Course Density by State: Complete Stats

[Luke@DiscTrips]

On another thread we were juggling discussions about both course density and course quality (two very different things!) by state, so I thought I'd start a new thread focusing just on the less-exciting but more quantifiable one: course density.

Two factors here, equally weighted in the rankings:

A) Square Miles per Course, or, put another way "Lowest Mileage On Your Car." Based on the state's physical size.
B) People per Course, or, put another way, "Lowest Wait-Time At The Tee." Based on the state's population.

Inputs: State Square Mileage, State Population, State Course Count.

I can also post portions of the two separate rankings (size only, and population only) if anyone's interested. (I'm kind of a spreadsheet geek)

Enjoy...

1. IOWA (178 sq. mi./course, 22,134 people/course)
2. WISCONSIN (417 sq. mi./course, 41,803 people/course)
3. DELAWARE (482 sq. mi./course, 78,615 people/course)
4. MINNESOTA (489 sq. mi./course, 41,251 people/course)
5. ILLINOIS (499 sq. mi./course, 110,798 people/course)
6. KANSAS (504 sq. mi./course, 38,027 people/course)
7. OHIO (621 sq. mi./course, 123,300 people/course)
8. VERMONT (640 sq. mi./course, 56,478 people/course)
9. KENTUCKY (650 sq. mi./course, 80,028 people/course)
10. INDIANA (671 sq. mi./course, 113,309 people/course)
11. NORTH CAROLINA (690 sq. mi./course, 116,167 people/course)
12. COLORADO (690 sq. mi./course, 56,529 people/course)
13. MAINE (730 sq. mi./course, 52,688 people/course)
14. MICHIGAN (762 sq. mi./course, 99,721 people/course)
15. SOUTH DAKOTA (773 sq. mi./course, 23,418 people/course)
16. SOUTH CAROLINA (842 sq. mi./course, 115,992 people/course)
17. PENNSYLVANIA (874 sq. mi./course, 172,678 people/course)
18. NORTH DAKOTA (959 sq. mi./course, 26,655 people/course)
19. NEBRASKA (972 sq. mi./course, 44,364 people/course)
20. OKLAHOMA (1,003 sq. mi./course, 78,637 people/course)
21. OREGON (1,096 sq. mi./course, 65,745 people/course)
22. MISSISSIPPI (1,127 sq. mi./course, 85,847 people/course)
23. MONTANA (1,210 sq. mi./course, 34,209 people/course)
24. IDAHO (1,250 sq. mi./course, 48,368 people/course)
25. CONNECTICUT (1,336 sq. mi./course, 318,392 people/course)
26. TENNESSEE (1,351 sq. mi./course, 146,589 people/course)
27. WYOMING (1,415 sq. mi./course, 34,855 people/course)
28. VIRGINIA (1,425 sq. mi./course, 175,275 people/course)
29. MASSACHUSETTS (1,472 sq. mi./course, 379,397 people/course)
30. MARYLAND (1,520 sq. mi./course, 330,491 people/course)
31. MISSOURI (1,584 sq. mi./course, 133,600 people/course)
32. NEW JERSEY (1,628 sq. mi./course, 668,148 people/course)
33. ALASKA (1,726 sq. mi./course, 48,820 people/course)
34. WEST VIRGINIA (1,731 sq. mi./course, 129,431 people/course)
35. TEXAS (1,739 sq. mi./course, 144,875 people/course)
36. NEW HAMPSHIRE (1,934 sq. mi./course, 187,975 people/course)
37. FLORIDA (2,097 sq. mi./course, 304,187 people/course)
38. GEORGIA (2,268 sq. mi./course, 216,926 people/course)
39. RHODE ISLAND (2,696 sq. mi./course, 528,916 people/course)
40. NEW MEXICO (2,733 sq. mi./course, 85,648 people/course)
41. CALIFORNIA (2,946 sq. mi./course, 279,032 people/course)
42. WASHINGTON (2,955 sq. mi./course, 157,766 people/course)
43. ARKANSAS (3,050 sq. mi./course, 157,489 people/course)
44. ALABAMA (4,750 sq. mi./course, 185,114 people/course)
45. NEW YORK (5,252 sq. mi./course, 521,560 people/course)
46. UTAH (5,287 sq. mi./course, 165,333 people/course)
47. LOUISIANA (5,307 sq. mi./course, 252,541 people/course)
48. ARIZONA (6,521 sq. mi./course, 264,115 people/course)
49. HAWAII (15,795 sq. mi./course, 320,847 people/course)
50. NEVADA (46,888 sq. mi./course, 366,483 people/course)

(disclaimer: Once again, this is NOT reflective of course quality!)
.

