Uncertain future for Terrace Creek (WA)

[JConnell]

There is an effort underway to ban disc golf from Terrace Creek Park (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=33) in Mountlake Terrace, WA. Terrace Creek is one of the only courses in the Seattle metropolitan area and it would be absolutely devastating to the local DG community if we lost this course.

I talked to Lowell Sheilds (who most local players should know as the president of the Seattle Disc Golf Players Association and the owner of Fantasy Flights) about this on Saturday afternoon. He asked me to write to the local newspaper and get the word out to as many DG'ers as possible, so I'm posting this here in hopes some of you can take a few minutes to help save this great course.

Background article: http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080603/ETP03/716337765/-1/ETPZoneLT&template=ETPZoneLTart

A letter of support: http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080613/ETP21/72329270/-1/ETPZoneLT&template=ETPZoneLTart

So if you have a few minutes, please send a message to the newspaper's editor (lynnwood@heraldnet.com) to voice your support for Disc Golf!

[JR Stengele]

I just emailed them a long winded letter. Thanks for the heads up and PLEASE people, make sure you email them too.

[JConnell]

Awesome! I'm going back out to Terrace Creek this weekend and bringing a trash bag along. Sadly, if the back 9 looks anything like it did last weekend I can probably fill it up.

FYI I just found another opinion letter they published: http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080613/ETP21/267100589&template=ETPZoneLTart

[DGtourist]

Those people are freaking nuts!!!!!! Please keep me up to date on this issue. If they close the park I'd like to go back and throw 17 again before they do.

[timg]

Sounds like the demographic of people against the course are stodgy old people that don't want their nature walks interrupted. Disc golf is probably one of the most eco-friendly sports out there. Very little is disturbed in the way of trees, etc.

If any game is so uncontrolled as to create the hazard of bouncing off trees or disturbing nesting birds, it is you who don't belong in that setting.

That quote would apply to ball golf and pretty much any sport played in a natural setting. Hopefully whoever is in charge of the parks won't be swayed by such uninformed opinions.

[Donovan]

I thought about sending this to that editor...what do you guys think?

Letter to the tree huggers, that seem to think they are bigger tree huggers than the disc golfers playing there.

Well, if we are going to protect the park, you will have to ban smoking and eating in the park, becasue that can't be good for the natural surroundings and the littering that goes along with it. Plus, I guess you better ban picinics, because that spilled food is bad for the animals and instects. Oh, and you are crushing live grass with that picnic blanket. OMG, I thinking way to short sighted! That is right, you have to ban all walking on the grass for that matter. AND who the hell killed all that vegitation by putting in those annoying sidewalks. We gotta save the park! No one is allowed in the park at all, because you are damaging nature with everything you do there. Close the park to all humans and you should get your nature back...well what is left of it anyway.

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF MANKIND! Wake up and get a clue. Am I being sarcastic? Yes, of course I am. You should take all that stuff I just wrote and give it the same attention as the ones I wrote it for. NONE!

By the way, have a great day!

[sk8architecture]

I'll get a letter to the editor as well. Here are my thoughts to chew on for everyone.

Every disc golfer propaly knows about a similar park but for now I'll stick to Whashington.
Oftern times a disc golf course is brought into parks which are underutilized. A park that is underutilized means it probaly has alot of drug users and vagrants around. So in the instance of Carnwall Park Bellingham, High Bridge Park Spokane, Lakewood, Sea-Tac, all these parks have turned around because the people that play disc golf are pushing out the vagrant trash. Now in the case of Cornwall (because I know a little more about it) that park was trash about ten years ago or so. Then the disc golf course came in which helped clean up the park and then other users have felt more comfortable using it. Now some of these users want to get rid of the course because it interferes with their use. To those people I say
Why get rid of the one thing in which turned the tide and turned the run down park around. Now that we have done the work, took the risk, and battled the vagrants you want to come in and ban us? That is narrow minded and short-sighted. Look at all the aspects of the positives of disc golf.....
I'm going on and on I'll write the note to the editor now.

[DGtourist]

I'll get a letter to the editor as well. Here are my thoughts to chew on for everyone.

Every disc golfer propaly knows about a similar park but for now I'll stick to Whashington.
Oftern times a disc golf course is brought into parks which are underutilized. A park that is underutilized means it probaly has alot of drug users and vagrants around. So in the instance of Carnwall Park Bellingham, High Bridge Park Spokane, Lakewood, Sea-Tac, all these parks have turned around because the people that play disc golf are pushing out the vagrant trash. Now in the case of Cornwall (because I know a little more about it) that park was trash about ten years ago or so. Then the disc golf course came in which helped clean up the park and then other users have felt more comfortable using it. Now some of these users want to get rid of the course because it interferes with their use. To those people I say
Why get rid of the one thing in which turned the tide and turned the run down park around. Now that we have done the work, took the risk, and battled the vagrants you want to come in and ban us? That is narrow minded and short-sighted. Look at all the aspects of the positives of disc golf.....
I'm going on and on I'll write the note to the editor now.

