5 Ratings for non-cement tee pads?

[tomjulio]

Just wondering if having real nice cement tee pads should be a prerequisite for a five rating in reviews? I have seen a bunch of 5 ratings for gravel, dirt, and sand tee pads. Opinions?

I don't think personally I could give a 5 for anything other than dedicated nice cemented pads. It's quite a factor for a perfect course...unless the course just is mind boggling amazing.

[John Merhi]

Nothing boggles my mind more than people who say, "I hate concrete tees". I know at least 3 people who shy away from courses with concrete tees.

Remember, people complained about automatic transmissions when they first came out too. Some folks preferred their icebox over those new fangled refrigerator things too. Me.... I hate my cell phone, but I still carry it. And I will never, ever, use PayPal.

[sidewinding]

I agree. A course cannot be perfect without good footing.

[timg]

I prefer teeing off from a mixture of ice and grease. Anything less just doesn't present a challenge :)

Seriously though, how can you not like concrete pads? They're great assuming the size is right. I would also not give a course a 5 without concrete or some other type of permanent, quality pad.

[ERicJ]

Most people I've heard dis'ing concrete tees are complaining about how it hurts their knees and/or other joints. The other complaint is that some people just show up at a course/tourney wearing their cleats and aren't prepared with footwear for concrete.

ERic

[timg]

Cleats? That seems like it would hurt your game more than help. After a throw I normally continue to pivot on my right foot. If I had cleats on I'd probably break my ankle.

[ERicJ]

Cleats are rather common on players down in Texas.... Personally I'm not a fan, but I see 'em a lot.

ERic

[garublador]

IMO, if a course is truly a level 5 design it would take pretty bad tee pads to get me to lower the score.

If it hurts to throw on a cement tee pad you're doing something wrong or have really weak joints.

[tomjulio]

I prefer teeing off from a mixture of ice and grease.


...this may be the funniest unintentional innuendo ever posted. :-)

[valkyriefb11]

Most people I've heard dis'ing concrete tees are complaining about how it hurts their knees and/or other joints.

I can see that, but you are far more likely to twist an ankle or trip teeing off a dirt or gravel tee.

When it comes to tees, concrete or rubber are the best, gravel or dirt not as good, but Id rather have one type of tee for a whole course. I dont like a different tee material on every hole.

[Flies to the Left]

Concrete tee pads are great but so are a well maintained gravel tee pad. If fine gravel is used and it leveled out with a rake on a regular basis I think it is better than concrete. It spreads out making the tee longer and wider. NO sudden drop off at the back and sides. If the gravel is not maintained it just goes to hell like a dirt tee pad does.

It comes down to course maintenance. No maintenance, no five stars.

[taxman]

It all boils down to maintenance. Cement is easier to maintain so when you see a cement tee pad you generally see it in good repair. Other forms of tee pads especially gravel require a lot more work to maintain, especially when you get a higher volume of golfers playing on the course.

If we’re going to compare, compare apples to apples. A well maintained gravel tee pad is just as nice in my opinion as a well maintained patch of grass or rubber mat or cement tee pad.

When I rate a course lower because it has a bit of gravel left around a dirt pit that was a tee pad I’m rating that course down because of the bad maintenance not there choice in building material.


this is all just my opinion of course

[Adam Schneider]

Obviously, permanent hard-surface pads are ideal, but I can still see giving a course a "5" if everything else was near-perfect. Of course, it might depend on the weather too; hard-packed dirt makes a fine teepad when dry, not so much when wet.

Also, I've played a couple of courses that were so much about finesse (rather than distance) that a huge well-supported run-up wasn't necessary on most holes.

[magictenor1]

I prefer concrete but I don't think I would lower a rating just for non-concrete tees. It would depend on what the other tees were like. If there was a problem with the tees then maybe I would lower the rating.

[Geoffro]

Concrete tee pads are great but so are a well maintained gravel tee pad. If fine gravel is used and it leveled out with a rake on a regular basis I think it is better than concrete. It spreads out making the tee longer and wider. NO sudden drop off at the back and sides. If the gravel is not maintained it just goes to hell like a dirt tee pad does.

It comes down to course maintenance. No maintenance, no five stars.

I agree with this. I prefer the hard-packed gravel tee-pads to concrete - but it does require maintenance. It's the same thing with concrete, however, as noted above, erosion around the edges can be dangerous on the approach and follow-through.

