Top Ten DG Courses

[nygfaninva]

Does such a list exist? I was wondering where the best ones were in the country. Anyone have a link to such a list or maybe they can share their own top ten for a new player.

[Greg Layton]

I'm thinking a good place to look would be the front page of this very website. There's a little box that has the Top 10 rated courses on the site.

[Doktor John]

I think the "top 10" on this site is a good place to start...what I have found is that it is all so objective...what I like is different than what some of my friends like...I don't have a "big arm" but love the crazy wooded courses...but I think the top rated courses on this site represent a good cross section of solid courses...

[nygfaninva]

Yeah I know about this list and its good, your both right. I was just thinking has a Disc Golf magazine or any other type site ever published a Top Ten in the US or World list?

[ERicJ]

I think the "top 10" on this site is a good place to start...what I have found is that it is all so objective...what I like is different than what some of my friends like...I don't have a "big arm" but love the crazy wooded courses...but I think the top rated courses on this site represent a good cross section of solid courses...
Agree with everything there except loving crazy wooded courses. I'm working on developing my "big arm" and for now I like courses with a good balance of technical vs. long bomber holes. :D

[Doktor John]

Milo McIver is a great course for Big Arm holes and some technical wooded holes...I'll be playing there on July 21 :)

[Olorin]

An authoritative Top Ten list is impossible unless those who compiled the list had played every one of the ~2500 courses in the world.

Also, variety of preferences and the wide variety of factors make it impossible. It's probably not even possible to come to a consensus on what the factors to determine this and how to weight them. (This is a big reason why the PDGA Course Evaluation Program didn't work.)

But with that caveat it might be possible to compile a list of various people's choice for top courses. (That's basically the goal of this site.) There could be a pool of great courses, but I don't ever see it being limited to just 10. The top 100 may be more feasible.

[Olorin]

Awww, forget what I just said, and I'll just give you the authoritative list of the Top Ten courses in the world...

(In alphabetical order.)


Brakewell Steel/ Warwick in Warwick NY
Idlewild in Burlington KY
Mount Airy in Cincinnati OH
Nockamixon in Quakertown PA
Pier Park in Portland OR
Renaissance in Charlotte NC
Vallarta-Ast in WI
Walnut Creek in Charlottesville VA
Water Works in Kansas City MO
Winthrop Gold in Rock Hill, SC

So there you have it. Anyone who disagrees with me is just wrong.

(Many of these courses were taken from my list of Great Courses in my U.S. Course Guide that is stored in the Files section of the DG Course Reviews (http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/DGCourseReviews/) Yahoo Group.)

[Doktor John]

Awww, forget what I just said, and I'll just give you the authoritative list of the Top Ten courses in the world...


So there you have it. Anyone who disagrees with me is just wrong.



Whew, finally the RIGHT answer :)

[Olorin]

Whew, finally the RIGHT answer :)

I'm SO glad you agree. You're a wise man! ;)

[tomschillin]

well, not disagreeing, just wondering where De La Vega is? 350 courses between yourself and Doktor John, and neither of you have played it! It should be on the list even though you haven't played it.

DeLa Vega, Santa Cruz, CA....best course i've ever played

[Olorin]

Silly me! I meant to put DeLa on THE List, but it slipped out of my consciousness. Here's the updated list:


Brakewell Steel/ Warwick in Warwick NY
DeLaveaga in Santa Cruz CA
Idlewild in Burlington KY
Mount Airy in Cincinnati OH
Nockamixon in Quakertown PA
Pier Park in Portland OR
Renaissance in Charlotte NC
Vallarta-Ast in WI
Walnut Creek in Charlottesville VA
Water Works in Kansas City MO
Winthrop Gold in Rock Hill, SC

(Many of these courses were taken from my list of Great Courses in my U.S. Course Guide that is stored in the Files section of the DG Course Reviews (http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/DGCourseReviews/) Yahoo Group.)

