Design Nine Around the Pond

[Countchunkula]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y375/CountchunkulaDG/Lagoon.jpg

I think that this park would make a great place to play a final nine, after a tourney at nearby Madison Meadows (if the PD allows anymore tourneys). This would be a temporary layout only. The shape of the pond lends itself well to a couple of water carries and some risky greens.

I only see enough room for 9 holes. What do you think would be the ideal layout?

[bradharris]

The temptation would be to design some sort of loop around the pond. The problem with that, though, is that means the pond is always to the same side. Go clockwise and the course is RHBH friendly, reverse it and it's LHBH friendly.

Using the water effectively and fairly for all styles is your biggest challenge.

[CwAlbino]

Easier setup
http://i52.tinypic.com/11uyjd4.jpg

Harder setup, This is the one I would choose
http://i55.tinypic.com/244qkvr.jpg

[CwAlbino]

The temptation would be to design some sort of loop around the pond. The problem with that, though, is that means the pond is always to the same side. Go clockwise and the course is RHBH friendly, reverse it and it's LHBH friendly.

Using the water effectively and fairly for all styles is your biggest challenge.

I'll comment on this real quick regarding the harder setup

Harder setup, This is the one I would choose
http://i55.tinypic.com/244qkvr.jpg

1. It's running clockwise. Starting at the square building going left/west. This shot is a typical righty hole, with trouble right. (RHBH friendly)

2. Place the pad between the trees so that righties cannot hyzer it out over the water for trouble-less drive. (neither)

3. Putting the pad almost to the road and surrounded by trees limits the shot to a straight or left to right shot through the gap. (neither, maybe slightly LHBH)

4. Late hook to the right at the end. The trees near the pad allow no hyzers at all, from either. (LHBH friendly)

5. Depending on where the pad is, you could limit the hyzer approach, or allow for it from both sides. (neither)

6. Easy enough for both parties, a hyzer from the lefty, plenty of room ro throw an anhyzer or slight turning shot from a righty. (neither)

7. Late hook to the left, righty hole. (RHBH friendly)

8. If you consider skipping off the road and possibly into the water an advantage, then it's a lefty hole. Difficult and dangerous shot for either (neither)

9. The difficult landing areas is the trouble here, not the lines. (neither)

[Countchunkula]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y375/CountchunkulaDG/Lagoon1.jpg

Here's one I came up with. Numbers are by tees. Two water carries and a few baskets near water.

[New013]

what's the coordinates of the pond so i can find it on google earth?

[Countchunkula]

what's the coordinates of the pond so i can find it on google earth?

41.903331,-88.006153

[DirtyMittenDG]

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y375/CountchunkulaDG/Lagoon1.jpg

Here's one I came up with. Numbers are by tees. Two water carries and a few baskets near water.

I like this one the best as far as overall layout. Only problem I see is that it doesn't start/end near parking lot. I would maybe start it and current hole #3, and end at current #2.

Might also want to push 8's tee up from 7's fairway to give a little more room. Otherwise, it looks like it would make a pretty cool temp course.

[New013]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JdJ7jCBChqY/Tp8t1PqCGPI/AAAAAAAAAUQ/cR6zu7ymQKI/s640/chicago%252520course.jpg

came up with that on the fly, not sure about some of the holes now that i look at it. 7 should maybe go straight across in to that open field and 9 do something else as well. it's hard to tell what trees can be thrown under and which ones are definite obstacles to go around.

one thing i noticed on google earth is the space between the side walk and the pond is not as much as you would think, definitely not enough to put baskets down in most places.

another thing i'll point out is that in yours, #1 goes straight at a parking lot, #5 goes towards the road with not a lot space between your basket placement and the road, #7 goes in to what looks like mud from google earth and some of the pics on there.

[mashnut]

I've got 4 baskets I can get my hands on if you ever want to meet up out there and try some of those different shots out. :thmbup: It's a little hard to see which trees offer low ceilings etc. from the overhead view.

[New013]

for the most part it looks like the bigger trees can be thrown under from street view

[Countchunkula]

I like this one the best as far as overall layout. Only problem I see is that it doesn't start/end near parking lot. I would maybe start it and current hole #3, and end at current #2.


