Roller Or Not To Roller...

[Donovan]

Which online video gives the best info on throwing Rollers, YALL?

[Donovan]

Copied over from the other thread. Part 1 starting at the bottom.
ROLLERS SUCK!


im glad someone said it. im proud to say ive never intentionally thrown a "roller" on a disc golf course. what makes this sport so enjoyable for me is watching a forehand with a perfect S-curve speed through a fairway cut into the trees, or a backhand that you know came out just right slice through the air and land 10 feet from the basket in about 5-10 seconds. the excitement of the sport dwindles dramatically when watching a disc roll on the ground skip over a root, nearly miss a stump, skip over another root, pick up "speed" as it rolls down a hill, then circles around itself a few times before coming to a stop, in all of say 10-20 seconds. i dont want to insult anyone that is a "roller" out there, and by all means if thats how you want to play go out and have a blast (or a roll) but these disc companies dont put all the effort into creating the most advanced flying plastic discs they can, only to have it rolled down the fairway. i dont think anyone out there will disagree that the flight of a thrown disc is a thing of beauty compared to the route(?) of a rolled disc.

oh and you cant ace a hole with a roll.

one last question, do any of you rollers throw bowling balls at the pins?


ROLLERS SUCK!

i feel the same way dude. I think that it is cheating as well. If you aren't strong enough to throw a backhand or a forehand than don't play this sport. It should only be used when it is needed. I completely agree....


I've never been a fan of intentional rollers... it always feels like cheating to me. I can understand the need for them, say there's heavy tree coverage. However, I've seen guys throw them on every hole and that just doesn't seem right.

[Donovan]

Copied over from the other thread. Part 2 starting at the bottom.

Anyone who says that rollers suck has clearly not seen them well executed by experienced players. I think the concept that they are cheating the game is ridiculous, if you can figure out both how to throw them well and consistently and if you can find good routes on courses, good for you, use that tool. In response to coolkid's comment about people who can't throw backhand or forehand because they don't have enough power, you Clearly haven't seen good roller players, some of the longest throws in disc golf come on rollers, many players who can throw 400 can roll discs 550' or 600' rollers with optimal conditions. Now, I will say, I don't throw rollers, I simply have respect for those who throw them well, they're much more than luck, when you can birdie a hole 100' out of your air driving range, that's pure skill.



Oh and on the topic of the thread, I've loved my switch to lighter drivers, they're easier to throw and I've gained some distance without losing and power. I throw 162-164 X avengers for most of my distance drives.




garublador-1
me-0
i spoke out of emotion, but i still stand by my view that discs are meant to fly not roll.



Well, except for the Roadrunner, but what does Dave Dunipace know about disc golf anyway? ;) Most of the time I've seen the disc designers happy when one of their discs turns out to be a good roller. They all know the importance of that type of shot.

[Donovan]

Copied over from the other thread. Part 3 starting at the bottom.

Man, I was stuck in a thicket this morning, behind a tree. Threw a beautiful toss to get out, perfect arc. The wolf landed on edge and took off, rolling straight to the basket...and then past it...picked up speed...75' past the basket!

Arg, rollers.


Rollers Rock! I throw them all the time, on purpose. If you are a weenie-arm and see a nice, slightly downhill, freshly mowed fairway and you don't pull out some driver you beat like a red-headed step-child and make like Proud Mary, put on some lipstick and call yourself Brittney because you are just giving it away like a high school girl on Prom Night. I don't care what Steady Ed expected me to do when he came up with the game, the damn things roll better than Zig-Zags and I'm gonna roll 'em!

Seriously, I watched a guy throw a roller that had so much spin that when it hit a tree in the fairway it zipped 10 feet up the trunk of the tree before it fell down. When it hit the ground it was still spinning and went back up the tree a few feet before it finally lost steam. Awesome stuff. I was at an event one time where the final nine was a bunch of monster safari holes, and some really good pros like Ron Russell, "Crazy" John Brooks and George Smith just threw amazing roller after roller. It was one of the most entertaining rounds I ever saw.

Entertaining enough that I went home and learned to throw rollers! :D

In Columbia, MO they have a "Roller Doubles" event every year. I forget the exact rules, I think it is mando rollers off the tee. Anyway, they have had that event for years in celebration of the roller!


To you guys saying rollers suck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfaEXqkJoQE

Ken Climo is a cheater by your definition...unbelievable. Although I don't throw rollers personally, I have nothing but respect for those that do and more power to them.

[Donovan]

Copied over from the other thread. Part 4.

I might have misspoke, and I have no ill respect for the rollers... I'm just not a huge fan. I love watching my disc tear throw the air and floating up and down and then gliding to a beautiful landing. However, if I'm in a spot that I can't toss, I'm not ashamed to roll, it's just not my first choice for a solution.

Course after hearing these arguments for rollers, I might start incorporating it into my game play more.

[Donovan]

I hope no one minds the cut-and-paste move to a new thread, but I really thought it deserved it's own thread.

I do not throw a roller and this discussion is really interesting to me. On the first post I asked about a video on throwing a roller, but really any write-up would be useful too.

I do think I understand that the seam on the side of the disc should be somewhere in the middle of the edge of a disc to make it a good roller. And I am also guessing that the thicker and heavier the lip(edge) of the disc, the better also. Anyone?

[Doktor John]

THe only rollers I've thrown are by accident! I don't quite know how to do it and I lean toward the "flying" thought of disc golf...but I can see the strategic aspect of a roller and discs are designed to roll, so it's all fair game...maybe someday I'll take the time to learn.

