New Innova tees?

[BrotherDave]

My buddy said that the new course going up in Kure Beach, NC are getting these new types of tees that are like hexagonal or honeycomb type stones that are supposed to be good for draining. Supposedly this is the new thing Innova is pushing for the new courses. Anybody got any idea what I'm talking about?

[medicinalfunk]

pics?

[BarkBuster]

nope...

You're welcome!

[lokirising]

I've seen round tees, but hexagonal?

[LeewayeDiscGolf]

I have no clue but it's an area of disc golf that's often overlooked. So if Innova is in on new tee ideas it should be a step in the right direction. If anyone does know about this, any kinda pics would be sweet.

[EduCatOR]

Sounds like paving stones to me. Will drain but would also need to be maintained more?

[mashnut]

If it is a paving stone type deal, they take a lot more time and work to get nicely leveled and laid so they won't settle, and are more likely to need maintenance later than simple concrete tees.

[lokirising]

I can't really have an opinion on them until I actually use one.

[BrotherDave]

Yeah, no pics, sorry. I think they're supposed to be like paving stones. I'll see if I can't get a pic when if I get down there next month.

[bikinjack]

I'll ask Andrew (works at Innova) about it the next time I see him. And yeah, it sounds like pavers to me too.

[Cgkdisc]

They are plastic with a tight honeycomb pattern and link together to make a tee as large as you desire. Cleats will not snag on them and they aren't slippery when wet when I tried them. They have been testing them on the employee course that winds around the Innova warehouse in Rock Hill for a year or so. Russell Schwarz has been overseeing the development and testing. They must have liked them to move forward with a course.

[optidiscic]

price check?

[lokirising]

Plastic? Well I know that tracks have them to prevent slipping, so they may do well.

[harr0140]

I would guess they are "permeable pavers" . . .I would doubt they are manufacturing them, but they are using them . . . it is a way to avoid the need for retention ponds when doing commercial installations.

The ones I have seen have a crosshatch style with open areas. Take two pieces of graph paper and put one at a 45 degree angle and the lines would be the actual concrete and the open spaces inside of the lines would be open areas inside of the concrete.

You can fill those open spots with gravel or sand (but that might not work long term) or you could plant grass inside of those spaces. However if you plant anything inside of there it will grow over the top of the concrete and will make the tee area slick.

In my opinion if you wanted to use impermeable pavers, the only thing to put in the open spaces would be gravel. I don't view it as a completely sustainable installation however. I will be interested to see if it gets installed anywhere and professionally I do not view the need for the permeable paver on disc golf courses because the amount of square footage of what would be concrete is minimal in comparison to the total acreage of the park. If the teepads needed to be 50 x 50 then I would think the permeable paver would be more necessary and maybe even required by law.

[mashnut]

They are plastic with a tight honeycomb pattern and link together to make a tee as large as you desire. Cleats will not snag on them and they aren't slippery when wet when I tried them. They have been testing them on the employee course that winds around the Innova warehouse in Rock Hill for a year or so. Russell Schwarz has been overseeing the development and testing. They must have liked them to move forward with a course.

Interesting, sounds like it has potential to be really cool. Plastic will be a lot easier to lug back into the woods on courses that vehicles can't get into to lay the tees, and should hold up well to freeze and thaw cycles.

[BrotherDave]

They are plastic with a tight honeycomb pattern and link together to make a tee as large as you desire. Cleats will not snag on them and they aren't slippery when wet when I tried them. They have been testing them on the employee course that winds around the Innova warehouse in Rock Hill for a year or so. Russell Schwarz has been overseeing the development and testing. They must have liked them to move forward with a course.

Yeah, that's what he was talking about. Uh oh, if Russell Schwarz is overseeing the development then they'll probably be in some awkward 'L' shape. :\ :D

[harr0140]

They are plastic with a tight honeycomb pattern and link together to make a tee as large as you desire. Cleats will not snag on them and they aren't slippery when wet when I tried them. They have been testing them on the employee course that winds around the Innova warehouse in Rock Hill for a year or so. Russell Schwarz has been overseeing the development and testing. They must have liked them to move forward with a course.

Chuck are you familiar with Plamann Park Number 1 tee . . . it was used to avoid compaction and keep the turf alive around the tees (at least I am assuming this is why they put it in)

I know you are familiar with Bryant Lake with the plastic put in on some walkways and I think around #18 basket. Is it this type of thing?

I found Bryant Lake to be slippery and dangerous, so I am hoping that is not what goes into these tees. ANy dew on them and they become real slick.

