signage: waste of time?

[optidiscic]

with vandalism, added cost, added eyesore to non DGers I am thinking signage is a complete waste of resources....I don't really wanna provide the local 15 yr old tagger a new canvas or the local nazi nature lover another reason to hate DG or the scavenger hunters another sign to hang in their bedroom......I am also of the mindset that the cost of a quality indestructible sign that comemorates a hole sponsor is almost as much as the hole being sponsored. :doh:

my advice print out a map and have maps available at a kiosk in paper or permt on the board :thmbup:

anyone agree with me...I know for some reason members on this sight are signage nazis I consider myself anti-sign am I alone?

[grodney]

I am firmly anti-elaborate tee sign. Hole # and distance -- that's it. Anything else is a waste of time and resources.

Players don't need anything more than that. Mind you, lots of players THINK they need more than that. But they are wrong.

[bazillion]

I like signs because (a) they give me a quick visual clue as to where the next tee is and (b) they provide a place for me to hang my bag if the ground is wet. Display design? Dunno - I haven't seen that many really stellar examples of good signage, but I suppose the information on a sign could be useful too.

My 2¢.

[optidiscic]

I like signs because (a) they give me a quick visual clue as to where the next tee is and (b) they provide a place for me to hang my bag if the ground is wet. Display design? Dunno - I haven't seen that many really stellar examples of good signage, but I suppose the information on a sign could be useful too.

My 2¢.

where do u hang your bag on non tee pad throws?

[Mando]

I wholeheartedly agree. More often than not, signage is an eyesore even to discgolfers unless they are brand new. I prefer the aesthetically cleaner look of no signs, but with small, inexpensive next tee arrows.
The interpretative nature trail dg signs at Owen HS are the only ones I've seen were worth the expense.

[bazillion]

where do u hang your bag on non tee pad throws?

off my dallywhacker :D

[drickanderson]

^^ poor Dally is always getting whacked ..

[DavidSauls]

I think signage is overrated in reviews---after the first time or two around a course, I hardly notice anything beyond the hole #.

There are sturdier alternatives. Earlewood Park has virtually graffiti-proof River City signs. No maps, just hole #, distance, par.

But, where they aren't vandalised, I still think nice signs are a nice touch.

Oddly, we had some nice hole-map signs prepared for Stoney Hill.....then my brother decided he liked the simple, rustic, base signs better.

[billnchristy]

I prefer them when playing a new course. I challenge you to play Steady Ed or Warner without referencing the signs or walking up the very hilly fairways to check out the hole. You are looking at adding at least an hour to your round the first time out.

BTW, one punk kid getting his butt thrown in a squad car should be all it takes for sign graffitti. I hate this "let's not give them something to ruin" attitude...NO, stop their asses and nip it in the bud. Easier said than done I know but why let aholes win?

[grodney]

I challenge you to play Steady Ed or Warner without referencing the signs or walking up the very hilly fairways to check out the hole.

I will play them, and the signs will not help me (much). Sure, I'll look at them, but I'm still going to throw where I think is right. Most of the time it won't be quite right. No big deal. That's what happens the first time around any course, if it's not all basket-visible 1-shot holes.

[Mando]

I prefer them when playing a new course. I challenge you to play Steady Ed or Warner without referencing the signs or walking up the very hilly fairways to check out the hole. You are looking at adding at least an hour to your round the first time out.
Having a guide when playing a new course is an even better option.

[silverbullet]

I prefer them when playing a new course. I challenge you to play Steady Ed or Warner without referencing the signs or walking up the very hilly fairways to check out the hole. You are looking at adding at least an hour to your round the first time out.