[Shank]

I can throw rollers forehand or backhand. For me at least I just throw with an over exagerated anhyzer (angle). They seem to be predictable as far as where they will land and start to roll. This is why I don't really ever do them. I guess on a hole where it was really just sloped one way in the right direction it could be good. I just really don't have any courses around me where there are holes like that. They slope multiple directions which for me means I have no idea where it is going to go. I just prefer to throw a higher percentage shot and work it from there.

In a pinch say behind some bushes (vegatation) where I can not really throw backhand or forehand I will throw a roller. I do this with a tomahawk just enough to get over the obsticle and at least make some progress towards the goal. If you do the tomahawk way you have to just angle it enough to where it will turn just right to land on it's side.



As far as what makes a good roller disc I am a little confused. I guess my thinking orginally was like Donovan's, a thicker lip would make a better roller. Doesn't seem to be the case. A putter would seem like the best but they don't roll worth a crap. A coyote will take off on you with a thinner lip. Then you have a kite which will really go and it has driver type lip. Then you do it with a driver and get next to nothing. ???? Maybe I just don't throw them enough to fully understand.

[ZMan44]

I can say I have never thrown a roller off the tee...but I use it to get out of trouble in low canopy situations or situations where I am just a few feet off of the fairway and my lie makes it difficult to throw traditionally (ie. under a tree) in these cases, knowing how to throw one is quite helpful and I don't feel like a weenie about it...if it shaves a stroke off, I may feel like a winner.

[High Flyer]

I don't know so much about technique, but I do have a couple discs that pretty much do the work for me when I throw them side arm with a lot of spin. I have an old Raven that has become pretty unstable, and typically goes from a flat release to a roller in under 100 feet.

Unfortunately I can't use my Raven in competition because of the chip on the side. My friend was throwing rollers with it last night, and we think that little chip might be helping the disc "dig in" and accelerate when it hits the ground.

All in all though, an intentional roll seems like a sacrifice to me. It will get you out of a pinch under the pine trees, but you never know where it is going to end up. Sure beats trying an elevator shot and then climbing 30 feet up the pine tree to get your disc back though.

[gcoghill]

To each his own, but to me disc golf is a flying disc sport. I also think that learning how to float a disc from a difficult spot, where one might be tempted to roll a disc, only serves to improve my skills of controlling a flying disc.

[coolkid32901]

i think that if your going to roll it when it is needed, and there isnt any other shot you can perform than thats fine, but ive seen people who use a roll on almost every drive and that is just BS to me. Frisbee's were made to fly through the air, not roll on the ground. And in response to the Ken Climo comment how he rolls, i can bet that he only uses the roller when he has to. I'll end with a quote from WIKI.... "Flying discs (commonly called Frisbees) are disc-shaped objects, which are generally plastic and roughly 200 to 250 centimeters (8–10 inches) in diameter, with a lip. The shape of the disc, an airfoil in cross-section, allows it to fly by generating lift as it moves through the air while rotating" doesn't seem to say anything about rolling a frisbee does it??? look it up in the dictionary...

[mike_riewer]

Wow, anyone who uses the roller isnt getting any love lately. I am not a roller myself, but I dont see anything wrong with them at all. Its part of the game.

Anything that has so many haters has to be doing something right. If you can put a roller under the pin - why not.

[ZMan44]

People that disrespect rollers are typically people who cannot control them. If disc golf were all about flying, then logically, you would throw from the spot where your disc first hits the ground. That takes away skip shots, rollers, or mistakes. You throw from the point where the disc comes to rest. A few years back in ball golf, Tiger Woods won the US Open by nearly 15 strokes. It was too windy for traditional "driving", so he was hitting a stinger 2-iron off the tee, keeping it under the wind and letting it roll. No other player made the adjustment. Again, I am not a rolling player, but if there was a tournament held in certain conditions that favor a roller, then you had better have the shot in your arsenal...also Innova themselves in their descriptions often state for understable discs that they are "great for beginners. But will be a good turnover disc or a roller for the more advanced players." Things that are round will roll...that premise is basic physics. A vast majority of the elite level pros have the ability to roll, and most use them as often as they use tomahawks or thumbers. Like I said, rolling is not my personal preference, but I have never seen anyone bash the method, if they can perform it effectively. The people that bash rollers are usually people who have been spanked by someone who throws a strong roller.

[ZMan44]

PS...lets keep wikipedia off of this site...it is rarely accurate and not recognized as a source of accuracy for anything. I could go over their right now and change the definition...

[coolkid32901]

PS...lets keep wikipedia off of this site...it is rarely accurate and not recognized as a source of accuracy for anything. I could go over their right now and change the definition...

no actually you couldn't, they check everything that gets updated, so no, you couldn't go change it. and i also i said i only hate rollers when people do it almost every throw. i cant speak for anyone else that has played rollers before, i just know that i have witnessed someone throw a roller on every hole, and it wasn't good shots, and it just made me laugh. The beauty of disc golf comes from a soaring golf disc through the air...not the disc rolling on the ground...

[coolkid32901]

To each his own, but to me disc golf is a flying disc sport. I also think that learning how to float a disc from a difficult spot, where one might be tempted to roll a disc, only serves to improve my skills of controlling a flying disc.

totally agree....

[coolkid32901]

A few years back in ball golf, Tiger Woods won the US Open by nearly 15 strokes. It was too windy for traditional "driving", so he was hitting a stinger 2-iron off the tee, keeping it under the wind and letting it roll. No other player made the adjustment.

if you would have read what i said before you closely, than i dont disagree with what tiger did because that is a special situation, in special weather...not on almost every shot. I think it should be in a persons arsenal but should only be used if you have to. Thats what tiger did, he would have never played like that unless he absolutely HAD to...

