View Full Version : Codorus State Park - 4 courses or 2?
There has been a bit of debate between myself and another DGCR member regarding this issue. Just wanted to take a quick, informal poll to gather some opinions on what to do with the course on here from people that have played it. The two options being leave it as is (two courses) or split it up again into 4 with the cross country and X courses getting their own pages.
Thoughts?
coolkid32901
06-29-2008, 04:49 PM
I believe that if the red and blue course are their own courses then they should have their own pages. The scores and score averages are way messed up that are logged if you are only playing the 18 on the blue or red course and not the extra holes. You could easily make the other pages or just combine the 2 nines and make 18 on one page. But the functionality of the score book is suffering because the page is not set up as it should be. If the courses are 18 holes then they should be listed as such. So i believe that there are either 4 or 3 courses at Codorus, not just 2.
The only difference on the scorebook is the course average score which shows what it thinks you would have gotten if you played all 27 red/blue holes. As far as all the other stats, nothing changes there.
Also, combining the X / Cross Country holes into one course wouldn't make much sense. They're on opposite ends of the park. As far as I know, the X/ Cross Country holes are considered "extra" holes for their respectively colored courses (X being blue, CC being red) so it seems to make sense to include them in those courses.
Up until a couple of weeks ago Codorus was listed as 54 holes and the red/blue split made sense. I'm just not that sure about splitting it yet again. Plus, another split would result in the nearby courses list consisting entirely of courses contained within the park itself making it kind of pointless.
coolkid32901
06-29-2008, 05:01 PM
no it does mess up more than that. It messes up your overall career averages and it makes it so it doesn't show your best score on each round because you didn't play a full round. Why do you not want the best functionality on the site??? It would be the best if it would be set for 18 holes on each score. It upped my career average score from 60.95 to 64.97....how does that makes sense??? it is messing up more than what you say....it also says my average score for the red course is 100.5 and my average score for the blue course is 106.5... Can you tell me how that would be the best way to have things set????
So play a full round, problem solved :D
Codorus is obviously a special case and in the end it may come down to a trade off between clarity in the course pages or satisfying the few people like yourself that are dissatisfied with the averages, etc. in the scorebook for that particular course.
coolkid32901
06-29-2008, 05:15 PM
a full round is equal to 18 holes. the other holes are "EXTRA" which means they are not part of the round. Extra means that they are different than the actual course correct??? Which means they should not be part of the score book. For the people who use the score book it messes up all your stats, why keep score if your average is gonna be messed up because of it. And im not talking about the course average, it messes up my OVERALL AVERAGE....so that is more severe than just messing up the averages for the course only. And if they are a part of each course why do they have their own names???? and also only 3 of the 5 spots for courses near by would be taken up by the Codorus courses. That would not be all the spots, so it wouldn't be pointless, this just make it easy to get to the other courses at Codorus on the site.
Codorus Blue
Codorus Red
Codorus X
Codorus Cross Country
Codorus Mini
5 spots.
If you want to debate definition, you could use "Additional" rather than "Extra", both words indicate that something is part of a bigger picture. Otherwise they wouldn't be "Extra", they'd be something else, something new.
In any case, I posted this thread to gather more opinions on the issue so you and I arguing it won't accomplish much. Plus there is a shortage of question marks on the Internet and I don't want this thread to make that any worse :)
coolkid32901
06-29-2008, 05:26 PM
Codorus Blue
Codorus Red
Codorus X
Codorus Cross Country
These four courses should be it....the mini could be up their but it wasn't up their to start anyways.
Would that really be that hard?????????? i would be willing to make the 2 extra pages my self. And next time i'm there i'll take pictures for it.
What there is on the internet is a lack of intelligence, common sense, and organization, not question marks.
Woops, yea, 4 spots would be taken up by courses within the park, my mistake.
