Im stuck at 320 any pointers?

[Jungle Tim]

Hola

I have posted 3 vids on youtube of my drives. I would love it if anyone can give me some critical reviews of my tech. I have never had the luxury of meeting a pro or having any sort of advice, other that what i have seen or read online. As a result i am 100% confident that i can do much better, faster smoother etc. Im asking this as i have hit a flat spot recently, i just cant seem to throw any further on a regular basis.

Any help would really be very appreciated.

Jungle

175 Pro Destroyer - I cant really throw this thing yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28v5sHHS9P8

167 Champ Teebird - My 'Go to' driver comfortably as long as anythign else in my bag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEBl98xbPfo

177 ESP comet - Controlled midrange drive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LORV31B_IxY

[sidewinding]

I've got three surefire ways to get more distance.

1. Stay out of those Mexican whore houses - 15 feet
2. Quit being British - 20 feet
3. Add a run up - 10 to 30 feet

[tomjulio]

Hola

I have posted 3 vids on youtube of my drives. I would love it if anyone can give me some critical reviews of my tech.

Damn you're sexy.

[sidewinding]

I thought this was interesting.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11083&postcount=4

[Jungle Tim]

err as for the responses so far.......... thanks, but does anyone actually have anything helpful to say. As for that post Sidewinding, i was definalty wrong about the 330-350, much to my dissapointment.

[Ryan P.]

that is interesting sidewinding. it makes me wonder about people and their drives.

[edge3281]

I got a good laugh from this thread... too bad Jungle Tim isn't getting what he needs. I don't know enough to help you either. Sorry.

[Donovan]

Since i don't throw 350, I am no help to you either. Someone on here will probably help you out eventually.

[Geoffro]

I am by no means an expert, but will add my 2 cents:

I found two things that really increased my distance on drives. First, really reaching back to lengthen your stroke - to me on the videos it doesn't look like you are getting back far enough. Second, it just looks like you are trying to throw hard. I have found that trying to throw really hard doesn't accomplish much. Try to focus on form and follow-through, and you might get some surprising results.

Good luck!:)

[Marv Vega]

I don't throw a hell of lot further than you, my top drives (measured) are 370-380 so I'm not going for any distance records anytime soon. I'm not a pro or anything so I don't feel like some expert evaluator, I've also never videotaped myself so I have no idea how bad my form is.;)

For the most part your drive looked pretty good. A couple of things that I do that I noticed were missing from your drive are:

1. Approach less straight on and at more of an angle, you'll get more rotation and power this way. This will further involve the strong hip, leg, and core muscles for this rotation. This added instant distance to my game once I learned how to release the damn disc straight, it took awhile.

2. Try and get more distance with the second step, the one where the legs cross. Take a bigger step, this will put more weight on the back leg which will give you more potential to really shift the weight and finish hard.

3. While pushing off the back foot on the last step, really focus on pushing off hard with that back foot before following through the hit.

[PhattD]

For what it's worth when I watch the big guns at league throw it looks like they are getting more body rotation than you. And it also looks like you are starting your throwing arm forward too soon. The guys that I see throw really far look like their arm is the last thing to come through. Step with the plant foot hips and body follow which brings the shoulder and the arm stays back for a last second whip. Like the others that posted I'm no expert but you seem like a smart guy and if what I said seems stupid don't listen. :D P.S. To all the expertsout there I'd be interested to hear your tips.

[djext1]

I would advise that you take these 3 vids and post em on the forums at discgolfreview.com under the "video critique" section. There are a ton of really helpful and knowledgeable people there that would really be able to help you out. That's not a diss on this site, but I just know that the vid section there is great for helping get some pointers.

[ERicJ]

"Not an expert" and all that... but on your drives it looks like you're not looking back enough. If you don't turn your head backwards on the next to last x-step step then your upper body/shoulders aren't rotating enough.

ERic

[garublador]

One thing I noticed in the Comet video was that you weren't accelerating through the hit. You seemed to be going about the same speed before and after the hit. You need to focus your acceleration after the disc has passed your right pectoral.

On the Teebird video you should slow down and avoid all of those early steps. You're using your momentum to get your weight forward and that can make control and timing difficult. I'd recommend throwing more like the Comet video, but with the later acceleration.

