Island greens

[bwiese]

I was watching a dg video of a course across the big lake, maybe finland, not sure, but one of the hole was 60 meters long and lined with trees on both sides(still an open shot). The pin was surrounded by railroad ties making it an island green. If you dont land in the ties you are ob and you take your next shot from the drop zone.

Here is the question. Does forced landing zone/fake island make a cool hole at a public course? Is this too much of a gimmick, or a pretty sweet way to force accuracy? If you do like it what is the best ratio between distance and landing area? If you are going to have drop zone, how far from the green should it be?

I personally liked it and was surprised that 2 of the 4 pros were throwing from the drop zone. I am just not sure if it would have the same appeal at a public course.

[moose-mdg]

luther britt in lumberton NC hole #17 is a island green ....public course that i think 12 holes water is in play...fun stuff

[bwiese]

What if there is no water? is it still cool to have an island green with no risk to lose a disc, only to lose strokes?

[moose-mdg]

i think that would be kinda weird IMO....

[mashnut]

I like it, and at a public course it's really easy for casuals to just ignore the island if they don't want to play that way. I think it's easy to overuse stuff like that and make the course gimmicky, but using something like that to make a short, straightforward hole a little tougher and more interesting is fun imo.

[roadtripstuff]

There is one here at The Player's Course at Alum Creek. Hole 16 starts in the woods, tight tunnel shot, and the basket is in a grassy circle surrounded by a road. I could really go either way, but I feel as long as you don't land on the road you should be In-bounds. The hole is played where anything past the woods that is not inside the circle is OB. I just think that in a public park most people will probably play it how the feel like it anyway so it really only matters in a tournament.

[bwiese]

do most people lay up in the woods for that one?

[Cgkdisc]

Helped with the redesign of that hole and unfortunately there wasn't time to test it properly before Am Worlds. The wooded gap was too tight for blue skill level and too many OB penalties were taken. If the gap has been widened since then, it's probably a pretty fun hole if players know they have to reach the deadend park road circling the island to be IB. We included the road in addition to the island as inbounds because the island is too small by itself for a fair inbounds landing area.

[bwiese]

so you want to land in the road?

[DavidSauls]

Island greens can be cool and fun, if designed well. One issue is where the drop zone is---it needs to be an interesting shot, since you'll likely be throwing it a lot.

There are several around here, on both public and private courses.

[kevinmzane]

One of the pin placements for hole 2 at prairie center park in Olathe, KS is set in the middle of a cul-de-sac. Its no more gimmicky than any other risk/reward hole and it's a lot of fun. You can lay it up fairly easily, or during casual rounds it's fun to try and skip it off the road at the basket.

[Cgkdisc]

so you want to land in the road?
You want to land on the grassy island green but the asphalt road around it was also IB for Worlds. Everything beyond the circular road was OB. Here's a winter photo from the tee. You can see the tree slightly tilted to the right that is the left side of the opening which is too small to hit consistently for blue level players: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/media.php?id=3690&mode=media&view=&hole=&page=2#

[ZBoazMobster]

Greenbriar has one of these 'Island Greens'.
I think it's kinda neat, the ladies I played with didn't like it.

[Thumber]

we have a small park we use quite a bit in the summer that is fairly easy. We use flags and string to create Island greens which adds quite a bit of difficulty in tournys/ I find them fun.

[DiscChucker]

#18 at Hornets Nest on the Charlotte's Web layout is an island green. It's a lot fun. It's definitely one of those holes where you want to unload your bag. From tee to basket it's about 220'. I'm going to guess that the green is about 50' feet in diameter and it's completely surrounded by a road. The tee sign states a stroke and distance rule for the first and second missed throws. So, if you fail to land on the island on two throw attempts, you have to throw from a drop zone that's located about 15' from the basket. Sounds easy enough right? Well there's a tree with a split trunk between the basket and the drop zone. You can choose to either putt through the narrow gap of the split trunk or you can opt for the more difficult hyzer putt around the right side of the right trunk. Keep in mind, at this point your putting for a 5. With that in mind, it certainly adds some pressure to sink the putt.

I just noticed that there are no pictures of this hole.:( Next time I go out to Hornets Nest I'll take the camera and snap off some pictures from the tee as well as from the drop zone.

[rshrevo]

We have a hole on a peninsula that is located in a public park. There is a image of it under the media page. The course is Riverside Park, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Don't remember ever seeing any drop zone for any disc landing in the water though. The hole is Hole #15 @ Riverside Park, Grand Rapids, Michigan. the picture on the course page is taken from the 14th fairway. The hole is narrow and pretty straight now. they used to only put it out there occasionally but due to a playground that was installed they moved it out there permanently. The only problem is during heavy rains the hole floods and usually stands surrounded by water. I like the hole personally although i usually play it conservative and will more then likely bogey the hole just to keep my disc from going into the water. There are a lot of other holes on the course where i could get my one shot back for the bogey i may take there.

