Feelings On Additional OB

[vonDrehle]

Just wondering how yall feel about additional OB on the course. What I am mainly talking about is when there is a water hazard but the OB line has been layed out about 5 feet from the water in each direction so it isn't so much a water hazard as it is a big random OB in the middle of the fairway.

An example if have is this past weekend in Gastonia on one of the holes you are throwing over a creek on your second or third shot. They had the OB line so high up that someone in my groups shot that looked perfectly fine and about 3 feet from the edge of the ditch that the creek was in was OB. And unless you happened to play this hole before the tournament there is no way you would know that that particular area so far away from the water was still OB.

To me it just seems that is is punishing people for having shots that are still nice and try but yet still get taken by the water hazard. I think the main reason this is done is to speed up play so groups aren't trying to figure out if someone is OB or not but it isn't that hard to tell if some is surrounded by water or not. If nothing else at least they could put the OB line right on the creeks edge.

[Cgkdisc]

Ideally, OB should always be marked (paint line, string, stakes) rather than using the water line, especially when there's an embankment with poor footing. The only problem I would have with the marking an area OB where the water disappeared would be if there wasn't a fair landing area so the OB could reasonably be avoided with a good throw.

[vonDrehle]

I can understand having it at the top of an embankment for footing issues and safety. But they had it a good 3-4ft in the flat area. This is already an extremely guarded green. I tossed one of my upshots on a nice flat piece of grass on the other side of the water to give myself a putt and was less than 1ft from being OB and it was in an area that looked perfectly fine. Just seems like it is almost to the point of being mean. I would post a picture of the area I'm specifically talking about it my example but there is only a picture from the tee box on here.

[solomon.trenton]

Maple hill has there OB line marked where the water usually, that way during dry season nobody has any questions as to where it is.

[Cgkdisc]

There are two issues: (1) OB can and should ideally be marked away from a water line. (2) OB shouldn't be be too close to fair landing areas especially when the boundary line can't easily be seen from where players are likely to be approaching it.

[vonDrehle]

The second one was definitely true. Even from 35ft away from the water I didn't notice the OB line was so high until we were right on top of it. I was literally aiming to have my disc land OB and didn't realize. Unless I completely missed it during the players meeting there was no mention of such an extreme OB in that area which would have been nice. At this particular tourney I think they used more yellow robe then Winthrop during the USDGC :/...

[TheLyonsKing]

The thing that got me in that tournament was the "fake pond" that they made with the yellow lines... My biggest issue with that was that from the "spray painted teepad on the bridge" Hole 7 Long I believe... it was impossible to see the dern fake pond because it was only marked with the yellow string and the string was laying flush with the ground.... from the teepad you could'nt tell where the ob line started and ended.... at the very least if they were gonna put something in like that there should have been flags marking where the boundaries were.... 3 of the 5 of us landed in the OB area and LUCKILY the wind caught a hold of mind and pushed it forward an additional 70'sh feet keeping me safe... I was landing for the same spot they were landing because it was safe of the OB creek on the left and allowed for an easy up shot for par.

Dont get me started on the OB line they felt needed between holes 15 and 16.... "lets string OB through the middle of the woods!!!!!"..... dummmbbbb

[DavidSauls]

I don't know if there's a generic answer because situations can vary so much. For example, we have a place where the string is a few feet from the drop-off because the ground is undercut there, and because we don't want people to fall off the steep drop.

I would say that if an O.B. line can't be seen from the tee (or landing zone), I recommend using small flags to alert the players.

*

Question for Chuck---you've said that water O.B. should be marked with string or painted line. I understand the the limitations of water defining O.B., but isn't a painted line just about as bad? Paint creates a rather indistinct line, and if its on dirt, straw, or leaves, it is subject to be rubbed out in the course of play.

[mashnut]

I would like to know ahead of time that additional ob was in use so I could show up early enough to walk/play the course and figure out where all the landing zones are. I agree that it would be nice to see the ob from the tee with some survey flags or something too.

[Cgkdisc]

Question for Chuck---you've said that water O.B. should be marked with string or painted line. I understand the the limitations of water defining O.B., but isn't a painted line just about as bad? Paint creates a rather indistinct line, and if its on dirt, straw, or leaves, it is subject to be rubbed out in the course of play.
Not a fan of painted lines either but it has it's place. However, in the case where there are steeper embankments or the water line will change over the weekend, the painted line is still better IMO. There are other situations where the OB "line" might be a gravel road/grass interface and paint is probably better.

Stakes like ball golf or markers flush with the ground and spaced apart 20-25 feet would be better. If a ball golf group needs to make a close ruling then they have to stretch a tape or string. Players carry a roll of string or dental floss to run between stakes when needed. We marked the Highbridge courses with stakes and flush markers for PW2007 and all players got 10m tape measures in their player packs. That system worked well and I hope the PDGA moves to support this direction where players are required to carry 10m length of string or tape similar to a mini requirement. That way course owners can mark OB permanently and avoid relying on poor natural lines for league and tournament play.

[vonDrehle]

That would be nice. They are easy to see and can be pretty easily measured using the string you described so there is no debate.

Guess when it comes to OB I'm old fashioned and just like the obvious stuff. One of the reasons I'm not a big fan of Winthrop is 99% of the time when you play there the ropes aren't down and it just turns into "How far can I throw this disc in the big open area". I just prefer a good wooded course with the penalty for a bad throw is a lie with no possible route except to take your medicine and pitch out.

[Brall]

Just wondering how yall feel about additional OB on the course. What I am mainly talking about is when there is a water hazard but the OB line has been layed out about 5 feet from the water in each direction so it isn't so much a water hazard as it is a big random OB in the middle of the fairway.

An example if have is this past weekend in Gastonia on one of the holes you are throwing over a creek on your second or third shot. They had the OB line so high up that someone in my groups shot that looked perfectly fine and about 3 feet from the edge of the ditch that the creek was in was OB. And unless you happened to play this hole before the tournament there is no way you would know that that particular area so far away from the water was still OB.

To me it just seems that is is punishing people for having shots that are still nice and try but yet still get taken by the water hazard. I think the main reason this is done is to speed up play so groups aren't trying to figure out if someone is OB or not but it isn't that hard to tell if some is surrounded by water or not. If nothing else at least they could put the OB line right on the creeks edge.

i personally would prefer an OB line well defined around a water hazard. leaves 'questioning' out of it.

however, you also refer to a specific situation that i think i'd have to see the area first

[t i m]

I agree with clear lines -- preferably a few feet away from the edge of any hazard.

The biggest reasons for this are:
1. Makes the OB clear for everyone and doesn't change based on water levels

2. Helps prevent erosion -- many OBs are streams that erode anyway, and keeping traffic to a minimum helps.

3. OB away from water helps with footing and safety of follow-through. Many times playing the edge of the water OB can result in some awful lies where 1m from the water edge is a steep slope with poor footing. Even if the OB line is right at the top edge of an embankment, it means that your follow through might take you into the OB area if you aren't careful.

An OB line a few feet from the raw edge of a dangerous area makes it clearer and safer for everyone.

But yes, it should be clearly posted. Flags are great.