Boy Scout designed courses

[Sadjo]

I have been asked twice in one day (last Friday) to work with a Boy Scout on a Disc Golf course project. In both cases I know the scout's dad through my work and both of the dads were helping their sons find something for their Eagle Scout project.

I agreed to help and in both cases even offered to sponsor one of the holes being that fund raising is a big part for these type projects.

So here's the question...how envolved should I get? My biggest worry is a design that isn't very good but I also don't want to over step or discourage the scout.

[zenbot]

Eagle Scout projects are more about the kid organizing something. It's OK if he doesn't do all the work. In fact, he shouldn't be. It's about delegation and involving the community. Help as much as he needs help. Run things past him so he's still involved in the decision making process but in the end it would be a disservice if he made a course nobody will use because the design 5ux0r3d.

[S.Cann]

I would definitely be involved. Especially if he's not a disc golfer. A poor design on great space made available would be a shame.

On another note, where will these courses be? :)

[DSCJNKY]

What Zenbot said... most of the project is about the kid organizing the community to help do something. He is supposed to help, but is not supposed to be the expert. He's supposed to learn how to do it right.

I had an eagle scout build a kiosk for one of my hiking trails. The kiosk design called for a lot of rock work. He had a local mason come out and do the brick laying. The eagle scout just brought him the bricks and mixed the mortar.

DSCJNKY

[Sadjo]

@ Sam...one will be in the upstate while the other will be in Northeast GA. The land for the course in GA is secure. The land for the one in the upstate isn't but that land the scout will ask for was discussed for a potential course a year or so ago.

Sorry I can't be more specific...I try to keep things close to the chest until agreements are in writting.

I'm also working on a deal for an 18 pay to play in western NC...but won't let anything on that be known beyond me working on it because I don't want to take any chances.

[Sean Johnson]

Eagle Scout projects are more about the kid organizing something. It's OK if he doesn't do all the work. In fact, he shouldn't be. It's about delegation and involving the community. Help as much as he needs help. Run things past him so he's still involved in the decision making process but in the end it would be a disservice if he made a course nobody will use because the design 5ux0r3d.

This /\. And FWIW, I was a cub/boy scout for many years.

[bcr123psu]

Another vote for what zenny said. Chimney Rock DGC (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=796) in Bridgewater, NJ is a Boy Scout project. I'm not going to say it's a crappy course because it definitely has some interesting aspects, but it could have benefited from stronger guidance.

[Mongo97]

Another Boy Scout course - Avery Preserve. (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=829&mode=rev)

The course will be around long after the Boy Scouts come and go, help where you can to make a good one.

[BrotherDave]

Yes, in my experience anything boy scouts do is horrible. Please, make sure this course doesn't bomb.

[Steve West]

Disc Golf in Support of Scouting Training Module (http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult/Supplemental/DiscGolf.aspx)

In short, even if you do the whole design, it's OK. The scout's job is to find/motivate/organize people to do all the things that need to be done, not to DO all the things that need to be done.

[KniceZ]

Some Councils can get a little too exteme with requiring the scout to be in charge but generally they don't expect the youth to plan everything. I've seen Eagle projects that built large picnic shelter, or a pretty extensive hiking bridge over a river, or several other structures that any city/county government would expect a Prof Eng certification before granting a building permit.

As an Eagle Scout and Scoutmaster, my recommendation would be to help a lot with the design so it turns out to be a good course, but don't push the youth aside and hand him a design. Eagle projects are supposed to be about the youth learning leadership and coordination.

Besides, let's not give BroD another reason to slam one of the best youth organizations this country has ever seen. :thmbup:

[KniceZ]

Just to follow-up, in the link the Steve provided it specifically says that it's okay that "an expert provide the design for the course related aspects of the project. The Scout is not supposed to do all the work, but instead to provide leadership." It also goes on to say that even if the Scout wants to do the design, that it should be reviewed by a disc golf course designer to make sure that it complies with all the PDGA design standards.

[drickanderson]

I'm just going to agree with what others have said here. If you're being asked to aid in the design of the course, then in that context, you are the expert and you should treat the request as such. Go over your plan with the scout, and explain the decisions that you've made so that he understands what is being done and why. If he plays disc golf, he may have some input and you should listen to it. Maybe agree to incorporate one or two of his ideas (or more if they're good), and explain to him why you disagree with the others.

This is a learning process for the scout, and his role is to delegate, manage and oversee the project through completion.