[tomschillin]

Silly me! I meant to put DeLa on THE List, but it slipped out of my consciousness. Here's the updated list:


Brakewell Steel/ Warwick in Warwick NY
DeLaveaga in Santa Cruz CA
Idlewild in Burlington KY
Mount Airy in Cincinnati OH
Nockamixon in Quakertown PA
Pier Park in Portland OR
Renaissance in Charlotte NC
Vallarta-Ast in WI
Walnut Creek in Charlottesville VA
Water Works in Kansas City MO
Winthrop Gold in Rock Hill, SC

(Many of these courses were taken from my list of Great Courses in my U.S. Course Guide that is stored in the Files section of the DG Course Reviews (http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/DGCourseReviews/) Yahoo Group.)

now this is a list i can get behind...unfortunately i've only played 2 of the courses, but hopefully that will change soon.

[Innovadude]

I have to disagree..Mt. Airy would not make it in, though it's nice. When I played it in 2006, it just wasn't that impressive, maybe it has changed or had been changed? Several holes were just plain, which ruins a courses chances of making a top 10. I also have to disagree with DeLaveaga and Waterworks, Waterworks is pretty basic besides the land it's on. And DeLa had some pretty odd lines and the top of the world is not the best off-cliff type shot I have seen. Warwick, Idlewild, Vallarta and Nockamixon I can see making a definitive list for sure. Others to make a list...
-Pickard, Indianola, Iowa
-Toboggan, Milford, Michigan
-Highbridge Hills (Blueberry, Gold or Granite Ridge), Mellon, Wisconsin
-Moraine State Park, Portersville, Pennsylvania
-Hudson Mills, Ann Arbor, Michigan (Though it is my home course it is not in my top 10, but is in MANY people's)
-Tower Ridge, Eau Claire, Wisconsin
-Sipapu, _____, New Mexico

etc

[tomschillin]

isn't the land it's on a major component of a course's makeup? how could Waterworks be improved if the land it's on is unique but the course is not?

and just because DeLa might not have the best cliff type shot you've ever seen, it's got to be in the top 5, which then in turn puts it in the top 10 courses...you can see the freaking ocean from the top! and what exactly do you mean by "weird lines"? by weird lines i'm imagining shots that you found difficult, that whole course is full of difficult shots, there fore weird lines...my personal favorite hole on that course is 12, i've never played another course like it

[Doktor John]

Oh yeah, I forgot sly sarcasm is sometimes lost in 2-dimensional forum chatting ;)

[gwillim]

I'll give you the top five (In order) for Oregon. These courses rival any I've played anywhere else.

Milo McIver (near PDX)
Great mix of HUGE par 4s and par 5s with elevation, proper fairways, and trouble along with some very technical wooded holes. Shooting par will usually get you a 980-990 rated round! When put into the BSF layout (dual 18s), this is the best course on the west coast!

Whistler's Bend (near Roseburg)
A very fun course with some tight wooded holes, then opening up to some big bombs, three holes are over 500'. One hole is a "Top of the World" shot that is 700' and can be reached with a putter. Hole nine is a very treacherous 350'ish hole that plays slightly downhill with a 40' cliff about 40' behind the basket, going straight into a roaring river. Again, shooting par is going to net you a good round rating, between 970-990 depending on the field and conditions!

Adair Park (near Corvallis)
Beautiful park with huge old-growth oaks spread out over one corner of the course. Great mix of big power bombs and technical wooded holes that your happy getting through with a par. Some holes have OB to deal with making things more interesting. With a few more opportunities for birdies here, an even par round with get you somewhere between 960 and 970.

Pier Park (in PDX)
Pier park is one of the most fun courses to play, and one of the most challenging tournament courses. With so many huge douglas firs everywhere, any glitch in your nerves will send you flying WAY off course, sometimes even behind you! Go look at the fotos from the course and you'll understand! There is decent elevation, a fantastic mix of short and long holes, and just a general surreal feeling about the course. Shooting par with all the pins in the tournament long layout will get you around 980-990.