:doh: Good call, I walk the dog to this park so I never thought about parking.

I've got 4 baskets I can get my hands on if you ever want to meet up out there and try some of those different shots out. :thmbup: It's a little hard to see which trees offer low ceilings etc. from the overhead view.

I've wanted to do something like this for a while. I've got 2 baskets. If we can get a few more and a few other folks, we can do park takeovers.

[mashnut]

I know a few others from the Illianasconsinigan thread who have baskets and would probably be in for something like that. I've been saying for a while that we should do some DGCR meets in forest preserves and random parks with good dg terrain with our portables.

[Countchunkula]

I know a few others from the Illianasconsinigan thread who have baskets and would probably be in for something like that. I've been saying for a while that we should do some DGCR meets in forest preserves and random parks with good dg terrain with our portables.

I've always wanted to set up a temp course at Swallow Cliff FP in Palos. That's the park where they used to have the tobbogan runs. Great elevation changes.:thmbup:

[Lewis]

When I see this I immediately want to start the round with a carry directly across the narrow part of the lake. Here's how I would let it flow from there, though it's close quarters in a few places...

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18072&d=1319065604

[Dave242]

Good thought to use this park, Countchunkula!

Here is a design that I would love to play (and it would make this the best 9-er in Chicagoland!)

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18077&stc=1&d=1319082664

The things I like about this design are:
1) Two 2-throw holes (Par-4's)
2) Several risk/reward placement holes 1, 3, 5, 9
3) Tees are paved for all but 2 short holes (2 & 7) and one long one (6)
4) A few technical placement holes that are well suited to shorter arms (2, 3, 5, 7), a few bomber holes to reward the big arms (1, 4, 5, 9), and a few medium-long holes for the medium arms (3, 6, 8, 9)
5) Trees are strategically used for more of a wooded effect (6, 7, 8). An Errant drive could easily end up with a bogey 4
6) Flow is good. Longest walk is to tee 1, and then 4B to 5T is 190'
7) Water use is not too punitive
8) It is only 10 minutes (4 miles) from where I often work

What I do not like:
1) Hole 9 could conflict with 5's tee.
2) Hole 9 uses a Mando (for safety)
3) Hole 4 comes a little too close to the playground (200' off tee)
4) Walk from 3T to 3B conflicts with hole 2
5) There are crossing fairways.....but those will only conflict in January & February :D

[Countchunkula]

Lewis, I thought about that across the water shot too. The only problem is the long walk around almost half the pond to get to the basket. You would be crossing other fairways. It would be a sweet shot, but not practical. Unless you've got a john boat or canoe.

[Countchunkula]

Your pic is not showing up dave. I'm interested in what you've come up with. Sadly, this is pure fantasy as far as a permanent course is concerned. The park is too busy with other users for a permanent couse to work. I was just thinking about creating a crazy temp course with all the water and street OB.

[Dave242]

I know a few others from the Illianasconsinigan thread who have baskets and would probably be in for something like that. I've been saying for a while that we should do some DGCR meets in forest preserves and random parks with good dg terrain with our portables.

I have 2 baskets I could bring (SkillShot and DisCatcher). I'll join in at Lagoon if we use my layout. :D

Your idea here actually would be a ton of fun if we combined it with a design session like this and did it on a semi-regular basis.

[Dave242]

Your pic is not showing up dave. I'm interested in what you've come up with. Sadly, this is pure fantasy as far as a permanent course is concerned. The park is too busy with other users for a permanent couse to work. I was just thinking about creating a crazy temp course with all the water and street OB.

Dang it - the 5 minute edit rule bit me. I was uploading the corrected picture and had just deleted the original one when the edit window must have slammed shut on me. Here it is:

Good thought to use this park, Countchunkula!

Here is a design that I would love to play (and it would make this the best 9-er in Chicagoland!)