[Dadio]

Please provide all guidance necessary for a playable course! :-) Local Boy Scout designs range from really unimpressive to unplayable. Too bad, can tell some effort went into them but didn't know disc golf.

[Sadjo]

I've played a few scout designed/installed courses. The one in Estherville IA is the one I played most since I used to live there. Each hole is fairly nice but over all the design has issues with several shared fairways and having one tee box in the middle of a different holes fairway.

There is a scout course in Clemson not too far from where I live. Its a real short heavily wooded course that looks as if there was no to little thought on what a fairway is or should be.

Being that both these scouts are sons of clients, I think its a great opportunity.

[koogs]

I've played a few scout designed/installed courses. The one in Estherville IA is the one I played most since I used to live there. Each hole is fairly nice but over all the design has issues with several shared fairways and having one tee box in the middle of a different holes fairway.

Wow, yeah, some experienced guidance would have been really helpful there.:doh:

[puttlikeablowfly]

The new 9-holer in Jackson, WI is an Eagle Scout project. It's not a bad little course, but there were definitely a few relatively minor design modifications that, in my mind, would have made the course much better. I can't claim to know what restrictions the parks dept had, but there seemed to be some lost opportunities and a couple of safety concerns.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=4592

[Skin5482]

Another Eagle Scout disc golf course

Mayfair Park Westchester, IL (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1529)

[bcr123psu]

Youch.

[New013]

this is what i took from this thread...

we need to go out and recruit boyscouts to approach their leaders and local governments to build courses...

we also need to make sure that the boyscouts do very little of the course design and more of the manual labor...

[412Disc]

Help design, definitely.

[MacDaddy]

I have been asked twice in one day (last Friday) to work with a Boy Scout on a Disc Golf course project. In both cases I know the scout's dad through my work and both of the dads were helping their sons find something for their Eagle Scout project.

I agreed to help and in both cases even offered to sponsor one of the holes being that fund raising is a big part for these type projects.

So here's the question...how envolved should I get? My biggest worry is a design that isn't very good but I also don't want to over step or discourage the scout.

I have done four different courses that were in part or whole an "Eagle Scout" project. As other people have listed above, they are mainly to be managers of a process which is meant to benefit and improve their community. Using you as a resource to ensure the safe and fun design of the course is totally within the scope and rules of these types of projects. You can certainly mentor him on the proper way to design and install a course, but in NO WAY should he be turned loose on the design unless he is an experienced disc golfer who has already been exposed to the course design process.:hfive:

[Danger]

but in NO WAY should he be turned loose on the design unless he is an experienced disc golfer who has already been exposed to the course design process.:hfive:

I think even if he DOES have exposure, I wouldn't want a 17 year old or younger designing a course. Building a disc golf course is a HUGE undertaking for an eagle scout project. I would see it more helpful to have the scout organize a project that benefits a course that is already planned, and being installed by the local club. Like, taking care of concrete tees, or building a picnic shelter, or retaining walls....something that will aesthetically improve the course.

[Nancy Walters]

I agree with those that have encouraged you to be involved, and in a major way in designing the course. The scout will have plenty to organise in the installation of the course.

Here's an example of an excellent course that was an Eagle Scout project...
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=3541&mode=ci
Camp Collum DGC in Frankfort, IN.

[MacDaddy]

I agree that most Scouts working on an Eagle Project are not able to handle the entire scope of putting in a disc golf course. It is a huge project that is a monumental task for a 17 yr old, or any person. Doing club approved and co-opted projects like tee-pads, signs, benches and trash cans, etc. to improve a course is a great way to use Eagle Projects, and they are within the abilities of most Scouts. But if Stevie Rico had wanted to be the lead designer of a course when he was 17, I'd have let him!:hfive:

[MrHighlandPark]

I think even if he DOES have exposure, I wouldn't want a 17 year old or younger designing a course. Building a disc golf course is a HUGE undertaking for an eagle scout project. I would see it more helpful to have the scout organize a project that benefits a course that is already planned, and being installed by the local club. Like, taking care of concrete tees, or building a picnic shelter, or retaining walls....something that will aesthetically improve the course.

Great post. There are three star courses that could become four stars with upgraded teepads, signs, benches, widened fairways, etc.

Heck, there are unplayable one-two star courses that could become four stars with a major facelift.

That would be a huge service to a local community.

