Which Roc do I need?

[sidewinding]

I'm ready to try a Roc but I don't know which kind to purchase. I hear things like "flat top", "big bead", "ching roc", "11x". Does anyone know the poop on rocs or is a roc a roc?

[Donovan]

Say bro not to kill this thread, but here is a link to the ROC stuff thread (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320&highlight=rancho).

But I am sure our brother still wants personal opinions as well.

I personally like the "flat-top" (they just didn't come out of the mold with a dome) Classic Roc the best.

[dangitboy]

If you are just starting to throw the roc you may want to remember that most of them brand new are pretty stable. They take some "seasoning" or a breaking in period until they go really straight. Unless you get a dx classic roc or an Ontario roc. Otherwise I would suggest just a regular dx rancho roc until you figure out which one you like the best. I personally love the old San Marino rocs that are out of production. Once you season them they just don't change much after that. Really great plastic and mold.

[petecarp]

All of them, Rocs are creatures of beauty. i carry a dx color stamp flat top, a champion rancho, a super rancho, and champion san marino, a star ontario and a champion classic. All are wonderful discs and all fly differently thus leading me to use them in different situations and conditions. Just start with one fall in love with it and then see what others do. Everyone likes their roc and everyone like a roc a little different.

[Three Putt]

Don't let the Roc confusion get to you.

Forget the "classic Roc." It's not a Roc and should not be mentioned in connection with the actual 21.7 cm diameter Roc.

You also can't get Rocs in Star or Champ without paying big $$$. No need to pay big $$$ for a disc you are trying out.

This brings us to your two options, the DX Roc and the KC Pro Roc. Both of these discs with a regular factory hotstamp will be the Rancho mold. It's a great mold, and it's the regular production mold, so this is what you want. No need to search high and low for a custom stamped Ontario or San Marino at this point.

Just get a regular old DK Roc with the regular old Roc stamp and you will have a nice Rancho Roc. I suggest DX because you do need to "season" a Roc before that fantastic glide really comes out, and a DX Roc will beat in faster. So don't throw it once and put it away...keep on throwing it and soon enough you will find out why there are thousands of loyal Roc throwers out there.

[dangitboy]

Don't let the Roc confusion get to you.

Forget the "classic Roc." It's not a Roc and should not be mentioned in connection with the actual 21.7 cm diameter Roc.

You also can't get Rocs in Star or Champ without paying big $$$. No need to pay big $$$ for a disc you are trying out.

This brings us to your two options, the DX Roc and the KC Pro Roc. Both of these discs with a regular factory hotstamp will be the Rancho mold. It's a great mold, and it's the regular production mold, so this is what you want. No need to search high and low for a custom stamped Ontario or San Marino at this point.

Just get a regular old DK Roc with the regular old Roc stamp and you will have a nice Rancho Roc. I suggest DX because you do need to "season" a Roc before that fantastic glide really comes out, and a DX Roc will beat in faster. So don't throw it once and put it away...keep on throwing it and soon enough you will find out why there are thousands of loyal Roc throwers out there.

Agreed.

[sidewinding]

Don't let the Roc confusion get to you.

Forget the "classic Roc." It's not a Roc and should not be mentioned in connection with the actual 21.7 cm diameter Roc.

You also can't get Rocs in Star or Champ without paying big $$$. No need to pay big $$$ for a disc you are trying out.

This brings us to your two options, the DX Roc and the KC Pro Roc. Both of these discs with a regular factory hotstamp will be the Rancho mold. It's a great mold, and it's the regular production mold, so this is what you want. No need to search high and low for a custom stamped Ontario or San Marino at this point.

Just get a regular old DK Roc with the regular old Roc stamp and you will have a nice Rancho Roc. I suggest DX because you do need to "season" a Roc before that fantastic glide really comes out, and a DX Roc will beat in faster. So don't throw it once and put it away...keep on throwing it and soon enough you will find out why there are thousands of loyal Roc throwers out there.

