What entices you to play a Tournament?

[lil_trumperboy]

I'm planning a Tournament at my private disc golf course (Holler In The Hills). I had a Tournament May 30, 2009 and only 27 people showed up. My course is still kinda new and alot of people still haven't played it but most say they've heard good things about it. I'm worried about another low turn out and I wanted to know the main reasons you decide to select a tournament to play in. Your feedback will be greatly appreciated.
I usually go if there's a Tournament within 100 miles because I like to play Tournaments.

[Midnightbiker]

I'm planning a Tournament at my private disc golf course (Holler In The Hills). I had a Tournament May 30, 2009 and only 27 people showed up. My course is still kinda new and alot of people still haven't played it but most say they've heard good things about it. I'm worried about another low turn out and I wanted to know the main reasons you decide to select a tournament to play in. Your feedback will be greatly appreciated.
I usually go if there's a Tournament within 100 miles because I like to play Tournaments.

I like to play tournaments, but I will say this. I will not play a tournament at a course I don't like , or if there is a history of a lot of pot smoking going on. Those two things will keep me from playing.

Now , if you are having a low turn out, maybe not enough people know you are having a tournament. I know that most of the people that played in the tournament at my home course, didn't even know there was going to be a tournament till I posted some signs around town at other courses. Just a thought.

[adh56]

Midnightbiker has a great point on advertising or getting the word out there.

I'm a new player and haven't played any tournaments yet but i'm definately going to next year. I would want a disc with a hot stamp of the tournament in the players pack.

I'm actually visiting my brother this week and we're gonna do an Ace Race in San Jose on Saturday. I'm not expecting to get any aces but the players pack has 2 discs, a visor and I think something else I'm forgetting. And it should be a fun time out, all for $25.

[DannyM]

Some suggestions to help out with turn out:
-If you have a local disc golf club let them know about it far in advance, that way if they have a web site or E-mail list, they can send it out.
-If you have a state points series, add you tournament on to that, you may have to do some sort of payout to it to be on it, but you can raise the entry fee to cover it.
-post flyers on as many local courses as you can to make people aware.
-go to as many local tourneys as you can in advance and let people know about it. Most will let you do announcements as they finish up with the players meeting at the beginning of tournaments. You don't even have to play it, just be there, maybe even bring flyers so people can get them there.

Hope some of this will help...you want people to show up to a new course, you have to do some "leg work"....make it known that it's out there!

[craigd]

I am more likely to play them when they are PDGA sanctioned. I would would rather have better payouts than better players packs.

[DavidSauls]

Being involved running tournaments that draw well, and not-so-well, I've wondered about this. My guess on attendance is:

1---Good course. Great courses can drawer players from far away, mediocre courses don't draw well.
2---The calendar. Finding a date that, in your area, doesn't conflict with other nearby events. Bear in mind events the week before and, especially, the week after as well. If there's a big event the week after your tournament, some regulars will be involved in tournament preparation there.
3---Advertisement. Get the word out. Sanctioning with PDGA and, around here, our state organization, gets it on calendars where people you don't know, can find out about it. Best if done months in advance so people can make plans. We e-mail flyers to people within 100 miles, with a request that they post them on their courses. E-mail lists for area people help.
4---Numbers. This is a chicken/egg type of thing. If you have good attendance, more people want to come. If you fill, people sign up early. If it looks like low attendance, more people will pass on it.
5---Sanctioning. Beyond the advertising, sanctioning matters to people competing for points, and gives and expectation of standards being met. There are successful non-sanctioned events, of course, but sanctioning helps.
6---TD. I'm not sure doing a great job will draw more people than an average job. But a badly-run tournament (late starts, bad rulings, etc.) can run off future players.
7---Time. It may take a few years of running an event to build up attendance figures.

These are more-or-less the factors that affect me, and seem to affect tournament attendance in general.

[mashnut]

You have a great course that is perfect for tournaments, and if I still lived only a few hours away I would definitely be there. Have you tried posting flyers around Bowling Green, and talking to the club there? Otherwise, just keep hosting great events, and you'll earn a good reputation and get bigger turnouts.

[Omega SuperSloth]

30 people for a non-pdga event sounds pretty good.

What did you charge?

[prerube]

I'm planning a Tournament at my private disc golf course (Holler In The Hills). I had a Tournament May 30, 2009 and only 27 people showed up. My course is still kinda new and alot of people still haven't played it but most say they've heard good things about it. I'm worried about another low turn out and I wanted to know the main reasons you decide to select a tournament to play in. Your feedback will be greatly appreciated.
I usually go if there's a Tournament within 100 miles because I like to play Tournaments.

I am dying to play Holler In The Hills, if I were with in 100 miles I'd go.
to answer your question, PLASTIC, I go for the free discs and the people.
Getting word out and advertising at all of the KY courses in your area will help. Make sure one of the other local courses does not have an event considering KY has so many nice courses.