[surgeflx87]

I would love to see this added on some of the shorter easier holes around here.

[AdamH]

If the lay of the land sets it up for a natural island green then I generally like it. If a completely artificial boundary is set up to make it an island, that seems gimmicky and I usually don't care for it. But that's just my opinion.

[scarpfish]

I actually like fake islands better than the real thing (although I've only personally encountered the real thing once). If you miss, you can still get your disc back.

[bwiese]

[QUOTE=DiscChucker;689480]#18 at Hornets Nest on the Charlotte's Web layout is an island green. It's a lot fun. It's definitely one of those holes where you want to unload your bag. From tee to basket it's about 220'. I'm going to guess that the green is about 50' feet in diameter and it's completely surrounded by a road. The tee sign states a stroke and distance rule for the first and second missed throws. So, if you fail to land on the island on two throw attempts, you have to throw from a drop zone that's located about 15' from the basket. Sounds easy enough right? Well there's a tree with a split trunk between the basket and the drop zone. You can choose to either putt through the narrow gap of the split trunk or you can opt for the more difficult hyzer putt around the right side of the right trunk. Keep in mind, at this point your putting for a 5. With that in mind, it certainly adds some pressure to sink the putt.
QUOTE]

This says the ratio is 220 foot shot for a 50 foot landing area. Does any one have any oppinion on the size of this/ the ratio for distance to landing area?

[bazillion]

Here's hole 13 @ Whittier Narrows (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=629&p=741f92a1). The course page says it's 310 feet (doesn't seem that long to me), plays to an island green surrounded by parking lot, which is OB. You can skip off the OB and park your drive pretty easily, although hitting the pickup is not advised :D

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=575&pictureid=10973

This site (http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm) puts it at 253 feet, which is more realistic imo.

[bwiese]

Is this parking lot in use ever? I really like the design, but wouldnt want the risk of damaged property.

[bazillion]

Most people park at the other end of the lot, where the #1 tee is. Some folks park here though because there's a lot of shade.

It's actually not bad, not like #13 at La Mirada back, where you drive down a 10-foot-wide "bowling alley" fairway with a street on one side and a parking lot on the other.

[zenbot]

Rabbit Flats has a very interesting fake island hole.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3761/a7ffdc20.jpg

When playing to the yellow basket the rocks form an island. Playing to the blue or red basket and that island becomes a lake.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3761/5bfb1667.jpg


Here's a pic of me playing it just because.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3761/044f562d.jpg

[yenhe2002]

I like that Island green hole at Alum Creek...#16. Yes, it's narrow...but it's a fun hole.

[yenhe2002]

Here's hole 13 @ Whittier Narrows (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=629&p=741f92a1). The course page says it's 310 feet (doesn't seem that long to me), plays to an island green surrounded by parking lot, which is OB. You can skip off the OB and park your drive pretty easily, although hitting the pickup is not advised :D

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=575&pictureid=10973

This site (http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm) puts it at 253 feet, which is more realistic imo.

I like the hole...but I wouldn't want to shoot across a parking lot, cars or not. Maybe Alum Creek's 16 is the same b/c of the circle road around the "island" green...but even so. Pavement hurts discs. :P

[EduCatOR]

This is a pretty cool island green hole.

http://www.discgolfvids.com/videos/67/signature-hole-@-begg-park

I dig it.

[jerrod]

Rabbit Flats has a very interesting fake island hole.


Looks cool there when it's green.

[bwiese]

Does idlewild have these kind of greens? I see some areas with posts in the ground surounding the pins. Is this for asthetics or for function?

I really like the different pics/ vids people posted. hopefully I can find the original video and put it up.

[elmattarino]

Here's one on a private course somewhere in the USA... I couldn't find the actual picture of it but it's a shame the course isn't public. Still trying to get my grandfather that knows the guy to see if he'll let me play it.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=344&pictureid=10982

[harr0140]

Hole #17 at The Lodge Island Course is an island. I think the long tee is about 185' an dslightly downhill but the green may not even be 30' short, long, or to the right. Most of the green island is to the left of the basker where the bridge enters the island. The biggest issue with Oklahoma is the wind, it can make this hole really brutal I am sure.

It is a great hole though.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=2489&p=03825838

[bwiese]

Bump this thread up. Any one else out there have any oppinion on island greens that are marked ob, not really surrounded by water?

[sidewinder22]

I say boy, I like it for shorter holes or other holes that would otherwise be boring.