[ERicJ]

A "Roller" is a perfectly legal shot per all current PDGA rules. If you choose not to use rollers you are only limiting the potential of your own game.

[garublador]

I also think that learning how to float a disc from a difficult spot, where one might be tempted to roll a disc, only serves to improve my skills of controlling a flying disc.Optimally you'll have the skills to choose either a flying or rolling shot and the experience to know which one to use.

If I got upset every time I saw someone throwing the wrong disc or shot I'd go insane. People throwing to many rollers is the least common problem I've seen. More than likely it's someone throwing an ultra fast disc on a hole where you should be throwing a mid or putter or someone throwing a midrange for a open, 100' approach.

Also, "Wikipedia doesn't say round things roll so they must not," is the funniest argument I've seen in a long time.

[Asvetic]

I broke out a roller this weekend. Perfect scenario... I was playing Pinchot's Boulder Woods course and on hole 8, I threw into very dense young woods. There were a million thin little trees (almost like a bamboo forest) around me. I could never toss out and the canopy was too low for a hammer/tomahawk. So, I threw a nice roller... and it got out into the fairway about 30 feet off the basket. Very happy with that play.

[coolkid32901]

Also, "Wikipedia doesn't say round things roll so they must not," is the funniest argument I've seen in a long time.

haha, wow dude you are so smart because that was my exact argument. I was simply showing the definition of a frisbee, i never once said what you said i did. Good job bud

[compn]

my favorite 150 was a raven (i wrote NEVERMORE on the back of it, in case anyone found it) ... unintentionally , it would roll like crazy at the end of my terrible throws :)

[ZMan44]

While it is true that they check Wikipedia, they only delete what is intentionally listed as false. If I where to go on the "frisbee" page and add that it will obviously roll as easily as it flies because it is round, they would be unable to dispute this and would leave it.

[garublador]

While it is true that they check Wikipedia, they only delete what is intentionally listed as false. If I where to go on the "frisbee" page and add that it will obviously roll as easily as it flies because it is round, they would be unable to dispute this and would leave it.Not only as easily, but farther, too.

[garublador]

haha, wow dude you are so smart because that was my exact argument. I was simply showing the definition of a frisbee, i never once said what you said i did. Good job budSo your argument is that just that a definition of Frisbee exists on Wikipedia?

In case you're wondering, most definitions of Frisbee from dictionaries inlcude both throwing and catching:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/frisbee

If you're all into these definitions so much, why argue that a golf disc is a Frisbee when clearly they are not intended to be caught? Frisbee is also a tradmark of the Wham-O corporation. Any disc not made by them, by definition, is not a Frisbee. I haven't found a definition of the word "disc" that includes anything about them not being intended to roll.

[Ty9339]

i feel like rolling is the equivalent of putting the whole way down the fairway in golf. if it is the only shot possible then i understand but people who roll on every hole i don't think that is fair.

[PhattD]

I will use whatever throw will get me to the basket quickest, by quickest I mean fewest throws so hush lol. I've tossed discs upside down to slide under branches or down snowy holes. Clearly not how they were intended. As to people throwing rollers on every tee ... go ahead I'll beat you. Well as long as the course isn't designed for rollers, or if it's really windy, or if you're really good. But other than that....

[coolkid32901]

If you're all into these definitions so much, why argue that a golf disc is a Frisbee when clearly they are not intended to be caught? Frisbee is also a tradmark of the Wham-O corporation. Any disc not made by them, by definition, is not a Frisbee. I haven't found a definition of the word "disc" that includes anything about them not being intended to roll.

Yo garubla whatever the hell your name is, please tell me you have friends that call a frisbee a "flying disc"...no, i didnt think so and if you do then you need to find some new friends. it has been adapted as the name for pretty much all flying discs as well as a trademark of a corporation.

[Godard]

In any case, the best way to learn to roll is to go to a soccer field or something and practice. The courses I play in Philadelphia / Allentown / Delaware are rarely well groomed enough to make the roller a favored shot, but there are a few low canopy holes at Tinicum where the roller is by far the best option. I use a Kite but many people favor the Stingray; both are well balanced and will roll straight assuming you land them properly.

In any case, this video shows some of the technique in slow-mo. For the backhand roller, you'll usually need a sharper angle to get it down to the ground quicker... his long flight has a lot of room for error. http://youtube.com/watch?v=H1QVLQriAlM

[DannyM]

Just my opinion, but a roller is a shot in your bag that can be an advantage over your opponent. I only throw forehand rollers myself, and usually only to get myself out of a jam, or a low ceiling, not off of every tee. I recently played a course in Charleston SC., and Micheal Johannson <a tour player rated at ~1020> was in the group in front of us. He had thrown a backhand roller down a fairway where the hole was ~540. He was able to get it about 60ft from the hole, and just missed the birdie putt. Everyone else in the group threw, then had to make approach shots. All ended up taking 3's on the hole, but he did have a look for a 2. My point is that rollers are a skill shot, just like forehand, backhand, thumbers, etc.... I am envious of those who can backhand roller that far, and accurate. I can forehand roller a shot a max of about 400 ft. HOWEVER, there is always a chance it can hit something, a stick, a slight bump, a fire ant mound, then it changes the whole shot.

[Godard]

Yup, for long distances, rollers are high-risk (due to bad hops and changes of direction) high-reward (due to the extra distance you can get). For short distances like trouble or canopies, rollers can be lower risk than backhands or flicks but, for me, don't go as far. Sounds like typical disc golf decision making to me!

