players from this area.

[biscoe]

another factor is the time frame when dg gained a foothold in an area- cali, texico, and north cack were all well-established areas for dg prior to many others... hence more time for infrastructure/player base to grow... which leads to more high-end players.

[Dave242]

having top notch players to begin with perpetuates having more top notch players...raleigh is the best example of this- their courses are decent but not great but they have had an arseload of high end players over the years.

This is the key point by far. Secondarily, the naturals with the required competitive nature need good courses and good/great events to keep them interested.

[Jay Dub]

This is the key point by far. Secondarily, the naturals with the required competitive nature need good courses and good/great events to keep them interested.

This is more important than the type of courses. My best year when I played tournaments was when I was involved in 3 leagues a week plus the doubles on Friday night then the tournament Sat and Sunday. The steady play of competitive rounds improves the mental aspect of the game.
And we all know 90% of disc golf is 50% mental. :p

[disc gopher]

Not necessarily. Because before 2008 delaware had no "top rated", super challenging courses, but Mike Moser came from DE and he's obviously a top pro...and he'd been playing our decades-old courses for years, no top courses. So I'd argue the courses don't have all that much to do with the players that come from the area.

[optidiscic]

I really think it has to do with playing at a basket every day and playing competitively as much as possible. I don't have the discipline to throw in a field everyday zzzzzzzzzz or to putt at a backyard basket by myself ADD will set in fast. Just being honest and I think I speak for many here. A simple nine hole course with a premium on putts and fun factor would probably do more good as your more likely to play it more frequently. A difficult course is more a measuring stick and not a game refiner IMHO. I agree with an established scene of good players and different courses and general area knowledge as being more important.
Interesting regarding cinn. I'd bet those who master those tight lines at idlewild can't putt as well as some lowly am on an open course where putting is 3/4 of your shots opposed to idlewild where it is maybe 1/4 of the game

[himynameismatt]

Oregon Has 5 courses in the Top 30 IIRC. Dave Feldberg is from the Portland,OR area. So maybe there's a connection? I know there's a lot more pros in this area just can't think of any right now.

[Jay Dub]

I really think it has to do with playing at a basket every day and playing competitively as much as possible. I don't have the discipline to throw in a field everyday zzzzzzzzzz or to putt at a backyard basket by myself ADD will set in fast. Just being honest and I think I speak for many here. A simple nine hole course with a premium on putts and fun factor would probably do more good as your more likely to play it more frequently. A difficult course is more a measuring stick and not a game refiner IMHO. I agree with an established scene of good players and different courses and general area knowledge as being more important.
Interesting regarding cinn. I'd bet those who master those tight lines at idlewild can't putt as well as some lowly am on an open course where putting is 3/4 of your shots opposed to idlewild where it is maybe 1/4 of the game

That's another point about players around the Cinn area. There are plenty of top and med rated courses with a variety of designs, Idlewild is just one of them. Open and long, tight and short, tight and long, open and short, rolling hills or just flat. Still it does not produce a high number of players that would be considered top notch.

In the summer time we play a different course every weekend and rarely do we repeat, time permitting. Include Dayton courses and just about every type of hole design is in this area.

[JHern]

It is definitely true that it takes a strong, enthusiastic, energetic, and civic-minded disc golf community to even get ahold of the best properties to establish a great course, and develop the best atmosphere for cultivating the champions of tomorrow. Oftentimes this involves years of struggle, perseverance, sacrifice, hard labor, lobbying, politics, fund-raising, etc., etc.. A disc golf community with these traits is also going to have some very dedicated players who channel similar amounts of energy toward their game as they do to developing the game in their community. They are going to be taking their kids to the course to learn to play, as the community adds a new generation, and then another generation, and you can even see Grandpa, Pa, and Son all playing a round together. They are going to organize great tournaments and begin great traditions, NT-level events will begin and will never end. They are going to establish sports leagues to play disc golf competitively between schools. After a while, everyone who lives in the local community has at the very least heard about disc golf, even Grandma hobbling around in her walker. Disc golf tournaments will be shown on the local television stations. Local municipalities will feel comfortable giving over complete control of parts of their most beautiful parks to the care and diligence of the disc golf clubs. The old-timers who started everything back in the day, whose labor we now enjoy so much, pass the torch to younger folks who have the energy to carry the community to the next level. Those younger kids who were playing on the course grow up and become world champions. Other world champions will move to their community, to thrive in the best disc golf location on planet Earth. You'll play rounds of golf with 1000+ rated players, and scores more of 970+ rated players. World Champion women, masters, grandmasters, will become commonplace. You'll constantly run into folks whose names are registered in the disc golf hall of fame. And so on...