[NothinButChing]

have couple on local course at Creekside when baskets are at that location I like the challenge

[the camera guy]

Hole #17 at The Lodge Island Course is an island. I think the long tee is about 185' an dslightly downhill but the green may not even be 30' short, long, or to the right. Most of the green island is to the left of the basker where the bridge enters the island. The biggest issue with Oklahoma is the wind, it can make this hole really brutal I am sure.

It is a great hole though.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=2489&p=03825838
the wind can be brutal, during the green country open more than a few discs went in the water. but they always come back out, there are discs that have been fished out waiting on their owners. and the island has even been host to a wedding. anybody passing near pawhuska, ok be sure to stop in and play both courses and if you do make sure to sign the autograph wall.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/garyE500/Green%20Country%20Open/wedding.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/garyE500/Green%20Country%20Open/wall.jpg

[Cgkdisc]

Is that Reverend Yeti presiding?

[harr0140]

the wind can be brutal, during the green country open more than a few discs went in the water. but they always come back out, there are discs that have been fished out waiting on their owners. and the island has even been host to a wedding. anybody passing near pawhuska, ok be sure to stop in and play both courses and if you do make sure to sign the autograph wall.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/garyE500/Green%20Country%20Open/wedding.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/garyE500/Green%20Country%20Open/wall.jpg

My signature from my January visit is right in the opening next to Ken Climo on the wall, that is probably the closest I will ever get to him!

[tallpaul]

Sure looks like Yeti. That island green is tiny. I managed to stay dry though. My playing partner was nearly 1,000 rated an refused to throw. :) I assume the signing wall was in the clubhouse; which we just got a quick tour of; as I did not sign. Cabin there is very nice; though, a bit unfinished at present.

[the camera guy]

Is that Reverend Yeti presiding?

you would be correct, and the couple is kevin and courtney

[Cgkdisc]

I knew it was K-Mac and Court but I forgot Yeti was doing the service.

[Danger]

Rabbit Flats has a very interesting fake island hole.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3761/a7ffdc20.jpg

When playing to the yellow basket the rocks form an island. Playing to the blue or red basket and that island becomes a lake.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3761/5bfb1667.jpg


Here's a pic of me playing it just because.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3761/044f562d.jpg

I also enjoy the fake island. As I recall it, there is no 'drop zone' on this hole, you just play it as it lies, +1 stroke.

[bwiese]

I like that hole. I wonder how they keep the grass/ weeds down inside the island?

Does any one know if idlewild has these or are their stumps around the green only for asthetics?

[Danger]

^As I understand it, Rabbit Flat has a very loyal locals group that takes care of the course.
I played it last year, and then again about a month ago, and in its first year there has been lots of change. The 'rock island' was just designated by markers the first time, and also LOTS of trees have been planted. This is easily the best 9ish 18ish 27ish hole course in the area.

[Apothecary]

hee hee...thousand jokes...:o

[RUSSELL]

[QUOTE=bwiese;690661]Does idlewild have these kind of greens? I see some areas with posts in the ground surounding the pins. Is this for asthetics or for function?


yes. idlewild has several "island" greens demarcated w/ stone/concrete cylinders i guess you'd call them. i suppose some are functional as far as erosion control from the creek is concerned.

[hognosesucker]

Sure looks like Yeti. That island green is tiny. I managed to stay dry though. My playing partner was nearly 1,000 rated an refused to throw. :) I assume the signing wall was in the clubhouse; which we just got a quick tour of; as I did not sign. Cabin there is very nice; though, a bit unfinished at present.

The lodge is the only true "island" hole I've played. Shawshank's last hole is a nice little fake island hole. Did you get to use the Lodge Mule (atv), paul?

[jongoff09]

I like the challenge of having to hit an island in a tournament. During casual rounds, the people I play with hardly ever play the islands.

These are the holes that are artificial islands on one of my local courses Burns-Blue (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=330&mode=ci).
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/330/b6e428b6.jpg

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/330/db2fcf5b.jpg

[tallpaul]

The lodge is the only true "island" hole I've played. Shawshank's last hole is a nice little fake island hole. Did you get to use the Lodge Mule (atv), paul?

Nope

[bwiese]

can you tell where these islands are all the time? ^ or are they only flagged for tourney?

[tallpaul]

There's a hole at hornets nest (may have only been temp; as they were moving some things around on the course); where you have to play across a parking lot to a bucket on a grass island (was #18 I think). Anyhow, me and another out of towner were playing; and there happened to be a bunch of guys in the orange jump suits. You know, jail guys; working off time and what not. So, as we're on the tee, there cat calling at us and such. My bud throws his right up on the island, and they're like, "oh, this guy is good." "Man, did you see that shot, bet he's a pro," and such. I throw a good shot that is sliding across the pavement; but hits the curb and ends up o.b.

