Tomahawk distance?

[Rbuzz9]

I always read disc reviews where someone says they can throw a 400-450 foot tomahawk. So sometimes when im tossing discs i'll give it a try since i have a baseball background so i'd assume that theoretically i should be able to get some decent distance at least 300'. - Nope - i probably cant get 200' with my Flick. Is there a trick to the tomahawk other than throwing an overstable disc or following through? or do you need to be 6'5" and have a laser rocket arm? or are people just lying about their distance? I dont really buy it when someone says they could only hit 200' but then tried something like an Epic and their tomahawk is now 400 feet.

[ptsawyer]

I dont think it is the disc as much as it is technique. I dont think any disc can take you from 200' to 400' in any throw, the technique needs to improve. Id give you pointers, but I cant do it, at all. 100' tops if I need to get out of a jam, that is the only time I ever use it.

I have played with someone that throws exclusively tomahawk except for putts. He could get around 300'. He wasnt huge or anything, a stocky kid probably 5' 10". He is the longest and most accurate overhand thrower I have ever seen.

[johnt1969]

I don't know how to tell you to get 300-400 feet but I can give you a little bit of information that might help you be able to figure out the best disc to throw.

Overhand shots are just like rollers and regular shots when it comes to disc stability. Assuming you're a righty. If you take a super unstable disc and throw an overhand it will turn over quickly to the left. Usually after the disc makes the full rotation it dives quickly to the ground. If you use a super stable disc it will usually still make that full turn (if you throw it hard enough) to the left but it will take longer to do so. This can result in more distance but it also requires that there be more room (no trees) because it uses more space to make the turn. Also... things can be adjusted by the angle that you release the shot.

You can use overhands for a lot of things. If you think you're going to use them a lot try to figure out the exact flight line that the discs in your bag take. You would be amazed how often you're stuck in the woods and you see the exact flight line that your *insert disc name here* will take. Pick the correct disc for that flight line and throw the overhand right through everything. Those are the types of cool shots that keep me coming back to the sport.

Now if I could just make the putt.:rolleyes:

[Rbuzz9]

Cool thanks for the advice - i can definitely see the benefit of having a good tomahawk or thumber - i think i should spend some time mastering one or two discs to see how they behave. I could see this type of shot would be very consitant due to using the same motion every time and throwing at fullspeed - like pitching fastballs - there seem to be less variables than throwing sidearm or backhand (disc angle/ nose angle / speed )

[tomschillin]

i use an X-Clone for both my thumber and my tomahawk, unfortunately my dog got a hold of it and it's got some "speed holes" in it...can't find a replacement anywhere, anybody know where to pick one up? X-Clone from discraft

[johnt1969]

i use an X-Clone for both my thumber and my tomahawk, unfortunately my dog got a hold of it and it's got some "speed holes" in it...can't find a replacement anywhere, anybody know where to pick one up? X-Clone from discraft

I've got a lightly used 150g X-Clone that I would be willing to trade if you want one that light. I traded for it a long time ago.

I've also got a couple 169g X-Clones. One is in my bag and the other is a back up (new) so I'm not actively looking to get rid of them though. But.... I could be convinced for the right price. I would probably sell anything for the right price. haha.

[sidewinding]

i use an X-Clone for both my thumber and my tomahawk, unfortunately my dog got a hold of it and it's got some "speed holes" in it...can't find a replacement anywhere, anybody know where to pick one up? X-Clone from discraft

Do you have a "PLAY IT AGAIN SPORTS" store where you live. They sell used discs. I was in a store in Dallas the other day and they had a butt load of used X-clones for only a couple bucks each.

[tomschillin]

good call on the Play It Again...i'll have to check it out

[PhattD]

There's a baseball payer in my league that has a monster overhand. I've never seen anything over 400' I've seen him hit a 220' hole with no run up and very little effort. I have also seen him reach a 270' basket that was 25' uphill with fully mature red pines at the top that he went over to drop down by the basket. By our estimate he got 270' distance and over 150' in height.