[Olorin]

I'd never give a course a 5 if it didn't have good tees. I consider good tees to be concrete or good rubber pads. I've never seen adequate gravel pads, that's probably just the courses I've played.

[magictenor1]

Hey Olorin, I think you should have Timg revoke your Eagle status and make you a lifetime "par" member.

[WillA]

I have played on concrete tees that get very slick when wet. I stand to the side and tee off instead of using the teepad. Other than that concrete tees are fine. But I like natural tees too. The absolute worst tees I have evers een are at the course in Glasgow, Ky. They are sand so you never get solid footing. It's just crazy in my opinion.

[discinator]

I definitely prefer cement pads, but it seems like Austin has an aversion to cement. Two of the best courses in this area, Circle C and Pease Park, both have abysmal tee pads. They were probably ok for a week or so, but now after years of use, they have worn holes in the centers and many have rocks jutting out. Needless to say, I do downgrade my reviews if they don't have cement tees.

[Mando]

Obviously, permanent hard-surface pads are ideal, but I can still see giving a course a "5" if everything else was near-perfect. Of course, it might depend on the weather too; hard-packed dirt makes a fine teepad when dry, not so much when wet.

Also, I've played a couple of courses that were so much about finesse (rather than distance) that a huge well-supported run-up wasn't necessary on most holes.
I'm not even sure that concrete pads are ideal.
I can play two rounds on natural pads and have less knee soreness than one round on concrete. If you have good soil drainage (loam) and a maintenance program to match the traffic, natural pads are actually preferable for folks like me with bad knees.
I give 5's for course layout...pads,signs,bathrooms & water fountains are superfluous.

[Innovadude]

I played on crushed shingles in a frame in Arkansas, it beats crushed gravel.

[DGtourist]

I played on crushed shingles in a frame in Arkansas, it beats crushed gravel.

Hey Innovadude, do you have a picture of that? What course was it?

[tomjulio]

I played on crushed shingles in a frame in Arkansas, it beats crushed gravel.

wow. that sounds pretty cool and innovative. pics would rock on this one.

[33tango]

Anyone know how many bags of concrete it takes to make a "normal" or "average" sized concrete tee?

Found some info, but not the details I am looking for.

"You need about one cubic yard for each 12 foot by 6 foot by 4 foot tee pad. " I think they mean 4 inch.

ok so one cubic yard=27 cubic feet. One 80 pound bag on quickrete makes .60 cubic feet at 2 inches thick, so .30 at 4 inches thick. divided into 27 cubic feet means 90 bags of quikrete to make a 12 by 6 foot tee. At the cost of $3.55 each comes to $319.50 plus forms etc. times 18 holes $5751. I hope my math is horribly wrong.

[33tango]

Yeah never mind, cubic yards of concrete are much cheaper by the truckload. quikete would bankrupt you.

[discinator]

"You need about one cubic yard for each 12 foot by 6 foot by 4 foot tee pad. " I think they mean 4 inch.



How big are you guys making the pads where you are from? 12X6 is huge.

[Three Putt]

I've played a bunch of courses where there was erosion around the front of the tee, so the leading edge of the tee was sticking up in the air. When you throw and follow through, you fall off the front edge of the tee. I'd take a well-maintained dirt or gravel tee over one of those.

I really don't think that concrete tees are all that magical. Back in the day when Sioux Passage went into the ground, the baskets had one pin placement but we had three dirt tees per hole. No matter when you went to the park you could choose if you were going to throw from the Reds, Whites or Blues. So you could choose what kind of course you were going to play. Now the course has been "improved" so there is one concrete tee per hole and a bunch of pin placements. When you show up to play, you get to play the kind of course the guy with the basket keys wants you to play. I guess it's cool if you are the guy with the keys, but I preferred the old days with the dirt tees.

[Adam Schneider]

If you pare your 12'x6' tees down to 10'x4', you'll only need 55% as much material. But yeah, Quikrete's not the way to do it.

[33tango]

How big are you guys making the pads where you are from? 12X6 is huge.

That's "Tournament Size" from Innova's website.

Tournament courses may have teepads as large as 6' by 12' or larger.

If you're gonna dream, dream big. And if you're going to the trouble to do something, do it right the first time :) I was just trying to get an idea of what it might cost to put in these much ballyhooed foundations of disc launching.

