Good Putting areas

[Ryan P.]

I've got a couple of different questions. First, what makes a good putting area/green? I, along with many people I play with, are getting bored with having a flat green with a few trees in the way here and there. What makes a good green? Is it changes in elevation, trees in the way, or other random obstacles?

Secondly, for anyone that knows of good greens/putting areas, please post a picture of it and explain what makes it good. or, just post a link to the picture on the dgcr website. (post the link to the course, and tell what number hole it is).

[bazillion]

A good green is a green that has a basket ten feet wide in the middle of it. :D

Seriously though, a putting practice area should imo incorporate as many conditions as possible that may occur on a course:

* * * flat
* * * upslope
* * * downslope
* * * overhang (forcing a putt from a low stance)
* * * low barrier (forcing a putt from a high stance - turbo or whatever)
* * * obstacles that you can stand behind and practice sidearm putts, hyzer/anhyzer putts, etc

And, if you can wangle it, a big huge fan that you can set up to simulate wind conditions ;)

[mashnut]

I could be wrong, but I think he might be asking about greens on the course. I agree with all the things you mentioned though, and like to see all these things mixed in throughout a course. I like each green to present a new challenge or a different look, and I think it's cool when different parts of the green give very different putting options. This makes it a more interesting decision off the tee when one side or the other of the basket gives you a better look at the putt.

[solomon.trenton]

try putting through tight windows of branches.

[billnchristy]

Basket on a hill.

Basket in a rock bed (Rankin lake has one...unfortunately no pics)
Basket in a rock wall (another Rankin feature)

[Ryan P.]

billnchristy, could you show me some pics? thanks for the rest of the input guys.

[billnchristy]

No, I didn't realize there were only pics of the front 9 there and didn't bring my camera...I will be heading back to Gastonia when I have to train the guys how to use SAP so I will then. (Aug/Sep)

[t i m]

I think you want a mix of putting greens on a course. Elevation, OB, trees, underbrush, etc... use everything you've got. One of my favorite putting shots I've seen is on a little 9-hole course in Richmond. Hole 2 is downhill through trees, with a creek and an 8' dropoff right before the basket. If you layup above the creek, you're putting sharp downhill, and still easily inside the 10m putting radius. If you go for the basket, you risk OB or skipping way deep of the basket. I wish I had a picture... but it's a really cool green.

Also, elevated pin placements are really worthwhile once or twice on a course. Shot at Hornet's Nest in Charlotte, NC, where the hole is ~200', but at the 200' mark is a vertical berm that goes straight up ~10'... basket is atop the berm. It's totally an ace run, but if you run high, you go way, way past the basket. If you go low, you hit the berm, then you are putting almost straight up at the basket. Fantastic hole. Lots of other examples, but I think having at least one, maybe two, elevated basket placements is a great addition to add difficulty and an element of risk/reward to short holes.

[zenbot]

Are you using "good" to mean "challenging"?

[biscoe]

some hawk hollow greens...
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_2460.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_0018.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_2749.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_2763.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_3073.jpg

[biscoe]

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_2785.jpg

[Roc1Time]

I am a big fan of elevation.....on the course and on the green!

[Roc1Time]

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_2785.jpg

Thats funny , its like the clowns mouth in putt putt, wait......wait.......go

[mashnut]

That's especially nice with the basket leaning off to the side. Looks like it got stampeded at some point.

[Ryan P.]

zenbot, congrats on hitting ace status.


Also, I said good because it is such an ambiguous word, and it is usually understood in a variety of different ways within a conversation. I wanted everyone to think of their idea of a good green/putting area.

For example, my idea of a good putting area is something with more than one elevation change. (Either up and down, or up and then more up, or down and then more down. Just not a flat surface, or a surface that only changes on one axis.) A reasonable putting line from any spot within 5' (good shots should be rewarded. If i ever make a great throw on a hole where I'm less than 5' from the basket, and yet I have a 0% chance of making my putt, i'm going to be pissed. I've encountered holes like this. the elevated basket is fine with me. I'm talking there is an entire row of trees between you and the hole or an enormous bush.) Also, I would want some trees within 30' of the hole, with at least one limb hanging less than 7' off the ground within that 30'.


In my opinion, every hole should have those three characteristics. however, that's impractical (although I do think every hole should be clear really close to the basket.)