[Texconsinite]

I can get about 200 with my tomahawk, but my thumber is horrendous. I find its best to have a disc in the bag exclusively for tomahawks, since the nature of the shot (escape shot) and always slamming into the ground from on high, tends to beat up discs more than just a regular shot. ESP or Elite-Z are good plastics for such a disc, so the constant impacts dont chew them up too fast

As was mentioned before, you can adjust it by tweaking your angle of release, so to me, you can get all the tomahawks you need out of one disc. Plus its easier to control it when you only tomahawk with that disc, and learn how it is going to fly.
Discs Ive found to be good for tomahawking (ie they go the furthest)

ESP Surge
Elite Z Flash
Aerobie Epic (works better after you "tune" it straight into a couple trees)

But just about any sharp-edged driver will work.

[discinator]

I think you'll find that alot of people exaggerate their distances. I know that's hard to believe;). I average about 325 on my normal sidearm drives and I can usually come in around 200 with my tomahawk as well. I have been wondering the very same thing as far as being able to throw it far. I played a lot of baseball and have a pretty strong arm.

Where are all of the super long overhanders? We need some tips!

[iDisc]

220 feet for thumber and tomahawk

[JHern]

I'll second that. Many people way-over-exaggerate their distances. I used to as well, until I started throwing in a group of flat open soccer fields for practice and the distances were easily measured by knowing the dimensions of the fields, lines, and goal distances...I used Google Earth's ruler feature to calibrate distances on the fields, the lines, circles, etc.. I even sometimes use Google Earth and examine a disc golf course to go back and see how long a throw really was when I thought it may have been impressive. My longest throws ever made on flat ground- when the Gods were smiling on my arm and disc- are about 300 ft. Usually my max throws are around 250 ft. I know I can get more distance with time and practice, so I'm working on the mechanics now and I hope to get into the 400 ft club some day though I know it will take a good deal of time before that happens.

In any case, a Tomahawk does not fully take advantage of the wing-like features of a disc and its ability to glide through the air, and will never go as far as a backhand or standard forehand. I find claims of a 400 ft tomahawk to be highly suspicious and probably not believable. A 200 ft tomahawk is already a fairly impressive distance for that kind of throw...I know, since I've looked into it and I also have a background as a baseball pitcher.

[blang]

I use a tomahawk several times a round. I typically use it for accuracy over distance. I have three discs that I use.

1. Pro Destroyer, I turns to the left then then again to the right then will skip about 10 feet in pine needles. barrel roll with max power. 200 to 235 feet.

2. KC Pro Tee bird I do not throw max power but just enough to allow it to turn left then slide about 20 feet. 150 to 200 feet.

3. 10 meter brick. 50 to 75 feet. little power but it will not roll this is my only get out of trouble disc.

I typically know exactly where it is going to land with the disc I am going to use, so if I happen to be that far away from the basket, then I use that throw. The only throws in which I have been in contention for CTPs in tournaments are with these throws.

Even if I could throw a 350 hawk, I would not do it off every tee every throw for the same reason a baseball pitcher would not throw a complete game every day. It will wear you out much faster than a backhand or side arm throw for the same distance. Also a distance hawk needs room up north and south and east and west when thrown for max distance.

Also, of all the discs that I have used for a Hawk, I could get the most distance out of the Epic. The only problem is that it is no where need as consistent and tends to hit sideways a take a random bounce. I will sacrifice 30 to 45 feet for the knowledge that my disc will land in the same place every time.

[YonderScott]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZQbxrr1v8

[Rbuzz9]

yesterday i threw all of my discs thumber and t-hawk - all were about 200' -- nothing impressive - i have a good arm - i dont buy anyone throwing 400' overhand- i saw the way the discs behaved and they barely took advantage of the disc's floating ability. Tho the discs did go very straight. will keep that in mind- good tool to have i suppose.

[Donovan]

yesterday i threw all of my discs thumber and t-hawk - all were about 200' -- nothing impressive - i have a good arm - i dont buy anyone throwing 400' overhand- i saw the way the discs behaved and they barely took advantage of the disc's floating ability. Tho the discs did go very straight. will keep that in mind- good tool to have i suppose.

