This is why it's important to know that Mark is the oldest Gospel. Mark has no birth narrative, Mt and Lk do. So in Mk, Jesus is just John Everyman until his baptism, the moment God officially gives Jesus the nod as Son. But in Mt and Lk, with birth narratives, the baptism narrative is kind of strange considering that we're already told that Jesus is the Son of God when he was divinely born.

As a topic for another day, like the ancient Christian sect, the Marcionites, Mark is usually my go-to for most things Jesus related b/c the later Gospels have various agendas or odd time-related hiccups like the one above.


By the way, I really apologize for the back-to-back posts.

Yes…..there are lots and lots of things in the Hebrew Testament that are quite troubling as things relate to God, man and their interaction with each other.

As is mentioned in several places in the New Testament, scripture before the resurrection is to be taken as a shadow of the things to come…..a physical analogy of the spiritual reality that came with Jesus. The kingdoms and principalities back in the day were physical and they were dealt with that way. Not any more……thankfully (at least for Christians).

I am continually “putting to death” warring factions within me that are trying to take me down. There are things in my life/behavior/attitudes that are apparently as dear to me as a son that I need to find the courage to kill……sit down with me and my wife and I will be glad to fill you in on the details and she can verify as the main first hand witness!

Dave,

I just read you're analogy with the magnet.

Here's the problem. A magnet is not a single entity. You aren't cutting a single object in two or three that magically retains the properties of the original. A magnet is trillions of quadrillions of aligned dipole atoms. You are dividing a crowd. If you could join the pieces back with one turned around you would end up with a hunk of metal thats not a magnet anymore, any regular piece of iron is made of exactly the same thing, only the magnetic dipoles of the atoms aren't aligned in the same direction.
It's a new agey sounding analogy that really isn't saying anything. First provide evidence that there really is a god or jesus in the first place. Once you've done that, then and only then could you begin to talk about it's properties

which is all contradicted by Jesus himself. Matthew, sermon on the mount, Jesus states unequivocally that his coming doesn't change anything of the old laws. The Jewish laws. Matthew 5:18 states that "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". Yet many christian churches don't even include the old testament and you'd be hard presses to find a christian that knows what any messianic traditions are.

But contradictions are common among all ancient mythologies. It shows that it is all a concoction of man's imagination and not the work of a divine being. A god should at least be able to write something coherent. If it needs to be "interpreted" that alone is proof of it's human origin.

But.....was the Sermon on the Mount before or after the resurrection?

Interesting that you argue something you don't seem to have even the most basic understanding of.

And, you miss the main point on the magnet analogy. It is the energy that is more important to focus on than the magnet itself....although both are important. But even then, as I am sure you know, analogies are a helpful aid to understand a concept.....not an exact equivalent. So, as I said in the post, this analogy does indeed fall short, but it does illustrate that the concept of the Trinity is not devoid of logic as was charged.

There is plenty of evidence out there. Maybe not scientific proof......yet. But if interested, Evidence that Demands a Verdict is a good book for anyone interested in a book on the topic with decent readability.

To me personally, evolution is probably the best evidence.

Jesus supposedly said "Till heaven and earth pass", not untill my death and subsequent revival. That's generally taken by theologians as the second coming. Of course your bible study may have come up with something different, but thats the nature of interpretation without evidence.

As far as any arguments / evidence for existence go, pose one. Lets go through them. Give me one argument from your book and we'll discuss it. We can move on upon agreement.

No thank you. For a few reasons:

1) Stacking up source material to see who can get a bigger stack holds no interest to me. Nor do I have the time. There are tons of other places you can go to do that……and I suspect you probably have done that a lot already.

2) God is spirit. Science is based on measuring the observable. Spirit by definition is not measurable by scientific methods.

3) You have already displayed a pattern here of ignoring/dismissing direct questions to you from various people that would lead to the possibility of considering the existence of something bigger than you.

4) I do not see it my purpose to persuade you.

5) You dismiss things out of pocket based on your world view – your starting point that there simply is no God. You are being true to your Atheism.
The problem with that is simply and easily illustrated: A) Draw a big circle. That circle represents all knowledge there is in the universe. B) Draw a smaller circle inside that is proportional that represents all the knowledge you possess. Draw another circle if you wish around yours that represents the knowledge of all of those people who you consider good source material.
The question is: Is it possible for God to exist outside the circles within the big circle? Either the answer is "yes", or your circle is as big as the big circle.
You see, Atheism is somewhere on the continuum of nonsensical to arrogant/delusional (I wish there were a kinder sounding way I could say that clearly). It makes little sense to attempt a discussion with this sort of dogma. Agnosticism is a much more intellectually honest position.

Yes! And Jesus said he was the fulfilment of the Law. So no longer is a written moral code (a list of dos and don'ts) the Truth, but a person! A person we can understand and seek after, but also a person whose essence is paradoxically all god AND all man.

If you have a better way for a spiritual god to communicate himself to us humans, I'm sure he would be glad to hear from you.