Rule on Post Tee-off stance

[tomjulio]

Ok, I have only been playing for four months but am addicted completely, and from what I have been told, am pretty good for only just beginning. So learning to play within the rules "completely" is what I am focusing on now, and I have read the rules many times.

The question: After the tee-off and on subsequent throws, excluding the putt(within 10m), I have seen and heard many diff things. I have learned, and been doing, that you could do a run up(Xstep in my case) to your marker as long as when you released you have one support(what I interpret as a foot) at least 30cm(12 inches) behind the marker and in line....but the more I play I see people just stand behind their marker and throw. I also remember reading somewhere that you could run up as long as the disc is released within that 30cm distance.

What's the actual rule? And how do people play these shots?
thanks

[Innovadude]

Not at LEAST, but NO MORE than 30cm (or whatever the cm rule is i think its like 11.5").
You don't have to take a run-up to your lie, that's always up to you.
And, your supporting point was written as 'supporting point' because it does not mean just foot, or it'd say that. It can be your hand, your ear, whatever you like.

[Three Putt]

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off

A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in 803.04 E); and,
(2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
(3) have all of his or her supporting points in-bounds.

B. Stepping past the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when putting within 10 meters.

C. Any throw from within 10 meters or less, as measured from the rear of the marker disc to the base of the hole, is considered a putt. A follow-through after a putt that causes the thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation . The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

D. A player must choose the stance that will result in the least movement of any part of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course.

E. If a large solid obstacle prevents a player from taking a legal stance within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc, the player shall take his or her stance immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play. The player must comply with all the provisions of 803.04 A other than being within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc.

F. A stance violation must be clearly called within three seconds after the infraction to be valid. The call may be made by any member of the group or an official. When the call is made by a member of the group, it must subsequently be confirmed by another member of the group. A player shall receive a warning for the first violation of a stance rule in the round. Subsequent violations of a stance rule in the same round shall incur a one-throw penalty.

G. Any throw that involves a validly called and seconded stance violation may not be used by the thrower. Re-throws must be taken from the original lie, prior to subsequent play by others in the group.

H. The player may not retrieve the originally thrown disc prior to the re-throw, except in the case of a putt from within 10 meters. Where a disc is retrieved in violation of this rule, a one throw penalty shall be imposed without a warning.

[tomjulio]

thanks for reposting the rules(I think), but like I said i have read the rules a few times.

I guess my questioning comes from the interpretation of "supporting point". So as long as a run up is ok and I am with 30cm of the back of the marker I am still good to go. I just rarely see anyone doing a run up in the fairway.

[Three Putt]

Supporting point could be anything you are using to support yourself, but really 99.999% of the time it is your foot or a knee. I know I've used my non-throwing arm as my support point before, but that is the only other part of my body I have used. I might try throwing from my ear, as I couldn't throw any worse from there.

The run-up is definitely OK, you just have to make sure your foot, er, sorry "supporting point" is in line with the shot and not off to the side. I'm not sure why you are not seeing it done very often.

[tomjulio]

thanks, that does help.

Yeah, it puzzles me. I play the tough Michigan courses where 805ft through a tight woods is a par four if not a par three. As a "beginner" I watch everything and I see people on the second or third shot just make a firm stance behind their mark and throw. I start to question if I am the one doing the wrong thing. I throw 350+ tee shot, then do the same second shot. I guess I am the one taking advantage of what is allowed.

[ERicJ]

I start to question if I am the one doing the wrong thing. I throw 350+ tee shot, then do the same second shot. I guess I am the one taking advantage of what is allowed.
Completely legal.

ERic

[JR Stengele]

That rule confused me too so thanks for clarifying.

[nygfaninva]

I was reading this and also new (A few months with no Tourneys under my belt) and I am confused....After your tee shot, you walk up to the place where the disc landed....are you allowed to place your foot near the disc and stretch forward from it (as I've seen players do) or must you throw from absolutely behind the fallen disc with your second shot? That also begs the question on putting....Again, I've seen players stretch from the place of there disc landing and putt with a stretch or is only legal from BEHIND where the disc landed?

I've seen it played various ways and just want to know which is correct....

[magictenor1]

Putting is different from other shots. On a regular shot you can fall forward after you release your shot and it is not where the disc is but where your foot (or supporting point) is. So you can stretch forward or runup to your shot. On a putt same rules but you can't fall forward. You can stretch toward the basket.

[Rbuzz9]

Do you always have to mark with a mini? or can you keep your previous shots disc there until you throw your next shot? Can you mark with a regular disc (a putter) ?

[DWill]

Do you always have to mark with a mini? or can you keep your previous shots disc there until you throw your next shot? Can you mark with a regular disc (a putter) ?

No, you don't always have to mark with a mini, just keep your previous thrown disc in place (do not pick it up or flip it over, etc) and use that as your marker.

I believe there is a maximum size diameter that your mini marker can't exceed, which I think a regular golf disc is too big for, the only exception being the previous thrown disc rule, as mentioned before.

Edit: Found the following rule:
802.02 Mini Marker Discs
A. Mini marker discs shall be used to mark a player’s lie as required by these rules. Mini marker discs must have a diameter of between 7 and 15 centimeters and a height not exceeding 3 centimeters.

[tomjulio]

Really? No flipping your disc over(forward) as the marker?

[nygfaninva]

So if your not going to do a run up on the second shot, keeping your plant foot with the marker/disc you can stretch forward and throw? And the same for a putt?