[Ninja_Disc_Master]

I don't think a 5 disc rating should hinge upon the cement tee box. I have found that not all cement tee boxes are created equal! It does completely depend upon upkeep. For instance my home course is a sweet little 9 hole fun factory but is missing a cement tee on the first hole...does it take away from the course...No...some other tee boxes are cement, but cracking and are much more scary to tee off from. I've been to other courses with no cement boxes that were bad azz so it doesn't matter to me in the end. I care more about marking, playability and baskets myself. I've tee'd off from the side of a cement box they were so bad so whatever...

[ERicJ]

Back in the day when Sioux Passage went into the ground, the baskets had one pin placement but we had three dirt tees per hole. No matter when you went to the park you could choose if you were going to throw from the Reds, Whites or Blues. So you could choose what kind of course you were going to play. Now the course has been "improved" so there is one concrete tee per hole and a bunch of pin placements. When you show up to play, you get to play the kind of course the guy with the basket keys wants you to play. I guess it's cool if you are the guy with the keys, but I preferred the old days with the dirt tees.
I still like concrete tees more than other kinds, but I do agree that multiple tees are better than multiple pin positions.

ERic

[brokenfixed]

Ya know when I first started playing I was shocked that the tees were concrete, I couldnt believe they were spending money on something like that instead of using it to make the course better. I see them as a luxury and with money/funding as tight as it is now-a-days I'd much rather have an 18 hole course with cheaper tees, than a 9 hole course with perfect concrete.

But I would say that I dont see tee types defining my overall score.

Ya know those numbers that are being thrown around arent unrealistic, plus you gotta pay someone to do the labor of pouring, setting, and smoothing all that concrete. And in alot of hilly mountainous courses you cant back up a concrete truck to every location so I wouldnt be surprised if people are mixing that concrete or quikcrete with a small mixer or by hand. Thats ALOT of work, time, and money. Youre not even considering the little things like leveling the ground by digging, the cost of 2X4s to frame it, even in some cases pouring a layer of gravel down before you pour the concrete depending on the type of soil etc. to prevent it from settling wrong and cracking

[bazkitcase5]

as a person who has a decent sized run up, I am prone to slipping pretty easily if not on a good tee pad

it does not have to be concrete necessarily, but if the tee pad/teeing area is not good, then yes, I will lower the rating of the course - afterall, how can I enjoy myself if I am constantly slipping when trying to make my shot, and if you can not enjoy the course, then how can you rate it high? - as has been mentioned, there is such thing as bad concrete tee pads, which can be worse than no tee pads in some instances (concrete pads with rocks in them or that were not roughed up properly can get very slick and dangerous when wet)

[Riley]

A fellow showed up to a glow tournement a couple weeks ago wearing cleets. Ok, thats cool. But heres the thing...It had rained all day and each tee pad was concrete. I winced every time he tee'd off. He ate dirt pretty hard twice.

[magictenor1]

I still like concrete tees more than other kinds, but I do agree that multiple tees are better than multiple pin positions.

ERic I agree totally. Multiple pins make it hard to even know where the basket is. Have as many tees as you like but leave the pin alone.

[valkyriefb11]

I still like concrete tees more than other kinds, but I do agree that multiple tees are better than multiple pin positions.

ERic

I agree totally. Multiple pins make it hard to even know where the basket is. Have as many tees as you like but leave the pin alone.

Just out of curiosity, have either of you played Tyler State Park in PA? Tyler features several pin locations on each hole, but they have a block of wood with the pin positions and it is set to let you know what pin position the basket is in when you tee off. What do you think of multiple pin positions if there is a system like this in place at the course?

[ERicJ]

Just out of curiosity, have either of you played Tyler State Park in PA? Tyler features several pin locations on each hole, but they have a block of wood with the pin positions and it is set to let you know what pin position the basket is in when you tee off. What do you think of multiple pin positions if there is a system like this in place at the course?
Nope never played there.

Not sure what you mean by "block of wood". But DeLeavega does something similar with little pinwheels on the tee sign posts. Check out the pictures of signs on holes: 1, 2, 4-7, 11, 15, 16, 18, 19, or 24-26.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/gallery.php?id=35&mode=gal

That's better than nothing. But how do you know if they're correct, or if some punk kids came through and messed with all of them?

The only way I think I'd really like multiple pin positions is if they all had baskets simultaneously and you could really pick the one to which you wanted to play.

Even if there's a position indicator, as was mentioned earlier you're still at the mercy of playing just one layout on any given day. Multiple tees give you the flexibility to play different layouts all the time.

