Understanding of reality:
People are the most curious species of animal and we want to think that we have all the answers. Religion has always filled in the gaps in our acquired knowledge. We now know in the 21st century that the Biblical account of history is largely false. We have reasonable, evidence-based explanations (in-progess!) for the origin of humans, life in general, the earth, and the universe without resorting to ancient tales of supernatural events. We know that disease is not caused by demons, but by microscopic organisms. We know that the earth is round and revolves around the sun. The earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 4,000-10,000 years. Thanks to two very important inventions, the microscope and telescope, we are able to understand more than ever before about our surroundings without relying on superstition: "existing beyond nature" (which, by definition, is synonymous with religion).

LOL, I was totally going to hold out on the bringing up dinosaurs when the 4000-10000 years subject came up. I wasn't sure that ever would though. It is hard for many Christians to still buy into the age of Earth being so short.

The part of this I have trouble with, is that religious people say how hokey science can be when it is contradicting one of their beliefs. But these same people are running around the internet, using mobile phones, and enjoying their cars. Science is convenience as is certain passages in the bible and their beliefs seem to be.

Yup.....Christians can be goofy with this stuff since in the first few paragraphs of the Bible (our source material) it talks about the first "days" of the earth and talks about "evening" and "morning" and "day" and "night". But only on "day" 4 does it talk about lights in the sky being used to separate day from night (and being used as a calendar).

So.....it is nuts to definitively claim that the term "day" in the context of the 6 "days" it took God to create things is a single revolution of the earth around its axis.

But it is curious that the book of Genesis account of how things developed from water and ground and light, to plant life, to animal life, to higher functioning mammals, to humans tracks what evolution also proposes. .....And this was all written thousands of years before Chucky D proposed the theory of evolution.

(There can be Earth like conditions in a planet in other solar systems, couldn't this evolution thing be catchy or did god give those bunch of misfits their own bible?) Sorry, I am in a goofy mood today.

Genesis puts fruit bearing trees on land (3rd day) before making the moon and stars (4th) day and then makes birds and fish at the same time on the 5th day and other grazing land animals on the 6th.

Birds came after grazing land animals, the moon came way before even the seas and land much less fruit trees. Fish and see creatures came way before any complex land plants, fruit trees being one of the latest, not the first.
The genesis account isn't even close. Nothing "curious" about a fairy tale being nowhere near reality.

People have invented religions to give them stories for what they didn't understand at the time.
When the earth shook, religions told of gods or demons stirring underground. Now, because of science, we understand Plate Tectonics.
When volcanoes blew up, religions blamed angry dieties. Now we understand vulcanism and geology.
When lightning and strong storms struck, again, religions "explained" them. Wrongly of course. We now know quite alot about meteorology and climatology.

Religions, ALL religions, try to claim answers to what we don't know. When science does explain them, the religions slink further back into the shadows of ignorance. As science shines the light of real knowledge on more and more, religions have fewer and fewer shadows to hide in. The most pathetic thing now is just how embarassingly ignorant religions are of what science actually knows.

Since when do religions know things? How can a set of beliefs and practices know anything? It is not pathetic or embarrassing, it just makes no sense what you are saying.

What is pathetic is that you take the less sophisticated minded's thoughts, build them up into a strawman, and delight in tearing it down. Why does it seem that you feel so threatened? It seems like you are really scared of something. What parent if they cared about their children would treat their belief in Santa or the tooth fairy like you are treating this strawman of yours?

That's a point I've been trying to express all along. Religions DON'T know anything.

But the religious are always spouting off on how they and only they, have the "truth" The religious try to bash real knowledge gleaned from science and pass off their fairytales as "revealed" knowledge Exactly how you tried to use science terms and ideas with me and I told you just how f'ed up you were. Don't try to bullshat science to a scientist.

I dare you to go into more depth with that strawman accusation. Looks like another case of "projecting" to me.

I fear nothing, but I recognize the fear of the religious. How they are so deperately trying to hang on that they've turned to try to infiltrate the public schools with their prayers (to jesus only. you can bet your a$$ on that one.) and trying to ruin science education by banning teachers from even saying the word evolution. And all this evil is inflicted on OTHER PEOPLES KIDS. Just imagine the outrage if a muslim church started pushing their religion on your kids in public school. OH THE HYPOCRISY!

Your strawman is that you are talking/writing to me but are ascribing all sorts of stuff to me that I have nothing to do with nor that I condone or promote. (Yes, it is a case of projecting. ) I do not disagree that religion has been used in divisive and destructive ways (and it will continue unfortunately for as long as humans have unkind/evil tendencies).

You write of "evil". I am assuming that you think evil is bad and the world would be a better place with less or none of it. Is that a correct assumption? Do you use your knowledge and intellect to that end? You have strong personal strengths in those areas. I mean that sincerely - I am not being sarcastic.

I just got back from a walk to raise money for research to help find a cure for cystic fibrosis. There is a wonderful little girl running around my house right now with my kids as happy as can be. It breaks my heart that this disease will most likely devastate her and her twin sister's lives (and their parents and siblings who will be left behind). And what they go through every day now is pretty rough. I pray and I hope that SCIENCE can find a cure for this evil.

If you look at the life and teachings of Jesus, how are those at odds with the goal of decreasing/removing evil from individuals' lives and from the world? This is a goal that I assume you share since you see evil and want it stopped.

Yes Dave, we agree on what we call evil. The world would be better off with less of it.

I'm fairly sure we wouldn't agree on what you'd call sin though.

What I deem as the greatest source of evil is irrationality. Truth does matter. What people believe directly influences how they behave. Rational thought produces rational behavior.

When two or more people are trying to promote conflicting religious ideas, there is nothing they can do to compromise. No way one can show another evidence. No way to prove one right and another wrong. Religion is irrational, and because it's irrational, it's has been directly responsible for the greatest examples of human attrocities and suffering throughout history.
Wars, crusades, witch burnings, and genocide of indigenous peoples. These we're all familiar with. But even more sinister are examples like Catholic missionaries in AIDS ravaged Africa. In a situation like Africa, just think of how you could possibly cause the most damage and suffering by only using words. The Catholics know how. Teach those people the religious concept of sin and punishment, and then tell them it's a sin to use condoms. 22.5 million people infected, 1 and a half million die each year. almost 15 million children total that have lost one or both parents to AIDS.

And those spreading the word of Jesus, tell them to NOT use condoms. Now tell me that's not evil.

I am glad to talk about my take on the definition of sin as well as to let you know where I sin/fail/fall short. I'll hold off on that for now except to say that I believe my failings/dysfunction have the same roots of all kinds of wickedness and pain in the world.

One thing I am interested in from your post: are there any atheist mission/relief groups that are out fighting against some of the horrible suffering in the world? I do not ask this in a combative/defensive way, but out of curiosity (and I suppose laziness since I could research it). I am aware of non-religious social justice organizations such as Oxfam and Amnesty International (my grandfather was involved in the founding of this), but I am wondering about expressly atheist organizations.

Switching gears - not having familiarity with the situation you are talking about with the spread of AIDS, I have to voice a little skepticism. If Catholics are teaching about sin and punishment, they are also preaching that extramarital sex is a sin. So, it does not really make sense to me to blame the Catholics for the Africans obeying them on the condom issue but disobeying them on the sex outside of marriage issue. There must be more to this story.