[PA_Disc]

Neat list, but I think your #'s may be off a bit for PA.

From 2006 Census
Population: 12,440,000 +/-
Area Sq/Mi: 44,816
Courses listed on DGCoursereview for PA: 72

Your people per course is correct.
Courses per SqMi.--> 622

[DGtourist]

Good stuff, thanks for sharing.

[Luke@DiscTrips]

Neat list, but I think your #'s may be off a bit for PA.

From 2006 Census
Population: 12,440,000 +/-
Area Sq/Mi: 44,816
Courses listed on DGCoursereview for PA: 72

Your people per course is correct.
Courses per SqMi.--> 622

I went with total square mileage per state (PA=46,058), and your number is land mass (not counting water) per state. Yours is arguably a better choice, but it's gonna be a pretty negligible difference when every state is treated the same way. (Plus, courses themselves are often part-land, part-water, right?) :)

One other way to look at it in support of total sq.mi.: Think about driving past a lake to get to a course... the more water there is in a state, the less space there is for courses (which should be reflected in these stats).

Nice catch, though -- thanks.

[ZMan44]

I look at spreadsheets everyday for hours on end....this is the single greatest use of a spreadsheet ever!

[Adam Schneider]

Wow, Iowa's in a league of its own, isn't it?

The big Western states can be a little misleading, of course; here in Oregon, for example, all but 2 of the 90 courses are in the western half, so if you lopped off the empty eastern desert, our ranking would jump into the top ten. If you only considered the western THIRD, it'd be in the top five!

[JR Stengele]

I am shocked to see that Washington is not lower. tO think that it is just below CA. is crazy. Wish I was in Iowa right now. = )

[Donovan]

Thanks man, that was really cool to look at. :cool:

[edge3281]

Thanks for the list! I didn't realize my state of Indiana would be in the top 10.

[timg]

Wow.. NY is pretty low on the list. I guess living in Rochester has it's good points with 9 courses within 25 miles of my house.

[PhattD]

I was looking forward to weeks of "my state is better because we have better courses." "No my state is better because you're a jerk'" And you went and ruined it with your science and logic and stuff.

And why does Iowa have so many more courses than the states around it?

[Texconsinite]

And why does Iowa have so many more courses than the states around it?

Two reasons

1)Lots of open space

2)Nothing else to do

Wish I was in Iowa right now. = )

Wow. I never thought I would hear someone say that.

[Three Putt]

The damn shame about Iowa is, once we DO figure out how to rate by quality they are going to be right up there in the top 10. Good courses. Lots of courses. Lots of GOOD courses.

Of course, very few people outside of Iowa know this because you have to go to Iowa to find this out. I like disc golf and all, but willingly spending my free time in Iowa is over the line!

[Donovan]

I'm sorry, but wasn't it "Field of Dreams" that stated this best:

Is this Heaven?
No, it's Iowa!

[garublador]

Two reasons

1)Lots of open space

2)Nothing else to do
Actually, a lot of it also has to do with the parks departments having a history of encouraging outdoor activities, as well. I'm not all that familiar with all of the states, but I know outdoor activities like hunting, fishing and biking are popular in IA, WI, MN, KY, IN, IL, KA, and OH. I'd guess the same is true for the Southeastern states that people mention as being good disc golf states as well. It's a lot easier to get land and money allocated when the residents and government are already in the mindset to find ecological and fun ways for pepole to use the space. Plus, any of the land that's being used as conservation for the sake of conservation (not that that's a bad thing) is prarie land and not horribly condusive to disc golf. No one is fighting to keep the prime disc golf land 100% pristine.

I'd guess that most regions you find that have a really good disc golf scene will have a lot of those same charictaristics.

Of course, very few people outside of Iowa know this because you have to go to Iowa to find this out. I like disc golf and all, but willingly spending my free time in Iowa is over the line! Is it bad when the best reason to visit is a fringe sport? OK, farming and a fringe sport. ;)

Actually, Des Moines has gotten to the point where if you have some other good reason to be here, your off time won't be completely miserable. People just don't think to come here because you can go to Kansas City or MPLS/St. Paul and get at least as many good courses and there's a lot more to do. In Iowa, though you can live in just about any small town and not be too far from an OK course.