[seanncherie]

I just finished helping design a course with a boy scout in Baton Rouge on church property. We played on the property for months using poles and stakes and tweaked as we went along. I think we made the best use of the property that we could. Lay the course out with the scout and play it several times and listen to his feedback and get other disk golfers to come play it and give their opinion.

[vondog]

Murrieta, Ca- We have one BS designed course and one more on the way. Neither presents much of a challenge other than the fact that they are sandwiched around other park amenities that preclude use of the disc park when in use. I have contacted the city for planning info but they won't provide future info (nor would they let me know they had just greenlighted the 2nd disc golf course with no real golf knowledge).

I was a scout and understand the need for the badges, but our city seems to just let the kids run the disc golf planning and refuse to hear from the people that drive to another city than use the poor courses they sponser.

How can we stop this trend w/o looking like pompous asses?

[Steve West]

Murrieta, Ca- We have one BS designed course and one more on the way. Neither presents much of a challenge other than the fact that they are sandwiched around other park amenities that preclude use of the disc park when in use. I have contacted the city for planning info but they won't provide future info (nor would they let me know they had just greenlighted the 2nd disc golf course with no real golf knowledge).

I was a scout and understand the need for the badges, but our city seems to just let the kids run the disc golf planning and refuse to hear from the people that drive to another city than use the poor courses they sponser.

How can we stop this trend w/o looking like pompous asses?

All you can do is offer information - to the scout and to the city. If they don't accept it, build a course wherever you are driving from.

[Discette]

Murrieta, Ca- We have one BS designed course and one more on the way. Neither presents much of a challenge other than the fact that they are sandwiched around other park amenities that preclude use of the disc park when in use. I have contacted the city for planning info but they won't provide future info (nor would they let me know they had just greenlighted the 2nd disc golf course with no real golf knowledge).

I was a scout and understand the need for the badges, but our city seems to just let the kids run the disc golf planning and refuse to hear from the people that drive to another city than use the poor courses they sponser.

How can we stop this trend w/o looking like pompous asses?



I can assure you the second scout project in Murietta was well planned. Tanner Nash is the scout in charge of the Rancho Acacias Park Disc Golf Course. Tanner has already put in close to 300 hours on this project and has gone above and beyond expectations.

Tanner had an experienced local player to help with the initial design. The design was reviewed by an experienced disc golf designer and world champion for safety and playability. There were experts on site to oversee the installation work day that took place October 29. Over 25 volunteers worked together to complete all the concrete work. This included framing and pouring tee pads, installing all target sleeves and alternate pins, installing all sign posts and constructing and installing a welcome kiosk. The installation of individual signs and targets is scheduled to be completed before November 11. Tanner hopes to host a grand opening on that date.

This is a small multi-use neighborhood park. As such, during times of other organized youth activities (baseball & soccer), all the disc golf holes will not be available for play. This is not a pitch and putt course, nor is it championship caliber. It is a fun, challenging course to serve players of all abilities in the Murietta, Temecula and Lake Elsinore area.

Here is a link to the story regarding Tanner's project that was published August 12 (nearly 12 weeks prior to last week's volunteer installation).

http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/murrieta/murrieta-headlines-index/20110812-murrieta-scout-plans-disc-golf-course-for-badge.ece

[bombmk]

Maybe also have the boy scouts in question read some of the good and bad reviews on this site?

Could give them some idea about that common complaints and praises are so they get a better personal sense for what it is you are trying to accomplish together. So they might feel they have some sense of evaluating what you put forward to them.

I have little doubt you could explain why this and that would or would not work. But it would probably help them as leaders on the project to know that some of what they are signing of on is generally viewed as good ideas - based in selfgained knowledge (even if they were directed to it :) ).

[vondog]

Thanks Discette,
I was provided that clip several months after lengthy email/phone/letter communications with the city who never once mentioned that this was going on, even when repeatedly asked about ongoing/future disc golf ventures. They emphatically denied anything was going on and then we receive notice of this 2nd 9 holer.

I am in contact with many golfers in the area (which is a tough group to organize into a cohesive unit) and they have the same experience. Unless we are a member of the Boy Scouts, the city ignores us. When asked about potential land for courses the city tell us there is no money, even though we have donors ready to go.

It feels like the city is saving disc golf course building for BS merit badges only and this is not a great way to complete a project. Their goal is to get merit badges not install challenging courses and it appears that they are meeting the goal without understanding that the golf course should be the focus, not the badge.