You make a great point because the way I remember it Terrace Creek already has a big problem with vandals. Disc golfers are the only people who are in some of the deeper parts of the park to keep an eye on them. Lets not forget how much trash is at Terrrace Creek which is not the work of frolfers, if anything, the disc golf community is the only ones who are picking it up. Those people drive me nuts, it's like they are trying to out hippie the disc golf community.

[JConnell]

Bad news guys...

I was playing Terrace Creek on Friday night and a regular told me the city is holding a public meeting tomorrow, Tuesday June 24th, on whether or not to remove the disc golf course from the park.

The meeting is at Mountlake Terrace City Hall at 7PM and is open to the public. Please consider attending if possible!

MEETING INFO:

Tuesday June 24th @ 7:00PM
Mountlake Terrace City Hall
23204 58th Avenue West
Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043

"Enter the front door of city hall and walk to your left, you can't miss it" per my phone call to the city this morning.

If you can't attend please consider emailing (cityhall@ci.mlt.wa.us) (cityhall@ci.mlt.wa.us) or calling the city councilmembers (http://www.ci.mountlake-terrace.wa.us/cityServices/cityCouncil/contact.htm) and voicing your support for disc golf.

If you spend money in the community when playing at Terrace Creek be sure to let them know about it! Even if its just a bottle of water before your round or lunch after it...they don't want to lose your business!

[JConnell]

Also if you would consider pinning this thread until tomorrow night that would be fantastic timg!

[HarbDeaf]

Dang! Thanks for the Heads up. I'll post a letter to the editor. I hit MLT DG Course maybe 2x a month. One of the best courses around. Not very many in the area.

[DGtourist]

I hope things work out well for the course. I fear the the envrinmentalists are going to steal the course away by clouding the judgment of the uneducated.

[JConnell]

Reposting this as the thread now has two pages and people might have missed it:

Bad news guys...

I was playing Terrace Creek on Friday night and a regular told me the city is holding a public meeting tomorrow, Tuesday June 24th, on whether or not to remove the disc golf course from the park.

The meeting is at Mountlake Terrace City Hall at 7PM and is open to the public. Please consider attending if possible!

MEETING INFO:

Tuesday June 24th @ 7:00PM
Mountlake Terrace City Hall
23204 58th Avenue West
Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043

"Enter the front door of city hall and walk to your left, you can't miss it" per my phone call to the city this morning.

If you can't attend please consider emailing (cityhall@ci.mlt.wa.us) (cityhall@ci.mlt.wa.us) or calling the city councilmembers (http://www.ci.mountlake-terrace.wa.u...il/contact.htm (http://www.ci.mountlake-terrace.wa.us/cityServices/cityCouncil/contact.htm)) and voicing your support for disc golf.

If you spend money in the community when playing at Terrace Creek be sure to let them know about it! Even if its just a bottle of water before your round or lunch after it...they don't want to lose your business!

[DGtourist]

bump

[DGtourist]

I'm dying to know what happened!

[Donovan]

bump for dying to know also.

[DGtourist]

I found this on the net......
http://www.ci.mountlake-terrace.wa.us/cityHappenings/pdf/pressReleases/2008_PR/080625_Press_Release_Disc_Golf_Meeting.pdf

Press Release
MOUNTLAKE TERRACE RECREATION
5303 228TH STREET SW
MOUNTLAKE TERRACE, WASHINGTON 98043-4629
TELEPHONE: (425) 776-9173
FAX: (425) 775-2365
FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:
Don Sarcletti, Recreation and Parks Director, (425) 640-3104
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Disc Golf Generates Lively Discussion in Mountlake Terrace
--MOUNTLAKE TERRACE-- On Tuesday, June 24, the Mountlake Terrace
Recreation and Parks Advisory Commission held a special meeting to gather
citizen and user input regarding the relocation of five disc golf holes located at
Terrace Creek Park. Approximately 60 people attended the meeting.
The city’s Recreation and Parks Advisory Commission has been working in
partnership with the Seattle Disc Golf Association to identity potential locations
for five of the existing 18 disc golf holes. A need to relocate some of the holes
developed as a result of an upcoming storm water construction project scheduled
to occur later this summer and other recreational activities in the area.
A number of representatives from disc golf, local citizens and business people
spoke in favor of disc golf. Their comments keyed on the benefits of having this
activity available in the community including supporting local businesses,
providing a positive presence within the park for security, assisting with litter
control and clean-up, and encouraging healthy lifestyles through exercise and
walking. Other speakers suggested that any new disc golf holes comply with city
codes and environmental regulations, locate away from existing homes and
backyards, and address tree and vegetation damage, erosion and wildlife habitat.
The Recreation and Parks Advisory Commission will continue discussions on this
topic at their next regular meeting scheduled for Tuesday, July 8, at 7:00 pm at
City Hall. If you have any questions regarding disc golf, please contact
Recreation and Parks Director Don Sarcletti at (425) 640-3104.
#####

