There is historical accounts of Jesus' life and especially records of the lives of his disciples (other than the Gospels themselves). One of the strongest pieces of evidence for Jesus' supernatural resurrection was the transformative lives of those that 'claimed' to have seen him risen after they watched him die on the cross.

Onec Jesus was put to death on the cross ( a historical fact), his disciples fled into hiding. Probably distraught, and fearing a similar death. Not too long after all of these men, went on to courageously preach Jesus' resurrection, even unto their own death. I am a cop and I know that if eleven people planned a lie (assuming they all decided to 'pretend' to have met the risen Jesus) that once separted and threatened with torture and death, someone.....anyone....at least one of them would have recanted. Historical documents, clearly show that each of Jesus followers were murdered hundreds of miles apart in the most horrible of ways (alll documented in history), all any of them had to do was produce a body (which none of the Jewish or Roman leaders of the time could do AND they wanted to in order to crush this new growing 'cult') or publically recant their story. None did. That speaks volumes across the years of history.

A man will willigly die for what he believes to be the truth, but NO Man will willingly go to his death over a lie. And certainly not 10 or 11 men, horribly tortured and separted by hundreds of miles with no cell phones or TV, or e mail to communicate and be sure that no one else broke down and gave in. The historic record of the transformation from scared, gutless men becoming lions of faith is proof that they all saw something that changed EVERYTHING for them. What could that have been? To me that was the meeting of a physically resurrected Jesus. One they could no longer run away from, hide and deny. That is one of the reasons why today I celebrate the Easter Sunday! I have Faith that what they say they saw was real. They had more than Faith, they saw him for real and held on to that even facing a death I couldn't even imagine.

Hello everyone. Thank you for inviting me to this group to discuss what we do and do not believe.

Donovan wrote: "Plus, if you feel Jesus is god, what is the obsession with Jesus? Just explain god. At least I think you believe they are one in the same."

Donovan: Do you not understand the concept of the trinity or are you looking for specifics about just "God the father"? I’m not sure how to respond.

I'm the least qualified among us to debate these points guys because I am an emotional creature. I do however believe that the Bible is our one source of truth.

1 Peter 1:24-25
24For,
"ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS,
AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS.
THE GRASS WITHERS,
AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF,
25BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER "
And this is the word which was preached to you.

2 Peter 1:20-21

20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

It is the instruction book given to us by God on how we are to live our lives and serve him.

Psalm 119:105

105Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.

Part 2...

If you are going to try and understand God, you have to first realize that he is the creator and you are the creation. God wants us to love him and has given us every opportunity to do so. God is always looking for us to come to him. I believe that if you truly want to know who God is, he will reveal himself to you. Maybe not in a physical form, but if you truly seek him, you will know without a shadow of a doubt who he is. Too much to copy here, but this is a great summary for anyone interested in reading more.

Does it help when I add the bible versus? Do you even care or should I not bother spending my time doing the research for everyone?

Also... if you know who Jesus is(God made man, the only sinless man to ever walk the earth), it's kinda hard not to focus on him. I try to understand where everyone is coming from, but it breaks my heart that something that I accept so easily comes so hard for others. The thing that made me believe it most was a feeling(that won't sit well for the analytical ones among you...aka endorphins, etc...). I genuinely felt the Holy Spirit come into me the day I accepted Christ(and many days since). He was also with me on some of my most painful days. I have literally been carried by something greater than myself on occasions where I didn't have it in me to make it through it alone. Focusing on Jesus is important because he is "the" example we are to follow. There were tens of thousands of witnesses to his miracles. He changed the life of everyone he came in contact with. Yea, that's a good place to start if you want to know about God and I'm guessing that is why Olorin started with him.

[Quote by SlowRoll]"Does it help when I add the bible versus?"[/quote]

slowRoll,

Personally I love the Bible. It's by far my all time favorite book and I've memorized large chunks of it, but for those who don't believe it generally doesn't help. It may even turn them off. You'll see that I've used it in some of my posts, so I don't always go by this, but I'd say use it sparingly. Just quoting verses can make people feel beat over the head with the Bible, plus they'll just say, "that's just what you believe" anyway. Plus, if I'm representing them right, non-believers (purely a descriptive label, nothing pejorative implied) think that the Bible is just a lot of myths and legends so it carries no weight to them. Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes, but I don't get the beating them over the head thing. We are to cast out our nets and teach those that want to learn. Having a lengthy discussion with someone that only wants to tear you down goes against what we are told here.

Matthew 10:14
14"Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.

Just sayin... We are supposed to be messengers. We do not change the message just because it makes somebody else feel better...

I guess there's a balance. "Beating over the head" is a phrase that I've heard seekers use for negative experiences they've had. I think they especially feel this when they haven't been listened to, only preached at and not respected.

I'm just saying that we need to communicate in a way that our message is heard. The person receiving our communication has to receive the message, so I'm just trying to remove as much static as possible.

I wish that those who don't believe as we do would chime in on what they think about the Bible being used. I'm sure it varies from person to person depending on their background and experience.

Then I will be still and watch how you respond to others. Perhaps I can learn a little from watching a more mature Christian in action.

slowRoll,

The internet is so limited without tone of voice, so I'm really not sure how to take what you said. Your message could be taken several ways, depending on the tone of voice, and I have zero intuition, so I'm at a loss. But I don't want to set myself as a model, and I'm not saying that I have everything figured out. I'm not even always consistent, and I say things wrong. I hope that anyone here will free to call me out anytime I say something offensive or in an unhelpful way. I'm always up for learning how to communicate more effectively.

I don't want you to be quiet either. You asked about using the Bible, so I gave my opinion. It's only my opinion, so just do what you think is best.

P.S.- Plus I just checked your PDGA stats and you're a better disc golfer than me, so that automatically gives you more credibility.