uphill holes

[marklar]

How many uphill holes should a 18 hole course with a lot of elevation change have? How many uphill holes do you think would be an overkill?

[Skankin77]

Maybe 2-3. I think 5+ would be overkill lol. At Lime Kiln Park in Grafton WI, there is two uphills in a row and I swear, on a hot day climbing up it (it's steeeeep!) I felt like I was going to die. :p

edit: You have to throw up a hill, then it curves to the left up the hill more, then you have to walk down it, tee off on the next hole up the hill, and then you have to throw down the big hill again.

[Dave242]

My preference is about 6. In my book, best practice is to make good use of terrain by playing across it for at least part of the hole both in going up and down....and in both directions (downslope to right and to left). 2 shot dogleg holes with one going up (or down) and the other leg going cross-slope is awesome!

I love throwing downhill! Thowing uphill is a necessary evil to get to the downhill holes (unless it is a ski slope and you have the chairlift going!). Having 2 creative mildly uphill cross-hill holes with decent uphill transitions to the next tee so you can have a monster downhill hole is great design IMO.

[Mando]

My personal opinion is "as few as possible". I just don't see throwing uphill as a positive design feature. I'd much rather throw downhill than uphill, so I like the concept of gaining elevation from basket to Tee and sticking with the natural contour whenever possible.

[Lewis]

What goes down must come up. You have to end up back at your car anyway, so you're going to have to climb back up either way. If you don't want to incorporate long walks between holes, I'd say don't limit the design based on the number of uphill holes.

[Dave242]

Maybe 2-3. I think 5+ would be overkill lol. At Lime Kiln Park in Grafton WI, there is two uphills in a row and I swear, on a hot day climbing up it (it's steeeeep!) I felt like I was going to die. :p

edit: You have to throw up a hill, then it curves to the left up the hill more, then you have to walk down it, tee off on the next hole up the hill, and then you have to throw down the big hill again.

I played Lime Kiln for the first time last week, and while I see your point of the two uphill holes wearing you out, it is waaaaay worth it since the extreme fun of that steep downhill hole makes it sooooo worth it. (This design demonstrates what I just posted).

Talking about Lime-Kiln, that cliff to the left of 6's basket just begs for a disc to be thrown off it! Too bad theres that big fence. I am sure liability reasons would make it impossible to incorporate that cliff into the course, but it would be amazing!!

[Skankin77]

I played Lime Kiln for the first time last week, and while I see your point of the two uphill holes wearing you out, it is waaaaay worth it since the extreme fun of that steep downhill hole makes it sooooo worth it. (This design demonstrates what I just posted).

Talking about Lime-Kiln, that cliff to the left of 6's basket just begs for a disc to be thrown off it! Too bad theres that big fence. I am sure liability reasons would make it impossible to incorporate that cliff into the course, but it would be amazing!!

I totally agree with you on the downhill hole for sure. It's always a fun hole to play. I believe they moved the placements of baskets, so I should probably head out there and check it out again. I love hole one just because of the river next to it. So many of my friends tend to over-drive the shorter holes.

That cliff is pretty crazy :p If they could somehow incorporate it in, that would be intense. But I think there is like a road and parking lot up top there.

Edit: I see the courses you played and I seen you played Tendick, my home course. What's with the rating, bub! Just kidding. :)

[DavidSauls]

It's possible to have more downhill throwing than uphill throwing....accomplished by having paths from basket to next tee going uphill.

Doesn't save your legs, of course. But it's easier to design cool downhill holes than uphill.

The point of throwing across slopes is good, and important....you don't just want to throw up & down. A hole can angle up a hill without being too grueling, and still climb for the eventual downhill throw. Trying to land on a slope, on a hole that runs along the grade instead of against it, adds challenge.

It seems to me that, where you do have to throw uphill, a relatively tight and/or doglegging hole is best. Most open uphill holes I've played, where you must blast away to go 250 feet, aren't a great deal of fun.

[Mando]

It's possible to have more downhill throwing than uphill throwing....accomplished by having paths from basket to next tee going uphill.

Doesn't save your legs, of course. But it's easier to design cool downhill holes than uphill.

The point of throwing across slopes is good, and important....you don't just want to throw up & down. A hole can angle up a hill without being too grueling, and still climb for the eventual downhill throw. Trying to land on a slope, on a hole that runs along the grade instead of against it, adds challenge.

It seems to me that, where you do have to throw uphill, a relatively tight and/or doglegging hole is best. Most open uphill holes I've played, where you must blast away to go 250 feet, aren't a great deal of fun.

Good point. Going with the grade is also a lot less work in the long run because erosion will be less of an issue.

[solomon.trenton]

Devens (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1186&mode=ci) is nothing but up and down hill alternating almost every hole. the largest tee to basket discrepancy came at 90 feet.

[tamahawk]

I don't throw that far as it is, so I hate uphill holes. But, for me, it's all about how the elevation is incorporated into the design, not the quantity of uphill vs downhill. Sure, I prefer downhill, but 4-5 uphill holes with good design doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the course.

[Rbuzz9]

Devens (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1186&mode=ci) is nothing but up and down hill alternating almost every hole. the largest tee to basket discrepancy came at 90 feet.

too bad it's so wooded and technical- i dont mind uphill holes in general since you will eventually get to go back down - there's nothing like tossing a downhill drive - but at devens 90% of the time it whacks some obscure branch and down goes the disc. Tho somehow i threw a crazy forehand (LH) drive with a Boss on 18 that went at least 100 feet past the Hole. Still bogied tho due to being engulfed by trees everywhere.