I have seen 300 plus in person (not me). So I believe 400 is very possible.

[SunIsBlue15]

When I first started playing I only threw tomahawk because it was the only way I could keep up with my brother (who had been playing for a couple years). I have a baseball background so throwing the disc tomahawk style came pretty naturally for me. I barely throw t-hawk anymore because it kills my arm, but this thread and the video above got me curious about my distance. So I went to my local course today and threw about 10 thumbers (I'd never tried it like that, but really liked it the first time I tried it today). My measuring wasn't completely exact, but I would say I averaged around 300+ feet per throw. I throw my original Innova Eagle KC Pro that's super beat up. I've had it since I started playing, about 7 years ago.

[gwillim]

I have some friends in SoCal that I have seen overhand discs in the mid 300s.

Dave Vincent can hit 330+. I've seen Kyle Crabtree throw overhand 350+. Neither of these guys are huge. They are both just about average build and average height.

With an Epic it is possible to get another 100' on your thumber if you do it right. If you haven't seen someone thumb an Epic correctly, then it's hard to believe / understand, but it's true. There's even an amateur golfer (not sure if he's still am or pro) named Ken Herrod that I've seen come overhand an epic well over 350'.

I think 400' is totally possible, and I might have witnessed a few in the past. Didn't seem like such a big deal at the time. Now I live in Portland, Oregon, and I don't think anyone up here can throw a thumber over 300'?!

Personally, I only throw overhand shots very short distances to get out of the shule. I kind of like my shoulder in tact, and a full power thumber is REALLY bad for your shoulder if you don't do it perfectly. Even then, it's still not good for it. I can throw a grenade shot up to 250' which will get me over any obstacles that I would previously need an overhand shot for. And it's more fun than an overhand shot too!

[Rbuzz9]

most people probably dont play catch with a baseball or football before hitting the course. Trying that long distance overhand probably isnt the best idea for your shouldner unless you've warmed up. Warming up would definitely add distance to anyone's throw. You never see a relief pitcher start pitching in the game if he's cold. They wont throw hard enough, be as accurate , and more importantly a higher risk to doing some real damage without a proper warm up.

[SunIsBlue15]

Yeah I 100% agree with that. Before my first t-hawk or thumber I'll stretch my arm out and practice the motion full speed for about 3-5 minutes. Even with that warm-up, it still usually kills my arm on the first throw. After the first throw I'm usually good to go, though. Either way, I try to avoid throwing overhead now to save my arm.

[Rbuzz9]

ill gladly play catch for 5-10 mins before softball/baseball games by the end i'm throwing at full speed - but i'll do virtually zero before tossing a disc overhand. - Should really do some more. the 3-5 min practice is probably good for starters. I should probably just use overhand for either everyshot or just a seldom get out of trouble shot.

[iDisc]

i throw thumbers around 220ft with a z tracker

[Ryan P.]

unless someone is using an epic, i'd agree that 400' plus is a stretch. i don't think it's impossible by any means, but if someone can throw 400' anywhere near consistently with a throw as accurate as a hammer/thumber, then i better be hearing about their tournament results before i believe. Also, i remember seeing a youtube vid with some pros throwing those, and they weren't even hitting 400'. so it seems like a real stretch. but i do think it's possible. If anyone has ever thrown an aerobie catch disc hammer/thumber style, then they know that it holds it's upside down position for a while and glides that way. if aerobie-or anyone for that matter, made a disc like that for disc golf, and tweaked a little to be good at throwing a hammer/thumber for distance, i think that would make a great driving disc that would make it much more realistic to be hitting 400'. as of right now though, that's tough stuff.