[PhattD]

Two reasons

1)Lots of open space

2)Nothing else to do



How is this different from Kansas, Nebraska, or the Dakotas? Especially North Dakota Their state tree is the telephone pole.

[Disc_Pro]

^^ !!

[PA_Disc]

How is this different from Kansas, Nebraska, or the Dakotas? Especially North Dakota Their state tree is the telephone pole.

There is more cattle raised in KS, NE and the Dakotas, therefore cowtipping is a popular passtime.

[Luke@DiscTrips]

Garublador is right about Iowa -- It's as if every small town has a really friendly city council & parks board, and a few thousand bucks sitting around just waiting for a good, warm & fuzzy family-friendly use like this.

I've played 21 courses in Iowa, all public, and yes, there is some great DG out there. Des Moines is a world-class DG city. Eastern Iowa (Waterloo, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, & the Quads) is equally impressive, just more spread out. And again, every random little town in between has a cute 9 in a neighborhood park.

One fun fact I learned about Iowa in assembling the density data: it's BIG! Iowa is larger than Pennsylvania, New York, Ohio, and North Carolina, to name a few. All the more room to add to their 135 courses... :-)

[Amorybulldog]

Just curious, how many courses did you find in the state of Mississippi. I have been wondering how many there are now. I know a few years ago it was over 30. I know of 4-5 courses added since then.

Thanks for the info, really cool.

[Texconsinite]

2. WISCONSIN (417 sq. mi./course, 41,803 people/course)
4. MINNESOTA (489 sq. mi./course, 41,251 people/course)
35. TEXAS (1,739 sq. mi./course, 144,875 people/course)
48. ARIZONA (6,521 sq. mi./course, 264,115 people/course)


The strange thing about this is that texas and AZ have waay fewer courses for waay more people, but Ive never had to wait as long to tee off in either of those two states as I did on a regular basis in WI or MN. Could it be that there is a more active DG community in the Midwest, or just more players?

[JR Stengele]

It must have been the booze talking. Maybe just being in Iowa for 24 hours on a layover to somewhere better. = )

[sidewinding]

I was looking forward to weeks of "my state is better because we have better courses." "No my state is better because you're a jerk'" And you went and ruined it with your science and logic and stuff.

And why does Iowa have so many more courses than the states around it?

I just did a nationwide search using the criteria that I think make a great course which are moderately to very hilly, moderately wooded, and 4.5 to 5 disc rating.

Iowa came in first with 5 courses
PA came in second with 3 courses
About 8 states tied for 3rd place with 2 courses

So it sounds like Iowa has both quantity and quality and therefore wins the prize for the greatest disc golf state.

Where the hell is Iowa anyway?

[garublador]

Garublador is right about Iowa -- It's as if every small town has a really friendly city council & parks board, and a few thousand bucks sitting around just waiting for a good, warm & fuzzy family-friendly use like this.I don't have any experience in getting a course started, but I'd guess that one of the big selling points disc golfers use to sell city councils on fronting the money for a course is that it's one more thing they can list as a bullet item in the tourist brochure. Then you get the local businesses to sponser baskets/tee signs and they get some advertising to boot. If I stopped in a small town, played their course and saw a restaurant had donated for a hole I'm sure I'd go there for lunch. All you have to do is give statistics about how the sport is growing, show them information about the big events in Des Moines and refer them to another town that has had good luck with a course and it turnes into an easy sell. You get someone to put in a winery nearby and all of a sudden your lame little town is a nice Saturday afternoon for a disc golfer and his or her family.

I'm sure there's a lot about the history of disc golf in the midwest that contributes to this as well, but I don't know anything about it.