[garublador]

Yo garubla whatever the hell your name is, please tell me you have friends that call a frisbee a "flying disc"...no, i didnt think so and if you do then you need to find some new friends. it has been adapted as the name for pretty much all flying discs as well as a trademark of a corporation.Of course we call them discs. So does nearly every player I've seen at or heard about attending a tournament. It's also the generally accepted term on every disc golf message board (this one included) that I've seen. Don't get mad at me if your weird definition argument didn't pan out the way you expected. If part of the definition of "Frisbee" is that it's a trademark of the Wham-O corporation, shouldn't that be part of your argument if you're using the definition to try to prove something?

[coolkid32901]

Of course we call them discs.


i asked if you knew anyone that called them a "flying disc", not discs. you really need to learn how to read better, it will help with further retention if you ever read any books. good luck with it.

[Donovan]

You know it is great to give your views and reflect on the discussion, but have a flame war and throwing out derogatory remarks is not really enhancing the topic. I would rather read more of your insights than your insults.

Come on brothers, "Can't we all just get a long." ;) Show some love in the room already. You know shake hands, say "yeah, yeah, OK great", give each other noogies, and then would someone finally tell me how to throw one these darn things already. I hate not knowing how to do something. :o

The video was ok, but I still am not understanding how someone can throw this and keep it from just making a big circle. Does the wind have something to do with it, or I am i just roller challenged? :D

[coolkid32901]

sure donovan it sounds like a plan. we can all get along. i dont feel like bitching anymore. its not worth it anyways, ya just get more bull**** spit back at ya anyways.

[garublador]

The video was ok, but I still am not understanding how someone can throw this and keep it from just making a big circle. Does the wind have something to do with it, or I am i just roller challenged? :DIt's a matter of the disc having enough speed when it hits the ground and having it hit the ground at the right angle. You don't want the disc to land straight up, it will need to land at an angle and will stand up on its own.

It's sort of like throwing a hyzer flip. Too much hyzer without enough speed and nose down will get you a pure hyzer, too much speed and nose down without enough hyzer angle will get you a turnover. Just the right amount of all those will get you a really great, straight shot. Some discs have a larger sweet spot than others.

The trick is to find that balence for any given disc. I'm far from a roller expert, but the ones I've talked to recommend heavy, understable midranges for learning rollers. I can say that my best accidental rollers have been with these types of discs.

[Donovan]

It's a matter of the disc having enough speed when it hits the ground and having it hit the ground at the right angle. You don't want the disc to land straight up, it will need to land at an angle and will stand up on its own.

It's sort of like throwing a hyzer flip. Too much hyzer without enough speed and nose down will get you a pure hyzer, too much speed and nose down without enough hyzer angle will get you a turnover. Just the right amount of all those will get you a really great, straight shot. Some discs have a larger sweet spot than others.

The trick is to find that balence for any given disc. I'm far from a roller expert, but the ones I've talked to recommend heavy, understable midranges for learning rollers. I can say that my best accidental rollers have been with these types of discs.

The touch thing makes sense. I tried a very of these the other day in a field...and I think I am getting the idea. Now I just need to find the disc I want to use for this shot, so I can get really good at it.

My choices are (aa I only carry 4 discs at the most at this time):
DX Dragon - uhhh no!
Champ Sidewinder - possible
SSoft Magic Putter- uhhh no!
X Stratus - this really where I am thinking of leaning toward at this point.
:confused: :rolleyes: :D

[garublador]

The touch thing makes sense. I tried a very of these the other day in a field...and I think I am getting the idea. Now I just need to find the disc I want to use for this shot, so I can get really good at it.

My choices are (aa I only carry 4 discs at the most at this time):
DX Dragon - uhhh no!
Champ Sidewinder - possible
SSoft Magic Putter- uhhh no!
X Stratus - this really where I am thinking of leaning toward at this point.
:confused: :rolleyes: :DThe Stratus should be about perfect. Once you start getting the hang of it I've heard the Sidewinder works well, too.

[Donovan]

The Stratus should be about perfect. Once you start getting the hang of it I've heard the Sidewinder works well, too.

Thanks for the info brother.

[High Flyer]

I don't know about the sidewinder as a roller, it seems to do a nice s-curve with a soft fade for me. Of course, it's champion plastic. The older DX discs seem to work best for me. Maybe if I had an old DX sidewinder, I might have a different opinion.

An old wraith DX is my best backhand roller, and my best sidearm rollers are worn in DX Raven, Valkyrie, and Stingray. Not all were designed that way, they just become unstable after time.

[johnt1969]

I just saw this thread and thought I would comment.

A lot of guys keep a disc in their bag for rolling. There's one disc you can probably pick up pretty cheaply now and it's fantastic for learning roller shots. The Stingray. There are still plenty of pro's who keep an old stingray in their bag just in case they come across a well groomed long hole for a roller or a hole that's normal flight path is blocked by trees. I have had one in my bag for those shots since I learned the roller shot in the mid 90's. I'm not a great roller and I don't throw it all the time but it's an awesome shot to have in your bag if you need it. If you get one go with the old style plastic (I don't know what it's called. DX or something like that). It will get beat up faster and usually people want one that's a bit "seasoned".

I throw tons of little forhand flip rollers to get out of trouble. Those are great for getting around sharp corners and out of the woods when there's nothing else that you can possibly do. I use Magnets or Mid Range Discs like the MRX for that. It just depends on what kind of turn I want on them.

In theory, a roller will act like any other disc in regards to stability. Assuming the discs hit the ground at the same angle (approx 45 degrees). If you throw a super stable disc on the ground it's never going to stay on edge so it gets max roll. It will turn just like if you throw it in the air. The angle will eventually go down and it will skid out or turn sharply left(for a right handed golfer). If the disc is too understable then it will turn over too quickly on the ground. You can counter some of that by the angle the disc hits the ground but that's obviously not an easy thing to do. For those wanting to learn a roller you should go to a field with short dry grass and take some stable and understable discs. Try to get them to hit the ground at the same angle and speed and then watch what they do.

