Dave242, Wow! Brother, you have all my respect. I think what you are doing is awesome and I don't think I could find one negative thing to say. It is a pretty brilliant plan. Kudos my friend!

As far as logic... with a teenage girl, you might be right. I guess we could do one of her questions and see how that goes and then I will ask her how she feels about how it went and see where it takes us.

Well thanks. I really was not expecting (nor was I fishing for) such a positive response. I was actually bracing for criticism....and who knows, maybe it is coming from someone else. But it was nice to start the morning reading that - so thanks again.

Just curious - is your reaction to our approach something along the lines of, "a fairy tale can be a good teaching aid to help the kids visualize the abstract concepts of character, principals and morality?"

I do feel like we are doing a good job parenting and we have great kids.......BUT a plan is only as good as the execution of the plan - and I assure you we are teaching the kids plenty of "what not to do" along with any of the good stuff that gets through.

One thing I do struggle with is the whole area of "obedience". I know that it is in the Bible (as a pretty major theme) and I know that obedience is a great thing to be able to do to function in society - laws, requirements at school and at work, etc. The ability to trust others (superiors mainly/usually) that they know best is a good thing.....sometimes.

But, it seems to me that obedience is really a secondary sort of thing (respect and trust being more primary).....and forcing obedience "because I am your father/boss/teacher/commander/leader/parole officer" seems just like an expedient way of getting what you want and/or being a control freak. I admit that all too often I do snap at my kids with this sort of "because I told you so and I am your father" form of motivation.

Obedience without explanation of "why" seems to be a good way to accomplish emergency tasks (ie works well in the military). But I do not think it is a good and healthy long term motivator.

I worry that my approach will foster disrespect/questioning/arrogance....all of which are things that plague me. I don't know.....it is a tough thing for me in parenting. What are your thoughts?

This would be cool, but I would not want her at all to feel like her questions (which could be very personal to her and coming from very tender areas within) are part of some experiment with a bunch of anonymous internet freaks. I do not want to be part of anything even close to that.......and I'm sure you as a father would want to protect her from that.

I hate to trivialize it, but yeah I think that is what I mean.

I think this is what I was trying to say about kids doing the opposite. If you do get stern often, then I think you will be setting yourself up for at least one of your kids to go the opposite way you really wish they would. You probably already know which kid is the one you are the hardest on. I was a psych guy in school. Your kids are still young enough to fix this.

If you can take all your strength to be more patient at all costs to yourself, right now, with this one kid, I think you have a great shot at getting them to really follow you. You know that explaining things is the key to success. Also, I should mention that over explaining things does more damage than good. Try to be brief and to the point explain the cause and effect of the behavior. Explain the emotions and damage that it can cause the family or the person it is effecting, and then simply have them repeat it back in their words so that you know they truly got it. Then let it go completely. This is the best advice I have on this part. Short, to the point, emotional effect, and have them reiterate. This really works.

If you continue to use the I told you so, as you already know it is not the best thing, at least one will defy you with all their determined might. I wish us to be good friends for a long time, even as internet ones. I tell you this with my heart and thoughtful experience and past research.

I concur that I do not need to exploit the questions, but I do think this is the way I will go about it. Thanks so much for contributing the way you have in all of this.

We read different bibles.
1Co 7:21 Art thou called being a servant[slave]? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

Also, huge difference between Judaism and Christianity.

Both as for the question at hand, respect for giving options, but nothing says love like passing on family hatred.

It doesn't really matter what bible you are reading or how this word differ from that word or for that matter what religion you are referring too. They almost all (I say almost, as I have not read everyone out there, but have yet to find one that can be excluded from this) have their god murdering people, and telling people how to judge others not like them. SO I don't really care about what any bible says, they are all just stories written by man and there is no way to prove any of it as truth. Especially when almost every (I am guessing you are referring to some type of xtian bible) story in it came from a story or some other religion before it.

"but nothing says love like passing on family hatred" - You have lost me here. What the heck are you talking about, joking or otherwise?

Well there is nothing really in your response worth mentioning, seems your mind is made up.

Oh my mind is only made up that we should teach our kids to think for themselves and not brain wash them.

I will be glad to listen to you can defend your Noah's Ark story (as an example) to the point it convinces me that it could have happened by the hands of "any god" (as you are devout in your bible) then we can move on. But to have the discussion you must be willing to admit, it might not have happened as well. That is what an open mind is all about. Your turn.

BTW, thanks for explaining your hatred comment. Sounds like you are backtracking on being mean spirited to me.