[alteredpov]

I know I can throw my overhand just over 200 ft. But I have a friend I always play with who can hit 300 and then his disc takes what seems to be a physically impossible roll that can go anywhere from 5 to 50 ft. So I can totally beileve someone getting it 400+ feet... Dudes got a big arm but I can totally believe those claims

[SunIsBlue15]

Yeah that's a good point...for some reason I tend to get some great rolls. And the nice thing is the disc usually never rolls off to either side -- it typically will just roll straight ahead, which is nice.

[Lewis]

I can throw my overhand around 200' or so, and I use it for my long approach shots every chance I get. I wouldn't be surprised if the "big arms" could get around 300' or so. The only down side for the overhand, in my opinion, is that it's hard to throw it under overhanging tree branches. I do, however, love to use this throw in the woods among tall tree trunks, since it shows a much smaller profile to the trees.

I must add that I take a different approach to the overhand than I see people in this thread or on youtube describe. I usually choose a stable (flat flying) disc, and throw it slightly underside up, from directly over my head, rather like you'd throw a hammer in ultimate. At this angle, with the right altitude and finesse, it will sweep slowly from the left to the right as it turns upside down and loses altitude, landing just as it comes fully upside down, or just before. Depending on the terrain, it will either stop nearly dead (uphill or on wet grass), or give me a nice scooby-style slide (downhill or on a dry surface). I do have to be careful throwing this into a hill that slopes downhill to my left, since missing my angle will cause the disc to roll off sharply downhill, away from my target. I find I get the most accuracy throwing it so it lands just as it comes upside down, and this doesn't seem to cost me any distance.

[martinb]

:) alright, some posts here skeptical about a 400' overhead throw. i know three people who can throw a tomahawk that far. not a thumber, but with the fingers on the inside of the rim. two of them use firebirds and one of them switches around with different discs. they CAN'T throw that far into a headwind, they CAN'T throw that far uphill. conditions have to be right to rip it that far. not a lot of people can do it. even with the right technique you have to have certain physical capabilities, long arms, tall body, being young, etc...to throw that far. it can be done.
and on hilly or mountainous courses that throw can help your game lots!! all pro players have an overhead shot, some not so big but still part of their game.

[dobbins66]

I know a couple new guys that can get a Tomahawk to the 400 ft range but only with an Epic, They are brothers who both have a baseball background and they can really get crazy movement out of the Epics. But the other poster is correct that it can only be used in perfect conditions as far as obstacles go because it takes a lot of room to maneuver.

I can not get a Tomahawk to work for me at all but I love the thumbers, My Max distance is close to (but not over) 300'. The three best discs I've found are the Banshee(most consistent flight pattern), Firebird (a little longer) and the Whippet (maximum height and distance). I have two thumber aces, both one the same hole (~270) with the same Banshee. It dropped straight in both times. I've also bounced quite a few off the tops of baskets.

[JR Stengele]

I used an old beast and it is very consistant for my tomahawks. I can't throw thumbers very far though becasue as I release I always feel as if it is going to slip out.

[soladeos]

i have found i like overhand shots for getting up open hills.

my 2 local courses has holes on the short side but with killer slopes up. i overhand tommie/thumber depending where the obstacles are hemming in the fairway so the disc slides away.

[taxman]

for the guy looking for an X-clone i have one that i don't use and would trade. it is in great shape for it's age. it does have a lot of ink on it. i found it on a course and it looks like different people all wrote there name and digits on it but each person blacked out the others name. so now i have a disc with big black permanent marker squares. it's yours if you want it.

[dela]

I find it depends a lot on whether you are throwing a two-finger, or a thumber. The two finger will start hard right and then finish straight to left. The thumber will do the opposite.