[Texconsinite]

Under that criteria sidewinding, I know MN has several courses that would qualify, WI too (if the courses at highbridge have been rated yet), so I think this solidifies the midwest as the best place for dg. Woowoo!!
It makes sense, though, since MN and WI are heavily wooded, hilly, with lots of lakes. Thats all the geographical elements that make for a fun and interesting course, combined with good desgin, which we have several of in the midwest (Chuck Kenndey, Timmy Gill...). Oh, and there is a LOT of open space to use for courses, unlike the East Coast.:cool:

[sidewinding]

Under that criteria sidewinding, I know MN has several courses that would qualify, WI too (if the courses at highbridge have been rated yet), so I think this solidifies the midwest as the best place for dg. Woowoo!!
It makes sense, though, since MN and WI are heavily wooded, hilly, with lots of lakes. Thats all the elements that make for a fun and interesting course. Oh, and there is a LOT of open space to use for courses, unlike the East Coast.:cool:

Mn was one of the states that was tied for 3rd. I did not include heavily wooded in the search because I personally think moderately wooded hilly courses are funner. I love heavily wooded technical courses but I don't think that's what makes a course great.

[Three Putt]

Another thing about Iowa is that a lot of the Clubs up there have bit down hard on the PDDGA dream. One really positive outcome of that for everyone is that if you are looking to host NT's and A Tiers, you are looking to have courses that will challenge the top players in the game. So when a course proposal for a place like West Lake comes around, they were not looking to put in a nice above-average course. They were looking at designing a killer course that could challenge the best players in the game. That results in some top-notch courses. There were already good courses in the Davenport/Moline IL. area so they really didn't need another course, but they wanted a gem. I think they got one.

[Texconsinite]

I like moderate to heavy wooded, but I agree, the "best" courses are usually balanced, with trees in moderation. Since i can tell from the walkthrough that the highbridge, WI courses are moderately wooded (some more than others) and i believe them to be 4.5-5.0 stars, and MN was tied for 3rd, combined with the champ Iowa. Those are three states that all border each other, so i submit that this midwest "Tri-state Area" is the apex of DG in the US. Or even just MN-Iowa, since my views on WI are subjective and not as well supported by reviews from others

My point still stands. :)

[brokenfixed]

wooo, go new jersey

32. NEW JERSEY (1,628 sq. mi./course, 668,148 people/course)

[Donovan]

OK now it is just curiosity, but can you post the raw data you got too?

I would like to know just how many different courses there are in each state also.

[Jungle Tim]

woo!

Go Mexico

106.5 million / Course, shame onl;y 15-20 turn up each sunday, must be a 9am thing!!

[sidewinding]

OK now it is just curiosity, but can you post the raw data you got too?

I would like to know just how many different courses there are in each state also.

I had to do seperate searches, one for moderately hilly and the other for very hilly then add the numbers together myself. It would be nice if it would pull up all courses that are moderately hilly or more on one search.

[Luke@DiscTrips]

Just curious, how many courses did you find in the state of Mississippi. I have been wondering how many there are now. I know a few years ago it was over 30. I know of 4-5 courses added since then.

Thanks for the info, really cool.

For Mississippi, there are 34-35 courses, depending on the source. That's a state I still need to hit..... Good times.

[timg]

I had to do seperate searches, one for moderately hilly and the other for very hilly then add the numbers together myself. It would be nice if it would pull up all courses that are moderately hilly or more on one search.
Umm.. why not check both Moderately Hilly and Very Hilly in the browse form?

[Luke@DiscTrips]

Those are three states that all border each other, so i submit that this midwest "Tri-state Area" is the apex of DG in the US. Or even just MN-Iowa, since my views on WI are subjective and not as well supported by reviews from others

My point still stands. :)

Yes, the numbers don't lie: Minnesota-Wisconsin-Iowa is an unbelievably rich region of DG. You have 395 courses in an area three-quarters the size of Texas. It's just insane. Please, go there, or better yet, live there for a few years. (I did for 10.) Once they all get rated, High Bridge, Blue Ribbon Pines and the rest of the Kennedy/Gill courses in the region will finally step into the national spotlight (or at least the DGCR spotlight!).

Ugh, just writing about it makes me miss it... Sitting here in MA with a small number of far-away (but sweet) courses is just not the same...

[sidewinding]

Umm.. why not check both Moderately Hilly and Very Hilly in the browse form?

That would have saved me some trouble. I had to break out a legal pad and a pencil.

What a dumbass!

[Olorin]

Luke,

Can you compute the population density for each state (number of people per sq. mile) and then compare this to the number of courses?

I've tried this with states like Alaska and Rhode Island, but they seem to skew the results.

[Olorin]

I can also post portions of the two separate rankings (size only, and population only) if anyone's interested. (I'm kind of a spreadsheet geek)

Would you please post the population only chart?