I'd like to have more people chime in before deciding what to do with the course. I think you've made your opinion fairly clear.
coolkid32901
06-29-2008, 05:40 PM
alright, i will leave it for the people to decide. im done.
ncmanley
06-29-2008, 05:42 PM
I always assumed that there were 4 separate courses at Codorus. There should be 4 separate pages.
Interesting.. someone from the same IP that agrees with you. Normally I'd remove the second account but I'll assume you may have a brother/sister in the house.
coolkid32901
06-29-2008, 05:46 PM
dude, if you think im that low that i have to make those accounts up your mistaken. And you can tell when an account was made, and it was made before today smart man, go check it, remove the account?? what are you talking about, that account wasn't even made today, it is my friends account, you need to calm down....That is a buddy of mine that was with me when we went to Codorus yesterday.
Tournaments at Codorus are typically 20 holes per round consisting of the X Holes plus some of the Blue course, and CC holes plus some of the Red course. However, some of the Red & Blue holes are played as safari holes (#1 Tee to #2 basket).
The X holes split from the "middle" of the Blue course, and the CC holes start near Red #1.
I do not play enough casual rounds at Codorus to voice a strong opinion either way; however, it seems to me that no one would play the X holes in a casual round (unless you park at the church, and cut through to the middle of the X holes). However, I can see people playing the CC holes as a separate set of holes.
Sorry, you being logged out and a post from the same IP address tends to raise some flags.
I was going to post on the Codorus newsgroup, but I suspect that timg got there first?
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/codorusdiscgolf/message/5495
Tournaments at Codorus are typically 20 holes per round consisting of the X Holes plus some of the Blue course, and CC holes plus some of the Red course. However, some of the Red & Blue holes are played as safari holes (#1 Tee to #2 basket).
The X holes split from the "middle" of the Blue course, and the CC holes start near Red #1.
I do not play enough casual rounds at Codorus to voice a strong opinion either way; however, it seems to me that no one would play the X holes in a casual round (unless you park at the church, and cut through to the middle of the X holes). However, I can see people playing the CC holes as a separate set of holes.
When I was at Codorus we played blue's to #12, played the 9 X holes and 9X drops you right back at 13 so it flows pretty nicely. Walking from the parking area to the X course wouldn't seem to make much sense. You're right about the CC holes though. It's a tough call.
coolkid32901
06-29-2008, 06:00 PM
I agree with dtwo that the Cross Country Course could be played by itself, and if that is the case, than people would need a way to log a score for that course and not as a part of the blue or red course...
gameboy9
06-30-2008, 07:17 AM
Hmmm... this is a toughie. Most of the time, I will play 18 holes at Codorus (if possible), and will reflect that in my scorebook. So the average wouldn't be reflected in my 18 hole games. My guess is that most golfers will play the front 9, the back 9, the main 18, or all 27 holes on the blue course... but the red course they could play 9, 18, or 27... front 9, back 9, CC holes, I could see any of those combinations, but I think most golfers will play the front or back 9... I don't see a lot of people hanging out playing the CC holes or the blue course's extra holes.
My official opinion would be keep it as it is... possibly making an average for the main 18 of each course in addition to the 27 hole average, if it's possible. Then hopefully everybody will be happy.
Post from the local club site:
For what it is worth , when I am telling people about the cod , I tell them there is the red and blue course with nine extra holes that can be played for each one, making 2 27 hole courses.
It'd be possible to create an option that would indicate a round was "complete" (ie. you played all the holes available so 18 at Codorus would count as complete). The problem with that is it would be a lot of work and potentially some confusion for pretty much one course on the site.
coolkid32901
06-30-2008, 12:11 PM
i dont really care what ya do man, i figured ya weren't gonna change anything to make it better so thats why i already deleted the scores out of my score book....do what you please, as thats what you were going to do anyways.
coolkid32901
06-30-2008, 12:20 PM
By the way, if you want your site to be pretty, why is this the description for the blue course? doesn't make much sense if their are only two courses. "Description: Three separate courses plus a mini disc golf course. Elevation and woods play a factor in all courses and the red course starts out near lake Marburg." doesn't even tell ya where the blue course is and its for the blue course description. That seems important if you want the site to be "pretty" .