The best green that I have ever come up with is this. (Starting with a flat surface). Find a area near some woods or in the woods that is cleared out completely in a 50-60' square sort of shape. Make sure that the back right corner is somewhat a 90 degree turn. Have a huge "bunker" right before the green, starting about 65' from the trees on the far side of the greenand slowly going down toward them to its lowest point about 45' from that tree line. Make the hole about 4' deep, and in a trapezoidal shape, with the side furthest from the center of the green being the longest side of the trapezoid. then pile all that dirt up where the green would be, on the far side of the bunker (between the bunker and the back trees). make it so that you have an almost vertical 8' wall right before the green. then, on the back left side of the green, put another, smaller bunker that is essentially the same thing. make it almost 6' tall (3' deep and 3' high), but not as wide. leave about 20' between these two bunkers (so that the green runs from the front left side of this area to the center of it.) pile all the dirt up between these two bunkers, and spread the rest of the dirt fading away toward the back right edge. Dig another hole on the furthest side of the green from the tee, on the back edge, leaving about 5' or so of flat ground from the pile of dirt in the center. dig a semi-circular hole (whatever shape is fine), and pile that dirt in the center. Dig the hole almost 10' long, going back to the tree line, but only make it a little more than a foot deep. For the huge pile of dirt in the center (the place you've put all the dirt thus far) Make sure that the top point of the dirt is about 8-10' away from the front bunker, and about a foot higher than the top edge of it. When you run out of dirt, leave about 15' of flat ground in the back right corner, and start digging another bunker. pile the dirt up in the center of the bunker, and make a semi-circular hole around it. only make this one about 2 feet deep (if that much), so that standing at the lowest point in the bunker, the ground on the little hill in front of you (the one you just madeis about 4' high. then, plant a tree in the front right corner of the green, making it look like it is the last tree sticking out in the tree line, a little further away than it should be. Make sure you orient the tree with one of the lower limbs hanging out over the flat spot near the fourth bunker, between the bunker and the center of the green. Try and hang it over the flat spot about 10' high. I would make it where if someone was standing on the top point of the fourth bunker, they would have the option of putt over or under the limb if the hole was in location #1.
Then, you would have 3 pin placements. One about 8' from the top of the front bunker, straight back. This would be a tough approach from any angle, and a really hard putt unless you are within 15' (unless you're in the huge front bunker). Also, any putt that rolled would have the tendency to roll down the hill toward that huge bunker. the second placement would be about 5' left of that one and 5' back, about 8-10' from the back left bunker. The approach would be a little less guarded, but it would make you think more about going for it from the front, because going long would leave you with a tough bunker lie. The third location would be on the little hill in the back right corner, the approach guarded well by the tree and the woods from all sides except the back left-but bunker #3 is right there, leaving you with a tough uphill putt.

This is somewhat confusing, but hopefully you catch the drift.

[biscoe]

for some reason they only like to knock around certain baskets- the one in that photo is a practice/letter hole pin. during the part of the year when there are no young cattle on the course nothing gets knocked around- the "teenagers" are trouble though... i guess they make up for it by eating the rough.

[chainmonkey]

I am new to DG and have heard others talk about fast greens and slower greens but the concept seems strange to me, what are they talking about?

[JoshBusche27]

I am new to DG and have heard others talk about fast greens and slower greens but the concept seems strange to me, what are they talking about?

um... not so sure. I know in ball golf it makes sense. But I'm trying really hard, I have no idea how that could relate to disc golf.

[DavidSauls]

I am new to DG and have heard others talk about fast greens and slower greens but the concept seems strange to me, what are they talking about?

Slopes on which discs might roll.

A fast green is sitting on a slope on hard ground, where a poorly thrown disc, or an unlucky bounce-out, might roll away. So you have to be careful. Some might consider any steep slope, where you're putting downhill and a miss will sail off, as a fast green.

[billnchristy]

I would also consider a ground that is conducive to skipping a fast green.

[DavidSauls]

I would also consider a ground that is conducive to skipping a fast green.

Yes, though I hear this less. Seldom an issue when putting; putters aren't moving fast enough to skip significantly. Sometimes an issue on a hole that is reachable from the tee, as a fast-moving driver can take a good skip---or a bad one.