DavidSauls gave great advice. It's just too much to quote

[rikardob]

I go to one tourney a year and I go because it's on private land, offers free camping, several kegs of micro brew beer, lunches on both days, a dry fit shirt with that year's Tourney logo, 2 custom discs with the logo and a full color mini. They also have live music on a stage at night played by the land owner and his son in law, both amazing musicians. It's the disc golf highlight of the year.

[JR Stengele]

Good course
Competition - playing better players to see how you compare
Players packs so if you suck you still walk away with something

[Vegan Ray]

1) Course - I will travel miles to play a thoughtfully-designed course
2) Food - Zooming out for lunch in an unfamiliar town sux. Lunch on-site (either as part of entry fee or for $$) is a MAJOR plus. Fire up the grill or score a sponsorship deal with a local delivery joint to take lunch orders in the a.m. & deliver at lunchtime. On-site dinner/players' party is also a selling point for 2-day events.
3) Ancillary events - CTPs, distance comp, ring o' fire, poker, homebrew contest, and/or a million other ideas. More ways to fill down time & more ways to ca$h!
4) Organization - If your flyer is written in good English & outlines all necessary info, I will be much more likely to play your tournament because I will have evidence that the event itself will also be well-organized. On-line registration, PayPal, good directions, & prompt answers to emailed queries also contribute to the perception of organization.
5) Schwag - Nicely designed & printed t-shirts, discs, caps, whatever are always nice.
6) Camping - A place to camp is always a plus for 2-day events.

[ERicJ]

Being involved running tournaments that draw well, and not-so-well, I've wondered about this. My guess on attendance is:

1---Good course. Great courses can drawer players from far away, mediocre courses don't draw well.
2---The calendar. Finding a date that, in your area, doesn't conflict with other nearby events. Bear in mind events the week before and, especially, the week after as well. If there's a big event the week after your tournament, some regulars will be involved in tournament preparation there.
3---Advertisement. Get the word out. Sanctioning with PDGA and, around here, our state organization, gets it on calendars where people you don't know, can find out about it. Best if done months in advance so people can make plans. We e-mail flyers to people within 100 miles, with a request that they post them on their courses. E-mail lists for area people help.
4---Numbers. This is a chicken/egg type of thing. If you have good attendance, more people want to come. If you fill, people sign up early. If it looks like low attendance, more people will pass on it.
5---Sanctioning. Beyond the advertising, sanctioning matters to people competing for points, and gives and expectation of standards being met. There are successful non-sanctioned events, of course, but sanctioning helps.
6---TD. I'm not sure doing a great job will draw more people than an average job. But a badly-run tournament (late starts, bad rulings, etc.) can run off future players.
7---Time. It may take a few years of running an event to build up attendance figures.

These are more-or-less the factors that affect me, and seem to affect tournament attendance in general.

David has some good stuff there. I'll add a few more factors to consider.

Entry Fees --- Some players are on a budget and higher entry fees will keep them away.

Payout --- Good payout will attract players. Obtaining sponsorship for your tournament allows you to increase the payout as well.

Format --- Most tournaments are standard singles play. But Doubles tournaments can be a lot of fun too.

[cydisc]

1) The prospect of winning tens, even hundreds, of dollars

[adam423]

I am dying to play Holler In The Hills, if I were with in 100 miles I'd go.
to answer your question, PLASTIC, I go for the free discs and the people.
Getting word out and advertising at all of the KY courses in your area will help. Make sure one of the other local courses does not have an event considering KY has so many nice courses.

DavidSauls gave great advice. It's just too much to quote

I'd say go ahead and talk to people in TN too, Nashville is closer than Lexington or Lexington. If you schedule far enough in advance you can probably avoid having a tournament going on anywhere nearby, and that would help a ton.

[Roc1Time]

FUN. I have been to alot and know over time which ones are run well and which ones are a blast!!! You always go to the ones that are a blast. There is a list I have that I go to every year no matter what and thats because there are great time.

[SnowMongoose]

Doublecheck that I suck as much as I think
See a new course, or what they've done with one I've seen
Hope for something random like a CTP award
$20 T-shirts rule (more like $100 with the money lost from skipping work : P )

[kirvin2]

I talked to Howie at Holler in the Hills today to make arangements for some friends and me to play wednesday. He sounds anxious to get people on his course. I've checked out his website and the course looks great! If I can swing it, I'll play in his tournament. Looks like a good time, with camping and good food and some good disc golf.

[Roc1Time]

I talked to Howie at Holler in the Hills today to make arangements for some friends and me to play wednesday. He sounds anxious to get people on his course. I've checked out his website and the course looks great! If I can swing it, I'll play in his tournament. Looks like a good time, with camping and good food and some good disc golf.

Sounds like the hillclimber GREAT times!!

[Disc Golf Cowboy]

I'm sure you've already talked with Josh and Justin. I'm sure they'll be behind you.
Then there's always HB. lol

[discgolphinmafaukner]

The number one thing I consider when deciding on whether I will play (in a tournament) or not is the players pack. I generally like to get my money back in the players pack, and the more the better! Free food and/or free beer is definitely a plus! Also, for multi-day events a discount at a local campground or a local hotel would also be nice!