"This guy, he ain't so good." Yeah, this guy sucks, but his buddy is good.":\

*Was interesting to have an inmates gallery to say the least.*

[zenbot]

^As I understand it, Rabbit Flat has a very loyal locals group that takes care of the course.
I played it last year, and then again about a month ago, and in its first year there has been lots of change. The 'rock island' was just designated by markers the first time, and also LOTS of trees have been planted. This is easily the best 9ish 18ish 27ish hole course in the area.
Absolutely true. There are new trees planted and new hills nearly every time I'm there. It's great to have the city on your side. They're looking for another location in 1000 Oaks for a larger course.

Fun fact: The rocks are set up as a compass rose.

[zenbot]

I also enjoy the fake island. As I recall it, there is no 'drop zone' on this hole, you just play it as it lies, +1 stroke.
The whole course has a "speed of play" rule for the two mandatories and the island/lake hole. No drop. Just play and add one to your score.

There are some defined OBs that are played by the perpendicular meter-in placement rule.

[bikinjack]

There's a hole at hornets nest (may have only been temp; as they were moving some things around on the course); where you have to play across a parking lot to a bucket on a grass island (was #18 I think). Anyhow, me and another out of towner were playing; and there happened to be a bunch of guys in the orange jump suits. You know, jail guys; working off time and what not. So, as we're on the tee, there cat calling at us and such. My bud throws his right up on the island, and they're like, "oh, this guy is good." "Man, did you see that shot, bet he's a pro," and such. I throw a good shot that is sliding across the pavement; but hits the curb and ends up o.b.

"This guy, he ain't so good." Yeah, this guy sucks, but his buddy is good.":\

*Was interesting to have an inmates gallery to say the least.*

That's hole 18 on the Web layout. Fun hole, and it's the de facto 19th hole on the original layout. You've gotta watch for cars, though.

[jongoff09]

can you tell where these islands are all the time? ^ or are they only flagged for tourney?

Hole 3 can be difficult to tell exactly where the lines would be, but you can tell generally where they would be. Hole 8 has two ditches that make up the island and the white line on the road so it is easy to see.

[magictenor1]

Greenbriar has one of these 'Island Greens'.
I think it's kinda neat, the ladies I played with didn't like it.That's the only one I know of and I thought it was great. as someone said it's not something you should overdo but every now and then it can help the variety of a course.

[optidiscic]

for a 300 foot hole in a grass field how large should the artificial island be?

[PanicKJ]

I was playing a round today at Renaissance park in Charlotte. My friend and I were tied on hole 18. 18 is a par 5 with an island green. I always play this hole safe and usually take par. My friend threw his first drive wide left and short. He had to take two more shots to get in position to throw over the ob, to the first landing area. After you make it to the first landing area you are then throwing to the island green. So I threw a buzzz the whole way and was dead center on the first landing area and he was a stroke behind me in a gully behind the first landing area. Then he threw a overhand shot and stuck it dead center on the island. I had an easy shot downhill to the island green. However I didn't throw my approach shot hard enough and it fell down and hit the step going up to the island green. Two more inches up and I would have parked it. Never the less I lost the game! Pretty crappy way to lose! Friggin OB got me three or four times in the same round.

So island greens are awesome as long as someone else is losing because of them!

[bettsjc]

As far as an opinion on the ration of greensize/holelength I think there should be no set ratio. If there was, you'd have a bunch of the same holes on different courses. DiscChucker brought up Hornet's Nest #18 Web Layout. Most people don't like island greens, and they do come in all shapes and sizes. I feel this hole 220' tee to pin, circular green ~50' wide is quite fair. And even if the green was a little bit smaller it would still work. Since the road around the green(a roundabout) is concrete, I believe it would be considered unnatural/artificial island green. Some are gonna feel this is bad course design, or a dumb idea, but its holes like these that will make you better.

IMO, when playing a round at Hornet's Nest playing Web Layout #18 is a must when walking from Nest Layout #18 back to #1. Its always a fun hole to empty the bag out. So let's think of it this way, an artificial island green may be forced and unnecessary, but with little/no risk of losing a disc in the water it should give you a bit more confidence that you can get it high and dry.

[bwiese]

This has been dead for a while, but thought I would repost the question and see if there is any one with another oppinion on this topic.

Do fake/man made islands intrest you, or is it lame? I saw a tourney on youtube where the pros were throwing ob on what looked like an open easy hole. I guess when you ony have 70 feet squar to land in it would be pretty tough.

[Matthew boals]

IMO, no water,not an Island hole. Everything else is a gimmick.

