I have a dream

[weaktit]

I want to propose a course but...........
1) Are seasonal courses realistic / appropriate? (ie: closed Oct.- Mar.)
The proposed location would be within 2 -3 miles of an existing, rural and highly regarded course which is somewhat under fire for its meer existance as well as ongoing erosion. I see this proposed course as a way to relieve pressure on the existing course as well as a way to reduce congestion on the other course during peak season. This proposed course is near a small community which would surely benefit greatly from the influx of players, but currently sees little, if any benefit from visitors of the already existing course.
2) Is the Army Corp Of Engineers (Oregon) an approachable group?
The proposed location, which is already an established park, is managed / owned by the ACOE and sees very little use. It has an established parking lot and a permanent bathroom.

I have done some research regarding course proposals and design but I'm clearly lacking knowledge about this process. At this time, I'm very passionate about disc golf and the establishment of new courses in an area that, in my opinion, is severely lacking. I'm a new member of the local club who seem to have other, albeit legitimate, focus. I've never played a tourney and I suspect I have minimal credibility when it comes to DG stuff in general.

As I writ, it is a dream and I just don't know where to begin.

[bazillion]

Seasonal courses do exist, mainly in areas where snow forces course closure in the winter and nearby snow-free venues exist. A good example of this is Wrightwood (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1884&mode=ci) and Yucaipa (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2043) - they shuttle the baskets up and down the mountain twice a year.

The idea of a "pressure-valve" course is good though - De La Veaga (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=35) has suffered ongoing erosion issues to the point where at least one really classic hole was pulled entirely. The problem I see, of course, is that if the course is that good to begin with, the "relief" course would have to be stellar in its own right to draw players.

My 2¢ - don't spend it all in one place :D

[Cgkdisc]

Robert Chard in Grants Pass, OR at: bchard at charter.net and Brad Huggins in Salem, OR at: bdhuggins at gmail.com are members of the Disc Golf Course Designers group. Contact either of them for some help. Yes, there are several courses on ACOE properties including the courses at PDGA HQ in Georgia, near Des Moines and in New England for some examples.

[weaktit]

I haven't been able to fully walk the proposed course. I tried yesterday but recent, heavy rains made it inaccessible, hence the reason for winter closure I suspect. I think the proposed course could be better than the existing course (go figure;)). The existing course is Dexter (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=439)in Oregon.
Here is a rough representation of the proposed park. The right side boundary of the park is in question and may be much closer to the Y in the nearby roads, IDK. The right side portion contains most of the elevation change so I'm hoping the park would / could extend closer to the substation not visible on the far right - outside of my red line.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h308/Cropshop/OrchardPark.jpg

[weaktit]

Robert Chard in Grants Pass, OR at: bchard at charter.net and Brad Huggins in Salem, OR at: bdhuggins at gmail.com are members of the Disc Golf Course Designers group. Contact either of them for some help. Yes, there are several courses on ACOE properties including the courses at PDGA HQ in Georgia, near Des Moines and in New England for some examples.

Thanks.
I saw their names from some of your other references to the DGCD.
Should I start there or should my local club be the first step?

[Cgkdisc]

I would start with either of those guys so you can plan your approach to the ACOE to see about feasibility first. There's an outside chance someone in your club may have connections with the ACOE so I wouldn't overlook that possibility at some point.

[Sadjo]

I think starting with those that Chuck suggests is the best place to start...along with the local club. What I've learned over the years is that a lot of local players (players in general) want more courses but are lacking the knowledge of how to get things done.

The first course I ever proposed was back in '92 and Chuck helped me along the way (do you remember Chuck?) with that proposal and speaking in front of a board. We didn't get it done that time but a course is now in the very same park...I like to think I got the ball rolling, with Chuck's help, of course.

Anyway...call or email. No matter what you are told by the ACOE, keep trying. A course I first proposed in 2007 was turned down three times before selling in 2009. Now, a year and a half later we're finally getting baskets in the ground. It takes time.

Good luck.

[mashnut]

I've played a few courses on ACOE managed land, so they very well might be open to it.

[weaktit]

Thanks All.
I've sent an email to Brad Huggins and also discovered he is a personal friend with one of the members of our local club, whom I will contact next.

[Cgkdisc]

The first course I ever proposed was back in '92 and Chuck helped me along the way (do you remember Chuck?) with that proposal and speaking in front of a board. We didn't get it done that time but a course is now in the very same park...I like to think I got the ball rolling, with Chuck's help, of course.
I think that was the original Plymouth Creek wasn't it? There were two designs before the current one with "real" baskets. We started with posts. That eventually was revamped when someone put in homemade wash basin baskets. Then, their new domed tennis facility shifted the course layout into the woods where we originally wanted to go anyway to get 18 holes.