Don't think so much about max distance as what those shots on the ground can do for you. They can get you around corners or father than you would normally get if the normal flight path is blocked by trees. You won't use a roller all the time but it's good to know how to do it. It will save you strokes and hopefully help you beat your friends. :D

[JHern]

I know an older guy in Vancouver BC who wins tournaments as grandmaster throwing rollers...most amazing rollers I've ever seen, although he can also throw a nice backhand shot but not the same distance. Recently, though, in the BC open he didn't win since the course was on a wicked steep hillside and the roller is no good there.

[dangitboy]

I used to think the same way about rollers when I couldn't throw them. Sorry guys but the best players in the world throw rollers all the time and there are advantages to them. I don't see how it would be cheating? You are having to execute a golf shot with correct angle,speed,trajectery,release etc. just like an air shot. Probably a more difficult shot to be honest. Would a thumber or tomahawk be cheating as well? You will find in time that having ALL the shots in your bag is better than just a few shots to choose from. Besides that it makes our sport fun and interesting. I like it when a foursome tees off and everyone throws a different shot!

[DiscChainBasket18]

Which online video gives the best info on throwing Rollers, YALL?
Here is a quick vid I took of a guy throwing a roller a long way across an open flat field: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJIVb0RhMI
It was during a round of urban golf. It looks like a driver was used for this shot. Good roller shots are both revered & scorned. I think I will arm myself with as many (legal) tools needed to become a better golfer. I will learn to throw a roller! Recently I found my '08 Ace Race disc to be a pretty good roller disc. Not very long (yet) but pretty straight!

[Jungle Tim]

Rollers are super rad. Everone bags rollers, thats just because they don't get them. It seems people thing distance is about air time, and rollers are 'unethical' but the score sheet does'nt show air time. The point is to get the disc in the hole. If you can do it in less with a roller, go for it.

At my local there is a par 3 that everone can reach, but there are lots of trees so there are really only 2 options for air shots, over the top or round the side. There is a path that runs the length of the hole thought the path is OB. I threw a Z tracker forehand all alond the path, and at the last minuite it dives left. Parked it Birdie. Everone else, 4, and whining about rollers.

Rollers are BA! Check the numbers.

[SunIsBlue15]

I completely understand the value of being able to throw a roller, and I'm not saying it should be illegal or anything like that. However, there's a guy I see a lot at my local course that only drives with rollers. There's something about it that just feels kind of cheap. That's just my opinion, though. That's my only complaint about them in general -- when people ONLY use rollers to drive.

Also, I personally wouldn't put a roller and a tomahawk/thumber in the same category. In my opinion, a golf disc is meant to fly. A tomahawk/thumber takes advantage of certain "flight characteristics". Rollers, on the other hand, for the most part do not.

[RustyP]

*my 2 cents*

I disagree with the notion that rollers are at all "less than" because they're not what the disc was originally intended for. If anyone is going to be THAT much of a purist, they should also stop throwing bevel-edged discs and go back to lids...because that's what the originators of disc golf intended them to throw.

If someone is throwing ONLY rollers, then they're almost completely missing out on THE most fundamental part of disc golf: being able to control the *flight* path of your disc. My inner hippie screams with glee every time I watch a disc fly beautifully down the fairway just the way I wanted it to, but I get the same feeling any time I launch a giant roller that lands 100' further than I can hit with an air shot. As a primarily competitive player, it's not a matter of what's more fun for me or what I think is more "pure disc golf"...it's about what yields the lowest score.

[SunIsBlue15]

*my 2 cents*

I disagree with the notion that rollers are at all "less than" because they're not what the disc was originally intended for. If anyone is going to be THAT much of a purist, they should also stop throwing bevel-edged discs and go back to lids...because that's what the originators of disc golf intended them to throw.

If someone is throwing ONLY rollers, then they're almost completely missing out on THE most fundamental part of disc golf: being able to control the *flight* path of your disc. My inner hippie screams with glee every time I watch a disc fly beautifully down the fairway just the way I wanted it to, but I get the same feeling any time I launch a giant roller that lands 100' further than I can hit with an air shot. As a primarily competitive player, it's not a matter of what's more fun for me or what I think is more "pure disc golf"...it's about what yields the lowest score.

Just to clarify what I was saying in my post previous to this one:

I didn't mean to come across like I felt that any roller is "less than" because it isn't "pure disc golf". The only thing I was really trying to say was that someone who ONLY throws rollers seems to be missing the point, in my opinion.

I agree with basically everything else you said, though.

[tomjulio]

A lot of guys keep a disc in their bag for rolling.


..yeah, there sure is! My friend Greg bought THE WHEEL at Art Smarts Dart Emporium in Milwaukee and pulls that sucker out in some unique situations. It's heavy, balanced, and basically has a tank tread for rolling. Hole 18 at Flip City is an elevated down hill right turn into trees some 200 ft away. Good old Greg pulls out the Wheel and down the hill it goes, in and out of trees, over stumps, and wobbles itself right by the basket. so cool.

http://www.everythingdiscgolf.com/The-Wheel-p-13376.html

Then again my friend Justin aced the same hole in the air a week prior for a $300 Ace pot.