What goes in the open spaces?

[surgeflx87]

The tees in channahon at community park have drainage lines running throughout them. They work great after it rains. The water runs right off. And they are pretty nice during the winter too:D

[Cgkdisc]

My remembrance is foggy on the details. There may have been rubber in the material also. Might have been recycled material. They were wet when I tried the tee on hole one there and I didn't slip. Innova isn't manufacturing them but was just testing them. Enough people visiting Innova have tried them out and they must have decided it worked well enough for a course installation.

[BrotherDave]

The soil at Kure Beach is really sandy too, I wonder if that played a role in this as well.

[mashnut]

The soil at Kure Beach is really sandy too, I wonder if that played a role in this as well.

If the tee is made of separate blocks, it seems like sandy soil would be more prone to settling and leaving the tee unlevel.

[BrotherDave]

If the tee is made of separate blocks, it seems like sandy soil would be more prone to settling and leaving the tee unlevel.

Yeah but they link together supposedly so I guess that would help. I know rubber would be a complete failure out there and I assume concrete would be a pain to install initially, otherwise I have no idea.

Lol, who rated this one star? :confused::rolleyes:

[scarpfish]

They are plastic with a tight honeycomb pattern and link together to make a tee as large as you desire. Cleats will not snag on them and they aren't slippery when wet when I tried them. They have been testing them on the employee course that winds around the Innova warehouse in Rock Hill for a year or so. Russell Schwarz has been overseeing the development and testing. They must have liked them to move forward with a course.
Sounds something like Versacourt (http://www.versacourt-of-texas.com/tile.htm), or other modular plastic surfaces for game courts.

[mashnut]

Hexagonal pieces could be cool since it gives you a lot of flexibility as far as size and overall shape of the tee too.

[Cgkdisc]

I think VersaCourt could be what it is.

[optidiscic]

versacourt needs to be placed over concrete....so not my solution lol

[U_NICED_ME]

Yes, these tee pads are from Kure Beach. I got some feedback from someone who played it and he liked them, they were kinda grippy.

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i413/sesmith222/teepad1.jpg

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i413/sesmith222/teepad2.jpg

[tallpaul]

I don't know about tees; but these do look like a possible good solution for worn areas around tees. Harr mentioned the ones in use for this purpose at Plamann Park, in Appleton Wis. Those have been used around eroded concrete tee areas for a number of years now. They were an experiment that has proved pretty successful. Plamann's are made of rubber and the holes are square and small. I always thought the holes were too small. These look like they would allow the grass to grow through much better.

So, even if these do not turn out to be the best tee option; remember this for use around tee areas; to help hold grass growing back in.

[Thumber]

Anyone know who made the mats?

[sheaD]

I have played on the ones at Kure and they are actually quite grippy. I only had one instance where I slipped and it was due to the beach sand being higher than the tee-pad within the tee-pad (if that makes sense). Basically there was beach sand coming through the hexagonal pattern. A quick inspection before throwing would have solved this. A pro to these pads would be the ability to move the tee-pad whenever you wanted to, could be a minus too if people decide to steal them...

[Thumber]

Anyone know who I should contact at Kure to find out about those mats? We have a mountain course that I think they may be perfect for....fill them with stone dust

[U_NICED_ME]

Bro D might, I can also ask around. I'm guessing someone from Castle Hayne. I could start with the TD from the Azalea. I'll try to find out for you thumber...if Bro D doesn't know.

[Thumber]

Bro D might, I can also ask around. I'm guessing someone from Castle Hayne. I could start with the TD from the Azalea. I'll try to find out for you thumber...if Bro D doesn't know.

That would be greatly appreciated

[sheaD]

"Anyone know who I should contact at Kure to find out about those mats?" Send a PM to Otter of this site. I believe he knows the guy that designed the Kure Beach course.

[optidiscic]

wouldnt it make more sense to just grade the concrete to begin with rather than add expensive interlocking matting to the top of the concrete?

[U_NICED_ME]

Is there concrete beneath?

[optidiscic]

yeah everything Ive read about this surface is it is designed to be placed over concrete surfaces to assure grip...I don't get how this is a solution?

[U_NICED_ME]

I'm going to try to find out opti, I can't imagine laying concrete then covering it with the rubber mat. I sent an email to someone at New Hanover DG, I'll see what they say.