[Donovan]

Thanks for finding that. It is sounding like they are going to work with the disc golf and not get rid of it. That is really good news. This is sure intersting stuff.

[timg]

Also if you would consider pinning this thread until tomorrow night that would be fantastic timg!
I didn't get a chance to look at this thread again since I posted last time so I didn't see the request to sticky it. Sorry about that!

[HarbDeaf]

Whew! That's good news!! Re: working with us to keep Disc golf at Terrace Creek.

[JConnell]

Sorry I didn't have time to update the thread yesterday guys. What DGTourist posted sums the meeting up better than I could have.

I played a round after work last night to celebrate :)

[Texconsinite]

Socre one for reason. The Idea that a DOG PARK would be remotely better for the environment than a DG course is simple preposterous. The claims being made against the course struck me as pure sour grapes, so I'm glad that you were able to have a logical discussion. Way to keep it real in Washington State B-) !!

[Tim_the_Enchanter]

Hehe, wow, I missed this thread completely before, guess I need to be more active on this forum! Thanks to everyone who showed their support for the course, things, by and large, are looking good for us. Due to the overwhelming support shown at that one meeting, the RPAC committee has all but dismissed Robin (the main voice against us). The crappy thing is that we're still mired in the small town bureaucracy and at the most recent meeting, the committee voted to move this project to the "next level." Thing is, they didn't really elaborate on what this "next level" will entail, other than looking at our course proposals--the same ones we submitted back at the beginning of the year. So, there might not be as much progress as I'd like, but at least we're not fighting for survival right now. Oh yeah--quite likely, we're gonna be looking at an even bigger, seemingly nonsensical walk on the back 9 if we're to comply with all the environmental regulations discussed before.

[JConnell]

I thought about sending this to that editor...what do you guys think?

Letter to the tree huggers, that seem to think they are bigger tree huggers than the disc golfers playing there.

Well, if we are going to protect the park, you will have to ban smoking and eating in the park, becasue that can't be good for the natural surroundings and the littering that goes along with it. Plus, I guess you better ban picinics, because that spilled food is bad for the animals and instects. Oh, and you are crushing live grass with that picnic blanket. OMG, I thinking way to short sighted! That is right, you have to ban all walking on the grass for that matter. AND who the hell killed all that vegitation by putting in those annoying sidewalks. We gotta save the park! No one is allowed in the park at all, because you are damaging nature with everything you do there. Close the park to all humans and you should get your nature back...well what is left of it anyway.

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF MANKIND! Wake up and get a clue. Am I being sarcastic? Yes, of course I am. You should take all that stuff I just wrote and give it the same attention as the ones I wrote it for. NONE!

By the way, have a great day!

They published this! http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080627/ETP21/277097232

[Donovan]

:eek: Well, when they called me, I told them I was a real person and they were more than welcome to publishe it. Who said getting involved will get you no where? ;) I was actually a little bit harsh, but oh well, the damage is done. :p

[Tim_the_Enchanter]

I admire your enthusiasm for supporting the course, Donovan, but I don't know how much that letter will cast disc golfers in a positive light.

[JConnell]

A couple more letters they have published:

Golfers creating bad atmosphere (http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080704/ETP21/373887202&template=ETPZoneLTart)
Community benefits from disc golf course (http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080704/ETP21/798027248&template=ETPZoneLTart)

[Donovan]

I admire your enthusiasm for supporting the course, Donovan, but I don't know how much that letter will cast disc golfers in a positive light.

Well, sarcasm is my humor of choice. Plus, I really didn't think they would use it. However, it does point out how people can go too far sometimes and that was the real point there. It did sound a bit angry for a guy saying how nice disc golfers are, but hopefully people just get a chuckle out of it, as that was it's intention.

