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Question for those among us that do not believe in a creator
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Question for those among us that do not believe in a creator
"You still have never told me how the ark story could have been a real event."
Your rants really is just sounding like witch hunts now, but for sanity, lets take this prime example.
You say I never gave an answer to a question of yours about the flood, in a nutshell.
*only one problem. You never asked about the flood on this thread.
So now, you are blurring the line on different threads, your thoughts do not follow any order, and all the while, you make huge assumptions.
I raised a point:
"No, we have never, throughout the history of mankind, observed one species evolve into a completely different species."
You gave this RD quote to respond:
"This is because unlike, say, string theory where scientific opinion is genuinely divided, there is about the fact of evolution no doubt at all. Evolution is a fact, as securely established as any in science, and he who denies it betrays woeful ignorance and lack of education, which likely extends to other fields as well. Evolution is not some recondite backwater of science, ignorance of which would be pardonable. It is the stunningly simple but elegant explanation of our very existence and the existence of every living creature on the planet."
But in no place of this quote does RD ever admit to observing one species evolve into a completely different species. And this is what you present as a counter? That did not even approach the subject, much less provide something to counter the very well known fact that mankind has never observed one species evolve into a completely different species. RD has never said it is a observed event.
That's why I am not pressing things any farther.
All you want to do is hear the sound of one hand clapping.
Do you know what that means?
It means you want to make one case, one sided arguments, then clap victory.
Let's look at the flood.
As I stated in ANOTHER THREAD:
Every *inhabited (edit) continent has some form of Flood event recorded in the past.
Also, there are mollusk fossils on top of Mt. Everest.
How did they get there? My guess would be Mt. Everest, the highest point on earth, was under water at some point.
NOW, what is the 'other hand'?
As I am sure you never understood on the OTHER THREAD:
Pangaea suggests India was once on the bottom of Africa, broke off, swimming across the Indian Ocean, and slams into Asia, thus taking a point under water, aka Mt. Everest, and raising it to the point it is at now.
Now which do you find more likely?
A flood, or a swimming country?
Reference to the "other hand":
I didn't ask about the flood, I asked about the ark story. We discussed the flood already. But you evade the silly ark part of that story. Dodge all you want and misdirect all you want it doesn not matter. I will ask the question again. I did not mention the flood above, but for you to tell me how it is possible for those 8 people to do this regardless of whether the flood was global or local.
To both Donovan and Stud Muffin.
How much of the universe do we understand? Really, truly understand?
10%, 5%, or even less. Albert Einstein said even 2% is too high...
I really do not understand what the point of your "discussion" is. It's just a spitting contest. No one knows for sure. The difference is that some of us have faith in God, while others do not. Our job as followers of Christ is to spread the good news to those that have not heard and to try to be Christlike in our daily life. We testify with our daily walk. Reading the two of you going back and forth at one another about something neither of you could possibly truly understand hurts my soul. The people that are truly looking for God will find him, and likewise; the people that are looking for an argument will find one as well.
To be honest slowRoll, I already answered your, how much do we know question in another thread. I said we don't even know a pen dot's worth on a basketball. Deep down we are lucky to even exist no matter what you believe. I find that whole thought so exciting.
What really bothers me is when I hear people, like your post, not necessary you as a person, act high and mighty about your religious ways and treat us heathens with condescension. You say spread the good news, you walk the path, and so on. Like that is a noble effort. I admit in your eyes maybe it is.
But you write such condescending things. “The people that are truly looking for God will find him, and likewise; the people that are looking for an argument will find one as well.” I see that is high and mighty and trying to slight non-xtians in a subtle way. That is flat out rude. I only want to share with those who care to listen, the reality that is in front of you or for nothing else but to suggest you think for yourself and research the other side for your answers. I used to only look at Theistic scholars for my answers, but then I realized how one sided it was. Then I read the other side and realized I was being lied to and shown what I thought was proof, really wasn’t proof. They just liked to say it was proof.
I don’t care what supernatural things you believe in, but I won’t condemn you for life by telling you about what may be false in your thinking. However, if you never of told someone of Christ don’t they get a free path to heaven in your beliefs? I was taught that. So, why do you want to keep trying to find new people and tell them about your beliefs, just to condemn or put them in a situation where they have no choice in the matter? To me, that just sounds like a really mean thing to do.
"However, if you never of told someone of Christ don’t they get a free path to heaven in your beliefs?"
That isn't what the bible teaches. The only way to get to heaven is to either
A. be perfect or
B. Know somebody who is
Jesus the Way to the Father
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
If the doctor came to you tomorrow and told you that you had a horrible disease that was without a doubt going to kill you... but there was a cure that also works 100% of the time... would you reject the cure Donovan? We are told time and time agin in scripture that Jesus is the only way to heaven. This isn't elitest, condesceding, or talking down to you Donovan. You've heard the gospel and have chosen to reject it.
New International Version (NIV)
11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
When I read the above I see Jesus clearly explaining what is about to happen in his absence. These men were scared to death to go out into the world and tell of what they had seen. Even though they had seen miracles with their own eyes performed and had been granted the power to do miracles themselves through the Holy Spirit.
Even with all that, they still doubted and were afraid. Of course you and I are going to struggle with this stuff. We are reading about it all 2nd hand. But faith is what is important to God. And not just the kind of faith people have when everything is going alright. Faith that God will protect me, but even if he does not, I will still serve him. That is what is asked of us. Whatever we cling to and try to value above the Lord... that is what will be asked of us to submit unto him.
I'm sorry if you read my words as condescinding Donovan, they are not meant to be. Even as a 37 year old man, I'm still learning and trying to grow in my service to God and am often childlike in my lack of understanding of his purpose for me, and in my enthusiasm. If any of you read anything other than humility into my words, please know here that much like the apostle Paul, I feel like I am the worst sinner among us all. I am not worthy of the love that has been shown to me.
Mercy is not being given to you what you have coming... Grace is being given that which you do not deserve. I do not want what I have coming, and I doubt any of you do either. I thank God almighty for the grace he has shown to us all. We who murdered his son, curse his name, and expect him to be accountable to us...
The one that created it all doesn't owe you or I an explanation. In his infinite wisdom he has given us the 100% guarenteed way to heaven. The cure for our terminal condition. Yet we still reject it.
What fools we all are.
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