I'm a big fan of using a champion firebird for overhand. Very reliable, and has good distance. I throw a 171g 11 Timer Champion. I can get about 250 absolute max so far on it with a thumber, if I don't need to put it over a bunch of trees. If I have to arch it over, it'll slam hard down. If I throw it level, it'll generally land flat on its flight plate and skip another 20-30 feet. Very valuable. But, I don't really like it for all of my two-finger shots. I find it will go right hard, but won't come back to the left radically enough for me. For two finger shots, I usually use an ESP Predator. I play on a course thats known for narrow, wooded and long holes (400 feet). While 200-250 may not seem like a lot and may not look pretty, the increase in accuracy will lower your score.
As far as technique, I used to play baseball as well so it feels natural for me.
A few tips:
1.) Find a decently fast (Speed 9 and up) overstable disc, with a rim that feels comfortable in your hand. This is key. A proper grip gives you the control you need. This is why I love the Firebird: Compared to its overstability, it probably has the narrowist rim.
2.) Weight: I'd recommend using the heaviest you can throw without it feeling like its going to rip off your arm. This keeps it more stable, and in a cross wind, the flight plate will be perpendicular to it, you want something that can handle the wind. A light 160 will good, but you have to be very careful. Also, too light of a disc can cause your arm to fatigue much quicker. If you've ever played baseball with a tennis ball, its the same effect.
3.) Throwing motion: For consistency, and stamina, I would recommend having a very over-the-top throwing motion. The 3/4 motion should only be used when the path directly over your head is covered (throwing out of trouble, etc). The more over-the-top you throw, the more you'll use your shoulder as opposed to your elbow. Shoulders have a lot more stamina than elbows. Start with the disc low, and your non-throwing elbow high. As you are hitting your release point, pull that elbow down hard, and this will help increase your arm speed and accuracy. Follow through. Also, on a fairway, don't short change yourself just standing at your disc. You are allowed to run up, provided that your foot plants at your disc when you release it. Do a couple of mock up runs, as timing is critical (kinda like bowling footwork). I always imagine I'm playing center field, and I've gotta catch the ball and throw out the tagging up runner at the plate. Practice a good crow hop. When playing the outfield, you can time it so that your catch and throw is all in one motion. The more body you get into your throw, the farther you'll get it, and the less wear and tear you'll put on your precious shoulder or elbow.

[discinvan]

I always here that you should use a more overstable disc for overhand shots I have been practicing tommies and thumbers on the course alot lately and for tommys I get the best results with my Monarch. The more overstable disc I don't have the arm to get the full rotation out of the disc. I can get the monarch to go about 230 -250. After practicing the overhand shot for a few days I can barely move my arm now. I really should warm up more and try so many ud's in one day.

[Lewis]

In my experience, a disc's behavior in the tomahawk throw is not predictable according to its stability. For example, I find that both the Sidewinder (understable) and the Orc (stable) love to turn "under" quickly, while the Wraith (stable) and the Coyote (understable) both have a more flat tomahawk curve. It seems to be something else entirely that determines the discs' tomahawk performance. But maybe I'm crazy.

[discinvan]

I always here that you should use a more overstable disc for overhand shots I have been practicing tommies and thumbers on the course alot lately and for tommys I get the best results with my Monarch. The more overstable disc I don't have the arm to get the full rotation out of the disc. I can get the monarch to go about 230 -250. After practicing the overhand shot for a few days I can barely move my arm now. I really should warm up more and try so many ud's in one day.

now three weeks later and all the soreness had finally gone. Time to start practicing again.:eek: ouch.

[seadoc]

I'm still working out my tommy-monarch technique & distance but...

the other day I discovered my champ aviar p&a (thanks, Brian!) makes a nice consistent 120' tomahawk shot. It goes up, rolls over and drops like a bomb on its top. The most predictable one I've found out of my 6 discs :p

[cc0049]

I throw the thumber a few times on most rounds. It is a very consistent and predictable throw. I haven't yet figured out how to get consistency and distance from the tomahawk throw.
For thumbers I throw a Star Monster (maxes out around 300ft), a Pro Firebird (maxes out around 270ft), and occasionally a FLX Predator (can reach 300ft also).
The Epic CAN reach 400ft plus as a thumber. If you give it some height on the throw it will barrell roll a full rotation to the right before flattening out and then gliding from there. It is really cool to watch. It almost doesn't seem like it should be legal.

[Donovan]

I've seen cc0049 throw a thumber. SO for those of you who still doubt it can't be throw all that far...I can confirm it can go over 400 plus feet.