These look similar to the one's they seems to have used. But, I bet the height is really important so you can pack as much sand/paver base as possible. http://www.rubbercal.com/Dura_Chef_Interlock.html

http://www.rubbercal.com/files/Dura-Chef-Interlock-Mats-400-x-300.jpg

http://www.rubbercal.com/files/Dur_Chef_interlock_PhotoB_150x200_Az.jpg

[BrotherDave]

Anyone know who I should contact at Kure to find out about those mats? We have a mountain course that I think they may be perfect for....fill them with stone dust

When I last talked to Otter he told me that it sounded like these came from Innova or that at least Innova played a part in them going in at Kure Beach.

[Thumber]

When I last talked to Otter he told me that it sounded like these came from Innova or that at least Innova played a part in them going in at Kure Beach.

interesting...much thx

I want to try them on rough graded mountain tee boxes. We have them roughly leveled and packed with soil. They now need finishing. I was thinking these could be pinned and the cells filled with stone dust. They would drain well, not spill out and erode and offer decent grip.

We were talking stone dust for finishing anyway, I just thought these may reduce the compacting requirements when finishing and stay firm for longer. Less tread wear at the front of the box as well I bet.

[tallpaul]

I'm going to try to find out opti, I can't imagine laying concrete then covering it with the rubber mat. I sent an email to someone at New Hanover DG, I'll see what they say.

These look similar to the one's they seems to have used. But, I bet the height is really important so you can pack as much sand/paver base as possible. http://www.rubbercal.com/Dura_Chef_Interlock.html

http://www.rubbercal.com/files/Dura-Chef-Interlock-Mats-400-x-300.jpg

http://www.rubbercal.com/files/Dur_Chef_interlock_PhotoB_150x200_Az.jpg

These are very similar to the ones used at Plamann Park to help control wear around the tees. The grass grows through and stays; due to the mat. However, this only works about 2/3rds of the time. Again, I think perhaps the holes are too small for the grass to take root.

[harr0140]

These are very similar to the ones used at Plamann Park to help control wear around the tees. The grass grows through and stays; due to the mat. However, this only works about 2/3rds of the time. Again, I think perhaps the holes are too small for the grass to take root.

Paul, from the looks of the use at Plamann is that these were installed after the area had been severely compacted and the turf didn't have much of a rootzone to retain life. If the area had been aerated heavily, reseeded, and then this installed I bet it would have had a chance to survive. It is all about the culture of the soil not just about what happens above the surface of the soil.

That is just a guess as I have only been to Plamann once, and I have no idea what came first . . . the compaction bare soil or the plastic mesh.

[tallpaul]

Soil was very compacted and though they tried to work with it; they probably didn't do that good of a job on some holes...probably causing the ones that didn't work. In general, it was a good experiment though. That course has been played crazy heavily for 20 years.

[harr0140]

If they had just blown up the soil meaning more or less tilling it to 6" or so, they could have then incorporated seed into that soil, installed the plastic mesh, and I bet they would have a nice density of turf within those mats. These are the things I am hoping to help people understand in terms of turf maintenance. I have seen and done just about everything turf related and know that if people were informed of what is possible decisions would be more impactful and money would not be wasted.

[tallpaul]

I believe it was boy scouts that installed it.

[harr0140]

Installation to me looked good, it is just that the impact of the mesh could have been greater if more prep work was done before the msh was installed.

While the plastic mesh is helpful in keeping you off the dirt . . . it could be so much better in terms of erosion control if turf was growing inside of the mesh. The key to preventing compaction is protecting the crown of the turf plant. the crown is basically at the ground level and the rubber/plastic mat helps to keep the traffice from impacting the crown. if the crown is untouched the turf will continue to grow. The crown is essentially the growing point and if it is protected the turf will continue to thrive.

[cooker]

I've been thinking about using something like this on some crush/dust tees too. More details on the cure beach hex would be appreciated...

I emailed then called the versa court folks. Spoke to a guy in texas that pretty much dismissed using the versa court for this application and recomended we use an artificial turf...... while I appreciate his input, it was a little weird he wouldn't even consider working with me to use the VC....i kinda think they like to work with large courts over small tees.

[sheaD]

Is there concrete beneath?

There is no concrete underneath.

[sheaD]

Those rubber mats used for restaurants are similar in design but not the same thing as what is at Kure Beach. The mats at Kure are more plastic in nature and therefore more sturdy than those rubbery restaurant mats. There is no concrete underneath the mats. Looks to me that basically you just dig out a square about 2" deep (the mats are around 2" in height), place the mat in the square and then fill the hexagonal patterns with dirt. This keeps the mat flush with the surround ground.