I also agree that it looked like your arm was coming through a tad bit early.

I'd also guess that using a beat DX Teebird will give you more distance than the Champ.

[Jungle Tim]

Awsome, thanks everone! Ill give it a go on the weekend, and we will see! There is alot to work on, never thought of the legs as something to add power. also i am trying to throw hard, so ill try and smooth it out. and acelerate through the swing.

Im not usre i quite understand the approaching form an angle thing, is the idea that i rotate further round as my front foot are pointing away from the target?

im thinking slower runup, more spring ing hte hips,legs and sholders, and i will whip the arm though right?

thanks alot

all i need now is an innova boss!!

[Brody Cannon]

If you wanna catch up to me and start throwing 420+ you should get taller and younger. I'm 6'4" and I'm 16. I've only been playing a year so I'm guessing that's how I get my distance. :-D

Pay attention to your arm speed and the amount of snap yet get on your drives. Try to increase one or the other.

[tomjulio]

If you wanna catch up to me and start throwing 420+ you should get taller and younger. I'm 6'4" and I'm 16. I've only been playing a year so I'm guessing that's how I get my distance. :-D


I'm guessing that he would rather be throwing only 320' than still living with his parents.

[Marv Vega]

Im not usre i quite understand the approaching form an angle thing, is the idea that i rotate further round as my front foot are pointing away from the target?



Yes, approaching from an angle will require you to rotate more before releasing the shot, thus increasing your potential power. A similar thing to do that increases rotation would be to turn your back somewhat toward the target during the x-step. In a sense, approaching at an angle just facilitates this. It's also a good idea to be on the balls of your feet so your plant foot pivots easier.

[Geoffro]

I'm guessing that he would rather be throwing only 320' than still living with his parents.
Ouch.

[tomjulio]

Ouch.

I keed, I keed.

...basically cause I live in my mom's basement too.

[DiscChainBasket18]

You've got a lot of energy! From what I've heard/read/dreamed about, you should build momentum slowly & then concentrate all your energy to the moment of snap/release & then follow through with your rotation completely. If you slow/smooth down you'll also be able to get more control of your body lean/reach-back/hip, shoulder rotation, etc as posted earlier here by your keen eyed DGCR peers.

[Lewis]

If you wanna catch up to me and start throwing 420+ you should get taller and younger. I'm 6'4" and I'm 16. I've only been playing a year so I'm guessing that's how I get my distance. :-D

Pay attention to your arm speed and the amount of snap yet get on your drives. Try to increase one or the other.

I don't know about that, man. I've seen some short, old dudes throw the hell out of it. I suppose it helps to be tall and young, but these aren't the main reasons you're throwing it over 400' (if you're measuring accurately).

[Jungle Tim]

Since posting this thread, i have take your collective advice and Started throwing with a much slower shorter run up at about 45 degrees ish (very ish) to the target, i have tried to reach back and round a little more too. I was surprised to see that the little distance i lot when first trying out the changes, i recovered within about an hour of practice.

Anyway this weekend it bloody worked!! Sometimes..... i threw 350-360 once or twice (literally) on a golf line with my 167 champ teebird, and off a (rather large) hill i threw 410 ish with my sidewinder!! But i was totally stoked with those throws, i can now see that a consistent 350+ is very possible so i was seriously pumped!

Im still battling with my own coordination (and random OAT), but i would have to say that the slower run up has made the biggest difference. I have really been trying to get more body involved in the throw (more of a whip to initiate the arm), doing things a little slower has given me more time and allowed me to focus on my weight movement. Now to get consistent...

so thanks y'all!!

Massive internet hi-5's and a lot of whooping.

FYI all distances are measured via google earth, so there is plenty of error! but its the best i can do!

[colombo117]

I have made the mistake of over estimating my distance so I really do not see the big deal in what sidewinding found. I always thought I was in the 350 range but when I went to a football field I saw that really I was in the 300 range. Its easy to make this mistake beacuse alot of courses are mismarked and human judgement is flawed.

Anyway, I also think that if you were to slow down you would help yourself. The acceleration at the very end is what is key. Your run up does not have to be fast. I have found that I throw just as far and with better accuracy when I use a slow controlled run up. Your throw with the Comet was slower and it looked like that that thing sailed.