[adam423]

I'd say go ahead and talk to people in TN too, Nashville is closer than Lexington or Lexington. If you schedule far enough in advance you can probably avoid having a tournament going on anywhere nearby, and that would help a ton.

Lexington or Louisville, I meant.

[kmrynders]

What attracts all of you guys to play in a new tourney? Is it word of mouth, amazing players pack, big purse amounts?

Obviously it's easy to go to a tourney in your area, but what draws you in the most, what is the one biggest factor that makes a tourney a must play?

Just curious...

[mashnut]

Two things are the deciding factors for me: I prefer to play on good/fun courses, and I like to play events when there is going to be a big turnout so I'm not just in a division of 6 people.

[gcrussell4]

The bigger I think my division is the better. I like small events too, but usually when they are on the cheap. Big divisions make tourneys fun though. You want to be able to measure yourself vs. as many people as possible. BG Ams here I come!

[Midnightbiker]

It depends on the course, the time, and the money I have to shell out to play. I am not going to shell out alot of money to play a course I don't like.

[Circleyrvowels]

Mostly depends on money, everything does and how far I have to drive and the course. If its far and requires hotel then you just uped the entry fee atleast 60-80 bux as far as im concerned.

[biscoe]

the course first and foremost. the second thing would be knowing it will be competently run.

[disc-o maniac]

players packages definatly plays a part in it but the main thing that draws me in is location and price

[mashnut]

the course first and foremost. the second thing would be knowing it will be competently run.

Excellent point, having a td who runs a fair and organized tournament makes a huge difference.

[Dave242]

The added pressure of playing my best rounds in a formal setting......on a great course as defined by:

1) Holes with good risk/reward. Fair, but harsh punishment for bad decisions or execution.
2) Holes that have rewarding birdie opportunities for me. I’m a Blue level player (950ish skill) who throws 300’ accurately, 360’ max.
3) More wooded than open – lots of variety of shots required caused by hole shape and topography.
4) Natural beauty (Appalachian beauty preferred) and seclusion.
5) Bonus points for multi-throw holes with defined landing zones, good risk/reward and multiple options to play them.

This kind of course will give me great feedback on if I am on my game or not.

[JTacoma03]

Great course OR great players pack. It's got to have 1/2 to be considered.

If it has both it'll keep me coming back - Trace Open (Am) for example - beautiful and fun course, great players pack. Even though it is in Middle-Of-Nowhere, Mississippi.

[DavidSauls]

The course, first and foremost. I'll scramble to play a good or great course. I don't care for an event on a course I don't like, no matter what else they offer.

The calendar, secondly. How a tournament fits into my life. And how it fits against other events, since I can't play back-to-back weekends. Not crazy about playing in winter (others may feel that way about the heat of summer).

Minor issues are how well run the tournament is, and whether it's likely to have a pretty good attendance.

Don't care at all about players packages or payouts.

[gottafixit]

I was wondering on a side note similair to this, what about a tourney that is billed as a fund raiser overall, would you expect some kinda payout or players pack or prizes of some sort?

on the topic, money is the biggest factor I'm not going to throw my money away playing a course I could play for free I like the 20-30 dollar range a plus if I get a disc or something with that, second I guess is the course ie do I think I have a chance of being competative, third is the size and expected type of crowd to big and if I don't know anyone then I feel like a waste a day playing two really drawn out rounds. a side big factor for me has been to play new courses alot of which are private or temp but the price has to be right.

[prerube]

players packages definatly plays a part in it but the main thing that draws me in is location and price

agreed.

How much is the tourney, how cool is the swag, and is it on a decent course.
The number of people is less important, but I am a less serious player.

[scarpfish]

1. The date and location. A must when you work weekends and have to take leave to play.
2. Whether its PDGA sanctioned or run by our local tour so I can get rated rounds or tour points.
3. Competence of the tournament director in promoting & running them.
4. Entry fees in accordance to what I should expect for that caliber of event.
5. Quality of course(s) being offered.

[okiebullgod]

Cash payout in all divisions. I don't want to pay for a disc or discs that are chosen for you. I put up money and I expect cash payout. PDGA needs to ammend this rule in my opinion.

[tallpaul]

Cash payout in all divisions. I don't want to pay for a disc or discs that are chosen for you. I put up money and I expect cash payout. PDGA needs to ammend this rule in my opinion.

Spend all the time and effort it takes to run a good tourney; give all cash back to players; without making a dime (which is about what most TDs make); and see if you ever do it again.

I, personally, am not much of a sanctioned tourney player; for a variety of reasons. However, I greatly respect the efforts of most tourney directors; and I do volunteer for sanctioned tourneys to help them out. Their job is usually rewarding more in the commitment they give to the sport; rather than financially. Take away the plastic payout and there becomes very little reason for any to get involved. Would you/could you; got to your job every day without getting a paycheck?