To the earlier question, I've never heard anyone refer to a slow green. In my experience, it's a fast green....or it's not. Though we put thick mulch down on some greens one time and it really softened them up so discs would stick; if there's a such thing as a slow green, that would be it.

[Dave242]

One of coolest greens I have seen. "Fast" and pretty. Lots of pucker factor if you have a long-ish putt.

As your disc is approaching from the drive/tee and you are facing 12 o'clock, this picture is taken from 8 o'clock:

http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_9d.jpg
This is from 4 o'clock:
http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_9e.jpg

and this is from about 2 o'clock:
http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_8g9ob.jpg

[Dave242]

Also, elevated pin placements are really worthwhile once or twice on a course. Shot at Hornet's Nest in Charlotte, NC, where the hole is ~200', but at the 200' mark is a vertical berm that goes straight up ~10'... basket is atop the berm. It's totally an ace run, but if you run high, you go way, way past the basket. If you go low, you hit the berm, then you are putting almost straight up at the basket. Fantastic hole.

http://charlottedgc.com/images/hornets/hornets_9a.jpg

[DavidSauls]

http://www.saulsinsurance.com/stoneyhill/Photos/Hole%2018%20Approach%20over%20Quarry%20(2).jpg

The pit in the foreground, which you're approaching over, is OB.

[DiscChucker]

No, I didn't realize there were only pics of the front 9 there and didn't bring my camera...I will be heading back to Gastonia when I have to train the guys how to use SAP so I will then. (Aug/Sep)

I'm not too far from Gastonia if you want to meet up for a round. Let me know. I've never played Rankin Lake.

[Rockwell]

A fast green does include ground that is conducive to skipping. A lot of disc golf holes are ones in which you want to park from the teepad and a fast green makes this harder, as a shot could skip away rather than sit and stay.

[mashnut]

One of coolest greens I have seen. "Fast" and pretty. Lots of pucker factor if you have a long-ish putt.

As your disc is approaching from the drive/tee and you are facing 12 o'clock, this picture is taken from 8 o'clock:

http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_9d.jpg
This is from 4 o'clock:
http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_9e.jpg

and this is from about 2 o'clock:
http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_8g9ob.jpg

Looks like a lot of fun! This reminds me of a couple holes at Holler in the Hills in KY, some cool holes perched on top of boulders with lots of roll away possibility, and real punishment for ace runs that go long.

[JesusShoes]

^^^ Yea that reminds me of warrior ridge in Tishomingo State Park, MS

[solomon.trenton]

http://www.saulsinsurance.com/stoneyhill/Photos/Hole%2018%20Approach%20over%20Quarry%20(2).jpg

The pit in the foreground, which you're approaching over, is OB.

that is just unfair!

[Roc1Time]

Good golf baby! I love greens that make you think, not just a simple toss and thats it. Theres got to be some risk vs reward or you might as well go play horseshoes

[skurf]

I really like the greens at Brushy Creek MUD DGC. Most of the holes are fairly easy but the greens are pretty punishing. The hole may only be 250' but if you don't land within 10 or 15' of the basket (or overshoot it or have it fade too hard) you're not gonna get a birdie. Here's a couple examples from that course.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/1044/230e66a6.jpg
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/1044/f123f792.jpg
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/1044/803e07e3.jpg

Also there's this hole at East Metro Park that has probably the best pin location, although there's no pic of it. It's sort-of on this peninsula at the edge of a creek and is surrounded on three sides by a STEEP bank that flows down to the creek.

Bartholomew Park has a pretty crazy hole on top of a hill that's fun to watch discs roll down.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/705/80fd1ff3.jpg

And then of course there's the hole at Pease between 3 mature Oaks. Not a difficult hole but it can be tricky if you land behind one of these large trees.
http://fiftydgcquest.myblogsite.com/images/austin_peaseh.jpg

[mashnut]

I've played a couple holes recently where the pin was within rolling distance of water. Adds a whole different risk/reward element when a roll away or long missed putt can go OB. I thought that was a fun challenge.

[GLong]

going back to the fast green question - i have found that courses with lots of evergreens usually have fast greens. the pine needles on the ground exaggerate skip. much more than dirt or grass. and the needles seem to stick around all year - making the greens almost always fast. Patapsco here in MD has quite a tough set of long pins - lots of elevation and pine needles. Makes you think twice (or three times) about your putt or upshot!