This is Santa Cruz.

[optidiscic]

It is definitely true that it takes a strong, enthusiastic, energetic, and civic-minded disc golf community to even get ahold of the best properties to establish a great course, and develop the best atmosphere for cultivating the champions of tomorrow. Oftentimes this involves years of struggle, perseverance, sacrifice, hard labor, lobbying, politics, fund-raising, etc., etc.. A disc golf community with these traits is also going to have some very dedicated players who channel similar amounts of energy toward their game as they do to developing the game in their community. They are going to be taking their kids to the course to learn to play, as the community adds a new generation, and then another generation, and you can even see Grandpa, Pa, and Son all playing a round together. They are going to organize great tournaments and begin great traditions, NT-level events will begin and will never end. They are going to establish sports leagues to play disc golf competitively between schools. After a while, everyone who lives in the local community has at the very least heard about disc golf, even Grandma hobbling around in her walker. Disc golf tournaments will be shown on the local television stations. Local municipalities will feel comfortable giving over complete control of parts of their most beautiful parks to the care and diligence of the disc golf clubs. The old-timers who started everything back in the day, whose labor we now enjoy so much, pass the torch to younger folks who have the energy to carry the community to the next level. Those younger kids who were playing on the course grow up and become world champions. Other world champions will move to their community, to thrive in the best disc golf location on planet Earth. You'll play rounds of golf with 1000+ rated players, and scores more of 970+ rated players. World Champion women, masters, grandmasters, will become commonplace. You'll constantly run into folks whose names are registered in the disc golf hall of fame. And so on...

This is Santa Cruz.

I love this post and I wanted to mention the father to child relationship as well......locally we have devin frederick whose father has been instrumental in the local scene for some time http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/31053/2010

Nationally I would bet there is some famileal link of generation to generation for disc golf success

Whats great about disc golf is that it can be played intergenerationally and wisdom can be passed....established scenes like Santa Cruz surely do have an advantage

[optidiscic]

Food for thought...

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Pro_Worlds_Course_SSA_98-10.pdf

Great courses and high SSAs but do they really develop better players or just spoil the locals

Yeah Nockamixon is my home course...so you can see why I want a simple course to refine my game rather than a daily beatdown...I'm jealous of you guys with multiple pitch and putts to practice on a daily basis...we just dont have anything like that around here

[zenbot]

I think exposure to the sport helps. SoCal courses are spread out so less kids have e opportunity to play.

[sloppydisc]

Or the teenage kids are too busy hanging at the beach, and checking out all the girls in bikinis. It's very competitive for your leisure time and activities out there. A lot of cool things to do, and near perfect weather.

[sloppydisc]

having top notch players to begin with perpetuates having more top notch players...raleigh is the best example of this- their courses are decent but not great but they have had an arseload of high end players over the years.


You are correct there. We have a bunch of good and very good courses, but nothing truly exceptional or brutally challenging. We could use a few top notch courses added, so that we can start talking trash with our neighbors down south in Charlotte.

[biscoe]

Not necessarily. Because before 2008 delaware had no "top rated", super challenging courses, but Mike Moser came from DE and he's obviously a top pro...and he'd been playing our decades-old courses for years, no top courses. So I'd argue the courses don't have all that much to do with the players that come from the area.

moser cut his teeth in virginia- at bull run in manassas primarily which is one of the easiest courses ever anywhere... by the time he moved to delaware he had been a top pro for years...

[biscoe]

Oregon Has 5 courses in the Top 30 IIRC. Dave Feldberg is from the Portland,OR area. So maybe there's a connection? I know there's a lot more pros in this area just can't think of any right now.

dave's not from oregon and was a known top notch quantity before going there as was avery. i would imagine however that their presence was a definite boon to younger oregon hotshots like sexton, rich, and arlyn.

[chain-addicted]

...We could use a few top notch courses added, so that we can stop being so jealous of our more elite players down south in Charlotte.

Fixed!:thmbup:

[Dave242]

The Raleigh area has more top notch players (1000+ rated) than the Charlotte area has. Probably will be that way for several more years. I have not checked recently, but I imagine Charlotte now has more 970+ rated players than Raleigh which was not the case as recently as 3-4 years ago.

Charlotte has had better courses for a long time and that gap is widening greatly with tons of new courses coming online this winter.