[Sadjo]

Yes it was Plymouth Creek. Last time I played there I thought it was 12 holes? That was the first proposal I was involved with. The first course design was helping you and Dave Myers with the layout at Basset Creek in Crystal.

It was that foundation...the MFA and the proposal for Plymouth Creek (and being in sales) that gave me the confidence to get courses sold and installed now.

[Martin Dewgarita]

Yes it was Plymouth Creek. Last time I played there I thought it was 12 holes?

Love this course, thanks for getting it goin :). And cgk, if you're hiding 6 more holes out there, I want to know where they are. One of my "home" courses, hole 8 will always be one of my favorites, my biggest nemesis hole.

[Cgkdisc]

Where the course is now in the woods, was not available to us to make an 18-hole course when we developed the original 12-hole layout. Once the tennis dome went in, we got the woods but then lost the tennis area and still remained with 12 holes. Never had 18 permanent there.

[Sadjo]

Minnesota is littered with 12 hole courses...at least that's my recollection...Highland Park, Plymouth Creek, Basset Creek...

[Thumber]

First off, you will need to work with the local club. If they aren't on board you are DO to begin with. Second, will the ACOE allow rec activity on their federal lands (I honetly don't know)

I do know if a new member went around our existing club we would be annoyed. You don't know what the club has cooking in the background. Most successful courses involve partnership between landowner, club and visionary

[weaktit]

First off, you will need to work with the local club.
I do know if a new member went around our existing club we would be annoyed. You don't know what the club has cooking in the background. Most successful courses involve partnership between landowner, club and visionary

I appreciate this.
Why wouldn't my club let me know what they have 'cooking'?
I have received response from a local member.
I just want to propagate the local DG scene and I believe my club is one of my greatest assets. I don't care who gets the course installed, really.

[Thumber]

I appreciate this.
Why wouldn't my club let me know what they have 'cooking'?
I have received response from a local member.
I just want to propagate the local DG scene and I believe my club is one of my greatest assets. I don't care who gets the course installed, really.

clubs are made up of 10 guys who get everything done and a bunch who like to tell those guys what they should be doing. This leads to the core of the club not communicating sometimes. All I am saying is make sure you discus your ideas with the club before you set out. For all you know, they may already be in negotiations. If the club has an Exec...talk to them

[weaktit]

I must admit I haven't broached the subject with the pres. Though my last email to said pres. received no response. I do believe that my club is my most valuable asset but I don't believe that their approval is the 'be all, end all'. When I mentioned this park at the last meeting all I saw was ??????? except from the guest state park representative who had other things on his mind. Thus, I pursue.

[Thumber]

I must admit I haven't broached the subject with the pres. Though my last email to said pres. received no response. I do believe that my club is my most valuable asset but I don't believe that their approval is the 'be all, end all'. When I mentioned this park at the last meeting all I saw was ??????? except from the guest state park representative who had other things on his mind. Thus, I pursue.

we ll each situation is unique, but I can't see any landowner entertaining a proposal from an individual, without the endorsement and active involvement of the local club

I don't know your situation though. making a pitch for land for a course is a big undertaking.

[Sadjo]

I must admit I haven't broached the subject with the pres. Though my last email to said pres. received no response. I do believe that my club is my most valuable asset but I don't believe that their approval is the 'be all, end all'. When I mentioned this park at the last meeting all I saw was ??????? except from the guest state park representative who had other things on his mind. Thus, I pursue.

When I first moved to the Golden Corner of South Carolina, the local club had told me of their long term plans to add additional holes at the course. They were hope to go from the current 18 hole configuration to 27 holes. They had plans and all that.

My job was running the local radio station (I've since transfered to one in GA but still live in SC) and the mayor was a regular guest on my talk show. Every couple of weeks I started asking him about course expansion and brought it before the board several times before it finally got approval.

Anyway...some of the club members were upset when they heard we were given $6,000 to purchase 18 additional baskets. They had been talking about it and most everyone was aware I was doing these presentations but once it finally went through, it was like they were mad they weren't part of the presentation.

we ll each situation is unique, but I can't see any landowner entertaining a proposal from an individual, without the endorsement and active involvement of the local club

I don't know your situation though. making a pitch for land for a course is a big undertaking.

If you get approval, I bet the club members will want to help with design and course construction. That's what happened here. In fact, once the baskets got delivered, I stepped completely out of the loop and the club is getting the course done...soon we'll have 36 holes.

[tallpaul]

^^^^There are often one or two persons who happen to speak with, and get to know the right, person/people. You could be that person. With that said, like Sadjo1 and others are pointing out; a relationship with the club is pretty important as well. When there's a split there, it usually leads to bad things.

[wolito]

I think in general the ACOE are approachable, but have their own little quirks about them because of the government aspect of things. That seems like a great piece of land there, a good mix of wooded and slightly open holes. Also looks like you got parking on the far left area. Best of luck to you.