BTW, one punk kid getting his butt thrown in a squad car should be all it takes for sign graffitti. I hate this "let's not give them something to ruin" attitude...NO, stop their asses and nip it in the bud. Easier said than done I know but why let aholes win?

i agree :) but its way easier said then done. i would have to say the reason why i prefer signage is for when i travel. i have playd a few courses that are so d*** hard to navigate i gave up after taking 45 minutes to find the first 4 holes :/ but i love the map idea . it would be easy to snap a picture on my iphone and use it

[U_NICED_ME]

I understand Opti's point completely. Keeping the signs up on our course has been a CONSTANT struggle. I have 'dressed' down my signs completely and got rid of the plexiglass that used to cover them. Now, they're just a piece of vinyl screwed into the 4 x 4 with a laminated map spray glued on the top. This makes maintenance and upkeep much easier.

I do think they are good to have on courses b/c there are so many new players that visit. We also have scorecards available with a map at the kiosk...but those are hard to keep in stock, too.

[billnchristy]

I think it would be cool to just put the info into the tee.

[Rol6566]

I think it would be cool to just put the info into the tee.

Ive seen pics on here of somewhere where they did that. I think it was under the thread about having brick or pavers as a tee

[burntneuron]

^I think that's a good idea.

I'm of two minds, I like signs when I go play a new course and they add a certain finished look to a course, but after you know it, they become all but useless. Maps and scorecards are the best for learning a new course anyway, when I went to play Coyote Point at Lake Casitas, the nicely printed maps on the scorecards were the best I've come across for learning a new course, really nice touch. Not a fan of snapping cellphone pictures of maps at the entrance, they can be hard to read and make out the details, printed maps FTW.

[Rol6566]

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab286/Agent_Peebody/IMG00869-20101016-1413.jpg

[mashnut]

The problem with having the info permanently in the tees is that pin placements and hoe layouts can change and it's pretty tough to update the info.

One argument for at leastbasic tee signs is that it can be really difficult to find tees under the ice and snow, and some kind of post or marker makes huge difference.

[AdamH]

It just goes to show you that you can't make everyone happy so it's best just to make yourself happy.

At my local course we don't have a problem with vandalism or theft so I made these tee signs. I got them laminated and used an outdoor double sticky tape to attach them over the old, out dated plexiglas signs.

Additionally, the course description on here reads "Challenging, championship caliber course that has a nice balance of short technical holes and long bombs. It plays up and down some good sized hills with five par 4's and a monster par 5 that's over 1000ft long."

And I still got a less than pleasant comment:
Did not impress me. I gave up after losing a disc in someone's backyard. I got tired of having to look for the baskets hidden far down range.

So I'm not sure what this guy thought he was getting into, but I don't know how the information and tee sign could be any more more clear.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=721&pictureid=11861

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/4276/6c2b8856.jpg

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/4276/877f350e.jpg

[surgeflx87]

That tee at rogers lakewood is even better looking in person. But as far signs go, I do like the ones where time has really been put into them. But im not lookin at the sign to see what route to take or where the baskets at, im looking down the fairway. Even if its a really blind shot ive never played before, your not goin to be able to tell exactly where the pin is except by looking at it.The only thing I look at signs for is to see what the distance is.

[solomon.trenton]

i think if its a free flowing course and you cant see multiple baskets from each tee then sure, but if its not then you have to have signs of some kind

[U_NICED_ME]

That's cool.

The other thing that really bugs me, I just played somewhere, all new signs, and one was already missing. It seems like there's always at least one or two missing, busted up, tagged. Some courses just have moldy remnants of the plastic and the metal surround left. They NEVER seem to get replaced.

I keep replacing ours when they get faded from the sun or damaged in anyway. It really hasn't been a huge investment on my end.

Here's one of my signs as seen on the course.
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i413/sesmith222/zebhole2.jpg
It does stick out like a sore thumb now that I look at it. :\ I don't know. Maybe it will look better once the grass grows in...more golf course like.

[BradC]

I like signs for the first few times at a course, especially if the baskets are tough to locate. I also think top-notch signs make a course look more professional and legitimate.

However, I understand the issues involved and the requirements put in place by the borough.

I think for this course, a map on a welcome board and a place to download maps/scorecards is the way to go.