Awesome! I had just about figured that out by reading what you wrote on the other thread. I think I understand Rocs now.

There are basically three Roc molds:

1. The original - AKA "Classic Roc" in current production - Not Reccommended.

2. The Ontario - OOP except as CFR - domier and less stable than Rancho - Not reccommended as much as Ranco.

3. The Rancho - AKA "Flat Top", "KC Pro", "Super Roc", "USDGC Roc", "Ching Roc" - Most reccommended. Best in DX for quicker breakin.

[sidewinding]

I am reposting this because it's been longer than 5 minutes so I can't edit it.

There are basically three Roc molds:

1. The original - AKA "San Marino", "Classic Roc" in current production - Not Reccommended.

2. The Ontario - OOP except as CFR - domier and less stable than Rancho - Not reccommended as much as Ranco.

3. The Rancho - AKA "Flat Top", "KC Pro", "Super Roc", "USDGC Roc", "Ching Roc" - Most reccommended. Best in DX for quicker breakin.

If I have anything incorrect someone please let me know soon before I go out and buy the wrong kind of Roc.

[blang]

I would try Ranchos first. They are the most available and if they work, it will prevent you from having to but less available discs.

a DX Ranch rock can do just about anything at some point in its beat in cycle.

[sidewinding]

I personally like the "flat-top" (they just didn't come out of the mold with a dome) Classic Roc the best.

Are you saying that the "flat top" is a mis-made "rancho" or are all "ranchos" considered to be "flat tops"?

[Rbuzz9]

so what's the Ching roc??

[dangitboy]

Are you saying that the "flat top" is a mis-made "rancho" or are all "ranchos" considered to be "flat tops"?

Most "flat top" or "Ching" rocs are so because all Ching discs had a full color stamp which was very hot and caused the top to flatten out. You can do the same thing with boiling water by pouring it over the dome of any domey roc to flatten it. This may be considered altering a disc so I would not use it or advertise your use of the method in a tourney.

[sidewinding]

so what's the Ching roc??

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Here'sa link to one http://www.primediscs.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Roc%2DPrime&cat=65.

Maybe they're just trying to be funny.

[Riley]

Flat tops aka "full color" are a little more stable then the domier dx roc or kc pro rocs. They are all Rancho rocs. Some are flat top some are domey.

[Rbuzz9]

i think i found an answer - makes sense esp after seeing the link to the Prime ChingRoc

Flying Discs
What is a 'CHING® Roc'?
In 1997 CHING® introduced 'full color' printing on golf disc plastics, exclusively on Innova's blank discs - such as the Roc. The application of heat, pressure, ink, and additives produced striking color graphics never available in the past. The combination of these elements is also capable of desirably altering the character of a golf disc, from feel to flight...which is why they became (and in some areas still are) recognized as 'CHING® Rocs', etc..

got the answer here: http://www.chingdiscgolf.com/faqs/index.php?sid=11091&lang=en&action=artikel&cat=4&id=12&artlang=en

[dangitboy]

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Here'e a link to one http://www.primediscs.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Roc%2DPrime&cat=65

Yeah it's the hot stamp process that flattens the top.

http://www.discgolfcenter.com/main_displayProduct.php?p=358

As you can see the full color stamp is a little different from traditional stamps

[sidewinding]

Here is how I currently understand it. There are basically three Roc molds:

1. The original - AKA "San Marino", "Classic Roc" in current production - Not Reccommended.

2. The Ontario - OOP except as CFR - domier and less stable than Rancho - Not reccommended as much as Ranco.

3. The Rancho - AKA current production "DX Roc", "KC Pro", "Super Roc", "USDGC Roc", - Most reccommended. Best in DX for quicker breakin.

The "Flat Top" AKA "Ching" just means it's been hot stamped which flattens the top. "Flat Tops" can be either Ontario or Rancho mold.