I believe Joshua1972 has also throw a 400 plus foot tomahawk.

So keep practicing...maybe someday I will get mine 150. :p

[thatguy]

There's guy that plays for team disc craft that is almost an exclusive tomahawk thrower, he throws over 400' with it

[_.-Dut-._]

I can't throw a tomahawk for distance, I can however throw a 300' thumber, and use a 171g Z Predator to do so.

[DWill]

There's guy that plays for team disc craft that is almost an exclusive tomahawk thrower, he throws over 400' with it

Brian Schweberger of Team Innova is another excellent thumber/tomahawk thrower with great distance.




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[JeffThroW]

You need a Z-flick,thumbers go farther usually then tommys,tomahawks you must tilt somewhat over your head to create left turn,Thumbers are more like throwin a baseball make a fist keep it clinched stick your thumb out grip tightly with thumb take three giant steps and throw the heck outta it,:cool:

[Fore]

There's guy that plays for team disc craft that is almost an exclusive tomahawk thrower, he throws over 400' with it

That would be Monty Koz. His bio along with the Discraft overhead video can be found at http://www.discraft.com/team_koz.html

[Mark R]

Cleared the water at Oceanside with Thumbers (about 330' max). My tomahawks max out at 300'. 172 firebird.

[thatguy]

I can't even throw a tomahawk 100'!

[landwhale07]

I use t predominantly throw the "hammer" but have changed to sidearm an backhand. I can throw 300 with ease and 360 with some juice. It's all in how you flick your hand, there's different amounts of spin on the disc allow it to float be4 it helix's. Also, the angle of the disc is very important. if you'e notperfectly vertical it's going to cut faster or slower, taking away distance. I throw a Flick a throw it high and let it work from there. I played college baseball so I'm sure tht ffects it but I'm sure anyone can throw 300 with some help.

[t i m]

Yeah, Monty's stats on Discraft's page mention 400'+ thumbers with a 172-174g Z-Flick. He also recommends a 174g Z-Reaper as the most accurate thumber disc that Discraft makes. So if anyone is wanting to try the Discraft options, there's the advice from the pro.

From my experience and talking with and reading posts from various other pros, I'd say on the Innova side of things, Banshees and Whippets are the best thumber/hawk discs they produce. Don't worry about the speed ratings being lower -- these are the best discs flying upside down.

I've never been able to throw thumbers, but I really like tomahawks (also called hammers). I prefer the Banshee -- very predictable for me. I used to throw them on 300' open holes for accuracy. My old roommate used to throw them 30-50' farther than that -- which is some of the best distance I've seen on a tomahawk/hammer throw.

I think thumbers have the potential to go farther than tomahawk/hammer shots -- you just have more grip on the disc and more potential spin. Virtually every player I've seen with a nasty thumber has a long history of playing baseball, often even pitchers. Baseball seems to be the best background for building up the right form and muscles for a thumber shot.

However, if you don't have a baseball background, be careful (even if you do, be careful). Thumber and tomahawk throws are hard on the joints in the arm, even when done correctly. Throwing a lot of hammer/thumber shots is likely to shorten your longevity as a disc golf player. Which is why I pretty much only use them to get out of trouble, not off the tee -- not worth hurting the arm trying to throw a max-D upside down shot.

I find tomahawks less stressful on the arm than thumbers. But again, they don't go as far. So get a whippet/banshee (doesn't matter what plastic or run, really -- they all work better than most faster discs), or a reaper/flick, and try a few for ACCURACY -- not for distance.

If you don't have a whippet/banshee and want to try what is in your bag already, Firebirds work pretty well; Orcs are the best hammer discs out of the higher-speed drivers I've tried.

[biscoe]

i've never been able to throw the thumber nearly as far as the tomahawk although i understand that in theory i should be able to due to more spin, it just doesn't leave my hand as cleanly. years ago i could throw the tomahawk 300 but age and a couple of bouts of tendinitis and decreased play in general leave me struggling for 250 at this point.