To me the beauty of this game is air and technique, but I will never look down on using whatever tool you have mastered to get that sucker in the basket. :-)

[garublador]

Just to clarify what I was saying in my post previous to this one:

I didn't mean to come across like I felt that any roller is "less than" because it isn't "pure disc golf". The only thing I was really trying to say was that someone who ONLY throws rollers seems to be missing the point, in my opinion.Couldn't that also be said for someone who limits their throws to only air shots, only forehand, only backhand or only overhand? What exactly is "the point?"

[tomjulio]

Couldn't that also be said for someone who limits their throws to only air shots, only forehand, only backhand or only overhand? What exactly is "the point?"

Leave the kid alone.

His "point" is that a disc/frisbee was made and is intended for the beauty of watching it behave IN the air. based on the technical skills you have learned and acquired throwing the disc. If you think otherwise you should re-examine why you play. A roller is more a utility shot. To do rollers the whole game basically takes away from the basic fundamentals of the game. Is it legal and ok to do a whole round with just rollers? Yeah sure, knock yourself out. BUT if you think a roller IS the game, then well hell, wouldn't you have thought that the initial disc golfers would have called it round-object-rolling-on-the-ground-golf and put the basket on the ground, into something like a hole or similar?

[garublador]

Leave the kid alone.

His "point" is that a disc/frisbee was made and is intended for the beauty of watching it behave IN the air. based on the technical skills you have learned and acquired throwing the disc. If you think otherwise you should re-examine why you play. A roller is more a utility shot. To do rollers the whole game basically takes away from the basic fundamentals of the game. Is it legal and ok to do a whole round with just rollers? Yeah sure, knock yourself out. BUT if you think a roller IS the game, then well hell, wouldn't you have thought that the initial disc golfers would have called it round-object-rolling-on-the-ground-golf and put the basket on the ground, into something like a hole or similar?Then how come it's called "disc golf" and not "flying disc golf?" Are people really still trying to argue that round things aren't meant to roll?

My point is that "the point" is dependent on the individual. If somone plays because they like rolling discs then that is no less valid than someone playing to get the lowest score or to see a disc fly. Heck, it's just as valid to play because you like hanging out with friends, enjoy the outdoors or like using waterproof socks and none of those have anything to do with discs at all.

If nothing else the creaters of disc golf intended the game to be fun. While I don't know any of the pioneers or big names of the sport personally, I'd be very surprised to hear that any of them disagree with this. If you're having fun then you aren't doing anything wrong regardless of how you throw or how you score. Looking down on others for how they have fun is the exact opposite of what the inventors of the sport and the discs intended.

[RustyP]

I didn't mean to come across like I felt that any roller is "less than" because it isn't "pure disc golf". The only thing I was really trying to say was that someone who ONLY throws rollers seems to be missing the point, in my opinion.

I was agreeing with you, just elaborating on my POV a little ;)

I too should clarify that I'm not referring to any specific person when I referenced the ideas of a roller being "less than" or not "pure disc golf"...those are just opinions that I've heard in past roller discussions.

Carry on :D

[SunIsBlue15]

Leave the kid alone.haha thanks for the backup, but I'm ok with people disagreeing with me. It's all in good fun anyway. :)

Looking down on others for how they have fun is the exact opposite of what the inventors of the sport and the discs intended.I'm not looking down on anyone. Again, all I'm saying is that, in my opinion, they are missing out on what I believe is the point of disc golf. That doesn't mean I think they are a loser. And that doesn't mean that I think they shouldn't be playing. It just means that I think it's a little weird. That's all. Honestly, if I played with a person that ONLY threw rollers off the tee, I would spend the entire round trying to figure out how to do it and have them teach me so I could add a roller to the types of throws I can do successfully.

I was trying to think of a good sports analogy, and I can't really think of one that I'm happy with. But something that is close is this:

It's like if you're a fast baseball player and the only thing you ever do is bunt for a base hit. Yes, bunting is part of the game. Yes, it can be an extremely useful part of the game. Yes, bunting every at bat is legal. However, in my opinion, it's kind of missing the point. And that point is that baseball was meant to be played where a pitcher throws a ball and the hitter hits it. To bring it back to disc golf -- the point, in my opinion, is to throw a disc into a basket.

I know that's not the best analogy, but it's the best I could come up with while I was typing this post.

[JR Stengele]

I hear what your saying. People need to use a variety of shots, not just one. Discgolf was meant to force people to critically think about each shot and try new approaches. It would be like using a driver in golf on every shot. Variety is key. = )

[PhattD]

I think that if you don't like some ones shot selection you should beat them and show them your shot selection is better. If you can't then I guess their shot selection was ok. That goes for rollers, thumbers, forehand, and those stupi @%$@#$ Lucky @%$$ skip shots that just barely stay in the $^^##@$ basket tobeat you by one stroke. But at least I'm not bitter or nuthin. :D

[discinator]

I think to say that we must use a variety of shots is just a wrong statement. Its not up to the player to try to use as many variety of shots as possible. To me this discussion is more about course design than shot selection. If a guy can play a whole round with just rollers then that is one lame course and the designer should be ashamed.

The players job is to navigate the course with as few throws as possible period. The course designers job is to test the players shot making ability by making him throw in as many different ways and situations as possible. Thats just my $.02

[DeafDiscGolfer]

I completely understand the value of being able to throw a roller, and I'm not saying it should be illegal or anything like that. However, there's a guy I see a lot at my local course that only drives with rollers. There's something about it that just feels kind of cheap. That's just my opinion, though. That's my only complaint about them in general -- when people ONLY use rollers to drive.

I wonder how this guy who only uses rollers for driving shots able to make the shots across the water hazard or rough uneven terrains? I would either assume that there are no water hazards or any rough terrains at this certain course that you are speaking of...

Maybe this guy only played this course for years and have come to sense that rollers are the best way for this course to achieve low scores...