[Rbuzz9]

i think the classic roc is 21.2 cm (it actually has a flat top as well, and can also be referred to as a flat top to add to the confusion)

san marino 21.7

ontario 21.7

rancho 21.7

ching 21.7 (hotstamp)

[Donovan]

The fact is, I am not a Roc fanatic, at least no. I still love the Status for long straight shots.

I have no idea how a brand new Roc would be considered not tournament legal. Anyway, the Classic Roc I have is the only one that seems to throw the straightest so far, but that is probably because my others are just not beat in well yet. (Now where's a good wall to throw at? ;) )

[dangitboy]

The fact is, I am not a Roc fanatic, at least no. I still love the Status for long straight shots.

I have no idea how a brand new Roc would be considered not tournament legal. Anyway, the Classic Roc I have is the only one that seems to throw the straightest so far, but that is probably because my others are just not beat in well yet. (Now where's a good wall to throw at? ;) )

A brand new roc = legal
A brand new roc that you try to flatten by pouring boiling water on = post production disc modification (= illegal)

C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal. See sections 802.01 D, E and F.



but no one would ever know unless you opened your big mouth!;)

[Rbuzz9]

i prefer the Buzzzs over the rocs - i had a DX Rancho and didnt care for it much - at least i can understand the roc jargon now. And if you want a Roc in better plastic you have to pay through the nose. totally not worth it IMO (DGC had one for 200 bux)


and agreed on the Stratus - if thrown with lots of hyzer i can get some impressive distance with it. It's sort of underrated compared to it's Innova counterpart the stingray - i had a stingray and hated it - thought the rim was too shallow and threw with zero consistency -relegated it to roller duty only. But the X plastic Stratus feels like a dream and i can throw it well.

[Olorin]

I prefer to throw a bottom stamped DX Roc. I like the minimalist look.

[Olorin]

I just added more to the Roc body of knowledge on the other Roc thread (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10031&posted=1#post10031).

[Olorin]

Does anyone know the poop on rocs or is a roc a roc?

I also like pop rocs.

[Olorin]

I'm ready to try a Roc but I don't know which kind to purchase.

It depends on what you want the disc to do and how you throw. Even the size of your hand makes a difference. Every person is different, so there is no "one Roc fits all".

[Rbuzz9]

I prefer to throw a bottom stamped DX Roc. I like the minimalist look.

for what it's worth, i like the simple look of the bottom stamp much more than the Roc's vulture stamp.


i think for all DX discs i'd pay the extra buck for the bottom stamp over the regular DX stamps - i dont like them very much

[sidewinding]

Let's try this again. There are four Roc molds:

1. The original - "Classic Roc" in current production - Considered by many to not be a real roc. Often mistaken as a flattop roc due to it's less domey top.

2. The "San Marino" - 2nd mold - OOP except as CFR - Domier and not as stable as Rancho.

3. The "Ontario" - 3rd mold - OOP except as CFR - Not as stable as "San Marino".

4. The "Rancho" - 4th mold - AKA current production "DX Roc", "KC Pro", "Super Roc", "USDGC Roc", - Most reccommended. Best in DX for quicker breakin.

The "Flat Top" AKA "Ching" just means it's been hot stamped which flattens the top. "Flat Tops" can be either Ontario or Rancho mold and may or may not be legal.

[DirtyMittenDG]

I know nothing about rocs and I also have a question about one, I didnt want to start a new thread and have 3 roc threads so im just gonna ask it here. I found a roc a couple weeks ago at hudson mills, I have never had a roc and was never really interested, mainly because there are so many kinds and plus my "Buzzz FLX" is my go-to mid range, I was hoping someone could help me out a little with this roc, like how good is it? does it have value? is it rare? how does it compare to other rocs? Alright so the roc I found says, "Champion classic Roc", "putt & approach", and on the back it says, "ontario, california", and i'm pretty sure its a glow in the dark disc by looking at the color. Any info on this Roc? thanks