[DavidSauls]

Not only would he not make money---he'd lose money with fees and other expenses.

I sure wish this payback culture had never entered disc golf. A person should be willing to pay $20 (one day) or $30 (two days) with absolutely no return---no players package, no payout, no nothing. Just a fee for someone to put on a tournament and make it possible to play in a competitive event. You'll pay much more for a day in a theme park. You'll pay more in most other sports, with no expectaction of a payback (unless you're in the top 1%).

Alas, we've got it, and at least the TDs can offset their costs, maybe make money or raise money for the local course, by handling all the plastic.

[biscoe]

agreed. unfortunately that cow has been out of the barn for too long.

[tallpaul]

lol....who would even mention cows and disc in the same sentence?

[oddjob]

payout

[waynewf]

Nice course and awesome players pack! You should always get at least 1 disc and a t-shirt.....

[DavidSauls]

Nice course and awesome players pack! You should always get at least 1 disc and a t-shirt.....

I know I'm in the minority on players packages, but.....why?

A tournament charges me $40 and gives me a $15 disc.

I'd prefer they charge me $25 and not give me the disc at all. I can then spend $15 for a disc if I want it. Or a tee shirt. Or whatever else.

OK, I know the tournament makes $5 or so on the deal. But why do players want it?

[_.-Dut-._]

Entry Fee, Players Pack, Lenght (one day or two day), location, weather, word of mouth, TD, payout.

In that order.

[_.-Dut-._]

I know I'm in the minority on players packages, but.....why?

A tournament charges me $40 and gives me a $15 disc.

I'd prefer they charge me $25 and not give me the disc at all. I can then spend $15 for a disc if I want it. Or a tee shirt. Or whatever else.

OK, I know the tournament makes $5 or so on the deal. But why do players want it?

Its just a nice gesture. For me, once I see that a Tourney is going to be $40and I decide I am going to go to it then that part is worked out. Now once I get there and get a cool players pack then the price that I was already ok with is that much more worth it.

Im more likely to attend a 25 dollar tourney over a 40 dollar one. However if the 40 dollar tournament has a nicer players pack then it will get priority the following year.

[biscoe]

lol....who would even mention cows and disc in the same sentence?

who indeed? the two are so completely unrelated it's inconceivable...:D
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_2785.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn144/jb9456/IMG_3570.jpg

[okiebullgod]

Not only would he not make money---he'd lose money with fees and other expenses.

I sure wish this payback culture had never entered disc golf. A person should be willing to pay $20 (one day) or $30 (two days) with absolutely no return---no players package, no payout, no nothing. Just a fee for someone to put on a tournament and make it possible to play in a competitive event. You'll pay much more for a day in a theme park. You'll pay more in most other sports, with no expectaction of a payback (unless you're in the top 1%).

Alas, we've got it, and at least the TDs can offset their costs, maybe make money or raise money for the local course, by handling all the plastic.

David, I appreciate your opinion, but I never said I wanted to TD a tourney. I said I'd like to see a cash payout over all the divisions. I do have some production experience though in a different athletic realm. The goal of any producer (TD) should be to have the whole cost of the event covered beforehand via sponsor dollars. If a good promoter works hard to secure adequate sponsorships, any additional monies made at the tournament would be gravy, and he/she could still offer a 100% payout. It's been my experience, albeit limited, that some TD's just lack the motivation to have more than a mediocre event. That being said, I've never tried to gain sponsorships for a disc golf event, maybe it's just not feasible.

[biscoe]

some TD's just lack the motivation to have more than a mediocre event.
true that.

That being said, I've never tried to gain sponsorships for a disc golf event, maybe it's just not feasible.

it's doable but is imo the least pleasant aspect of the td experience.

[360chickenwingroller]

Cash payout in all divisions. I don't want to pay for a disc or discs that are chosen for you. I put up money and I expect cash payout. PDGA needs to ammend this rule in my opinion.

If you want $ than play pro. I know few very talented golfers that play pro and more often than not, they cash. They don't except cash so they can keep their am status

-Location
-organization of the event

[DavidSauls]

Apologies, okiebullgod. I didn't intend it to be personal. I was carrying a previous post a step forward, as to why full cash payouts aren't feasible (unless, as you say, the TD rounds up a bunch of sponsorships). I would hope that, for anyone who hasn't been a TD, someone like me who has might relay some insightful information.

Definitions of a good tournament, and thus a good TD, vary.

Say I want to host run an event. I want area disc golfers I know, and those I don't, to have another chance at a competitive event, on a course they may not otherwise have a tournament. I am willing to put in tons of time preparing the course, doing the paperwork, organizing it, promoting it, etc. so it's a good experience. Being me, I might also be coming up with unusual formats, or spending hundreds of hours preparing a private course.

To say that, if I don't also beat the bushes for sponsorships, which are really goodwill gifts from local businesses who are unlikely to reap any benefit, I'm being lazy or negligent or a poor TD, I'd disagree. I don't feel it's my duty to raise a lot of extra money to give away to the disc golfers whom I'm inviting to my tournament.