One guy always throws thumber/tomahawk methods for two years until he realized that it doesn't always works for him and started to throw sidearms more often and it has improved his game.

Its all depends on one's own preferred methods on how they like to throw their discs...

[SunIsBlue15]

I wonder how this guy who only uses rollers for driving shots able to make the shots across the water hazard or rough uneven terrains? I would either assume that there are no water hazards or any rough terrains at this certain course that you are speaking of...

Yeah the course is on a small college campus so the only hazards are random sculptures and hitting people with your disc haha

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2446

[PhattD]

I think to say that we must use a variety of shots is just a wrong statement. Its not up to the player to try to use as many variety of shots as possible. To me this discussion is more about course design than shot selection. If a guy can play a whole round with just rollers then that is one lame course and the designer should be ashamed.

The players job is to navigate the course with as few throws as possible period. The course designers job is to test the players shot making ability by making him throw in as many different ways and situations as possible. Thats just my $.02

Wouldn't your gripe then be with the course designer and not the guy throwing rollers? And it's not like the roller crowd is criticizing people for not throwing rollers. It's just one of many legal shots. The guy that throws all rollers isn't much different than the guy that can only throw hyzers.

[discinator]

Wouldn't your gripe then be with the course designer and not the guy throwing rollers? And it's not like the roller crowd is criticizing people for not throwing rollers. It's just one of many legal shots. The guy that throws all rollers isn't much different than the guy that can only throw hyzers.


Maybe you misunderstood me. My gripe is with the course designer and that is what I was saying.I really don't have a complaint at all. I'm trying to say that, to me, we should not criticize the players for using only one shot on the course. I think you should use whatever you think will get you there the best.
If there needs to be any criticizing we should turn it to the course designers who made a course that could be exploited with a roller on every hole.

[PhattD]

Maybe you misunderstood me. My gripe is with the course designer and that is what I was saying.I really don't have a complaint at all. I'm trying to say that, to me, we should not criticize the players for using only one shot on the course. I think you should use whatever you think will get you there the best.
If there needs to be any criticizing we should turn it to the course designers who made a course that could be exploited with a roller on every hole.

Gotcha I was confused but I'm better now.:confused:

[DiscGolfMagician]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdlxdSWCMKU

i think he does a good job of explaining it

[Scoot_er]

One of my DG goals for the year included making a short instructional and I think the roller may be the perfect topic.

[CoachQ]

I love the roller when thrown properly. I have only needed to throw two rollers from the tee in tournaments and fortunately they both worked out well. I have thrown a few as rescue shots but they are not as pretty. A good roller is a thing of beauty and is a great piece of ammo to have in your arsenal.

[steven2361]

One of my DG goals for the year included making a short instructional and I think the roller may be the perfect topic.

Instructional vids from you would be great :hfive:

[roc-chucker]

To answer your question there isn't a top pro i can think of that doesn't have a roller in there game so if you are striving to great then learn to roll. I am 28 and can through 400' but I get whooped on in league by guys twice my age because they can through premo rollers when needed and I can't.

[ssjfewp]

To answer your question there isn't a top pro i can think of that doesn't have a roller in there game so if you are striving to great then learn to roll. I am 28 and can through 400' but I get whooped on in league by guys twice my age because they can through premo rollers when needed and I can't.

Cale doesn't.

Matt- Come to CT for our A Tier and make a video with Bard. I'll film.

[DrJim]

I'm actually having trouble believing there are folks who have issues with rollers - or any other type of "specialty" throw. Used to be that disc golf was less about "power" and more about finesse and creativity. I definitely think a course should challenge a player to pull out every conceivable throw in order to play well - especially when one's in trouble and has to pull it out of one's butt... The use of forehands, rollers, upside-downers, scoobers, thumbers, skippers, etc. etc. etc. is what makes the game cool. When one can master all these AND the backhand, power, heiser, then one REALLY knows how to play the game. I just wish more courses were designed to reward diversity than just power backhands.

[jtbingster]

Rollers are useful and hard to learn to throw well. Those who call them cheating are just jealous that I can park a curvy 400' hole with a roller and they can't.

[notBOB]

for me the backhand roller started off as a shanked drive to the ground with an understable, completely by accident. i then put a little more anhy on it and a little more flight on the disc, and they took off from there. i have been throwing forehand rollers for a year or so before i learned the bh roller. extremely useful imo.

[Jivecody]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdlxdSWCMKU

i think he does a good job of explaining it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5joRhBOjDM

way better tutorial

[beeftrout]

Not that it adds to the thread or anything, but I just had to chime in on the "You can't ace with a roller" comment. I definitely got an intentional ace with an intentional roller. Hole that plays slightly uphill, fairway a crapshoot of trees with a very tight anhyzer line. As a developing player I would play around with the best way to get to the basket. BH rollers turned right quick enough to hit the line nearly every time. It was only a matter of time before I developed the skill to aim them toward the basket, which happened to be surrounded by a circle of large rocks which created a ramp like effect. Eventually, bam, roller ace.

[Guru10]

@jivecody- that's the best video on the subject imo. He explains that the disc follows a similar path as it would in the air. Briliant.

Personally, I love them. Perfect for when you're stuck deep off the fair, heavy overhead coverage and there's an opening wide enough for a disc. I use a champ glo whippet for my LHFH roller. I adjust the angle, just as I would with a regular BH, just like the guy in jivecodys video. Straight up for shorter "P" shape or more like 11 o'clock (LHFH) for a more wider, longer curve. Can't throw a BH very well though.