Best of all would you email me your spreadsheet? You can send it to <playdiscgolf(at)gmail.com> if you want to send it. I can also upload it to my Yahoo group, DG Course Reviews, if you'd like.

[JR Stengele]

As far as Wisconsin, Minn., and Iowa, what is considered the best of the three as far as quality?

[sidewinding]

OK now it is just curiosity, but can you post the raw data you got too?

I would like to know just how many different courses there are in each state also.


26 Courses Found


Mt. Crested Butte, CO
Adair Park Corvallis, OR
Arizona Snowbowl Flagstaff, AZ
Beaver Ranch/Conifer Park Conifer, CO
Brakewell Steel / Warwick Town Park Warwick, NY
Bud Hill Millington, TN
Deer Lakes Park Tarentum, PA
DeLaveaga Park Santa Cruz, CA
Ewing Park Des Moines, IA
Freeman Lake Park Elizabethtown, KY
Hickory Hills Traverse City, MI
Idlewild Burlington, KY
Kensington Toboggan Milford, MI
Middle Park DGC Bettendorf, IA
Moraine State Park Portersville, PA
North Hibbing DG Park Hibbing, MN
Pickard Park Indianola, IA
Plamann Apple Creek 18 Appleton, WI
Riverside Park St. Cloud, MN
Riverview Park North Augusta, SC
Seth Burton Memorial DGC Fairmont, WV
Sipapu Ski & Summer Resort Vadito, NM
Tyler State Park Newtown, PA
Walnut Ridge Johnston (Des Moines), IA
Water Works Park Kansas City, MO
West Lake Park Davenport, IA

Copyright © 2007 - 2008, DGCourseReview.com. All rights reserved.

[Luke@DiscTrips]

As far as Wisconsin, Minn., and Iowa, what is considered the best of the three as far as quality?

That's a tough call... I'm partial to Minnesota, having lived there & played 62 of its courses, but when people have asked me that, I've usually settled on Wisconsin. I've played 22 there and just have the most vivid memories of all of them. Even the small-town courses in Wisconsin are memorable, whereas Iowa (and Minnesota, to some extent) is sort of two-tier: the big fancy courses in the cities, and the random sprinkling of somewhat generic 9s in the small towns.

But I like generic small-town 9s more than most people, so basically, I love all three of them almost equally. Gun to my head, though, I'd choose Wisconsin. Plamann Park in Appleton has to be a top 1% course, and the High Bridge compound pretty much seals the deal.

[Luke@DiscTrips]

Luke,

Can you compute the population density for each state (number of people per sq. mile) and then compare this to the number of courses?

I've tried this with states like Alaska and Rhode Island, but they seem to skew the results.

Yeah, I looked at that, but the units just don't really work in a meaningful way. Think about population density as a fraction of "people/square mile," and then try to stick Courses in there somehow. You have two options:

A) Dividing them, making it "Courses / (People/Sq.Mi.)," which mathematically equals "Course Square Miles per Person." Doesn't make a lot of sense.
B) Multiplying them, getting "Course People per Square Mile." Hmm.

So, you have to keep population & land space separate until after ranking them, then blend the rankings together. (e.g., Iowa was #1 and #2 in those lists, easily combining to be #1 overall.)

Oh, and Donovan -- I'm still working on the best way to pass along the raw data... I haven't forgotten!

[Adam Schneider]

Oh, and Donovan -- I'm still working on the best way to pass along the raw data... I haven't forgotten!
Google Spreadsheets.

[DGtourist]

How does the data move if you were to divide by number of holes instead of courses? I believe this weight would take into account 9 hole courses, and penalize the states (as IL was stated to be) that have many 9 hole courses.

[Texconsinite]

The crazy thing is, many of the amazing courses in MN and WI either have very few reviews or no reviews, so the REALLY good courses in the states dont even make the 4.5 criteria (one bad review skews if theres only three reviews). There just aren't enough reviews yet (surprising considering how packed the courses always are).

This is also the reason why IA-WI-MN is the Disc Golf Apex, yet not one course from any of those three states cracks the top rated or top reviewed lists on the DGCR homes page.

Methinks we Midwesterners (myself included) might need to start putting more DGCR flyers up on our courses to get the word out.