Dexter (near Eugene)
Dexter Lake Park is a very, very challenging course. Some of the holes are pretty long and open, but many are VERY tight and difficult. The rest of the holes are in between somewhere. It is very beneficial to be able to throw forehand or backhand here to get through some of the tight shots. I personally don't care for this course too much because some of the holes seem to require more luck than skill, but I can't deny that Dexter is still a top-notch course, and a great place to practice any weaknesses in your game! Par at Dexter will hand over a 990-1000 rating for the tournament placements!


Ok, so there's my little quick run down for courses not too miss in Oregon. As you can probably gather, I like playing courses where shooting par is an excellent round. It shows that the course is more well rounded than other courses where good players can easily shoot 6-8 under par.

Cheers,
Ryan

[magictenor1]

I would like to see some lists by region as most of Olorin's list is pretty far from my location in the deep south and the top-rated courses on this site are too.

[Innovadude]

Delaveaga is not top 10 due to Idlewild, Moraine State, Pickard, Highbridge, Toboggan, Dripping Springs, Pickard..etc

[Three Putt]

A lot of it is age. Mt Airy Forest was top 10 when it was established, but that was 15 years ago. Same with Water Works. These two were the top courses in the Midwest a decade ago, so their reputations are well established. There are courses that possibly are better in the Midwest now like West Lake in Davenport, IA or Foundation Park in Centralia, IL, but they are new courses that a lot of folks don't know about. Whether either of those two courses would qualify as top 10 material, I have no idea.

[capedcodder]

How about New England. Maple Hill and Borderland in Mass are amazing courses for both length and technicality, not to mention amazing pieces of property (especially Borderland). Having read about and seen pics of many of the courses already mentioned I realize New England courses may not compare, but I gotta give props to my Massachusetts courses.

[heelboycraig]

Tim,
Now that there are a fair amount of courses with 10+ reviews, any thought of increasing the the list for top 10 courses to have at least 15+ reviews? Also, any more thought on dropping the highest and lowest scores for courses, to weed out the random ratings, a la the 2.0 for Renny?

[timg]

I don't think I'll be dropping highest/lowest but upping the top 10 requirement isn't out of the question. There are currently 143 courses on the site with over 10 reviews and 182 with over 9 (the current requirement).

[cc0049]

I don't think I'll be dropping highest/lowest but upping the top 10 requirement isn't out of the question. There are currently 143 courses on the site with over 10 reviews and 182 with over 9 (the current requirement).

Yeah, I think the rating should be calculated gymnastics style. Throw out the low and the high...or even the two lowest and two highest...then average it out. There are some courses that have review ratings that are way off the norm. Those shouldn't be considered relevant. I'm not a professional statistical analyst or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's a better way. (I was trying to figure out a way to use the words "standard deviation" in there, but I'm not positive how to use it...can someone help me out with that?)

[scarpfish]

Tim,
Now that there are a fair amount of courses with 10+ reviews, any thought of increasing the the list for top 10 courses to have at least 15+ reviews? Also, any more thought on dropping the highest and lowest scores for courses, to weed out the random ratings, a la the 2.0 for Renny?
Considering the regional bias that we have on the forum, I think this would actually be a bad idea, as it would continue to skewer the data in favor of courses in those areas where we have a concentration of members. If the current threshold is nine, I actually think it should be lowered a bit. Seven perhaps?

I can guarantee everyone that if we had equal representation across the entire country (and world), a great deal of the courses on the top 10 list would not be there. In fact, some of them wouldn't be in the top 25.

[petecarp]

Standard Deviation is the average of the distances the scores are away from the mean score (average). Eliminating any scores that are a given amount of standard deviation away from the mean would counter some review bias.

[thcdisc]

wheres the colorado love?? beaver meadows? conifer? definitly should be in any top 10

[Greg Layton]

I don't like the throwing out the bottom and the top idea. If this were a poll I'd vote to leave everything the way it is. There's nothing wrong with a minimum of 10 reviews.