2 tees per hole makes for 18 signs and could make "next tee" markers confusing.

A simple map should be easy enough to follow the flow of the course.

It would be nice though for each tee pad to have a distance listed and hole #.

[AdamH]

That tee at rogers lakewood is even better looking in person.

Those are probably the coolest tee pads I've ever seen. I hope to hit that course up sometime on my way to Wisconsin.

[billnchristy]

How about a 19" touchscreen that has video walkthroughs, pictures and audio?

Nobody would mess with that, but they may hack it and have it loop porn.

[surgeflx87]

Those are probably the coolest tee pads I've ever seen. I hope to hit that course up sometime on my way to Wisconsin.

Its a great course. I think only one teepad is like that but it looks amazing. Pretty tough course imo. Definatly worth the trip.

[simpletwist]

Signs add class. It says this is a serious thing and we take our sport (or recreation seriously). Done well they are anything but an eyesore. And its nice to have a basic idea of distance, direction, OB, next tee, etc., especially when I'm travelling. I'd rather play two rounds than spend the same amount of time on one round because I was wandering around looking for the next tee or even the basket I'm throwing to. And with the ever lengthening of courses, it gets even harder.

With the exception of 1 course around these parts there is no significant vandalism problems.

I agree with B&C that a trip to the station in the back of a patrol car will do wonders to clean up the problem in all but the worst locations.

[vonDrehle]

I think good signs are very nice especially if it is a first time playing. However I think there is a limit. For instance I played Middle Creek (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=2821&page=1&mode=rev#29069) for the first time recently and they had the very nice Innova Platinum tee signs. From what I have found online for an 18 hole course these cost $3330. Now for a course that didn't have any benches or trashcans or anything else on the course that seems a little much to be spending strictly on signs when a homemade option would allow for better use of funds and in the long run a nicer course.

I do find that vandalism is a problem for some parks. For instance what I could consider my home course in Raleigh, Cedar Hills, has a few tee signs up but for the most part they are vandalized or just completely gone. Personally I would be willing to create tee signs for the course but who knows how long they would stay up.

[optidiscic]

I do have a defeatist attitude I acknowledge that but I've played 150+ courses and seen these instances more than once....trash cans get kicked over, signs benches etc get tagged or busted, benches in wooded areas become hangouts and party spots for non DGers, etc etc I am gonna err on the side of caution....Shawnee State Park..http://www.dgcoursereview.com/media.php?id=2788&mode=media# while not a great course had some interesting use of tee pads that used the tee pads.....I like that idea even if it looks like some kid drew penises on rubber mats. I don't think the entire pad has to be a tee sign but perhaps in a corner distance, general layout, and par can be stenciled and spray painted on.
I refuse to spend money on something that adds nothing but a nuisance and a headache and really isnt that neccesary...I will take my 1 disc rating Thank You very much

[yawpstang64]

I appreciate signs; a simple sketch of terrain can make a hole a lot easier to learn, and I'm usually too lazy to walk it. Its also nice to have an arrow from the basket to the next teepad. Other info really depends on what the course offers: if there are multiple pin placements, the sign better reflect that.
I feel the necessary info is Distance and Hole #, and anything else is extra - I remember one CA park that had giant signs but never a scrap of useful info (distances, pin placement, hazards); I wanted to scream... and take an axe to the signs.

No reason to invest in expensive signage if theres a high probability of it being vandalized - postpone it until the course becomes more popular and gets cleaned up a bit.

[CFH-mn]

i made signs for my local course- kaposia ssp mn, simple hole dist par! the back 9 disappeared or got tagged within a month so i made more... i have a alum coil break so i bend up any size i want. i wrap windows, fascia, door trim- garage door trim. the first batch were painted fancy, the replacements are very basic. Someone fallowed me lead and screwing golfballs under the signs as bag holders.

