Design Fees

[Sadjo]

I just read where the worldscoolestguy asked John Houck how he gets paid for course design. It is what prompted me to ask this question.

I propose courses several times a year to different groups...cities, private schools, orchards, ball golf courses, state parks and others. I recently have started including pricing options for design work.

I decided to do this for several reasons...first being it takes time. The first few courses I sold felt more of a lucky thing and I had a relationship with the community in someway. And it was fun to be out there helping put a design together.

Now that I've become more successful in getting courses sold to communities (3 in 2010 sold; 2 in 2009 and 1 sold already in 2011 and 3 more that I feel really strong about my proposal being funded) or private parties, I can't spend the time it takes to design a course without compensation.

With that being said, how would you determine a fair and reasonable price to charge to design a Disc Golf course?

[RHINESEL]

I say one price for the whole shebang as outlined in a contract with the other party. Places like to budget projects and having a solid number is a better sell than a per hour/day basis which can fluctuate.

It takes a little more homework and research on the front end but I think it would result in a better "sell" to the city/town/ect.

[prerube]

you charge when they come looking for you for your expertise.

If you are asking them to put in a course, you don't charge them.

[esdubya]

$200 a hole is the number I've seen used before. It basically will just cover your expenses and is completely reasonable, if included in the original quote.

[Cgkdisc]

Those who are interested in becoming professional designers should consider joining the Disc Golf Course Designers DGCD group. Along with resources useful for helping with design projects, members have discussions regarding fees and issues regarding client/designer contracts. http://www.discgolfcoursedesigners.org/discgolfwiki/index.php5

Typical fees for an 18-hole course range between $1000-$5000 plus travel expenses and the fees usually run from 7% to 20% of the project cost. Some designers like me charge by the day/hour ($400/day) and some on a per hole basis up to $200/hole. For clients who prefer a fixed amount bid, we figure out what the worst case might be and provide a "not to exceed" number but then bill them for actual time and expenses.

The factors that can impact the fee, some significantly, are how wooded the course terrain is and how much clearing is required, regional differences (New England, highest fees I've heard) and how much the designer is willing to work for based on resume and experience. Also, the fee may include a variety of other services besides design such as GPS mapping the site, oversight of or actual installation work, doing signage or consulting on operating facility/pay-for-play.

I think the lowest fee I ever charged, when I did charge a fee (more free than fee projects over the years), was $125 for a 9-hole course on a completely open site around some ballfields. It was two hours at $50/hr plus $25 for gas money. I marked blue and red tees plus pin placements with paint and flags. They got a decent course that couldn't have been much better considering the site and boundaries: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1995&mode=ci At the other end of the scale, I probably would have billed around $7500 for the design, mapping and installation work (lots of chainsawing with Matt Gillis) I did for the Steady Ed course at the IDGC but that was all volunteer work by Tom Monroe and me.

[Sadjo]

I find a cost of $-number of dollars per hole an okay way to go for design if you have a pretty good idea of the lay of the land and the time involved. I think for more involved designs, you need to think bigger.

When I have factored design costs I mostly think about the total amount of time and whether or not I'll be digging holes and doing the actual installation myself.

I really enjoy doing presentation and the whole follow through with getting courses purchased by different groups. I do not enjoy the design aspect as much as I thought I would.

[biscoe]

i charge between $500 and $1000 depending upon conditions...

...and i hate the presentation aspect and get more enjoyment out of design than out of playing the game at this point...

[chrishysell]

I don't charge at all. Usually someone steps in after the negotiations stall and gets all the credit. Sometimes I get lucky and get a commission on the baskets.

[biscoe]

which courses are your design again?

[jhgonzo]

i charge between $500 and $1000 depending upon conditions...

...and i hate the presentation aspect and get more enjoyment out of design than out of playing the game at this point...

I dreaded the presentation, too. The Village Board wasn't too bad (we've got less than 1500 in our village, so the board is very small), but once we learned that the tech college had land available, I immediately got nervous just thinking about going over everything with them; heck, they had to consult some legal team to make sure there were no issues with a course going in, as well as environmental consults due to the surrounding woodland. Stage fright is my biggest anxiety-inducing event, so why I'm also an ordained minister baffles me at times (I only do about 1 wedding a year as it is, though). :doh:

[harr0140]

Not sure how I would go about getting my first design, but I would also be proposing installation work so the design can be incorporated into one price. Being a landscaper I know people fear the "design fee" because so many people say they provide it for free with an install, but people dont realize they are recouping their design time in the installation funds.

[Sadjo]

I've included design fees in my most recent proposals. While I'm asking for a course to be installed, I also realize that things take time and energy and I feel nothing wrong with including that expense within the proposal.

Of the proposals I have on the table right now, one have levels...conservative, moderate and aggressive with different prices that all give different levels of involvement. Another proposal simply doubles the price of the cost for everything else.

Both of these proposals were put together after conversations and tours of the property and discussions about budget parameters. As I move forward with some other proposals, I'm realizing that each needs its completely own proposal...that no two projects are the same.

I was trying to use a blueprint but there are too many variables.