[Jimb]

Well you mentioned throwing 410' downhill. Now there's the real key. Throw down hill... No, down really big hills!!!! And while you're at it, make sure you catch a nice tailwind too. It worked for me this past weekend myself. I'd never thrown over 330'ish before and with a nice breeze on a 20' or so downhill shot I nailed a Champ Sidewinder out around 420'. I was totally blown away. Unfortunately, the hole was only 325'! Oops!!!

I figured it was safe to goof off again since you got some serious help and recommendations. And I'm going to try the bigger turn and angled approach this week myself. So thanks for asking the question. It might just help this 40 something, 5'10"er too.

And if I can make a recommendation at all... it's to keep your release level. I've tried both hyzer and anhyzer releases and at the end of the day, a level release seems to work best FOR ME.

[garublador]

And if I can make a recommendation at all... it's to keep your release level. I've tried both hyzer and anhyzer releases and at the end of the day, a level release seems to work best FOR ME.My recommendation is to be flexible on that. You'll hit some pretty serious walls if you aren't willing to learn to throw both hyzer and anhyzers well. I'm willing to bet if you do that you'll end up preferring hyzers the more your technique improves. I'd guess now you're getting the best results out of a "flat" release because you're probably actually throwing a bit anhyzer so you're guaranteeing that the discs turn a bit and that's helping with your distance. When you start throwing farther and don't need that extra D and are able to get discs up to their cruise speed you'll find hyzers much easier to control. For example, assuming a golf shot, a beat Eagle-X thrown with a hyzer will go farther and will be more predictable than a new Eagle-X thrown flat or a bit anhyzer.

Also, one thing to be careful about angled approaches is that it's more difficult to clear your hips right and get a good pivot that way.

[Jungle Tim]

Also, one thing to be careful about angled approaches is that it's more difficult to clear your hips right and get a good pivot that way.

Im not sure i follow....

As for the hyzer anhyzer flat thing, i think that about 5 degrees hyzer on release works a treat. well with my champ teebird it does!

[garublador]

Im not sure i follow....

As for the hyzer anhyzer flat thing, i think that about 5 degrees hyzer on release works a treat. well with my champ teebird it does!There's a good discusstion about it here:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9494&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[Jimb]

My recommendation is to be flexible on that. You'll hit some pretty serious walls if you aren't willing to learn to throw both hyzer and anhyzers well. I'm willing to bet if you do that you'll end up preferring hyzers the more your technique improves. I'd guess now you're getting the best results out of a "flat" release because you're probably actually throwing a bit anhyzer so you're guaranteeing that the discs turn a bit and that's helping with your distance. When you start throwing farther and don't need that extra D and are able to get discs up to their cruise speed you'll find hyzers much easier to control. For example, assuming a golf shot, a beat Eagle-X thrown with a hyzer will go farther and will be more predictable than a new Eagle-X thrown flat or a bit anhyzer.

Also, one thing to be careful about angled approaches is that it's more difficult to clear your hips right and get a good pivot that way.

Thanks for the recommendation. I have just this year started to understand the hyzer flip and also started trying an overstable disc. So with my current ability level, my best shots have been pretty flat. But I wouldn't bet against you that I'm throwing a bit anhyzer too. I'm having a little trouble being consistent with my angle of release for either my hyzer or annies. It will come, though. I've made huge strides this year on my drives and understanding how different discs really fly... ie. FL vs. Valkyrie vs. Sidewinder. Have fun everyone.

[garublador]

Thanks for the recommendation. I have just this year started to understand the hyzer flip and also started trying an overstable disc. So with my current ability level, my best shots have been pretty flat. But I wouldn't bet against you that I'm throwing a bit anhyzer too. I'm having a little trouble being consistent with my angle of release for either my hyzer or annies. It will come, though. I've made huge strides this year on my drives and understanding how different discs really fly... ie. FL vs. Valkyrie vs. Sidewinder. Have fun everyone.Don't get me wrong, I agree that a shorter flex shot with an overstable disc is a consistant shot. In fact, one time I asked what people would throw on this hole (there was only the short tee at the time, a much more straight shot):

http://www.playdg.com/courses/?s=MN&c=rosland&h=9

and a Gateway sponsored pro answered "My bread and butter, a flex shot with a E Blaze," when most people were saying they'd use putters.