[Olorin]

Along similar lines here's a link to a spreadsheet that has the same kind of numbers. It's quite useful. Steve West does some amazing things with numbers. Go to Disc Golf Course Design by Steve West (http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/numbers.aspx).

Steve says, "Here is a list of the number of disc golf courses by state and country, compared to the area and population of each. The figures for number of courses and holes are from the PDGA Course Directory as of 02/18/2008. The figures for area and population are from free websites of unknown accuracy."

He also lists the number of holes per state.

[Olorin]

The first map on Steve West's City Graphs (http://stevewestdiscgolf.com/citygraphs.aspx) shows a fascinating graphical representation of course density that confirms what's been said about Iowa-WI-MN.

[Luke@DiscTrips]

Okay, just to cap this off, here are some final numbers. I should clarify that my original table was based on PDGA.com's directory, not the DGCR one, but after re-running it with DGCR numbers, which we would all assume are a bit more complete, the rankings barely changed, with an identical top 7. (actually, I'm now using the greater # of the two... a couple states show more courses on PDGA.com) No state moved more than 2 spots either direction, but I suppose the big winner was North Carolina, which shoved Maine out of Top 10. (Maine's feelings are clearly hurt.)

DENSITY RANKINGS (AGAIN)

1. IOWA (411 sq. mi./course, 21,811 people/course)
2. WISCONSIN (489 sq. mi./course, 41,803 people/course)
3. DELAWARE (178 sq. mi./course, 78,615 people/course)
4. MINNESOTA (690 sq. mi./course, 41,251 people/course)
5. ILLINOIS (487 sq. mi./course, 108,005 people/course)
6. KANSAS (1127 sq. mi./course, 38,027 people/course)
7. OHIO (482 sq. mi./course, 123,300 people/course)
8. KENTUCKY (722 sq. mi./course, 75,741 people/course)
9. VERMONT (874 sq. mi./course, 56,478 people/course)
10. NORTH CAROLINA (641 sq. mi./course, 107,869 people/course)

And here are the two top ten lists when isolating the two factors:

POPULATION DENSITY - People Per Course

1. IOWA (21,811 people per course)
2. SOUTH DAKOTA (22,117 people per course)
3. NORTH DAKOTA (26,655 people per course)
4. MONTANA (31,929 people per course)
5. WYOMING (32,677 people per course)
6. KANSAS (38,027 people per course)
7. MINNESOTA (41,251 people per course)
8. WISCONSIN (41,803 people per course)
9. ALASKA (42,717 people per course)
10. MAINE (43,907 people per course)

DISPERSION OF COURSES - Square Miles per Course

1. DELAWARE (178 sq. mi. per course)
2. IOWA (411 sq. mi. per course)
3. OHIO (482 sq. mi. per course)
4. ILLINOIS (487 sq. mi. per course)
5. WISCONSIN (489 sq. mi. per course)
6. CONNECTICUT (504 sq. mi. per course)
7. MASSACHUSETTS (621 sq. mi. per course)
8. NEW JERSEY (623 sq. mi. per course)
9. PENNSYLVANIA (640 sq. mi. per course)
10. NORTH CAROLINA (641 sq. mi. per course)

Holes per state and per city-radius would be a fun next step in this conversation... To think that there are 33,000 holes in the U.S. (per Steve West's data)?? That is awesome. More fun with math to come, hopefully...

[Luke@DiscTrips]

Oops -- I should also point out that while the order in the first set of rankings was right, the listed "sq. mi./course" in parentheses was mismatched with the state name in many cases. My bad! But again, it was just a labeling problem... that's fixed in this latest post (above), and will be correct when I get around to posting/sending the Excel file to anyone interested. The hazards of data analysis... :-)

[Olorin]

DENSITY RANKINGS (AGAIN)

1. IOWA (411 sq. mi./course, 21,811 people/course)
2. WISCONSIN (489 sq. mi./course, 41,803 people/course)
3. DELAWARE (178 sq. mi./course, 78,615 people/course)
4. MINNESOTA (690 sq. mi./course, 41,251 people/course)
5. ILLINOIS (487 sq. mi./course, 108,005 people/course)
6. KANSAS (1127 sq. mi./course, 38,027 people/course)
7. OHIO (482 sq. mi./course, 123,300 people/course)
8. KENTUCKY (722 sq. mi./course, 75,741 people/course)
9. VERMONT (874 sq. mi./course, 56,478 people/course)
10. NORTH CAROLINA (641 sq. mi./course, 107,869 people/course)



Well, now I'm confused. Your initial list had the courses sorted in order of sq miles/ course. But now it appears that Iowa had Delaware's sq miles/ course. And Delaware had Ohio's sq miles/ course. Ohio had MA's and so on... So was this first list wrong?