[5slamma]

Looks like this course just opened. Let me know who wants to take a road trip from Charlotte

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6122&page=9

[chainmonkey]

The tee material is made from recycled polyethylene. It comes in 18" x24" sections which lock together. It is hex celled and about an inch and a quarter thick. Really strong, will support vehicle traffic. It is recommended that back filling be with fine gravel screenings. When used like that it provides great footing and a water permeable surface.

[cooker]

The tee material is made from recycled polyethylene. It comes in 18" x24" sections which lock together. It is hex celled and about an inch and a quarter thick. Really strong, will support vehicle traffic. It is recommended that back filling be with fine gravel screenings. When used like that it provides great footing and a water permeable surface.

thanks for the info CMonk.... any idea where one can purchase this stuff or what the manufacturers name is?

[chainmonkey]

thanks for the info CMonk.... any idea where one can purchase this stuff or what the manufacturers name is?

No unfortunately I do not, I wish I did. I think they would be just the thing at Highland Hills.

[Thumber]

someone must know the manufacturer

[Cgkdisc]

Contact Innova East and ask for Russell. They may be repping the material.

[who-dat]

http://www.rubbercal.com/Dura_Chef_Interlock.html

http://www.rubbercal.com/files/Dura-Chef-Interlock-Mats-400-x-300.jpg

http://www.rubbercal.com/files/Dur_Chef_interlock_PhotoB_150x200_Az.jpg

those look like food/alcohol service industry mats to me.

[chainmonkey]

Check out Tufftrack®Grassroad Pavers the product seems similar at NDS "we put water in its place"

[Thumber]

Much thanks C-Monkey
http://www.ndspro.com/permeable-pavers/grass-pavers/tufftrack-grass-pavers/

Very interesting (and pricey) stuff

[mashnut]

Could work pretty well, grass is a good surface to throw from in a lot of conditions, and these would keep that grassy area from turning to rutted out mud. I know a lot of people have talked about not being able to put in concrete at local courses, this could be an alternative that would look pretty natural and still provide a level and stable tee.

[Thumber]

I have a driveway that needs to be redone and now i'm thinking paving stone tire ramps and this stuff to make a grass driveway

want to use it at our mountain course so we get really good tees that maintain the rustic look

[chainmonkey]

I have been exchanging emails with Andy Gerberich, AGerberich@getsco.net He is one of the reps of Slopetame2 and Gravelpave2. He has offered to send me a sample of the material. I think I may order enough for one tee just to see how it will work and if I am satisfied I may be order more. I am not sure which I will like Slopetame2/Gravelpave2 or Tufftrack®Grassroad Pavers. they are both interesting

[Greenskeeper]

Wow, I had been trying to come up with a solution for a few of our tees that are in damp areas.Thanks for the info, .... these look really nice, Pricey but logical!!!

[DannyM]

We just put one in at my home course Crooked Creek Park in Chapin on our alternate holes. We put it in an area that was dirt that had worn down and start retaining water. We put the mat down, made it just slightly elevated than the surrounding ground, and filled with crushed gravel/sand mix to allow drainage, but still give grip. I've only played on it once so far, but the feedback/reaction has all been positive. We have a couple of spots on our additional holes that have some drainage issues, so we are testing the waters with the first tee pad, then may add the others in at later stages. One thing I do like about this concept is you can add as needed. Get money together;buy one set it in, and so on.

[chainmonkey]

We just put one in at my home course Crooked Creek Park in Chapin on our alternate holes. We put it in an area that was dirt that had worn down and start retaining water. We put the mat down, made it just slightly elevated than the surrounding ground, and filled with crushed gravel/sand mix to allow drainage, but still give grip. I've only played on it once so far, but the feedback/reaction has all been positive. We have a couple of spots on our additional holes that have some drainage issues, so we are testing the waters with the first tee pad, then may add the others in at later stages. One thing I do like about this concept is you can add as needed. Get money together;buy one set it in, and so on.

Got any pictures, you know before and after

[gregorvn]

Get money together;buy one set it in, and so on.

I haven't been able to find anything online about the price of this teepad material. How much did you spend for one tee?

[chainmonkey]

i talked with someone at Innova and they said that the plastic part of the tee was ~7.00 a section and that it would take 18 sections to make a tee 4.5 feet by 12 that is if you were buyng them one tee at a time it you were buying enough for numerous tees the per panel price could be less and if you were getting tees for a whole course they may even put you in contact with the manufacturer and you could order directly from them.

[MrFixIt]

We just recently bought some of these for Herman C. Michael Park in Watkinsville, GA.
As soon as we can get some of them down, I'll post pics!