[JHern]

I love this post and I wanted to mention the father to child relationship as well......locally we have devin frederick whose father has been instrumental in the local scene for some time http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/31053/2010

Nationally I would bet there is some famileal link of generation to generation for disc golf success

Whats great about disc golf is that it can be played intergenerationally and wisdom can be passed....established scenes like Santa Cruz surely do have an advantage

This is an important point to make...why are there so many 1000+ rated players and so many epic courses in California (besides there being hella-people here)?

Because Grandpa played disc golf in California, that's why. And he busted his arse to leave something even better for the next generation, and so on. That's how this entire country used to work, and each new generation was better off than the one before. Even though that value is now gone from much of our society in the US, and younger generations are much worse off as a whole compared to earlier generations, we can still do our best to live up to that spirit in the disc golf world.

A lot of you guys are out East, and it is only a matter of time before you begin to score really great properties and build monumental courses. Things are developing there much the same way they did here in California. Just know that it takes a life of work to make it happen, so don't sit around waiting for it. Go out there and do it! Be a shining example of your community, keep your courses glittering clean, fight dangerous criminal activities in the parks, improve the land, do charity fundraiser tournaments and make an impact in your local community, get more positive exposure in the local press. Disc golf courses are growing faster than ever where there are public lands that have been left idle, or turned into an illegal public dump, or host activities involving syringes, prostitution, etc.. Disc golf grows best by improving the land, and replacing it with a valuable civic institution. Find a beautiful piece of land that has been left to grow over and was trashed by people for decades, clean it up, carve out your fantasy course, etc..

[Cgkdisc]

While I 100% agree with the "grandpa effect" and California's contribution to the sport, other parts of the country have shot past CA on course quality and the properties they are built upon for 10-15 years now. I suspect those who have reviewed many courses on here would probably agree. California and the left coast in general have had their growth stunted in comparison to much of the U.S. by environmental issues and land values compounded by the hella-people there.

[zenbot]

I think it's important to distinguish Southern California versus the other 2/3 of the state.

There are approximately 31 courses in the Southern California area out of 180 in the state. Pretty sad considering the historical importance of the area.

[bazillion]

I don't think there could be much of a correlation. Do the top NASCAR drivers come from places with lots of NASCAR activity? Or do they move there because of the facilities available to them there? (Don't forget, in NASCAR you have people making their living by driving. Not many DGers make their living flinging plastic, so they don't have to be located near DG Meccas.)

[NothinButChing]

its the players you play with not the course ... sure some courses attract more pro than others... but in no way would a course help produce a pro over another course.


but maybe in the future there will be country clubs for disc golfing and they will produce the future disc golf versions of Davis Love III and Phil Mickelson.

[Chiefstang]

For what its worth...

Location of PDGA 1000 rated players

Alabama - 2
Arizona - 2
California - 31
Colorado - 4
Connecticut - 2
Delaware - 1
Florida - 6
Georgia - 5
Iowa - 2
Illinois - 3
Indiana - 2
Kansas - 2
Kentucky - 4
Louisiana - 1
Maryland - 2
Michigan - 7
Minnesota - 4
Missouri - 3
Montana - 1
North Carolina - 12
North Dakota - 1
New Jersey - 2
Nevada - 1
Ohio - 7
Oklahoma - 5
Oregon - 8
Pennsylvania - 4
Tennessee - 4
Texas - 14
Virginia - 2
Washington - 4
Wisconsin - 6

Australia - 1
Canada - 2
Denmark - 1
Finland - 7
France - 1
Germany - 2
Japan - 2
Sweden - 13
Switzerland - 1

It also should bear mentioning that a player's current location doesn't necessarily note where they cut their teeth. The last three World champions all have Midwestern roots (Feldberg - MI, Jenkins - OH, McCabe - KS), but moved someplace else (Feldberg - OR, Jenkins - OR and then CA, McCabe - TX).

Not one from NY? That's rough> We seem to have a great variety of courses here. Black Diamond is almost 11,000 ft., and will test your long throws, we have some great wooded courses, and plenty of elevation change.

We also have snow. Lots of it. I feel that playing in the crappy stuff is only going to improve my game when it turns back to tee-shirt weather, but who knows...

[devin_707]

14 from Texas... I wonder how many are from the Austin area? I live in Austin and it is disc golf mecca, like 40 courses in the radius of an hour and a half...

[tallpaul]

14 from Texas... I wonder how many are from the Austin area? I live in Austin and it is disc golf mecca, like 40 courses in the radius of an hour and a half...

Texas hosted many major tourneys in the early days. This is one of reasons it produces fine players. Another is the Texas spirit. Another is John Houck. Another is that big arms come from there; due to the style of courses by and large. Big arms are becoming more and more prevalent in the top ranks as the courses get longer and longer.