[Three Putt]

I know nothing about rocs and I also have a question about one, I didnt want to start a new thread and have 3 roc threads so im just gonna ask it here. I found a roc a couple weeks ago at hudson mills, I have never had a roc and was never really interested, mainly because there are so many kinds and plus my "Buzzz FLX" is my go-to mid range, I was hoping someone could help me out a little with this roc, like how good is it? does it have value? is it rare? how does it compare to other rocs? Alright so the roc I found says, "Champion classic Roc", "putt & approach", and on the back it says, "ontario, california", and i'm pretty sure its a glow in the dark disc by looking at the color. Any info on this Roc? thanksIt's a "Classic Roc," the 21.2 original Roc mold (which isn't really the original Roc mold. just based on the original Roc mold, by why confuse things here?) It's basically an XD with a big bead. It is not rare, although it is out of production in Champ plastic. If it is in good shape and you find somebody who throws them, you might get $10.00 for it.

[Three Putt]

Let's try this again. There are four Roc molds:

1. The original - "Classic Roc" in current production - Considered by many to not be a real roc. Often mistaken as a flattop roc due to it's less domey top.

2. The "San Marino" - 2nd mold - OOP except as CFR - Domier and not as stable as Rancho.

3. The "Ontario" - 3rd mold - OOP except as CFR - Not as stable as "San Marino".

4. The "Rancho" - 4th mold - AKA current production "DX Roc", "KC Pro", "Super Roc", "USDGC Roc", - Most reccommended. Best in DX for quicker breakin.

The "Flat Top" AKA "Ching" just means it's been hot stamped which flattens the top. "Flat Tops" can be either Ontario or Rancho mold and may or may not be legal.A Ching Roc is perfectly legal. It is sold from Innova that way. It is not a post-production modification if it is done by the manufacturer.

The reason it is NOT legal if you use the boiling water trick to do it is because you did it after it was sold, so now it is a post-production modification. It does not matter that you can get on from the manufacturer that looks the same way, not by how the rule is written.

AND...just a note on the flat top Roc, they BLOW! When they are new they are great, but as they beat in they become unpredictable squirrely little bastards. For me the whole magic of a Roc is that I can buy one new and have it fill the overstable mid slot in my bag. Given some time and some beating in, that same disc will be a great long-range straight mid. Over more time that same disc will become a predictable turnover mid. The flat tops do not do that. They are super as an overstable mid, and once they beat in they are a good stable flyer, but after that they are unpredictable junk. If you throw the flat tops, you will end up looking for an understable mid to use for that shot, because your flat-top Roc will not fill that slot.

[Donovan]

A Ching Roc is perfectly legal. It is sold from Innova that way. It is not a post-production modification if it is done by the manufacturer.

The reason it is NOT legal if you use the boiling water trick to do it is because you did it after it was sold, so now it is a post-production modification. It does not matter that you can get on from the manufacturer that looks the same way, not by how the rule is written.

AND...just a note on the flat top Roc, they BLOW! When they are new they are great, but as they beat in they become unpredictable squirrely little bastards. For me the whole magic of a Roc is that I can buy one new and have it fill the overstable mid slot in my bag. Given some time and some beating in, that same disc will be a great long-range straight mid. Over more time that same disc will become a predictable turnover mid. The flat tops do not do that. They are super as an overstable mid, and once they beat in they are a good stable flyer, but after that they are unpredictable junk. If you throw the flat tops, you will end up looking for an understable mid to use for that shot, because your flat-top Roc will not fill that slot.