Perhaps the Earlewood Classic is a poor event, since it doesn't have any outside money, though the fact that it filled in 17 minutes indicates that at least some disc golfers like it. (I'm just an assistant there). Perhaps my guests at Stoney Hill are being kind when they tell me they enjoy it, or extra kind when they make long drives to return each year to the middle of nowhere for an event with no sponsor-added money.

[DavidSauls]

Oops, that came out a bit strident.

Sorry, I have a knee-jerk defense of TDs. If they have the motivation to run a tournament for me to play in, that's enough motivation for me.

[Vegan Ray]

There is not one magic formula that makes a tournament great for every player. Some folks (Matt Hall & Sarah DeMar are 2 notable examples) are very ROI-oriented & may call an event on a middling course with middling amenities & a fat, shallow payout "great". Others like the gratification of cashing & look for a deep payout, even if it is not so fat. Personally, I would continue to play events like the Vibram Open, Grange Open, West Virginia Open, & Virginia State Frisbee Championships even if there were no payout at all. (There is never one for me at these events, anyway.)

Others look for a bevy of ancillary events, great course(s), a wealth (or dearth) of divisions, good food, great players' party, the presence of top pros or ancient-schoolers, and/or myriad other variables to label an event "great". The fact that there are TDs that also recognize these divergent definitions of "greatness", and run their events accordingly, is part of what makes this game so fantastic. No matter your druthers, you will quite likely be able to find quite a few events that meet your personal definition of a "great" event.

[biscoe]

damn, loves an event he hasn't even been to better than mine... i'm heartbroken.:(

[DavidSauls]

There is not one magic formula that makes a tournament great for every player. Some folks (Matt Hall & Sarah DeMar are 2 notable examples) are very ROI-oriented & may call an event on a middling course with middling amenities & a fat, shallow payout "great". Others like the gratification of cashing & look for a deep payout, even if it is not so fat. Personally, I would continue to play events like the Vibram Open, Grange Open, West Virginia Open, & Virginia State Frisbee Championships even if there were no payout at all. (There is never one for me at these events, anyway.)

Others look for a bevy of ancillary events, great course(s), a wealth (or dearth) of divisions, good food, great players' party, the presence of top pros or ancient-schoolers, and/or myriad other variables to label an event "great". The fact that there are TDs that also recognize these divergent definitions of "greatness", and run their events accordingly, is part of what makes this game so fantastic. No matter your druthers, you will quite likely be able to find quite a few events that meet your personal definition of a "great" event.

Excellent point.

Supported by this whole thread, where people have given all kinds of different reasons for attending a tournament.

Different strokes, and all that.

[Vegan Ray]

damn, loves an event he hasn't even been to better than mine... i'm heartbroken.:(
No offense intended. Just listing BIG NT & A-tier events with which DGCR denizens are more likely to be familiar to illustrate my point. Everybody "in the know" touts Hawk Hollow events as the best (course, ancillary events, food, trophies, schwag, players, and a million other li'l details), and they are right!:clap:

[kerplunk]

The added pressure of playing my best rounds in a formal setting......on a great course as defined by:

1) Holes with good risk/reward. Fair, but harsh punishment for bad decisions or execution.
2) Holes that have rewarding birdie opportunities for me. I’m a Blue level player (950ish skill) who throws 300’ accurately, 360’ max.
3) More wooded than open – lots of variety of shots required caused by hole shape and topography.
4) Natural beauty (Appalachian beauty preferred) and seclusion.
5) Bonus points for multi-throw holes with defined landing zones, good risk/reward and multiple options to play them.

This kind of course will give me great feedback on if I am on my game or not.

It's like deja vu from a bunch of reviews that people didn't find helpful. I actually do find your reviews helpful, if not super informative.

[biscoe]

No offense intended. Just listing BIG NT & A-tier events with which DGCR denizens are more likely to be familiar to illustrate my point. Everybody "in the know" touts Hawk Hollow events as the best (course, ancillary events, food, trophies, schwag, players, and a million other li'l details), and they are right!:clap:

god i'm such a needy little bitch.:\

[360chickenwingroller]

David Sauls quote-
"Perhaps my guests at Stoney Hill are being kind when they tell me they enjoy it, or extra kind when they make long drives to return each year to the middle of nowhere for an event with no sponsor-added money."


Not at all, you ran a great tournament at a great course! it truly was a joy to play even in the mud

When I travel all the way up to play in Bedford VA, it is a pleasure no a privilege to play at Vince W's

[biscoe]

timber ridge is great. 2nd best course in va imo.

[kerplunk]

I know I'm in the minority on players packages, but.....why?

A tournament charges me $40 and gives me a $15 disc.

I'd prefer they charge me $25 and not give me the disc at all. I can then spend $15 for a disc if I want it. Or a tee shirt. Or whatever else.

OK, I know the tournament makes $5 or so on the deal. But why do players want it?