[devin_707]

True true. I love it here, many many disc golf courses in my area... I feel like the easy access really helped me improve my game so rapidly.

[scarpfish]

14 from Texas... I wonder how many are from the Austin area? I live in Austin and it is disc golf mecca, like 40 courses in the radius of an hour and a half...

Quite a few...

Eric McCabe - Corinth (DFW area) - originally from Kansas though. :)
Bradley Williams - Austin
Jay Reading - Wimberly (Austin area)
Nolan Grider - Allen (DFW area)
Dixon Jowers - Tomball (Houston area)
J.D. Ramirez - Lewisville (DFW area)
Matt Hall (Scooter) - Ace (northeast of Houston)
Miles Seaborn - Benbrook (DFW area)
Donald Ellsworth - Allen (DFW area)
Michael Olse - Austin
Joel Kelly - Austin
Anthony Daman - Austin
Jamie Callis - Round Rock (Austin area)
Vinnie Miller - Round Rock (Austin area)

Notice really nobody from rural TX. Except for McCabe though, I don't know where the other players originated from, or where they were introduced to playing the sport.

[Scoot_er]

Quite a few...

Eric McCabe - Corinth (DFW area) - originally from Kansas though. :)
Bradley Williams - Austin
Jay Reading - Wimberly (Austin area)
Nolan Grider - Allen (DFW area)
Dixon Jowers - Tomball (Houston area)
J.D. Ramirez - Lewisville (DFW area)
Matt Hall (Scooter) - Ace (northeast of Houston)
Miles Seaborn - Benbrook (DFW area)
Donald Ellsworth - Allen (DFW area)
Michael Olse - Austin
Joel Kelly - Austin
Anthony Daman - Austin
Jamie Callis - Round Rock (Austin area)
Vinnie Miller - Round Rock (Austin area)

Notice really nobody from rural TX. Except for McCabe though, I don't know where the other players originated from, or where they were introduced to playing the sport.

Ace = Rural BTW..........But I am living in Nacogdoches for college now.......still kinda rural with the large cities being at least 2.5 hrs away.

[JHern]

While I 100% agree with the "grandpa effect" and California's contribution to the sport, other parts of the country have shot past CA on course quality and the properties they are built upon for 10-15 years now. I suspect those who have reviewed many courses on here would probably agree. California and the left coast in general have had their growth stunted in comparison to much of the U.S. by environmental issues and land values compounded by the hella-people there.

I didn't mean to imply a comparative judgment here. I'm glad you like the courses where you live, and that you think you can have properties as beautiful as we have in California. And I hope you have already experienced the kind of community, history, and infrastructure that I am talking about. If so, be sure to continue building it and spread it to places that don't have it. It is something truly special.

[keltik]

two things:
first it is surprising that Florida is only home to six 1000 rated players. the most famous obviously is Climo. I thought FL would be a hotbed since it has awesome weather year round and a good variety of courses around the state. also disc golf blends well with the beach/freestyle culture down there.

second I think I have learned more in this thread than I have in a long time. I'm from Raleigh and I used to torture myself at all the big courses because I thought it would make me better. I would dis the smaller courses because I thought they were for n00bicons. when conditions are better I'm going back to the pitch and putts. I have the distance I just need the control/consistency. I think the lesson here is: variety is king and putting is GOD.

[Rockwell]

Using Scarpfish's numbers, and state populations in April '10, here's how many 1000 rated players each state has taking population into account. It would be a better indicator to see cities or course locales, but this is still interesting. CA, even with 31 1000-rated players, only makes 11th on list. Oregon crushes the competition.

1000 rated players per state/country

OR: 1 per 478,884
ND: 1 per 672,591
Sweden: 1 per 730,769
OK: 1 per 750,270
Finland: 1 per 762,627
NC: 1 per 794,623
DE: 1 per 900,877
WI: 1 per 947,831
MT: 1 per 989,415
KY: 1 per 1,010,442
CA: 1 per 1,202,740
CO: 1 per 1,257,299
MN: 1 per 1,325,981
MI: 1 per 1,411,948
KS: 1 per 1,426,559
IA: 1 per 1,523,177
OH: 1 per 1,648,072
TX: 1 per 1,796,111
GA: 1 per 1,937,530
USA: 1 per 2,046,710
FL: 1 per 3,133,551
PA: 1 per 3,175,594
IL: 1 per 4,276,877
NY: 0 per 19,378, 102

[srm_520]

So then, it may not just be a factor of top rated courses, but also the overall diversity and number of courses in the area. Not surprising about Austin.