Also, could you explain how you came up with the list "DENSITY RANKINGS (AGAIN)"? Did you just add the ranks of Popul Density and Dispersion? (But Wisconsin was 8 + 5 then ends in 2nd??) I don't see how you came up that order.

[Olorin]

I'm not trying to be a gadfly, but I'd be more interested in seeing the ratio of courses/person than I would people/course. I'd like to turn it around and say that if a state has more people then they should have more courses.

[Olorin]

FWIW, here's a table of Courses per Million people (using Steve West's data). Once again, Iowa is the winner! States with lots of courses and a relatively low population are highest. States with higher populations, esp. the Northeast, rank lowest.

Iowa, 43.8
South Dakota, 43.8
North Dakota, 36.1
Montana, 27.8
Wyoming, 25.5
Kansas, 24.0
Wisconsin, 23.1
Nebraska, 22.7
Minnesota, 22.6
Idaho, 20.3
Vermont, 19.3
Alaska, 18.1
Colorado, 17.4
Maine, 16.6
Oregon, 15.9
Oklahoma, 13.5
Kentucky, 11.5
Mississippi, 11.0
Delaware, 10.7
New Mexico, 10.4
Michigan, 9.7
South Carolina, 8.5
North Carolina, 8.4
Illinois, 8.2
Ohio, 7.5
Indiana, 7.5
Missouri, 7.4
West Virginia, 7.2
Utah, 6.9
Texas, 6.6
Tennessee, 6.5
Washington, 6.2
Arkansas, 6.1
Virginia, 5.4
Alabama, 5.3
Pennsylvania, 4.8
New Hampshire, 4.6
Georgia, 4.5
Arizona, 4.2
Hawaii, 3.9
Louisiana, 3.5
California, 3.4
Florida, 3.1
Maryland, 2.9
Massachusetts, 2.8
Connecticut, 2.6
Nevada, 2.5
Rhode Island, 1.9
New York, 1.7
New Jersey, 1.4


P.S.- I sure wish there was a way to post tables on here. Things like this could look so much nicer.

[Olorin]

South Carolina, 8.5
North Carolina, 8.4

Notice how South Carolina edges out North Carolina. SC has half the courses and half the population of NC. This seems evidence to me that the table above doesn't really tell us anything very useful.

[Donovan]

This stuff may not tell us a whole lot, but I gotta say, it sure is fun looking through everything and seeing how things stack up. Thanks som much for taking the time you guys!

[Luke@DiscTrips]

Well, now I'm confused. Your initial list had the courses sorted in order of sq miles/ course. But now it appears that Iowa had Delaware's sq miles/ course. And Delaware had Ohio's sq miles/ course. Ohio had MA's and so on... So was this first list wrong?

Also, could you explain how you came up with the list "DENSITY RANKINGS (AGAIN)"? Did you just add the ranks of Popul Density and Dispersion? (But Wisconsin was 8 + 5 then ends in 2nd??) I don't see how you came up that order.

I covered these two good questions back in posts 48 & 49... Yes, the square mileage *labels* in the parentheses were a bit out of order (mismatched) in the original list, but the *actual rankings* (the order of states) were right. I fixed that in the newer top 10 (and in the spreadsheet behind it). And Wisconsin comes in 2nd overall, even though it's 5th and 8th, because it's the only state other than Iowa that's in both top 10s. Iowa is the lowest total at 1+2=3, and WI is 8+5=13, but the next-best combined score adds to way more than 13.

And finally, I totally agree that Courses per Person (or Million People, as it were) is a much more intuitive way to think about it. All you have to do is take the reciprocal of my numbers (1/x) and you'll have Steve West's numbers (or very close to them). My population-only top 10 is identical for the first 7 or 8 states to his list; I'm using 2007 population figures and very current course counts, and he used February 2008 course counts and I'm not sure which population figures. I was just using People per Course because it looks funny to say "9.5 courses per million" for a state with 500,000 people in it (e.g., Alaska).

Hope that helps!