[magictenor1]

The rules listed about minis are primarily for tournaments. For casual play most people I know just flip their disc over or leave it there. I usually set my bag down and stand behind it. For casual play as long as you mark your lie in some way you should be fine. I have only played in one tourney and didn't use a mini then either but it was a very casual laid back local tourney. I don't even own a mini. If you are in a tourney be careful and ask the director if uncertain.

[magictenor1]

NYG,yes. Only difference is on the putt you can't fall forward and on the regular shot you can. Not too long ago I played with some guys in TENN and A guy had a long putt. He asked the group if we thought it was further than 10 meters (official putting distance) and then since it was technically not a putt he did a type of jump putt where he lunged toward the hole as he threw.

[ghova]

So if your not going to do a run up on the second shot, keeping your plant foot with the marker/disc you can stretch forward and throw? And the same for a putt?

(2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc

if i understand this correctly it means you cant stretch towards the hole and that your lead foot has to be behind the disc. I also believe this means that you cant even reach out and support yourself on a tree in front of your disc. you can release your disc from in front of the disc though

[CBass]

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that it depends on where your foot is when you release your disc, not where the disc is when it comes out of your hand.

[nygfaninva]

Just want to be sure. So if ghova is right, as long as my rear foot is touching the back of my marker/disc I can lean forward and throw (my body and throwing arm being in front of said marker/disc as long as my rear foot is planted behind the marker/disc).

[PhattD]

Front foot nygfaninva. If you put your foot right behind your mini you can't support yourself with anything that is closer to the basket than that. Does that make sense?

[nygfaninva]

Yeah, so your front foot has to be behind the marker/disc. But can your throwing hand and arm reach out over it as long as your front foot is behind the marker/disc? Not supported on anything, just out there ahead of the marker/disc, as long as your front foot stays behind it?

And this applies to all throws, not just Putts, right?

[discinator]

My understanding is that whatever you place behind the disc as a supporting point must be inline with the basket behind the disc. All other points of contact must be no closer to the basket than your point behind the marker. I guess in laymans terms this means as long as your foot( or hand, whatever) is within 30 cm of the marker and inline with the basket, then you can lean out/ stretchout, etc as long as when you lean out you aren't leaning closer to the basket than your marker.

[garublador]

None of your supporting points can be closer to the basket than the back of your marker. One of your supporting points must be within 30cm of the back of the marker (not touching the marker) and in-line with the marker and basket. There is no rule as to where the disc has to be except that you have to throw it yourself.

[JR Stengele]

You can lean over but not hang on to anything.

[magictenor1]

You can lean or stretch as far as you can but if you are putting you can't fall forward. As JR said you can't support yourself on anthything because then that would be a supporting point beyond your marker.Discinator is incorrect, You can be closer to the basket then your marker when you lean or stretch as long as your foot is behind the marker.

[ERicJ]

You can lean over but not hang on to anything.
Not true. You are allowed to hang on to objects behind your lie that are inbounds. See the Rules Q&A section. http://pdga.com/rules/qa.php

Rule Question: Maintaining balance while putting

Question"I have a good rules question for you involving the stance rules. A player uses an object (in this case a branch) behind him to maintain balance for a putt. First, would this be considered "full control of balance"? Second, could you argue, if the branch is not so large that the players body weight will not move it, that it is a violation of 803.03 D and or 803.04 A because they could have moved the branch less by not hanging on it? Thanks for any input."

Response
The question can be boiled down to: Can a player hold on to an object behind his lie to maintain balance while throwing/putting?

Applicable rules:


803.04 (Stance)
803.05 (Obstacles and Relief)
804.05 (Disqualification and Suspension)

Discussion:

The rules do not require that you maintain your balance while putting. You can have a grand mal seizure as long as you don't step ahead of your lie. At the time you decide to step ahead of your lie is when you have to demonstrate balance. This is simply to prove that you are not committing a falling putt, such that you would not be able to stop yourself from falling forward due to the motion of your putt. Grabbing a branch is merely acquiring another support point, which is perfectly legal, as long as it is not ahead of your lie.

Holding on to something BEHIND your lie is not prohibited by the rules, provided that the tree that the golfer is using as a supporting point is in-bounds (803.03.A (3)).

The branch must not be moved, or else the player would be in violation of one or both of 803.04.D and 803.05.A, which require you to take the stance that results in the least movement of objects that are part of the course and which prohibit you from moving a branch to "make room for a throwing motion".

Conclusion:

A player can hold on to something behind her lie, in certain circumstances, without violating the PDGA rules. In general that which is not prohibited by the PDGA rules is allowed, provided of course, that the action done by the player is not considered "a willful attempt to circumvent the rules of play". (This, of course, is cheating!)

Other Comments:

Many members of the committee have actually tried to hold on to some object behind their lie, while leaning forward to throw or putt. In our opinion this action makes the ensuing throw/putt MORE difficult to accomplish.

The PDGA Rules Committee

[iDisc]

there is rule on the tee off? i knew there was a rule with a mini but tee off stance?

[discinator]

Discinator is incorrect, You can be closer to the basket then your marker when you lean or stretch as long as your foot is behind the marker.

I was referring to leaning and stretching to the sides around objects. Like when you need to putt around a tree and stretch from your marker so you can get a better line. In this instance as long as your second point of contact isn't closer to the basket you are good. Obviously you can lean forward as long as you don't have another point of contact ahead of the marker.

[magictenor1]

Sorry I misunderstood your post.