[Donovan]

A couple more letters they have published:

Golfers creating bad atmosphere (http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080704/ETP21/373887202&template=ETPZoneLTart)
Community benefits from disc golf course (http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080704/ETP21/798027248&template=ETPZoneLTart)

It amazes me how one incident can change the face an entire situation. If someone got hurt they should go after the guy that threw it, not after the entire sport. I would feel horrible if someone really got hurt. :(

[Tim_the_Enchanter]

At the most recent meeting, the almost getting hit letter was brought up. The committee member reading it actually cast it in a positive light, stating that the "watch out for walkers, dumbass!" comment indicated that we disc golfers are actually self policing. And as it stands, the hole in question that I assume the walker was referring to, is one of the ones that is going to be taken out, mostly because of safety concerns.

What you wrote about in your letter, actually, that's pretty much what the environmentalist lady wants. She hasn't put it into such terms, but the gist of her argument is that she'd like to see all human activity gone from the park (with the exception of her and maybe a couple birdwatchers, of course).

[JConnell]

What you wrote about in your letter, actually, that's pretty much what the environmentalist lady wants. She hasn't put it into such terms, but the gist of her argument is that she'd like to see all human activity gone from the park (with the exception of her and maybe a couple birdwatchers, of course).

I might have run into this lady before, now that I think of it. A few weeks back my girlfriend and I were putting on #7 at the same time some guys were teeing off on #8. My putt hit the basket and rolled all the way down the hill to the #9 tee (don't you hate that?). Well a couple seconds later a drive from #8 lands on the path a few feet away from this lady as I was walking down and she just absolutely went nuclear...on me.

"Don't you know OTHER PEOPLE USE THIS PARK?!?!"
"How about I throw this at you and see how you like it?"
Etc.

I had to cut her off just to explain I wasn't in the group that threw it. I'm standing there pointing up the hill to my girlfriend and the basket, asking her how she could possibly think I arrived at my disc one second after it landed. Well in what I can only describe as a twilight zone moment she she either didn't believe me or didn't care, and kept barking at me about how disc golf is ruining the park, etc.

After almost a minute of listening to her I see several of the guys from #8 walking up to their drives, where they had to wait since I was standing in their fairway trying to putt and listen to this lady at the same time. So I cut her off again and point to the guys, tell her to go talk to them about it. She said "I'm not wasting any more of my time with you people" and walked off...

I was speechless.

[Tim_the_Enchanter]

Ugh, don't you just love irrational people? Chances are, that wasn't Robin (environmental lady). Robin claims to come out to the park on a daily basis, but nobody has ever seen her out there. And as much of an antagonist as she is, I will at least give her credit for being smart--I think she would have been able to put 2 + 2 together and figure out what was going on. Sounds like that could be one of Robin's friends though. I wasn't able to attend the big meeting where 60 people showed up, but apparently one of the anti-disc golf people was a lady who was so irate, people pretty much dismissed her as being off her rocker.

In any case, that lady that almost got hit, well, she sounds...interesting. I will say though, that that IS a dangerous hole, a blind shot over a walking path where lots of pedestrians are completely oblivious to what disc golf is. That's a hole that's slated for change in the grand scheme of things.

[DGtourist]

I love that letter donovan! pretty funny stuff. "Oh, and you are crushing live grass with that picnic blanket." good stuff.

[Disc Chainy]

Bump!
This park is still in trouble. Now its the dog-walkers specifically around the dogpark by hole 13/14. I played a round there yesterday and there was some drama, which eventually ended in the cops getting called. Lowell told me he's getting alot of grief from the Parks Department, and the local residents are pissed because people keep throwing their discs over the fence, not to mention the trash and hoodlum kids that tear down all the signs. The dog park is open now so if anyone accidentaly throws over the fence go through the gate, please don't jump it. I think that's what caused all the drama. Unfortunately, it only takes one drunk DG'er mouthing off to cause irreversible damage. :(
I've been teeing off for 14 around the corner of the dog park to avoid them alltogether. If I hear any more news from Lowell I'll post up.

[JR Stengele]

It is a shame to see a course such as this falling apart. It has played such a large part in the state series for all these years and now not only can it not be a stop in the series, but may not even have a chance to be a course. Have people discussed a whole new layout? I know it is a lot of work but is there a way to add some more holes towards 16 behind the dog park or up the hill where the old 11 and 12 used to be? What about 12 holes with alternate tee pads or a 9 hole with duel tee pads? I know that would suck but it would be better then losing it all together. Just make each hole longer with perhaps a par 4 here and there? Thanks for keeping us informed Sidewindin'.