Not a big deal, not a "review con", just a preference of mine.

ERic

[valkyriefb11]

Yes, what DeLavega has is exactly what I was talking about.

That's better than nothing. But how do you know if they're correct, or if some punk kids came through and messed with all of them?
...
Even if there's a position indicator, as was mentioned earlier you're still at the mercy of playing just one layout on any given day. Multiple tees give you the flexibility to play different layouts all the time.
ERic

Suprisingly they are rarely wrong or messed up - I guess we dont have that many punk kids around here ;)
I totally understand the detractor of being only able to play one layout a day ... I guess I never really thought about it because I play Tyler at least once a week so by now Ive played every possible position for every hole ... but for a person who can only play it once or twice that would stink. Actually as I think of it ... it would really stink becuse some of the best longer pin positions are rarely placed in them.
-FB

[ERicJ]

If you like to track your scores and/or progress the randomly rotating pin assignments can be a big negative from that perspective too....

"How'd you shoot today?"

"57."

"Is that good?"

"Hmmm... I don't know. Lemme see: #4 was in the long position, #8 was in the long, but #9-11 were in the short spots, #13 was behind the tree line this time.... I guess I don't know I've probably never played that configuration before."

It'd be especially tough to track on DGCR because you have to update the course's Hole Info page to change pin positions before you record each round in your Scorebook... or manually type in each distance.

Yeah, I like multiple tees better.

ERic

[valkyriefb11]

Thats very true. Ive actually given up trying to track that in DGCR ... especially the distances/pin positions. Par is different every week ;) Id have to agree, it seems like multiple tees would be better. I like having control over the choice as opposed to being at the mercy of the key-holder.

[cpaquette]

I don't think a 5 disc rating should hinge upon the cement tee box. I have found that not all cement tee boxes are created equal! It does completely depend upon upkeep. For instance my home course is a sweet little 9 hole fun factory but is missing a cement tee on the first hole...does it take away from the course...No...some other tee boxes are cement, but cracking and are much more scary to tee off from. I've been to other courses with no cement boxes that were bad azz so it doesn't matter to me in the end. I care more about marking, playability and baskets myself. I've tee'd off from the side of a cement box they were so bad so whatever...

I agree with Ninja in that... concrete tee pads are not essential to having a nice course. Even though I do prefer them, any flat surface with clear markings as to where the tee pad is will suffice on a fair amount of holes.

My feelings are that some concrete tee pads are actually not done right, in that... there may be a 6" or more drop off the end of them which not only is dangerous, but really messes up your concentration as if you take a considerable approach, it messes with your head a little trying to focus on not falling off the tee pad opposed to a normal follow through on a level tee pad... Concrete or otherwise...

That's my 2 cents... Anyone else share a similar sentiment?

[discinator]

I agree. It's not necessary to have cement, it just seems that every course I have played that didn't have cement had horrible dirt tees with rocks jutting out and such. I really don't care what you make them out of as long as they are flat and nonslip. So I guess I should rephrase that I will lower my rating if the pads aren't nice and flat with no rocks or holes in them.

[DiscChainBasket18]

In our area we have the following tee pad types:
Dirt
Grass
Concrete with grass edge
Concrete with dirt edge
Artificial turf over crushed stone
Rubber
Some are elevated & some are sunk into the ground.
Some have a nice level edge so you can run up onto the pad & fully finish your rotation during follow through & others have a big step down edge (a couple feet, watch your step!). Still others butt up against a hard edge border so you can't follow through.
I guess I am pretty lucky to be able to throw from all different types of tee pads. If I had to choose only one it'd be a nice big, level-with-the-edge concrete pad. I personally would be hard pressed to give a 5-star rating without this feature.

[ERicJ]

Anyone know how many bags of concrete it takes to make a "normal" or "average" sized concrete tee?

Found some info, but not the details I am looking for.

"You need about one cubic yard for each 12 foot by 6 foot by 4 foot tee pad. " I think they mean 4 inch.

ok so one cubic yard=27 cubic feet. One 80 pound bag on quickrete makes .60 cubic feet at 2 inches thick, so .30 at 4 inches thick. divided into 27 cubic feet means 90 bags of quikrete to make a 12 by 6 foot tee. At the cost of $3.55 each comes to $319.50 plus forms etc. times 18 holes $5751. I hope my math is horribly wrong.