By the way, if you want your site to be pretty, why is this the description for the blue course? doesn't make much sense if their are only two courses. "Description: Three separate courses plus a mini disc golf course. Elevation and woods play a factor in all courses and the red course starts out near lake Marburg." doesn't even tell ya where the blue course is and its for the blue course description. That seems important if you want the site to be "pretty" .
Obviously you do care and so do I. I wish I could please everyone but sometimes that just isn't possible. So far the locals (http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/codorusdiscgolf/message/5497) are of the opinion that it is two courses and the few people on here that voted seem to be in favor of two courses.
Regarding the blue course description, when I split the course from one page on here to two (54 holes -> 2 x 27 holes) I just copied and pasted the original description without really reading it which is why it says 3 courses.
I'm trying to do what would be in the best interest of the site as a whole which is why I asked the locals and posted this thread. I'm sorry that you're upset but like I said, you can't please everyone all the time.
magictenor1
07-01-2008, 10:43 PM
I don't know cordorus but I just came back from playing Clyde Fant in Shreveport and it has a similar situation. There are 27 total holes there and you can play them as 1 course but most people don't. The extra 9 is seperated by a tunnel and is not lit for night play like the 1st 18. The holes are numbered 1-9 like a new course. When we played we went over and played the 9 hole course 3 times and then came back and played the 18 hole course 3 times. To get a 27 hole score I could match the 2 courses up but they were not played consecutively and I don't like that option. I would like to see them separated on the site so that score tracking would reflect what I actually played. Most people I see out there do not play it as 1 27 hole course.
Hmm.. well if I split that course up one could make the argument that Codorus should be split up as well as a bunch of other 27+ hole courses. I'm not sure how great that would be for the map and course listings.
Another option would be to create a "this is a complete round" checkbox in the scorebook so if you play 18 on a course with 27 baskets you can indicate that you consider that to be a complete round. Maybe I could only make that an option for courses with more than 18 holes.
It's a tough call. Splitting courses up would obviously be easier work wise for me but I'm not sure it's the best solution. People would probably understand that Clyde Fant and Clyde Fant West 9 are in the same park. But then places like Codorus blur the line between separate course and 27 hole course with the start positions of the extra holes.
coolkid32901
07-02-2008, 12:17 AM
Another option would be to create a "this is a complete round" checkbox in the scorebook so if you play 18 on a course with 27 baskets you can indicate that you consider that to be a complete round. Maybe I could only make that an option for courses with more than 18 holes.
I think this is what you should do if you can because than the course pages would be the way you want them, but then the score book wouldn't be affected like it is currently.
ERicJ
07-02-2008, 12:39 AM
Another option would be to create a "this is a complete round" checkbox in the scorebook so if you play 18 on a course with 27 baskets you can indicate that you consider that to be a complete round. Maybe I could only make that an option for courses with more than 18 holes.I'm confused. Wouldn't a "complete 18-hole round" mess up the average score on a 27-hole course? It wouldn't be accurate to normalize 18-hole rounds up to 27-holes or visa-versa....
In the Scorebook, why don't people just check the "Skipped" boxes on the holes they don't play?
gameboy9
07-02-2008, 08:12 AM
I have a thought... perhaps on the hole information page, we can put an average score per hole, based on what we enter in the scorebooks. Then if people want an average round for... just literally whatever, they can just whip out the old calculator and do some simple addition.
You can also figure out "handicap" that way... (i.e. toughest hole, easiest hole, etc.)
What do you think?
I'm confused. Wouldn't a "complete 18-hole round" mess up the average score on a 27-hole course? It wouldn't be accurate to normalize 18-hole rounds up to 27-holes or visa-versa....
In the Scorebook, why don't people just check the "Skipped" boxes on the holes they don't play?