[DavidSauls]

Do you consider "out of bounds" a gimmick? Other than the really obvious---busy streets, or off the park property into someone's yard? Many holes use O.B. to enhance strategy, and island greens are an extension of this design.

Also, the discussion might separate "island greens" into 4 concepts: true islands surrounded by water, islands created by existing structures (parking lots, sidewalks, etc.), islands created for disc golf (landscape timbers, etc), or islands created temporarily (rope, etc.), usually for tournaments.

I don't have problems with any of these---if done well---but those who do, where do you draw the line?

[Sadjo]

At the Strange Disc Tour event in Greenville yesterday they made hole #2 an island hole. The tee was moved back 50 feet and the hole was flag on the front and sides...the creek behind the hole was the far border.

The off set that, all water did remain OB but if you were across the creek on any hole you were considered in bounds.

[vonDrehle]

I really like island holes. The ones I have played (Hornets Nest, Crooked Creek, Winthrop) are always fun. Crooked Creek in Chapin, SC especially because it really is an island surrounded by a little creek.

[DavidSauls]

At Stoney Hill we have a rarer island---one that's a landing zone. You tee off across a pond to an "island", defined by the pond and a road; if successful, you throw back over the island and further up the pond to the green, which is not an island.

[jsc430]

Maybe someone already mentioned this but, the way that some of the greens at idlewild are made to be "islands" adds a very unique touch. I've seen other island holes w/out water but this is different.

I hope the design catches on, i would like to see more man-made ob/obsticles on courses in general.

[billnchristy]

I bought a chicken ceasar salad on St. Thomas once...is that island greens?

[DavidSauls]

GGGrrrrroooooaaaaaaannnnnnnnn..................... ..

[Sunday Mike]

Sunday morning at The Ridge (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=917) we play #14 as an island. The basket is on top of a large hill. You don't land on the hill--OB!!!!!

[billnchristy]

GGGrrrrroooooaaaaaaannnnnnnnn..................... ..

:p

I'll be here all week.

[BennettUA]

Sadjo is right -- the island green for #2 at Timmons(thanks to Strange Disc Sports!) was fanstastic. I've aced #2 twice, but with the lengthened hole AND the island green and drop zone added for the tourney, this hole cost me 4 strokes easy! LOVED IT!

[Matthew boals]

[QUOTE=DavidSauls;728769]Do you consider "out of bounds" a gimmick? Other than the really obvious---busy streets, or off the park property into someone's yard?

Yes,I do. If a course needs rope for marking out of bounds it's bad course design, IMO.

[RussMB]

I've seen this done a couple of ways, and I really like the concept. Personally, I think that it adds to the strategy. I've played a real short hole, where everything was OB except the island. I also liked the way the island holes were done at Idlewild. There is an OB rock bed around the putting areas and it's roughly 10 feet wide. ...maybe less. I welcome them! :)

[DavidSauls]

[QUOTE=DavidSauls;728769]Do you consider "out of bounds" a gimmick? Other than the really obvious---busy streets, or off the park property into someone's yard?

Yes,I do. If a course needs rope for marking out of bounds it's bad course design, IMO.

Thanks, but that's not what I meant. If there's an existing feature that doesn't HAVE to be O.B.---a small creek, a little-used service road, a sidewalk, etc.---oftentimes the designer incorporates it in his design as O.B. to make the hole more challenging.

Do you consider this gimmicky?

Or just when O.B. features are constructed, permanently or temporarily, as part of the course construction?

[simpletwist]

I love the challenge of the island green. Coming from a ball golf background I've played several courses with island greens. Although most were not true islands. Here at home Joseph Davis SP's number 12 is an island green much like the one Bazillion showed a picture of. This green is in a part of the park where few people drive or park so most times car traffic is not a problem. The island is filled with a hand full of mature Austrian Pines. At 300ft from the white tees its a great hole.

[billnchristy]

Rose lane/ Stephen's county DGC in Toccoa has an awesome island green hole that is used for a motherlode CTP during tournies:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/1872/6e281517.jpg?rand=3305

[bwiese]

I like the use of the grass in parking lots, but wonder how safe or how often do cars come into play in a hole like this?

[billnchristy]

The one tourney we played was pouring the whole time so nobody in their right mind was coming into the park so I can't really answer.

[Matthew boals]

[QUOTE=Matthew boals;731220]

Thanks, but that's not what I meant. If there's an existing feature that doesn't HAVE to be O.B.---a small creek, a little-used service road, a sidewalk, etc.---oftentimes the designer incorporates it in his design as O.B. to make the hole more challenging.

Do you consider this gimmicky?

Or just when O.B. features are constructed, permanently or temporarily, as part of the course construction?