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18080&stc=1&d=1319084139

The things I like about this design are:
1) Two 2-throw holes (Par-4's)
2) Several risk/reward placement holes 1, 3, 5, 9
3) Tees are paved for all but 2 short holes (2 & 7) and one long one (6)
4) A few technical placement holes that are well suited to shorter arms (2, 3, 5, 7), a few bomber holes to reward the big arms (1, 4, 5, 9), and a few medium-long holes for the medium arms (3, 6, 8, 9)
5) Trees are strategically used for more of a wooded effect (6, 7, 8). An Errant drive could easily end up with a bogey 4
6) Flow is good. Longest walk is to tee 1, and then 4B to 5T is 190'
7) Water use is not too punitive
8) It is only 10 minutes (4 miles) from where I often work

What I do not like:
1) Hole 9 could conflict with 5's tee.
2) Hole 9 uses a Mando (for safety)
3) Hole 4 comes a little too close to the playground (200' off tee)
4) Walk from 3T to 3B conflicts with hole 2
5) There are crossing fairways.....but those will only conflict in January & February :D

[New013]

The problem with some of the layouts is the space between the pond and sidewalk where I see baskets being placed is super small, go to the coordinates on earth and look at the pics.

[DirtyMittenDG]

Good thought to use this park, Countchunkula!

Here is a design that I would love to play (and it would make this the best 9-er in Chicagoland!)...

Are you really not worried about the crossing fairways with this layout?

[CwAlbino]

Dang it - the 5 minute edit rule bit me. I was uploading the corrected picture and had just deleted the original one when the edit window must have slammed shut on me. Here it is:

I can see 1 and 3's tee locations being dangerous. Also 9's incoming around the pond possibly getting discs coming from 4. Errant shots from 5 coming in toward 9. 8's pad so close to both 5 and 7's pins. If I was playing hole 5 in tourney, I would have to wait for people on 8 to finish driving in case I were to pass and hit them. Some people on 9 might want to play to the edge of the water as a safe shot, then throw over, making 5's errant shots much more dangerous. People on 4's fairway can be hit by upshots or drives by hole 9's throwers.


The design looks hella fun, but not safe for recreational players.

[Dave242]

Are you really not worried about the crossing fairways with this layout?

Not a bit. This is a scenario where crossing fairways work since there would never be people walking through the flight-paths (that is the problem with crossing fairways).

I can see 1 and 3's tee locations being dangerous. Also 9's incoming around the pond possibly getting discs coming from 4. Errant shots from 5 coming in toward 9. 8's pad so close to both 5 and 7's pins. If I was playing hole 5 in tourney, I would have to wait for people on 8 to finish driving in case I were to pass and hit them. Some people on 9 might want to play to the edge of the water as a safe shot, then throw over, making 5's errant shots much more dangerous. People on 4's fairway can be hit by upshots or drives by hole 9's throwers.

The design looks hella fun, but not safe for recreational players.

You are completely correct.....if this were to be a permanent layout. I also said that I shared slight reservation that 5 & 9 conflicted a small amount.

8T is pretty safe from 5's throws. 390' from 5T to basket and 460' to 8T. I put 8T behind a bush for added protection and that is one reason I decided to make path and beyond OB only on that hole. But hitting someone hard at 450' ain't going to happen.....and I think you bringing it up is your way of bragging. :D

All that aside, as was the OP pointed out it would be impossible to have a permanent course here. So, what I tried to come up with was what this thread is about:


I think that this park would make a great place to play a final nine, after a tourney at nearby Madison Meadows. This would be a temporary layout only.

I only see enough room for 9 holes. What do you think would be the ideal layout?

Since he did not specify what level of player it is for, I tried to make it fun and challenging for all levels that would be in a tournament final 9 (I am assuming the top players of each division). I tried to make holes that would provide some scoring separation.

[Countchunkula]

The problem with some of the layouts is the space between the pond and sidewalk where I see baskets being placed is super small, go to the coordinates on earth and look at the pics.

I agree most of these placements are very tight to the water. That is part of the challenge though. With the exception of Dave's layout, most of the risky greens are on relatively short holes.

We have a ton of relatively boring courses in our area and I can't think of any with a forced water carry of any significant distance. Some courses have rollaway greens, but I can't think of any close to deep water.

So I guess the opportunity to put baskets very close to the pond was part of the attraction of this park.