One reason is to get a cool tourney stamped disc or rare disc. For example, I think most Discraft Cryztal plastic is tourney only, and we got some pretty sweet R-Pro Ontario Rocs for a touney I helped TD in November. Also, I would dig a cool T-shirt if it was not covered with ads.

[scarpfish]

David, I appreciate your opinion, but I never said I wanted to TD a tourney. I said I'd like to see a cash payout over all the divisions.
You do realize the enormous sandbagging issue this idea would cause, which is a valid concern considering all the griping already about paying Ams in merchandise.

I do have some production experience though in a different athletic realm. The goal of any producer (TD) should be to have the whole cost of the event covered beforehand via sponsor dollars. If a good promoter works hard to secure adequate sponsorships, any additional monies made at the tournament would be gravy, and he/she could still offer a 100% payout.
The issue with sponsors is that they have the same mentality that a lot of players do. The "what's in it for us" mentality. Most of them want a return on their investment. Once you tell a potential sponsor if they would like to sponsor a hole so you can attract traveling pros to town who will in turn leave town with their money should they win, they'll largely become disinterested. It doesn't help much either when the sponsor has never heard of disc golf or worse yet has only heard of the negative associations with it.

It's been my experience, albeit limited, that some TD's just lack the motivation to have more than a mediocre event. That being said, I've never tried to gain sponsorships for a disc golf event, maybe it's just not feasible.
A more fitting explanation is that they lack the time or support staff to go do all of that footwork. You gotta remember these guys have day jobs and family commitments they must attend to. The best events that go out and get good sponsorship have a well organized team doing all of this.

God knows that I've seen a lot of good TD's stop directing tournaments because for all their hard efforts, they get very little thanks and a lot of grief, often over petty silly things, or stuff that they have no control over. I can't say that I blame them.

[Pete Kwaz]

1) Familiarity with the course
2) size of the field
3) Difficulty of the course

I'm hoping to play AM Worlds this year as it is being played in Mid-Ohio

[okiebullgod]

If you want $ than play pro. I know few very talented golfers that play pro and more often than not, they cash. They don't except cash so they can keep their am status

-Location
-organization of the event

Haha, I am a long way from pro. However, I would still like the chance to make my money back otherwise what's the point? I can play for free any time. I guess it boils down to personal preference, spending my money to see how I rate against other players isn't worth it to me. There are plenty of salty guys around here I can play with to figure out where I stand. It is of my opinion that if someone is able to place in the pro division, they have no business entering AM.

[sidewinding]

I really, really, really like one day Saturday Tournaments.

[okiebullgod]

Oops, that came out a bit strident.

Sorry, I have a knee-jerk defense of TDs. If they have the motivation to run a tournament for me to play in, that's enough motivation for me.

No offense taken. Thank you for the input on TD'ing. I rode bulls for 20 years and that is the perspective I take on tournaments in disc golf. In bullriding, if a guy isn't one of the elite (top 100), he can still make a decent living at the amateur events. My last year riding bulls, 2006, I made a little over $40,000. I didn't go to a single pro sanctioned event that year and barely left the central plains (NE, KS, OK, SD). I can't imagine traveling across the street to an event if the winner only got a shirt and a set of rowels. A guy has to, above all, eat. You guys with lots more experience know how the tournament system goes in this sport, and I don't have the experience to even try to argue, and would love to hear all the pros and cons. It's just my personal opinion that cash payouts would be better. I like the idea of gambling on myself. If I play well, it's at the very least, a free round for me and I haven't wasted my money playing a game I can play for free.

[okiebullgod]

and FWIW, the 100th best bullrider in sanctioned events at years end is usually around $25k in winnings.

[biscoe]

...and risking his ass to get it...

[okiebullgod]

Here are two of my quotes that seem to contradict eachother, so let me explain...
"It is of my opinion that if someone is able to place in the pro division, they have no business entering AM."
"I made a little over $40,000. I didn't go to a single pro sanctioned event that year and barely left the central plains (NE, KS, OK, SD)."

If I had entered top tier events against the top 100, I wouldn't have won nearly as much. Entering at my level, enabled me to be successful. Thus my idea that all divisions should pay cash.

[sidewinder22]

1. Course, high difficulty/ fun factor, and location/proximity. Will travel further for PDGA event.
2. Entry Fee, lower the better, could care less about player packs/merch payouts. I just like to compete. I'd play Open all the time on a sliding scale entry fee.
3. Who's there, people I know.
4. Food, great food at a tourney will get me to come back.

[humchris85]

The course is what will usualy be what attracts me to play in a tourny.

[billnchristy]

dancing goils.

[biscoe]

i wanna know what prompted christy to drop that sig line.

[billnchristy]

It was a comment on our daughters glasses oddly enough.

[gottafixit]

Spend all the time and effort it takes to run a good tourney; give all cash back to players; without making a dime (which is about what most TDs make); and see if you ever do it again.