It does make it more of a challenge. But,IMO it's a little gimmick, if it's man-made...parking lot,sidewalk,jogging path, service road the course was designed wrong and I think that makes it a gimmick. If it's a small creek than that's OB to me. But Hell I'm a VERY Casual player,I've played one tourney in 16 years,

[Matthew boals]

Rose lane/ Stephen's county DGC in Toccoa has an awesome island green hole that is used for a motherlode CTP during tournies:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/1872/6e281517.jpg?rand=3305

IMO Piss poor design! Cars/people around or not. Hit the pavement and disc has road burn!?

[DavidSauls]

[QUOTE=DavidSauls;731966]

It does make it more of a challenge. But,IMO it's a little gimmick, if it's man-made...parking lot,sidewalk,jogging path, service road the course was designed wrong and I think that makes it a gimmick. If it's a small creek than that's OB to me. But Hell I'm a VERY Casual player,I've played one tourney in 16 years,

It's just a different perspective, and preference, and just as valid.

Myself, I love O.B. where it enhances the challenge. At one time I liked "existing feature" O.B. but not ropes and stakes and whatnot, which I considered "artificial" and "gimmicky". Eventually I played a course where ropes were done well, and became a convert.

So it's a small step from loving O.B. to loving island holes, with or without water.

[Dave242]

Here is a cool one at Fox River Park (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3889&mode=ci) in southern WI:

You throw to this (it is an unused turnaround on an old/unused park road):
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3889/85fd8e81.jpg

From here (yes, it is blind - just over the hill and curving to the right):
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3889/e148a3bb.jpg

[jkdisc]

just played Ace Run Ranch in Suffolk VA, hole #1 600 ft to an island surrounded by a moat

[bwiese]

IMO Piss poor design! Cars/people around or not. Hit the pavement and disc has road burn!?

I think that is what gives it some of the appeal. If you turn all the pavement into grass that is a very easy boring hole. Leave the pavement you are making sure you have a perfect shot so you sont mess up a disc/ add strokes to your score. Same concept at water with out losing your disc.

[Dave242]

IMO Piss poor design! Cars/people around or not. Hit the pavement and disc has road burn!?

Solution - do not hit the pavement! :clap: j/k

But, I am guessing you have not played on courses with rocks all over the course. Are all of those courses where your discs might get scraped on a rock piss poor course and/or hole design?

[Kwick]

Solution - do not hit the pavement! :clap: j/k

But, I am guessing you have not played on courses with rocks all over the course. Are all of those courses where your discs might get scraped on a rock piss poor course and/or hole design?

what about courses with trees that tear apart my plastic. i throw my discs on football fields or on my wall, too many poorly designed courses out there.


distance on that hole = 281 and downhill. seems tough to hit that tight gap blindly. do most people lay up?

[jhgonzo]

Sorry for the super-small image, but it's the only known photo I can think of!

http://www.discoverwisc.com/manitowoc/images/hole12a.jpg

This is a temporary hole (#12A) set up every year at Silver Creek (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=321) for the Manitowalk in the Park tournament. The inset on the photo shows the island, which is in a keyhole-shaped parking lot, the island itself maybe 12' wide (looking at it from the tee) and maybe 20' long. The island is also circumferentially dotted with various-sized rocks, but even getting to the island can be difficult. You tee off downhill, and while you want to keep your shot low, there are wooden posts along the border of the grass BEFORE the O.B. parking lot and plenty of trees to knock you down (but hopefully knock you down early enough that you don't wind up O.B. playing too ballsy). There's a drop zone off to the right, a pretty tricky shot from about 50' that has you looking at the island from a different angle (it's now 20' and 12' long, so pitching it up to the island with precise power is crucial, as an overshot will land you O.B., and not enough carries the risk of hitting one of the surrounding boulders). I've seen snowmen taken on this hole, but a lot more 5s and 6s than anything. Every year I play this tourney, I head to this temp hole and practice as long as I can!

[DavidSauls]

Not sure how this falls in the true/false island.....lots of water, but the back side is defined by road:
http://www.saulsinsurance.com/stoneyhill/Photos/Hole%2016%20Tee%20View%20(14).jpg
295' to basket, about 250' to shore going straight at basket, less if you aim right.

[Sadjo]

Rose lane/ Stephen's county DGC in Toccoa has an awesome island green hole that is used for a motherlode CTP during tournies:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/1872/6e281517.jpg?rand=3305

This course has 24 holes. Most tourneys only play holes 1-18 and this is the after tournament CTP while scores are being calculated at this course.

I've played the course dozens of times (my HO is located a mile or so from there) and I don't think I've ever played weekdays or weekends when cars have been parked in this area. My guess is during little league it could become a problem.