[slimshadyemb]

It's unfortunate that vandalism is a main concern with this. Disc golf is such a chill sport, and mostly played by chill people. But then there's the one idiot who thinks it's awesome to ruin someone's hard work for everybody. Very similar to how I feel about litterbugs, but I'm sure that's another thread entirely

Sometimes the signs can be a little overkill. After the first couple times on a course, you don't need the signs anymore. But I think they can be invaluable. More than 1 time I have nearly given up on a course because I was unable to find the next tee. The previous poster mentioned Kaposia. This course had a wonderful reputation around here. However when I went and played, I skapped about 5 holes because I ended up walking to the wrong tee. Seemed appropriate, but missed a large chunk of the course. This was made worse by the newly instated $5 fee for the course (which was protested several times by, you guessed it, vandalism).

I like the idea of including hole information right on the tee. In the corner of a concrete tee pad you could include the hole number, distance, or other pertinent information. As far as directions to the next tee, this info can be included on or near the basket. A local course uses arrows on the topper for each basket to lead you to the next tee. or arrows on trees, or colored tape to lead players down paths, or even minor landscaping i.e. rocks along the path

[captain jack]

The days of the galvanized giant DGA flyswatters are numbered, they just encourage too much abuse to be useful.
Unless your course is on private property, or its in a prestigious gated community, it will be subject to vandalism.
We have recently started pulling the last remaining old school DGA signs at at local course which is in a community of lower to middle class residents.
These signs have been uprooted by local individuals who come to the park solely to drink adult beverages, they then take the sign and bash on the local basket to the point it had to have a new top plate welded on it.

The problem is anybody not familiar with a local course really needs signage to navigate a course easily. Simple basic signage can provide valuable information to someone new to the course.

This is the future of disc golf course tee signs:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5058/5524718918_a7d9fd9946_m.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5212/5524718946_99768538cb_m.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5095/5524718938_95c99b4217_m.jpg

These are simple designs, with easily replaceable parts, but they provide valuable information that makes playing the course a much more pleasant experience.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/5524718956_7165dcf993_m.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5524718982_6c87b91b4b_m.jpg

[WorldsCoolestGuy]

Check out the signage at this course. It's implanted in the concrete.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=635
Some baskets have gotten stolen at this course but the signage stays fresh.:thmbup:

[Apothecary]

i dont see so good. good signage helps me map out the hole in my mind, something essential for courses i havent walked/played before.

i grew a big rubbery one the first time i saw signs with topo-maps on them.:thmbup:

[prerube]

i dont see so good. good signage helps me map out the hole in my mind, something essential for courses i havent walked/played before.

i grew a big rubbery one the first time i saw signs with topo-maps on them.:thmbup:

I was hoping you were going to take the Dave242 route and say signage is overrated so we could continue debating :)

[Apothecary]

signage is huge. i wouldnt rate a course highly without adequate signs.

if youre designing a course and dont like/think you need signs, understand that theyre really important to some people.

[roadtripstuff]

I could't disagree more with the OP. Tee signs are huge. First I think they give the course an overall better look. I think they give the sport more credibility by making courses look more professional. Other than aesthetics, the provide players, hell even non-players/other park go-ers, a lot of useful information. For players, length, par, and maps if you have blind shots. I can see where you think you won't need them after playing the course a time or two, but there are always people playing courses for the first time. For non-players they can show them what the sport is. They can see what players are aiming for, their goal, in some cases keep them from wandering onto fairways.

Another case, that I believe, requires tees signs, even if very basic, is when there are natural tee pads, or tee pads that are on walkways or paths. One example I can think of is Morningside Park (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1574) in Knoxville. Many of the tee pads are located on sidewalks and walking paths only marked by spray paint. They are really hard to see unless you are right on top of them and if they had tee signs that course would be improved tremendously.

Overall, again just my opinion, I just think tee signs make any course a lot easier to navigate, play and just more enjoyable.