I am working on my second tournament set for this June. I threw my first last year and lost money on the deal. I billed it as 50/50 fundraiser, with a instep and a gift card to disc golf center up for grabs. I hoped to raise money for improvements to the course, but more than anything I just wanted people to make it out and play the course(fairly new and had just gotten some baskets installed). Like I said I lost money on the deal because the turn out was really low, but I think those that did play will spread the word of the course and more will play it in the future. Better yet word gets out and this year I have more people than I know what to do with. At my level I think the point of a tournament is a good time, and to enjoy/show off the course you are playing.

[swatso]

I'm more interested in playing in tournaments were either the bulk of the money goes to a local charity, or the bulk of the money goes to improving/building a local course.

I really don't need any more discs, nor need a trophy, and doubt I'll ever win more money than I pay in, but knowing the money is going to help someone who needs help, or goes to making the local disc golf scene better, is more of a motivating factor for playing in a tourament for me.

[DavidSauls]

No offense taken. Thank you for the input on TD'ing. I rode bulls for 20 years and that is the perspective I take on tournaments in disc golf. In bullriding, if a guy isn't one of the elite (top 100), he can still make a decent living at the amateur events. My last year riding bulls, 2006, I made a little over $40,000. I didn't go to a single pro sanctioned event that year and barely left the central plains (NE, KS, OK, SD). I can't imagine traveling across the street to an event if the winner only got a shirt and a set of rowels. A guy has to, above all, eat. You guys with lots more experience know how the tournament system goes in this sport, and I don't have the experience to even try to argue, and would love to hear all the pros and cons. It's just my personal opinion that cash payouts would be better. I like the idea of gambling on myself. If I play well, it's at the very least, a free round for me and I haven't wasted my money playing a game I can play for free.

The difference with disc golf, now and likely for a long time to come, is that in bullriding, there are lots of people who want to watch. People who will pay to watch. People who will see the Sponsor's names---and thus be worthwhile to the Sponsors to pay for thsoe people to see their names.

If---and it's a huge if---if we had outside sponsorship, it would change a lot of things.

We're much more like softball leagues or local tennis competitions or many other recreational sports. Except that in those, players or teams pay a fee just to compete and have their competition organized and use the facilities. They don't expect to get their entry fee back, perhaps a trophy if they finish first.

[kmrynders]

I think TDs should occasionally consider letting all divisions play for cash once and a while. I realize that many TDs run tourneys to scape a little cash, but playing for money instead of gear could 'change the game'.

[scarpfish]

I think TDs should occasionally consider letting all divisions play for cash once and a while. I realize that many TDs run tourneys to scape a little cash, but playing for money instead of gear could 'change the game'.
How so?

[zenbot]

god i'm such a needy little bitch.:\
I'm glad you said it first.

[kmrynders]

more people would come out to play if they could win cash instead of discs and gear. I'm an intermediate player and have more discs than I know what to do with. I'd play more tourneys and attempt to better my game if I was basically betting on myself. I think other people would feel the same way.

[zenbot]

I run our monthlies and paying out the ams in cash is quickly becoming a problem. We used to have a local vendor bring out a ton of discs for the ams to pick out for their winnings. His boss decided this wasn't profitable enough as more people opted for the open division to get cash.

Now that I've taken on the monthly duties I don't have product to pay out. Both am divisions now get cash. I don't know what everybody's PDGA rating is and I know that guys are going to start playing below their level just to win cash and eat at The Sizzler.

[billnchristy]

Start paying out soiled thongs.

[zenbot]

Start paying out soiled thongs.
Can I borrow some of yours?

[Vegan Ray]

Sorry, he buries them with the bodies.

[zenbot]

Sorry, he buries them with the bodies.
Drat and double drat.

[Beable]

I run our monthlies and paying out the ams in cash is quickly becoming a problem. We used to have a local vendor bring out a ton of discs for the ams to pick out for their winnings. His boss decided this wasn't profitable enough as more people opted for the open division to get cash.

Now that I've taken on the monthly duties I don't have product to pay out. Both am divisions now get cash. I don't know what everybody's PDGA rating is and I know that guys are going to start playing below their level just to win cash and eat at The Sizzler.

Ask the Ams what they throw and order some discs? I think that's what the guys around here do. There are three monthlies, and each of them has some supply. If an am wins, he can get plastic with his winnings or just get it credited to him toward the entry fee for some other week or annual dues or whatever.

[underpar24]

LOCATION. is the number one most important part. If it is close then i will go. other then that i will sometimes make trips farther, but only for PDGA sanctioned events.

[DavidSauls]

Paying Ams cash?
And would it draw more Ams?

Sanctioned tournaments can't do this.
And around here, sanctioned events draw more people than non-sanctioned.

We pay cash in our local, non-sanctioned weekly events.

I've paid Ams cash as TD for non-sanctioned tournaments, too. But where is the motivation for a TD to work so hard just to lose money? Or he must cut back on the total payout to make it work. (For example, if you're paying the Am winner $50 in merchandise, you might only afford to pay $35 in cash).