[bikinjack]

No, I didn't realize there were only pics of the front 9 there and didn't bring my camera...I will be heading back to Gastonia when I have to train the guys how to use SAP so I will then. (Aug/Sep)

I keep telling myself to take pictures on the way out to Rankin, and then I get to hole 18 and remember I forgot to take any pics, and I've got to get back to work. All I've got is my phone but it's better than nothing. I'm gonna get on that. I promise.

[Peterb]

Dela has some very fast "greens". So much so, that if I don't have something inside 20ft then I usually putt with an r-pro aviar to minimize skips. Lots and lots of layups in tournament play.

Good greens will present a variety of challenges. One that sticks out in my mind is hole 10 at Jordan Creek where the basket has been placed on top of a rock formation on a pretty good incline.

Hole 6 at stafford lake has the basket placed on top of a ridge, and you tee from well above it (way above if you use the Moist-T). So the hazard is to not drive too far or you'll go over the ridgleline.

[sirflicksalot]

love that course

[Janbobbo]

One of coolest greens I have seen. "Fast" and pretty. Lots of pucker factor if you have a long-ish putt.

As your disc is approaching from the drive/tee and you are facing 12 o'clock, this picture is taken from 8 o'clock:

http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_9d.jpg
This is from 4 o'clock:
http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_9e.jpg

and this is from about 2 o'clock:
http://www.charlottedgc.com/images/renaissance/renny_8g9ob.jpg

I don't think that a green should have all those big rocks around it. It creates too much of a luck factor with the hard and uneven surfaces. However, I would think that it'd be a really nice green if they actually dumped some dirt around the target and put some grass on top and made some sort of plateau out of it. With that drop on one of the sides it would just look really cool!

[biscoe]

i disagree... vehemently. naturally occurring playing surfaces trump adding dirt and grass until it looks like a ball golf green with a drop off on one side every time.

[bikinjack]

I don't think that a green should have all those big rocks around it. It creates too much of a luck factor with the hard and uneven surfaces. However, I would think that it'd be a really nice green if they actually dumped some dirt around the target and put some grass on top and made some sort of plateau out of it. With that drop on one of the sides it would just look really cool!

I agree with biscoe. It's one of the coolest greens ever.

Come to North Carolina. You'll like it.

[bikinjack]

I keep telling myself to take pictures on the way out to Rankin, and then I get to hole 18 and remember I forgot to take any pics, and I've got to get back to work. All I've got is my phone but it's better than nothing. I'm gonna get on that. I promise.

Pics uploaded. Basket #15 at Rankin Lake:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3547&d=1264908706

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3548&d=1264908706

[mashnut]

I'm with biscoe on that one, it looks like an awesome putting green. A big rock has nothing to do with luck, it has everything to do with how well you throw when there's a huge risk to overshooting the basket, and it makes a really tough approach if you place your previous shot wrong. There's a couple holes with basket placements like that at Holler in the Hills, and they were some of my favorite holes on the course.

[Ryan P.]

Bump.

Ever since the thread about gimmick holes, I've been wondering about holes which have gimmicky greens/putting areas. We've kinda discussed it in the gimmicky holes thread, but I'm wondering about the putting area specifically.

For instance a hole that's around 220', and slightly downhill the whole way (10' from tee to pin), but the pin is on a hill that's level, even with the tee, and 40' in diameter. So if you're not on this hill, you're 10' below the pin. If you are on this hill, you've got a putt to make, but it should be fairly easy.

Is that gimmicky?

[esdubya]

For instance a hole that's around 220', and slightly downhill the whole way (10' from tee to pin), but the pin is on a hill that's level, even with the tee, and 40' in diameter. So if you're not on this hill, you're 10' below the pin. If you are on this hill, you've got a putt to make, but it should be fairly easy.

Is that gimmicky?

That sounds pretty rad.

[biscoe]

no.

the basket in the trees at highbridge is gimmicky...

[keith johnson]

no.

the basket in the trees at highbridge is gimmicky...

Des didn't think so. :p :)

[DiscGolfer947]

Grignon Park (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=489) in Kaukauna, Wi has some really good greens, namely, 4, 7, 10, 16, and 17. Very well protected, which I think make the best greens.