I really think that every shot is technically flying through the air, at some point. It has to leave your hand, travel through air then eventually land. Rollers are more immediate and its more of a manipulation of the landing. Air shots are delayed, as they are manipulations of the flight path. I feel my argument is both valid and sound.

[tarel]

A "Roller" is a perfectly legal shot per all current PDGA rules. If you choose not to use rollers you are only limiting the potential of your own game.

This:popcorn:

[HybridZombiw]

i love throwing rollers, mainly with mids only. I love to throw a backhand roller with my buzz and watch it go on and on. Some find it cheating and unfair, i find it amusing and entertaining to watch where it goes and what it does. I've thrown rollers on sidewalks and watched it act like it was a car doing a burn out on pavement before it rolls a good 200-250' They are just one of those throws are not only fun to watch, but really hard to learn to control them properly.

[jmitch]

i love throwing rollers, mainly with mids only. I love to throw a backhand roller with my buzz and watch it go on and on. Some find it cheating and unfair, i find it amusing and entertaining to watch where it goes and what it does. I've thrown rollers on sidewalks and watched it act like it was a car doing a burn out on pavement before it rolls a good 200-250' They are just one of those throws are not only fun to watch, but really hard to learn to control them properly.

I love it when people think its like cheating. Much like yourself I love a backhand roller with a mid and its a very very high risk high reward shot. If its not released well or if a gust of wind comes up it turns into a very poor shot. The roller is apart of the game just as the tomahawk and thumber are.

[yearofrolling]

I totally expected more roller love in here and am pretty surprised at the number of people not throwing them or having minimal experience with them.
Some one should make a Rollers Poll.
I'm not good at them but I don't hesitate to execute them, well, try to pull um off half way at least.

[NoahChristopher]

Rollers are a must have shot for certain courses.Whenever I play Paw Paw I throw at least 6 to 8 rollers FH and BH, and learning them has helped my game tremendously and made me a more well rounded player.Hate on it all you want but it helps lower my score.

[Travis1010]

Theres a couple holes that I always throw a roller on. The courses I play the most just aren't very roller friendly. I throw backhand, and need lots of room :D. I throw them for distance on long open holes. A good roller for me goes 350, a good drive for me only goes 300.

[austin234]

i love rollers, cant throw them the greatest but its an awesome shot. i watched a video wher nicko lacastro said that being able to throw a good roller is what seperates the amateurs from the pros. after seeing some amazing rollers in person i believe it has some truth. most of us can throw a roller to some degree, but only some can throw them great. sall about the practice, its a great get out of trouble shot thats for sure

[dodgeball]

Theres a couple holes that I always throw a roller on. The courses I play the most just aren't very roller friendly. I throw backhand, and need lots of room :D. I throw them for distance on long open holes. A good roller for me goes 350, a good drive for me only goes 300.

It's exactly the same for me--a well executed roller with go past a good drive on an open hole. Oh and they're just fun to throw!

[chickenonabun]

Do you guys intentionally use OAT in your rollers? I'm a mega n00b at rollers and I pretty much have to use some bad OAT to throw one.

[medicinalfunk]

i lean back and follow through low, like i'm throwing a super exaggerated anhyzer

[Smigles]

goal of the game : get the disc into the basket with the least throws possible.

You get no points for esthetics or for how much your throw pleases Donovan. Therefore I'll throw what works, not what some roller nazis want me to throw.

[Bert Slide]

I'm fairly new to disc golf and am really surprised to find "purist" who would diss someone for using a legal and often very effective shot. I always considered disc golfers laid back types just looking to have a good time playing an unconventional sport, not judgemental holier than thou types.

I ran into this type of purist thought often in the ten years I was a flyfishing guide. Some clients would show up and tell me they were dry fly "purist" and if they couldn't catch fish on the surface they didn't care about catching them. A dry fly is a fly that floats so the fish must rise to the surface to eat it. Topwater fishing is exiting because you get to see all the action. Some feel that that dry fly fishing is the only "pure" form of the sport and using sinking flys(called wet flys or nymphs) is not "real" flyfishing. Some take it as far they will only cast upstream to fish they see rise first and some will only use old bamboo rods instead of new vastly superior high-speed graphite. To each his own I guess.

The dry fly purists are correct that the upstream cast with an unweighted fly IS more aesthetically beautiful to watch then someone flicking out a weighted fly and fishing it downstream. The object however is to catch fish. What I found from most of the "purist" I guided was they just didn't know how to fish subsurface and most were not very good casters and a weighted fly is easier to tangle so they got frustrated trying at some point and just gave up on this part of their "game". I guess it was easier for them to dismiss a vastly effective style of fishing as impure yhen to spend some time practicing. Bummer for them that fish feed subsurface most of the time and the largest trout will rarely expend the energy to rise to the surface to eat a tiny bug. Once I explained this to them and showed them how to fish with wet flys and how to cast without tangling so often they were suddenly catching more and much larger fish. They changed their tune then and lightened up on the "I'm a dry fly purist" BS.


In the beginning there was only ROCK...till someone invented the wheel...and then things began to ROLL! So rock and roll brothers and if you wanna roll a roc have at it.

[bsstarnesj]

i throw rollers with a discraft xpress around 450......my regular drive is topping out at 400, all i do is throw a really high and hard anhyzer and let the disc roll out it almost flexes out just like a regular shot.... i also really enjoy throwing flick rollers with my rhynos... they go so straight and i can control the distance and accuracy under 150'

[sloppydisc]

I have nothing against rollers. I actually grabbed the wrong disc, and accidentally threw one the other day. Fun to watch. But the few times I've tried them I couldn't control them at all. Seems like a shot that needs a decent amount of practice to learn. Plus I suspect the roots and rocks at our NC courses might make it a tough shot to control.