Yeah never mind, cubic yards of concrete are much cheaper by the truckload. quikete would bankrupt you.

For the record, your math was off by about 2x. You can use the calculator on Quikrete's website:
http://www.quikrete.com/Calculator/Main.asp#concrete

A 12'x6' tee needs 41 bags, and 8'x4' tee needs 18 bags. But you're correct that the Quikrete price is prohibitive for an entire course.

ERic

[PA_Disc]

Actually you are both wrong.

-2" SLAB-
12'x6'x0.17'(2" in decimal feet)=12.24CuFt/0.6(CuFt in 80# bag)= 20.4(80# bags)

-4"SLAB-
12'x6'x0.33'(4" in decimal feet)=23.76CuFt/0.6(CuFt in 80# bag)= 39.6(80# bags)

[ERicJ]

Just going by what the Quikrete website (http://www.quikrete.com/Calculator/Main.asp#concrete) says. Their spec sheet (http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/SPEC_DATA-ConcreteMix.pdf) says a bag yields "approximately" 0.6 cu ft. So maybe their calculator takes that into account.

But whatever, my point was that even with mostly correct math the Quikrete route is still really expensive.

ERic

[PA_Disc]

Just going by what the Quikrete website (http://www.quikrete.com/Calculator/Main.asp#concrete) says. Their spec sheet (http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/SPEC_DATA-ConcreteMix.pdf) says a bag yields "approximately" 0.6 cu ft. So maybe their calculator takes that into account.

But whatever, my point was that even with mostly correct math the Quikrete route is still really expensive.

ERic

That's fine I was just illustrating the correct equation. Yes its expensive. Rubber mats are a far cheaper solution and much easier to install in sensitive or difficult to reach areas.

[mndiscg]

My home course is simple and small yet has my favorite tees. They are made of paving bricks which are even with the ground. They are as smooth as concrete, wont crack like concrete would and are even with the ground so falling off isnt an issue. The course is also heavily used so the area around the tees is packed dirt so if you have a long run up you can use the dirt behind the tee.

[The Valkyrie Kid]

I'm not even sure that concrete pads are ideal.
I can play two rounds on natural pads and have less knee soreness than one round on concrete. If you have good soil drainage (loam) and a maintenance program to match the traffic, natural pads are actually preferable for folks like me with bad knees.
I give 5's for course layout...pads,signs,bathrooms & water fountains are superfluous.

I agree with you that course layout is probably what many of us start out with as a base for our ratings but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree about signs and teepads. They are a very important part of any course and there's no way I'm giving a course a 5 without good signs and pads. Bathrooms and water fountains are a nice addition but not intregal to a 5 star rating.

In my most humble opinion, of course.

[The Valkyrie Kid]

My home course is simple and small yet has my favorite tees. They are made of paving bricks which are even with the ground. They are as smooth as concrete, wont crack like concrete would and are even with the ground so falling off isnt an issue. The course is also heavily used so the area around the tees is packed dirt so if you have a long run up you can use the dirt behind the tee.

I've played a couple of courses with paving bricks. They make a great tee pad. They're easy to repair, won't crack and you can install them on those hard to get to tee off areas. I'm not sure about the cost vs. concrete. I think they should be always be a consideration. I've preached to the choir about them before.

[DiscChainBasket18]

My home course is simple and small yet has my favorite tees. They are made of paving bricks which are even with the ground. They are as smooth as concrete, wont crack like concrete would and are even with the ground so falling off isnt an issue. The course is also heavily used so the area around the tees is packed dirt so if you have a long run up you can use the dirt behind the tee.
I love that idea! I bet it looks good too. Got any pics?

[The Valkyrie Kid]

I've played a couple of courses with paving bricks. They make a great tee pad. They're easy to repair, won't crack and you can install them on those hard to get to tee off areas. I'm not sure about the cost vs. concrete. I think they should be always be a consideration. I've preached to the choir about them before.

Sorry, I don't have any pics.

[dcarpent]

I think in some areas, specifically mountain courses, concrete tee pads just don't fit the setting. Someone also mentioned how difficult it would be to put concrete tee pads on a mountain course. I personally prefer concrete tee pads, but they would just seem out of place at 10,000 ft in the middle of the forest. I also think natural signs are better on mountain courses, logs or rocks seem more fitting. In Colorado I haven't played a single mountain course with concrete tee pads, some use rubber mats, but generally poor footing is the price you pay for playing in such a dramatic setting.