[bwiese]

Not sure how this falls in the true/false island.....lots of water, but the back side is defined by road:
http://www.saulsinsurance.com/stoneyhill/Photos/Hole%2016%20Tee%20View%20(14).jpg
295' to basket, about 250' to shore going straight at basket, less if you aim right.

I love this hole. Is every thing beyond the road ob too?

[DavidSauls]

I love this hole. Is every thing beyond the road ob too?

Yes. It plays as an island hole. There's an Intermediate tee---the only hole on this course with dual tees---that's about 50' shorter, and serves as a drop zone if you don't hit the green.

In another layout, this green is a landing zone on the "hopscotch" hole; you have to land on this island, then throw further up and across the pond on the next shot.

The excitement level increases exponentially on windy days.

[snappyfingers]

Here's hole 13 @ Whittier Narrows (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/view_image.php?id=629&p=741f92a1). The course page says it's 310 feet (doesn't seem that long to me), plays to an island green surrounded by parking lot, which is OB. You can skip off the OB and park your drive pretty easily, although hitting the pickup is not advised :D

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=575&pictureid=10973

This site (http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm) puts it at 253 feet, which is more realistic imo.

One of my favorite holes in SoCal!

[billnchristy]

IMO Piss poor design! Cars/people around or not. Hit the pavement and disc has road burn!?

Christy parked it both times during the tournament she played.

Cowboy up! :p

Sadjo is right except during the stephens county pro-am last year it was a hole because they deleted a back-up hole on the course (8 I believe)...but yes, usually it is a bonus hole for fun.

[Matthew boals]

I think that is what gives it some of the appeal. If you turn all the pavement into grass that is a very easy boring hole. Leave the pavement you are making sure you have a perfect shot so you sont mess up a disc/ add strokes to your score. Same concept at water with out losing your disc.
It does give it some appeal. But,again,IMO it's still a gimmick. At least is a "fun" add on hole during tourney. I wouldn't play it during a rec round. I'm cheap that way. Wouldn't want to take a chance on screwing up my disc.

[Matthew boals]

what about courses with trees that tear apart my plastic. i throw my discs on football fields or on my wall, too many poorly designed courses out there.


distance on that hole = 281 and downhill. seems tough to hit that tight gap blindly. do most people lay up?

A course should have trees,water and rocks. Not concrete,except tees,and pavement.

[Matthew boals]

Christy parked it both times during the tournament she played.

Cowboy up! :p

Sadjo is right except during the stephens county pro-am last year it was a hole because they deleted a back-up hole on the course (8 I believe)...but yes, usually it is a bonus hole for fun.

Sounds like she "Cowgirled up'ed"! More than likely will kick my butt.

[billnchristy]

It's honestly not hard to hit, most people that end up ob hyzer in hard and roll onto the road so no damage done.

[DavidSauls]

I'd think that, if the sign's right at 196', discs wouldn't be traveling that hard when they hit the pavement, and you wouldn't have much damage.

[bwiese]

Here is the hole that inspired the thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VbB24loV94&feature=related

It is hole #2 at the scandinavian open. If you want to skip right to it, it is Min 5:36.

Says it is 226 ft to the island, and the drop zone is 108ft away. If any one is good at imbeading the video have at it.

[bwiese]

When I saw it before the pros missed and had to take the shot from the drop, must be an earlier round. It doesnt look that hard, but that is why they are pros (making it look easy.)

[ZBoazMobster]

The CTP I won yesterday was an island hole. Was the only dry disc on my card, lol. Won a CryZ Challenger with my FLX Drone.

[snappyfingers]

Here is the hole that inspired the thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VbB24loV94&feature=related

It is hole #2 at the scandinavian open. If you want to skip right to it, it is Min 5:36.

Says it is 226 ft to the island, and the drop zone is 108ft away. If any one is good at imbeading the video have at it.

6VbB24loV94&feature=related

[optidiscic]

for the scandinavian open....a concept I truly think is pretty cool.....how large is the landing zone (dimensions anyone think they know...... how big is that island?)

[bwiese]

The landing zone dose not look that much bigger than a ten meter circle. Yes I know it is square:thmbup:

[Royal Hill]

Take a quick look also at his Stockholm open footage from the Jarva course. One of the holes also has the island concept built into the course. Even more subtle with a landscape edging. The Island is not uniform, with a wider "friendlier" side and a more constricted area - which is of course is where the pin is located. You might not notice it if not for realizing that Feldberg, Nikko, and others were re-teeing in the footage - and sometimes multiple times at that.

[skippy0420]

That is what I thought of when I read the post title. One of my favorites at the park when it's in that position. Pretty tough 2.....