[JR Stengele]

I feel there is definately an east coast bias on this site since that is where it originated. I wonder timg if you had any info as to how many people are from each state on this site? Might take too long but would be a cool stat.

[timg]

It wouldn't be accurate since everybody doesn't fill in their location. I'd guess that the bias isn't really so oriented towards the east coast anymore though. I think both coasts have pretty good representation on the site these days, it's the middle states that aren't getting much love (Iowa, etc.).

[pokamitch]

Black Falls Disc Club Montgomery, VT 18 DISCatcher Mixed
Frontier Park Hays, KS 18 Mach 3 Asphalt
Fuller Park Muscatine, IA 18 DISCatcher Concrete
Giants Ridge Biwabik, MN 18 Mach 3 Concrete
Glacier Point Glacier Point, AK 18 Tone Grass
Grindstone Park Ruidoso, NM 18 DISCatcher Gravel
Indian Hills Community College Ottumwa, IA 18 Mach 3 Concrete
Lucky 8 Lavalette, WV 18 Mixed Gravel
Sabattus Disc Golf - Eagle Sabattus, ME 18 Mach 2 Concrete
The Lodge - Island Course


Top 10 According to the site....

[srm_520]

It wouldn't be accurate since everybody doesn't fill in their location.

Tim, can't you make setting a location (at least state) part of the new user registration? I don't think it would turn off people too enter a city or even a zip code as standard information.

Now to the big issue - Problem is that if you up it to 15, all of the gems that finally got love and were rated are thrown back out again. I don't think it is a bad idea, but if only about 7% of the total courses meet this standard so far - don't you think it's still a little early. Also, what's the big deal is 10 people mark one course all 5's and 15 people mark another course all 4's? Should we discount it since it obviously has something to offer?

Kind of like a business where is takes at least 3 years to break even - I think this site should at least hit it's third birthday before raising that bar. By then we're talking around 7000+ members and probably about 10% meeting the minimum review rating. You'll also have enough reviewers and trusted reviewers by then to make a more accurate call. Again, not opposed - but I think it's still a bit early. (Gotta give Iowa some time! ;) )

[srm_520]

Tim,
Now that there are a fair amount of courses with 10+ reviews, any thought of increasing the the list for top 10 courses to have at least 15+ reviews? Also, any more thought on dropping the highest and lowest scores for courses, to weed out the random ratings, a la the 2.0 for Renny?


Oh, and I don't think dropping the highest and lowest would be and issue at all and probably more accurately reflect the true course rating. But again, that is something that I also think should wait a while until the overall review minimum is raised.

[optidiscic]

Tim,
Now that there are a fair amount of courses with 10+ reviews, any thought of increasing the the list for top 10 courses to have at least 15+ reviews? Also, any more thought on dropping the highest and lowest scores for courses, to weed out the random ratings, a la the 2.0 for Renny?


You could always buy Redneck Machismos some plane tickets and have him play and rate Flip City, Tyler, Idlewild etc....that might balance things out..HaHa!

[DSCJNKY]

I don't know how Pier Park makes the Top 10 for this site and De LaVeaga doesn't. I've played them both and it's not even close. Not even close!
DSCJNKY

[DSCJNKY]

What about considering the number of courses a person played as a factor in their rating. If a person has only ever played 2 courses, what qualifies them to rate anything? I think more weight should be given to ratings by players who have clearly played enough courses to make their ratings credible.

Of course this would require some sort of algaryhthmic equation and therefore be impossible to accomplish. However, you guys have done some amazing compilation of statisticsin the past... so i guess anything is possible.
DSCJNKY

[ERicJ]

What about considering the number of courses a person played as a factor in their rating. If a person has only ever played 2 courses, what qualifies them to rate anything?
This has been addressed in past threads. It's easily possible Ken Climo (or insert your favorite seasoned veteran) could register here and not want to take the time to mark the 100's of courses he's played. If he wants to mark two courses as played and review just those two then his value should count just as much as all the other members.