I'm not saying that hyzers are the only way to get consistancy, but there are a lot of lines (including straight) that require a hyzer release for any sort of consistancy. Anything that will fly straight with a flat release will have a pretty big fade.

If you choose your discs well, hyzers are a bit more foregiving for golf shots, too. You can be a bit off either way and it won't ruin your shot. Annies are easier to get consistant distance shots with, though.

[cpaquette]

If you choose your discs well, hyzers are a bit more foregiving for golf shots, too. You can be a bit off either way and it won't ruin your shot. Annies are easier to get consistant distance shots with, though.

I agree whole heartedly, if you can learn to throw an "Annie" with a nice smooth release you will see amazing results.

It appears you have your questions answered and have experienced a considerable amount of improvement.
Congrats and keep bangin' the chains my friend...

[Midnightbiker]

Stuck at 320? I wish I had that problem. I would be happy to hit 320.:(

[treethacker]

Sad cause your hitting 320?? Really??:eek::
Ya wanna switch? I'll take your 320 over my lousy 220 any day!!:cool:

[Olorin]

I wish I could get to 320, but here's an article that might help.

Distance Secrets (http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/distancesecrets.shtml) by Dave Dunipace. I was the compiler and editor. Please let me know if it helps.

One of the tips that helped me add distance was to grip the disc harder and make it rip out of my hand.

[treethacker]

wow!that's a lot to read and made my head hurt!;)
Could I make a suggestion? Illustrations would be very very helpful when describing the grip and rip and the other points of the drive.
I am pretty sure I could get a good drive but I am not really sure what I am doing wrong to prevent it..but whatever it is I'm doing a good job.

[austinirish]

An excaliber throwing forehand with the wind. That'll get you about 350

[Hamilton]

i was stuck around 300 until i really focused on a clean release, slowed down my approach some, and practiced to get more twist and stroke on my reachback...now i'm 350-375, and if all is just right i can break 400...i still have a long way to go, but smoothness trumps brute force every time...there are pre-teens that can hit 400, so it really is more about finesse...

[Jungle Tim]

UPDATE

Im managing around 350 max with the new innova Boss forhand. If i throw it backhand all i can say is that my next shot will be taken from waaaaaaay over to the left!!

I slowed down and shortened my run up, but i felt a bit like i was plodding in, aloghout i got good controll i wasnt feel it, so now im somewhere in the middle interms of run up. The angled run up is spot on and that has helped me alot. im now getting my teebird to 330 consistently. I use the teebird as my yard stick, i cant throw anything im my bag further on a flat trajectory than my champ teebird.

[JHern]

Hola

I have posted 3 vids on youtube of my drives. I would love it if anyone can give me some critical reviews of my tech. I have never had the luxury of meeting a pro or having any sort of advice, other that what i have seen or read online. As a result i am 100% confident that i can do much better, faster smoother etc. Im asking this as i have hit a flat spot recently, i just cant seem to throw any further on a regular basis.

Any help would really be very appreciated.


Hi Tim,

I'm at the same plateau as you with my backhand drives, and your throws are very similar to ones I recorded of myself not too long ago. The answer to my problem (and your's, I think) is the following:

Your timing is off, and you're strong-arming your throws. Not really bad, but I can see it in the rhythm of your motion. Here is how I can tell:

1) Your pull through begins a tad early, before your plant foot is securely planted and the hip rotation has had a chance to get your torso motion going so as to whip your shoulders around.
2) Because your arm is going forward too early, you're arm is doing too much of the work. As your arm pulls forward faster than your shoulders, it causes the rotation of your torso to slow down, and almost (but not quite) rock back in the opposite direction as the desired twisting motion. This looks unsmooth, and is somewhat easy to detect.

If you have the right timing, setting your plant foot begins the motion of your hips, your hips will lead the torso, which slightly lead the shoulders, and the arm will follow behind in a more passive way such that your will be doing much less pulling. The arm should be used more like a whip (recall that a whip doesn't have muscles, and need not pull forward). Reserve your arm strength for the final pull through and hit, where it really matters a great deal.