Well, I guess I better get some more good use out if it, while it is still predictable. It is a sad thing, but as I can't imagine you being wrong, the future of my disc is looking rather bleak! I am glad my go to disc is really my Stratus. It is at least simple and they all seems to fly the same...so far. :o

[Three Putt]

Well, I guess I better get some more good use out if it, while it is still predictable. It is a sad thing, but as I can't imagine you being wrong, the future of my disc is looking rather bleak! I am glad my go to disc is really my Stratus. It is at least simple and they all seems to fly the same...so far. :oBut see...you are covered. You don't need your Ching Roc to beat into an understable mid if you also carry a Stratus.

The whole point of using Rocs for me is so that I don't HAVE to carry a Stratus or any other sort of discs whose uses overlap with something else I'm carrying. I'm a minimalist. My right now bag looks like this:
Three Wizards-All putts and approaches
Six Rocs-All mid-range shots. I really only throw three, but I throw them a lot so I lose them a lot. I carry three back-ups.
Three Cyclones-All control drives
Two Valkyries-All distance drives
Two EXP1's-Overstable driver, forehand and overhand shots
Sometimes I carry more like seven molds, but that about as many as I'll carry. I don't want to mess around with getting comfortable with the feel of a bunch of different discs if I can use the same disc for a variety of shots. I use Wizards and Rocs because they start out fairly overstable and beat into discs that can cover the whole spectrum of shots. I use Cyclones and Valks because they are pretty neutral-stable for my power level, so I can put some hyzer or anhyzer on them and execute different shots with them. I carry and overstable driver because, well, sometimes you just need and overstable driver. I don't need an understable driver as a beat Cyclone or Valk will do just fine.

Now, I could take the Rocs out of my bag and carry a Discraft Drone for very overstable midrange shots, a Discraft Wasp for overstable mid-range shots, a Discraft Buzzz for stable to slightly overstable midrange shots, a Discraft Comet for stable to understable midrange shots and a Discraft Meteor for understable midrange shots. There really is nothing wrong with that, as you would cover the spectrum of shots pretty well with those discs. They all feel different, so you would have to adjust your grip according to which one you use. You would have to have more practice time to get familiar with five discs as opposed to one. And sometimes you will be sitting on the tee looking at a shot trying to decide "should I use the Comet or the Meteor" and worrying more about the disc you are going to use rather than what you need to do to execute the shot. But plenty of people take that approach and carry 10-12 different molds, and there is nothing wrong with it. I just choose to do it another way, and for my way I have found that the Roc works best.

[DirtyMittenDG]

It's a "Classic Roc," the 21.2 original Roc mold (which isn't really the original Roc mold. just based on the original Roc mold, by why confuse things here?) It's basically an XD with a big bead. It is not rare, although it is out of production in Champ plastic. If it is in good shape and you find somebody who throws them, you might get $10.00 for it.

thanks!

[Donovan]

But see...you are covered. You don't need your Ching Roc to beat into an understable mid if you also carry a Stratus.

The whole point of using Rocs for me is so that I don't HAVE to carry a Stratus or any other sort of discs whose uses overlap with something else I'm carrying. I'm a minimalist. My right now bag looks like this:
Three Wizards-All putts and approaches
Six Rocs-All mid-range shots. I really only throw three, but I throw them a lot so I lose them a lot. I carry three back-ups.
Three Cyclones-All control drives
Two Valkyries-All distance drives
Two EXP1's-Overstable driver, forehand and overhand shots
Sometimes I carry more like seven molds, but that about as many as I'll carry. I don't want to mess around with getting comfortable with the feel of a bunch of different discs if I can use the same disc for a variety of shots. I use Wizards and Rocs because they start out fairly overstable and beat into discs that can cover the whole spectrum of shots. I use Cyclones and Valks because they are pretty neutral-stable for my power level, so I can put some hyzer or anhyzer on them and execute different shots with them. I carry and overstable driver because, well, sometimes you just need and overstable driver. I don't need an understable driver as a beat Cyclone or Valk will do just fine.