Here is a cool one at Fox River Park (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3889&mode=ci) in southern WI:

You throw to this (it is an unused turnaround on an old/unused park road):
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3889/85fd8e81.jpg

From here (yes, it is blind - just over the hill and curving to the right):
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3889/e148a3bb.jpg

[jenb]

There was an island temp hole at a recent tournament I played and I didn't care for it, because it was too far for people on my card to reach. Then the drop box placement made par impossible, so it was pretty much an automatic four for anyone who couldn't drive that far.

I know some adv am ladies who would be stuck with a 4 everytime on that hole, when a pro rated 40-80 points higher would birdie it. Imagine if every hole on the course were like that. Those shorter driving ladies would have ratings far below what they've earned via long approach skills and sharp putting.

I think it would have been allright if there were a layup zone in range that we could hit before trying to go for the island green, and at least give us a chance at a layup for par. What do you guys think about having layup zones with long island holes? Is that too much to expect?

[Cgkdisc]

An inbounds lay-up zone would have been fine. Otherwise, there should either have been a shorter tee for certain divisions or use the drop zone as their tee.

[t i m]

If you're just trying to make a grassy hole more interesting, there are a lot of ways to do it. One that I think would work well is to rope/flag/paint a fairway that narrows down to almost nothing as it gets closer to the basket then opens up wide -- think of an old-timey keyhole shape.

That is very similar to playing an island green -- the same risk/reward factor if you go for it, but allows weaker-arm players to take safety shots if they need to. Still rewards accuracy, but scoring differential shouldn't change much for pros.

[t i m]

Another consideration on the "fairness" of island greens is what the actual terrain is like. I've seen an island green before (can't remember where -- it was a long time ago) that was essentially a little hillock and anything that didn't land perfectly rolled down the hill and OB. That's just an unfair island, IMHO, since it relies as much on luck as on skill.

On the other hand, an island green that was a slight depression or that had soft/sandy soil so that discs seldom rolled/skipped could be fairly small and still be "fair," IMHO.

Assuming a perfectly round Island, I'd say it's diameter should be ~20-25% of the distance of the hole.

On a 100' hole, a 20'-25' wide island seems fair. On a 200' hole, a 40'-50' wide island, on a 300' hole, a 60'-75' wide island. Of course, those sizes are ballparks based on a relatively open shot. The actual terrain should determine the size of the island green. Field holes just aren't as interesting without some element of risk/reward.

The problem of a simple island green (everything OB except the green and the teebox, no fairway) is that there is very little risk/reward equation. There is no way to play a hole like that "safe" -- everyone's best strategy, no matter what their skill level, is to try to land next to the basket.

What makes a hole exciting -- and worthwhile -- is some risk/reward factor that allows players to strategize their approach. This is why the keyhole-shaped fairway/green works well -- perfect risk/reward option for all skill levels.

If you want a pure green hole, you should at least pick a shape that is not just round. An egg-shaped island that is wide in the front for a big, fat landing area, with the basket tucked near the skinny end, far away, allows a good risk/reward option since you have the option to throw short to the wide part, with little chance for a deuce, or deeper to the skinny part to park the hole. That's a way to make a pure island fair for different skill levels.

I can also picture a peanut shape that narrows near the basket, raising the risk/reward factor for trying to park it. It allows players of all different throwing-power to reach the island, and doesn't penalize overthrowing the basket like an egg-shaped island does, but it still forces a high degree of accuracy to park the hole.

Long tangent, but basically I think island holes are great if they encourage risk/reward strategy. If all an island hole is is a risky CTP with everyone -- and all levels of players -- trying to do the exact same thing, then I think it's one-dimensional and a weak design.

[bwiese]

key hole design sounds like it would be fun to play, but would be hard to implement on a permanent course. I think the egg/ oblong island would give you a fair landing zone and reward those who could park their shot on the skinny part of the green. There is a hole kind of like this I think at winthrop. It had a lay up area, and alot of the pros were throwing out there to try for the easy 3, It really cost the guy who missed the green after his layup.

[frisbeeguy]

At the USMasters this weekend the final hole is a small island with a slightly elevated pin. The island is about a 10m circle and the tee is 240' away. (affectionately named "tin cup")
While there have been several different versions of how many throws / with & without penalty strokes for missing the "green" - this weekend is two shots with penalty strokes then drop-zone which is a make-able 45 footer.
Like stated in a previous post... for this tourney another "island" landing area was created giving an option of just chipping 150' and then another <100' layup to the green.
The genius of this is it creates doubt in a players mind on weather to "go for it" or "lay up".
I took a 6. (it's only a 240' straight shot!)
Think I'll be laying up today!!!!!! A three sounds pretty good this morning.
Y'all go golfing today - ah-out.