Question for Tournament Directors???

[tomjulio]

Just wondering what percentages a tournament director uses to put the entry fee back into the prizes and players pack (if any) from local tournaments and/or leagues.

I have played in some now where the prize payout seemed great and some where you know most of the money went right back into the TD's pocket.

[mmyersdisc]

Its at the TD's descretion really....B tiers only need a $10 players package..sometimes people pull that out of the entry fee, some have sponsors cover that stuff and give 100% back to players....3 dollars comes out of the entry fee for PDGA per player and the rest is whatever is left...

[biscoe]

depends entirely on the amount of sponsorship involved for me. for the am event i'm running this weekend i will let them have the players package items at cost and probably mark the prizes up about halfway between wholesale and retail to cover expenses such as portable toilet and lunch (which we are providing). i just try to make sure i break even at this point.

for years i ran events with the idea that it was ok to lose a little money but i have gotten over that. it is too much work for me to pay to do it.

[tomjulio]

depends entirely on the amount of sponsorship involved for me. for the am event i'm running this weekend i will let them have the players package items at cost and probably mark the prizes up about halfway between wholesale and retail to cover expenses such as portable toilet and lunch (which we are providing). i just try to make sure i break even at this point.

for years i ran events with the idea that it was ok to lose a little money but i have gotten over that. it is too much work for me to pay to do it.

Good for you. I don't think a TD losing money in any aspect is acceptable, especially for the time and effort put in.

[craigg]

Just wondering what percentages a tournament director uses to put the entry fee back into the prizes and players pack (if any) from local tournaments and/or leagues.

I have played in some now where the prize payout seemed great and some where you know most of the money went right back into the TD's pocket.

The percent of entry fee returned (for sanctioned events) varies based on the Tier (i.e. A/B/C/X/NT). This information can be found by reviewing the PDGA's Tour Standards documents. Essentially - higher tiers are required to return 100% or more of a players entry fee. Lower tiers allow for as little as 70% to be returned (I think - that's what it used to be). The idea is that higher tiered events will have added cash, whereas lower tier events seldom see much in the way of sponsorship - and it DOES cost $$ to run events (trophies, CTP's, players packs, water, porta johns, sanctioning fees, insurance, park fees, etc.)

The amount you pay the TD IS NOT considered the starting point for this % return calculation, The PDGA takes it's per player fee off the top, and allows a host club to take a per player fee for whatever reason (series fees, club fee, it varies with the event), before the % return is calculated.

So let's say you play a local C Tier that is also part of your State overall series. Your entry fee is $30. The PDGA takes $2/player, and the club takes $2 for the series, and another $3/player to cover the costs of trophies , a porta john, and the PDGA sanctioning fee - leaving $23/player as the starting point to put towards prizes. The TD is then REQUIRED to return a minimum percentage of that $23 back to the players - if it's 70% - that's a little over $16 bucks.

The return on local leagues/monthlies/mini's? Who knows - probably as many variations as there are TD's. Just keep in mind that there is often a few bucks pulled for end of season prizes (trophies, bag tags, parties - I've seen several different scenarios)

Sorry for the long winded explanation - I hope this answers your question.

[craigg]

Here is the link to the PDGA Tour Standards

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/09TourStandardsV1-2.pdf

% return for B Tier and above is 100% -so in the scenario above the TD would be required to give back $23 of the $30 entry fee. % return for a C Tier is 85% or $19.55 of the $30 entry in the above scenario.

[Cgkdisc]

Note on page 4 of those standards the maximum management fee for the TD is indicated and not very many TDs actually keep this amount or even close to it. If someone thinks $200 is fair market value compensation, or even overpayment, for the effort required to host a B-tier, I'm guessing maybe they haven't run one. The way some TDs make a little additional money is simply product sales to those attending the event.

[tomjulio]

Great explanations. Thank you!

I agree with Cgkisc. Personally, I feel ALL money that is from the entry fees should be used as for the tournament (for all above costs) and that the TD is then capable of making money themselves with the sale of merch. Just my early stage disc golfing tourney playing opinion.

[Dave242]

In tournaments I have run and been involved in running I have always posted complete disclosure on tournament costs. Outlining income (entry fees, sponsorships, etc) as well as costs (payouts, course/park fees, insurance, PDGA fees, admin fees, amenities, players packs, etc). The goal was break-even.

It blew my mind that some people (usually a very limited but often vocal minority) would begrudge the club/TD for not plowing the cost/resale differential (profit) back into the payout even after understanding the whole picture.

[14506]

Some players are greedy. But who can blame em? The PDGA promotes the "Hey, everybody's a winner!" mentality. I have done an enormous number of organized Competitive Rec type of leagues and there is zero return on any money paid. If your lucky you got a trophy at the end of the season.

With that said, after chopping off all the fees and price of player's pack from the initial entry fees, I paid out 100% of money leftover. I tried to keep the value of the player's pack high, so you nearly got your money back in merch right up front. Then paid out money left over in merch, my rule of thumb was pay half the intermediates/ams and a third of the adv and I always kept the payout pretty flat. I'm an old school guy since the system won't change, I tried to make the payout less appealing(though fair) to try and promote players moving up.

[mashnut]

I personally have absolutely no issue with a tournament director making a small amount of money by running a tournament, and I especially don't feel they should lose money on the event. They are providing a service for people, and generally put in an enormous amount of time and effort to put on a good event.