And just so you know, from my present experience, this is a one step backwards for two steps forward change to make. I've changed my rhythm and timing, and I'm getting more velocity, but initially I lost a lot of accuracy and control which is taking me a little while to build back up. So in the short run, you'll lose distance and accuracy, but keep up the work and it will pay off in the long run.

[Jungle Tim]

jhearn!

Thanks dude! I tried what you said last weekend, and it worked well!

What ive been trying to teach myself is that the foot plant is the trigger. I can feel the moment the foot is planted securley and im trying to make that point the instincive explosion that whips hips sholders and THEN arm.

also i noticed that focusing on keeping hte disc close to the chest in hte pull thorugh generated a lot more spin. and that has helped me too.

ive been trying to put together all the advice fomr everyone here and thingas are getting much better. I will try and post some new vids once im comfortable with the changes. I still slip way too easily back to the form ive had for the last 2years ish!

[Jungle Tim]

jhearn!

Thanks dude! I tried what you said last weekend, and it worked well!

What ive been trying to teach myself is that the foot plant is the trigger. I can feel the moment the foot is planted securley and im trying to make that point the instincive explosion that whips hips sholders and THEN arm.

also i noticed that focusing on keeping hte disc close to the chest in hte pull thorugh generated a lot more spin. and that has helped me too.

ive been trying to put together all the advice fomr everyone here and thingas are getting much better. I will try and post some new vids once im comfortable with the changes. I still slip way too easily back to the form ive had for the last 2years ish!

[mzuleger]

this video/thread/board will teach you everything you need to get great distance:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9959

Working from the hit back will help you find all of the subtle flaws in your form.

[SimonCarr]

I watched the tee-bird throw... One thing I noticed is that you are concentrating too much on arm speed. You are accelerating your arm fastest as it moves across your chest. To get the most distance you will want to continue your acceleration through the release - which probably means starting off your motion slower, with a good reach back.

Here is an excellent video with 3 pros with different throwing styles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb7hqpMjsSg&feature=related

Notice their reach back and follow through..

[Jungle Tim]

this video/thread/board will teach you everything you need to get great distance:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9959

Working from the hit back will help you find all of the subtle flaws in your form.

This video is excellent, thanks dude!!

[Jungle Tim]

this video/thread/board will teach you everything you need to get great distance:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9959

Working from the hit back will help you find all of the subtle flaws in your form.

This video is excellent, thanks dude!!
After watching this video plenty i went out to the park with a bag of 12 driver and threw for about 1.5 hours. Best results came from teebirds and sidewinders, found that starting the pull slow and then really trying to whip it through was best. In fact according to google earth i threw 5 throws over 360ft, and 2 over 410! (flex shot boss and destroyer) (i did throw about 200 discs that day though)

anyway my arm was sore for the rest of the week, and DG on sunday was as good as it was bad. definate progress though.

Now just to put this all together.....

[Hamilton]

i have learned to to trust tight distances like that on google earth...no offense, but i've seen it be off 100 feet over a 1/4 stretch... (drag strip) so at 1320 feet, it was around 7.5% off...just FYI, could be dead on in other cases though...

[redsfan]

too get a bit more distance more rotation of the body will always help. However most people dont realize that rotation can actually end up hurting a shot more than it helps a shot. Pay attention to which direction your energy is being used. The closer the energy u use is to straight toward the basket the more linear force there is, resulting in a longer and more accurate drive.

[milow369]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nED7gcXobEo

check out this 6-7 minute video. I went down to a field and worked through these drills last week. Woke up the next morning feeling like I had been doing hard labor ;). Couple days later I was out on the course throwing with more confidence/control and my drives increased 40-50 feet at times.

I need to get back out for round II - anyway, one of the better instructional videos I've seen re: Disc Golf driving technique

[mzuleger]

This video is excellent, thanks dude!!
After watching this video plenty i went out to the park with a bag of 12 driver and threw for about 1.5 hours. Best results came from teebirds and sidewinders, found that starting the pull slow and then really trying to whip it through was best. In fact according to google earth i threw 5 throws over 360ft, and 2 over 410! (flex shot boss and destroyer) (i did throw about 200 discs that day though)

anyway my arm was sore for the rest of the week, and DG on sunday was as good as it was bad. definate progress though.

Now just to put this all together.....

No problem, glad it helped!