[Apothecary]

proper signs (@ dexter):

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/439/fc2d11de.jpg

would be better if they were topo. still...clear as day and super accurate!:clap:

but...EACH SIGN HAS A BROOM!!!! how rad is that?!?:D

[deBebbler]

i grew a big rubbery one the first time i saw signs with topo-maps on them.:thmbup:

What we opted for our new course...

[Easy Tigur]

Signage plays a big part to me at a park. Mostly just the first few times I play, but its crucial then. And sometimes a topographical map will help me see lines that I haven't saw before. Take this course for example:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/213/10abe85a.jpg
Those tee signs look sharp. And my first few times playing that course, I relied heavily on them. I still use them quite often when I play now. And they look classy.

[Apothecary]

mmm...i wont need redtube or female company tonight...

thanks, beb!:D

[harr0140]

with vandalism, added cost, added eyesore to non DGers I am thinking signage is a complete waste of resources....I don't really wanna provide the local 15 yr old tagger a new canvas or the local nazi nature lover another reason to hate DG or the scavenger hunters another sign to hang in their bedroom......I am also of the mindset that the cost of a quality indestructible sign that comemorates a hole sponsor is almost as much as the hole being sponsored. :doh:

my advice print out a map and have maps available at a kiosk in paper or permt on the board :thmbup:

anyone agree with me...I know for some reason members on this sight are signage nazis I consider myself anti-sign am I alone?

Being a traveling disc golfer I don't like the idea of not having signs. I also feel that good nice looking signs legitimize the sport because it makes disc golf look more professional. The problem is the vandalism, theft, taggins, etc then take it right back down. I have never seen a more flagrant problem with signs being written on, then vandalized, then ripped apart, and some even stolen than the place we have leagues Valley View Park in New Berlin. We raised enouh money from league that the director wanted to put up signs, so he went through the work to get a sign that would be nice looking but also as indestructable as possible. They literally lasted a few weeks before the first instance, and now two years later there are only 2 undamaged tagged or vandalized signs and the reason . . . they are mostly invisible. They arent on a pole to the side of the basket, they are set off to the side on another sign .

I want to see signs but for the time being a paper map with distances and pars and stuff would be acceptable. I cannot see that costing too much over the length of the season but the sames punks might use it as toilet paper!

[tick]

Personally, I like a good map. But I've found that there are some people who just don't get it when they look at a map. Those folks need something different - like a sign maybe.
Also, maps on a central board really do not do it for me. My memory rarely keeps that info beyond the first tee. Printed out maps run out, are vandalized, cost money to replenish constantly, or are left behind when heading out. I have maps available for my course which I do not carry (I "know" the course), and I regularly get asked "How long is this hole?", and once again my memory does not have that info even tho it is my own course!
But I often see signs that are ugly, plain useless, or placed badly. I agree that hole # and distance are the critical bits of info, however,I have often thrown to the wrong basket on a new course, or just guessed wrong at where the basket is located. If courses were like Ed's original courses where the basket is virtually always visible from the tee, that wouldn't happen, but on my own course, once the leaves are out, 7 of 18 baskets cannot be seen from the tee. I think this is fairly typical.
As others have mentioned, "next tee" signs are one of the most important bits of signage, but this can also be confusing if there are multiple tees on holes.
I don't know the answers, but although I prefer a good map, I do like good tee signs!

[Sadjo]

Yesterday afternoon, a few of us worked on adding second tees to a course we designed. It's on private property and has no tee signs. We had a hard time finding on of the tees because you can't see them.

The course, during the spring, summer and fall, keeps the grass long except on the fairway so it is easy to follow. After the grass was cut beginning of winter, there's no line to follow. Signs would help.

[Lewis]

Those signs at East Roswell Park (shown above by Naldoxcore) are my absolute favorites. While I don't think the map on the sign is the most important information by any stretch, if you're going to include one it should at least be accurate. When the person who draws the maps doesn't pay attention to where the trees actually are -- especially the important trees -- the map can do more harm than good. Really, in my opinion, the hole number and distance from tees is all the information a tee sign needs. Anything more is icing on the cake.