[okiebullgod]

The difference with disc golf, now and likely for a long time to come, is that in bullriding, there are lots of people who want to watch. People who will pay to watch. People who will see the Sponsor's names---and thus be worthwhile to the Sponsors to pay for thsoe people to see their names.

If---and it's a huge if---if we had outside sponsorship, it would change a lot of things.

We're much more like softball leagues or local tennis competitions or many other recreational sports. Except that in those, players or teams pay a fee just to compete and have their competition organized and use the facilities. They don't expect to get their entry fee back, perhaps a trophy if they finish first.

That's a good point. I also agree with what swatso said in the post above yours. The money is for the betterment of the community, parks, clubs, etc. I may have jumped the gun a bit as I've only ever encountered two types of producers, the kind that is in it to run a great event and those who are in it to make a buck. As long as the buck goes to something worthy (not the TD's bong), then it's okay with me. I may have been overly pessimistic before posting on this link. I looked over some tourney results on another site just prior to seeing this post, and for the life of me couldn't figure out where all the money went. It said $5500 total purse, and they paid out a little more than $2000. The purse constists, mostly of contestant entry fees. Where did the other $2500 go? Surely there wasn't an ace pot this big?

[DavidSauls]

Good questions.

I, too, am limited by my experience. I don't know any TDs who pocket anything, after expenses. To my knowledge, around here the "profits" go to clubs and, directly or indirectly, to courses. (Though I don't begrudge them if they make a profit, for the effort they put it, it wouldn't be much).

The payout situation you mention is curious. Is this a sanctioned tournament? There are minimum payouts, 85% at C-tier, 100% at B-tier, more at A-tier (I think). I've made the mistake on a tournament post of listing the Pro payout (cash), but not listing the Am payout (merch).

Certainly, $5500 entry fees and $2,000 payouts would raise some questions, unless it was specifically a fundraiser.

[okiebullgod]

I had to go back to that origional posting. I had to have misread it, as the pro payout only totaled $468. Also, the $5500 figure I saw must be money that they raised as it was a charity event.

[Dave242]

Certainly, $5500 entry fees and $2,000 payouts would raise some questions, unless it was specifically a fundraiser.

I am not sure what tournaments Okie is looking at, but for PDGA events, their events results do not list any Am payouts. That might be where a lot of the differential noticed here might be accounted for. TD's can put those in and they show for as long as results remain "unofficial".

I used to enter all of that in the results I would post online for all the PDGA tournaments I worked. The goal was to have an "open books" policy to help avoid skepticism/mistrust that sometimes results when questions like Okie's are raised. Additionally, I would post on a flyer at "Tournament Central" all the pertinent accounting details - total intake (sponsors and entry fees) and total expenses (administrative & payout).

[okiebullgod]

Yeah, my origional figure ($2000) included dollar amounts for AM also, which were plastic payouts. The $468 figure in my last post is what was really paid. I didn't mention what tourney this is because I didn't attend, nor am I calling anybody out. And after re-reading it, it was a charity tourney and the $5500 was money raised, not payout. Sorry for the pseudo-thread jack. I'd still like to be paid when I'm successful, but you can $hit in one hand and wish in the other to see which one fills up fastest.

[Waddly Hobbins]

To answer the question quick:

Awesome players pack: I am not a great player and I play to have fun, not to win. I still try hard, but I don't yet have the skill to place towards the top. That said, to convince me to put down some money on a competition, I'd like a nice players pack, because I'm not gunna see any of the prize money.

Other things I that draw me in:

How close it is
Which course it is at
Entry fee (lower = better)
Merch tables
Other events ( ace runs, ultimate, mini-disc golf)

[kerplunk]

Here are two of my quotes that seem to contradict eachother, so let me explain...
"It is of my opinion that if someone is able to place in the pro division, they have no business entering AM."
"I made a little over $40,000. I didn't go to a single pro sanctioned event that year and barely left the central plains (NE, KS, OK, SD)."

If I had entered top tier events against the top 100, I wouldn't have won nearly as much. Entering at my level, enabled me to be successful. Thus my idea that all divisions should pay cash.

Bagger!:thmbdown:

[okiebullgod]

How is it bagging if you play to your skill level? Actually, I've entered 4 tournaments, in the novice, and placed no higher than 5th.

[prerube]

This is my prerube .02 :):

What entices you to play in a tourney (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7489)

I found it buried back 47 pages in the forums

[billnchristy]

Real criteria for me:

Fun course tops the list...we are going to drive almost 100 miles through the mountains to play a couple tourneys at Meeks Park in Blairsville...why, it rocks, thats why.

Cool players pack...nice shirt or disc will always bring out the fiends

Cool format...doubles, team, topless...whatever, if it sounds cool it will make the list

Chance of doing well...of course I will play at my home course whenever there is a tourney, why not take home field advantage!?

[ERicJ]

This is my prerube .02 :):
What entices you to play in a tourney (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7489)
I found it buried back 47 pages in the forums
Good find. Merged threads.