[Countchunkula]

I love your layout Dave, this is the kind of treacherous course that I was thinking of. Have you considered drop zones for tee shots that get wet? Or would one continue to retee?:wall:

Either way looks like a ton of fun or frustration.:thmbup:

[Brall]

Dang it - the 5 minute edit rule bit me. I was uploading the corrected picture and had just deleted the original one when the edit window must have slammed shut on me. Here it is:

pro: this has to be the very best use of space

con: very dangerous for multiple groups

"FORE!"

THUNK!

doh

[Countchunkula]

pro: this has to be the very best use of space

con: very dangerous for multiple groups

"FORE!"

THUNK!

doh

Most of the conflicts occur over the water. No one will be out there. The chances of two discs coliding are lotteryesque.

[Dave242]

The problem with some of the layouts is the space between the pond and sidewalk where I see baskets being placed is super small, go to the coordinates on earth and look at the pics.

Are you thinking sidewalks are OB (on the holes where the basket is between sidewalk and water)? If that is the case, then yes - it looks like most landing areas are only ~25'

I did not think that constraint was the case - I only specified one such hole and that was for reasons of risk/reward and safety.

BTW, Google Maps has a cool measuring tool built in. To enable it go to the options icon (little cog wheel on upper right of map). Look in Maps Lab. it sticks a little ruler icon in the lower left of your map window that you can then click to enable. Very helpful for this sort of project!

[Dave242]

I love your layout Dave, this is the kind of treacherous course that I was thinking of. Have you considered drop zones for tee shots that get wet? Or would one continue to retee?:wall:

Either way looks like a ton of fun or frustration.:thmbup:

Thanks. I had not really thought about that. As others are pointing out, this is crammed in there and I cannot think of good drop zones that would add to the playing experience that would work. Maybe it would make sense to have a re-teeing rule on those holes that have water carries in play (1, 3, 5, 9) and everywhere else you just get 1M relief if you go in the drink (normal OB rules).

From what people are saying, it is clear they have not played the 9-ers in Chicagoland. Safety and conflict with other golfers (or even other park users) rarely seems to be too important. While I would NEVER propose my layout for permanent/public use, I think it could work well as you intended. If it was not raining today, I would stop by the park and try it out at lunch!

[Countchunkula]

I've always wanted to set up a temp course at Swallow Cliff FP in Palos. That's the park where they used to have the tobbogan runs. Great elevation changes.:thmbup:

Sorry about the huge pic. This is the former tobbogan run. There are tons of trails going through these woods that would also make for nice DG holes.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dwpZ8LgtlBw/Tk1D6U7q-xI/AAAAAAAAAMo/pWA5V-v_Bl0/s1600/sc7.JPG

[John Rock]

I've got a design that would be pretty cool but I'm having a difficult time trying to get it from MSPaint to this discussion. Even DeLynn couldn't get it to work last night:confused: (she was able to make it an attachment or some such stuff, but I wasn't satisfied with that). I'd love to share but I'm stuck.

[Countchunkula]

I've got a design that would be pretty cool but I'm having a difficult time trying to get it from MSPaint to this discussion. Even DeLynn couldn't get it to work last night:confused: (she was able to make it an attachment or some such stuff, but I wasn't satisfied with that). I'd love to share but I'm stuck.

Not an expert, but I upload any pictures that I want to post to photobucket.com. Then just link from there.

Interested to see what you've come up with John.

[John Rock]

Not an expert, but I upload any pictures that I want to post to photobucket.com. Then just link from there.

Interested to see what you've come up with John.

Course design is my specialty, Computer navigation is my arch enemy.
If DeLynn can't solve my digital internet issues, maybe I can e-mail someone my lay out and they can post it here.

[Countchunkula]

Course design is my specialty, Computer navigation is my arch enemy.
If DeLynn can't solve my digital internet issues, maybe I can e-mail someone my lay out and they can post it here.

pm'd

[Dave242]

The temptation would be to design some sort of loop around the pond. The problem with that, though, is that means the pond is always to the same side. Go clockwise and the course is RHBH friendly, reverse it and it's LHBH friendly.

Using the water effectively and fairly for all styles is your biggest challenge.

Good point - I had not seen this point until now (I started out just looking at the pictures), but that is why I doubled back on both ends of the pond.