I would still calculate the overall average the same way but it would average differently into the course average and a best round would be recorded. It would pretty much just make things more confusing in an attempt to make everyone happy :) It's not really the best idea.
I think the main beef people have is that if you skip holes, it won't record that as your best round, etc.
I have a thought... perhaps on the hole information page, we can put an average score per hole, based on what we enter in the scorebooks. Then if people want an average round for... just literally whatever, they can just whip out the old calculator and do some simple addition.
You can also figure out "handicap" that way... (i.e. toughest hole, easiest hole, etc.)
What do you think?
The hole average thing has come up before. I just haven't had a chance to sit down and do it. You could make the same argument now though, people could whip out a calculator. I just don't think they want to.
adlacro
07-02-2008, 10:26 AM
I am responsible for the "three seperate courses" plus the mini course there at Codorus St. Park. I am going to change the description if somebody else hasn't already done it. I would prefer if somebody who plays the courses more often to give both a better description of the courses and its beauty. I live too far away with $4 a gallon gas to go out that way myself. In fact, my opinion shoulf be three courses, not two or four. Each course can have its own 18 hole option to be more descriptive and list each seperate first tee, i.e. Red starts out by back lot near mini course, Blue course starts near first lot on right, black course by hole 12 (13, 14, not sure where?) and that will allow for more clarification and specifics of each course that may be too lengthy for one overall description. The mini course already has its own, I believe. Just my $.02.
I am in the process of working on some stuff to make course splitting make more sense. Any parks, etc. that have multiple courses on site will have a section above nearby courses called "Courses on site" or something to that effect. Courses less than .1 mile apart will show up in there.
At least that's the plan..
ERicJ
07-02-2008, 10:51 AM
I would still calculate the overall average the same way but it would average differently into the course average and a best round would be recorded. It would pretty much just make things more confusing in an attempt to make everyone happy :) It's not really the best idea.
If you don't play all the holes on a course it should not count for any averages. Anytime you've skipped at least one hole, if you normalize that round to a full number of holes the result isn't accurate. The average doesn't know if you got rained out and skipped the last half or if you just decided to skip the hardest holes.
I think the main beef people have is that if you skip holes, it won't record that as your best round, etc.
Well if you skiped holes then it shouldn't count as your best round. IMO....
ERicJ
07-02-2008, 10:54 AM
I am in the process of working on some stuff to make course splitting make more sense. Any parks, etc. that have multiple courses on site will have a section above nearby courses called "Courses on site" or something to that effect. Courses less than .1 mile apart will show up in there.
At least that's the plan..
Needs to be more than 0.1 mile. See Tom Bass park in Houston that has Powell (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=170) and Wilmont (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=171) courses in the same park, but are listed at 0.4 miles apart.
Asvetic
07-03-2008, 02:01 PM
This is my 2 cents. I used to play this course consistently 3 or so years ago (Grew up in Hanover, moved to Harrisburg). I still occasionally play it, but not as often as I'd like. When I started, there was only one course, the blue course. They added the Red course later, and most recently the Xtra holes and Cross-country course. I usually stick to the blue course, it's usually open and less crowded (lot's of picnickers flank the red course).
My round is usually to start on hole 10 of the blue course and play through, occasionally crossing the street to the extra holes after hole 12, then meeting back up at hole 13 to finish out the round. So, 18 holes with 10-12, 1x-9x, 13-18. And I'll call it the day.
Conceivably, you could play 10-16, then cross the street for the extras, and come back to 17-18. or you could play 1-9, cross the street and play just 10-18, no extras. I'm just pointing out that the layout of the course could be construed as multiple layouts with up to 27 holes for the Blue course and 27 holes for the Red Course. But, in my eyes, I'll only see it as 2 courses; the Red and the Blue.
Maybe if Jay adds another 9 holes to the Xtra or the Cross-country, where you could start and finish 18 holes there, then I might consider it more than 2 courses.
I don't know if that adds anything to the conversation or not.
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