[Dave242]

Going with the grade is also a lot less work in the long run because erosion will be less of an issue.

Can you explain what you mean by "going with the grade" please? I am not sure how to visualize what you are saying.

[Mando]

Can you explain what you mean by "going with the grade" please? I am not sure how to visualize what you are saying.
GWTG=following the natural contour
A detailed map will give you contour lines in elevation increments.

[Dave242]

Oh - OK I see what you mean. I like wooded holes like that because they can really punish a bad shot that hyzers out too soon or hits a tree and takes the normal bounce towards the hyzer line (visualize a hole along side a steep wooded hill that slopes right to left and you are a RHBH thrower). Of course the opposite is true if the hill slopes the other way, or you are a LHBH or RHFH thrower.

[Dave242]

This is a really unique hole that plays along the contour line - hole 9 at Foothills in Easley SC (Harold Duvall design). Above is a baseball field and the hole wraps around a curving slope. An OB road at the bottom comes into play big time when you RHBH hyzer a shot into the hillside and you roll.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/534/2b0ed465.jpg

[Chucktown]

I hate uphill holes so I think that 1 enough, 4 or 5 would be too many.

[ERicJ]

I don't mind uphill holes at all. Elevation changes make the game much more fun. I'd be fine with 6 uphill, 6 downhill, and 6 flat holes on a course. Nice balance. :)

[trifocal]

Its really a matter of the ratio between length and steepness. I'd hope that as Course Designers get better and better the straight/steep uphill holes would be limited to 1 on a course...same for bomber downhill throws. Daves photo of #9 at Foothills seems to me to be well thought out. Whats kind of amusing for me...is how course reviews sort of pan courses that don't have elevation changes, but most people hate throwing uphill.
A 30' rise over 245 feet is steep and the difficulty is that my disc has no chance to glide or fade....by the time it reachs that point in its flight...the ground has come up to meet the disc.

[John Rock]

Sipapu New Mexico (ski area) has a 20 hole course. By my count, 9 of them incorporate some elevation gain. It doesn't seem like too much.
Hole #20 starts at the base lodge and throws uphill
Hole #4 throws across the river and flat for about 180 feet, then goes up a slope about 40 feet.
Hole #6 throws uphill.
Hole #7 throws uphill for about 100 feet, turns right, then downhill for about 130 feet.
Hole #11 throws uphill and curves to the left.
Hole #13 throws uphill and curves right.
Hole #14 throws uphill, turns right, then slightly uphill.
Hole #15 throws up a STEEP hill.
Hole #16 throws slightly uphill.

All are PAR 3 holes, all have been dueced, very few bogey-free rounds.

[optidiscic]

Uphills allow for shorter holes to play longer. Therefore requiring less space. Something to consider. A downhill shot could be sprayed across a wider landing area. I do not like the course with 3 uphills and then some huge downhill. Bad ski hills are like this. A lot of work for one big throw. I prefer the gradually sloping uphill climb with danger for errant throws as Dave mentions. I don't mind the occasional spike straight upshot. 2 examples that come to mind are IUP lodge #11 and Quakers Challenge #1. I think 1 or 2 drastic uphills is enough and that the rest of the uphills can be gradual risk/reward types. What I don't like is when holes play too similiar to one another. Such as 3 uphills in a row etc. Elevation always is more interesting than flat IMO.

[jdggna]

I definitely wouldn't go more than 6 if you can avoid it. The effect of going uphill really depends on how steep the hill is and what angle you're going up it. Gentle rises won't bother me at all, but if you're going up a 35-45 degree grade, you better make it fairly short, or at least wrap around and run perpendicular or come back down before going too far up.

[Dave242]

I do not like the course with 3 uphills and then some huge downhill. Bad ski hills are like this. A lot of work for one big throw.

Oh come on!! Have you ever played deLaveaga?! Anybody who does not love the "top of the world" finishing hole needs a shrink! :D

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/35/1c77d012.jpg

[optidiscic]

I know I would get wired everytime on that hole. LOL. I was referring to the true mountain holes where you climb up for the first 8 throw off the mountain and then climb for 10-17 and throw for 18 to finish the day!

[ERicJ]

Oh come on!! Have you ever played deLaveaga?! Anybody who does not love the "top of the world" finishing hole needs a shrink! :D

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/35/1c77d012.jpg

DeLaveaga had green grass?!? Who knew.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_PkLiobixfto/SIWI25c6xwI/AAAAAAAATXs/e_EmLwUoxlE/s800/IMG_8159.JPG

[lko102]

Oh come on!! Have you ever played deLaveaga?! Anybody who does not love the "top of the world" finishing hole needs a shrink! :D

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/35/1c77d012.jpg

Oh yeah? That course has nothing on Illinois...

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/408/6b2521a6.jpg

Oh wait, yes it does :(

[wolito]

I certainly enjoy elevation changes and you have to take both up and down as they come. Half a dozen is reasonable. Uphill shots challenge a player in different ways. If you can't throw very far it can be a pain, I know. Also you get those occasional throws that land wrong and the disc ends up rolling back towards you. I enjoy the challenge as in the end it makes me a better player.

[JoshBusche27]

Oh yeah? That course has nothing on Illinois...

Oh wait, yes it does :(

haha, too funny :D:D:D