Now, I could take the Rocs out of my bag and carry a Discraft Drone for very overstable midrange shots, a Discraft Wasp for overstable mid-range shots, a Discraft Buzzz for stable to slightly overstable midrange shots, a Discraft Comet for stable to understable midrange shots and a Discraft Meteor for understable midrange shots. There really is nothing wrong with that, as you would cover the spectrum of shots pretty well with those discs. They all feel different, so you would have to adjust your grip according to which one you use. You would have to have more practice time to get familiar with five discs as opposed to one. And sometimes you will be sitting on the tee looking at a shot trying to decide "should I use the Comet or the Meteor" and worrying more about the disc you are going to use rather than what you need to do to execute the shot. But plenty of people take that approach and carry 10-12 different molds, and there is nothing wrong with it. I just choose to do it another way, and for my way I have found that the Roc works best.

Wow, bro. That does make me feel better. I just upped the number of discs I carry recently. I was carrying just 3 discs for a long time and am now up to 7/8. Although, like you, I have back ups in my car just in case. If I were to play a tournament , I would certainly bring my extras with me. I may have to rethink this whole thing. Although I have to tell you I think you should should start a Three-Putt's analyze your bag thread for the fun of it! I would love for you to tell me what I am missing or what I have duplicates of and probably don't need.
I have a feeling that is where I am really at. Heck even if you are not into this I think it would make a great thread for a bunch of people to throw their opinions in anyway. Look Here (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=768)

[sidewinding]

Ok...I think this is it...There are four Roc molds:

1. The original '87-'92 - "Classic Roc" in current production '95-present - Considered by many to not be a real roc. Often mistaken as a flattop roc due to it's less domey top.

2. The "San Marino" '88-'94 - A few are still produced each year for CFR program - Not as stable as Rancho.

3. The "Ontario" '94-'97 - A few are still produced each year for CFR program - Not as stable as "San Marino".

4. The "Rancho" '97-current - AKA any new "DX Roc", all "KC Pro", all "Super Roc", all "USDGC Roc", - A DX Rancho Roc is considered by many to be the best due to straight predictable flight after breakin period.

The "Flat Top" AKA "Ching" just means it's been hot stamped which flattens the top. "Flat Tops" can be any of the 4 molds and are legal as long as the manufacturer does the hot stamping. They are faster and more stable after stamping than in their original mold. Flattops tend to lose their predictablity as they become seasoned.
__________________

[sidewinding]

I started this thread because everytime I pickup a dx roc, and think about buying it, I end up putting it back, because I'm not sure if it's the one the pro's are talking about when they say "learn how to throw a roc".

Thanks for everyones help. Now I know that a classic roc it the one I need. Just kidding. Now I know that a plain old $6.00 dx roc is the one to buy.

Thanks again!

[jdawg24]

AND...just a note on the flat top Roc, they BLOW! When they are new they are great, but as they beat in they become unpredictable squirrely little bastards.

Whatever! IMO, these are the BEST type of Rocs. Overstable when new, great long distance straight as they beat in, and eventually they become very predictable turnover drivers. Very gradual beat-in process, never squirrely. Not sure what you're throwing...

[Three Putt]

AND...just a note on the flat top Roc, they BLOW! When they are new they are great, but as they beat in they become unpredictable squirrely little bastards.

Whatever! IMO, these are the BEST type of Rocs. Overstable when new, great long distance straight as they beat in, and eventually they become very predictable turnover drivers. Very gradual beat-in process, never squirrely. Not sure what you're throwing...You are right, I overstated an opinion. For me and a lot of players I have talked to, the Ching Rocs beat in squirrely. However I have talked to other players who swear by them and say they beat in great. So at best it's a toss up, and I should have presented it more objectively.

[garublador]

You are right, I overstated an opinion. For me and a lot of players I have talked to, the Ching Rocs beat in squirrely. However I have talked to other players who swear by them and say they beat in great. So at best it's a toss up, and I should have presented it more objectively.Compared to good Rocs they blow, compared to most of the other flippy midranges that are out there they're not really that bad.